Despite the horrific last 10 years of Giants football and the sad state of the franchise, I do think this draft is a huge opportunity for this franchise to get back on the right path. While the offense is a mess across the board, the defense has some solid pieces and with the right draft picks I think it is closer to being a top 10 defense than it is to being a bottom 10 defense in the league.
My initial hope for the draft was to use the top 2 picks to draft a defensive game wrecker (EDGE, LB, maybe even Hamilton if he's top of your board) & the top OL available. The more I think about it I would like to see a QB chosen; this is assuming that the value is there after player evaluations are complete and the player isn't a reach. Here's why...
There are arguments on both sides as to whether DJ has the capability to be the guy; the one fact is that he hasn't proven to anyone that he is 100% THE GUY. He's had an atrocious supporting cast and a terrible offensive scheme to contend with; he's shown flashes but has been far too inconsistent for a guy in his 3rd year. Performance/potential aside, DJ has not proven to be durable which has to be a focus in evaluating his future. If the offensive pieces are fixed he may have a terrific 2022, or maybe not. The Giants can't go into 2023 with more uncertainty at the QB position and nobody can say for sure which DJ we'll see next year.
Drafting a QB in the 1st round gives the Giants a few things immediately
*Competition for DJ in year 1
*A plan if the Giants need to move on from DJ in 2023
*A competent backup for '22
Best case scenario: DJ has a great 2023 and the QB 1st rounder develops well enough to start in 2023. This gives the Giants multiple options; trading 1st round QB for multiple picks (next year or year after); franchising Jones (assuming 5th year option isn't exercised) and bringing back the 1st rounder, franchising Jones and trading him for picks. Any of those options results in the Giants having their expected franchise QB for the next 7-10 years with the ability to flip the other for draft capital.
Worst Case Scenario: Well let's just say you can look at most NFL teams who miss on top 10 QB's and it ain't pretty. It will set them back another 5 years and may even lead to the end of BBI.
Finding a franchise QB is the toughest thing in the NFL - if the Giants can hedge their bet on Jones and improve their odds of solidifying the QB position by drafting one in the first round I think you have to make that move.
Then you evaluate all the QB's. I don't see it with this group but they are the professionals.
The Giants have stunk for a long time. Stinking again might land them a really good QB in 2023. I know how I would treat next year but not sure the Giants go that route. I'd basically gut the team other than pieces I liked and draft two impact defensive guys in round 1 and multiple OL thereafter staying with BPA.
The concept of drafting a franchise QB needs to be rethought. Rather than waiting for the perfect QB prospect to fall in the Giants' laps they'd be better served to take shots with guys who aren't "generational" (whatever that means) AND be open to drafting a QB even if they feel they're set at the position (like they should have with Herbert).
The importance of the QB position is obvious and indisputable - so why not take as many shots at it as is practical?
Take one of Corral or Pickett. Play the guy you draft immediately. Be open to drafting another QB in 2023 if an attractive prospect falls to them regardless of how the 2022 pick performs.
The draft isn't there to plug holes, it's a talent pipeline. Take the long view here.
The concept of drafting a franchise QB needs to be rethought. Rather than waiting for the perfect QB prospect to fall in the Giants' laps they'd be better served to take shots with guys who aren't "generational" (whatever that means) AND be open to drafting a QB even if they feel they're set at the position (like they should have with Herbert).
The importance of the QB position is obvious and indisputable - so why not take as many shots at it as is practical?
Take one of Corral or Pickett. Play the guy you draft immediately. Be open to drafting another QB in 2023 if an attractive prospect falls to them regardless of how the 2022 pick performs.
The draft isn't there to plug holes, it's a talent pipeline. Take the long view here.
Terps, I wouldn't spent a top 10 pick on such a strategy. That sounds more like a 2nd-3rd round strategy.
You need to get QB right. If you have a conviction on a guy you take him. That is true this year and next year and every year after. Draft the best prospect available at your pick.
If Corral or Pickett is worth #5 overall in your evaluation you take him. If you are picking #7 next year and a QB you love is there you take him. Teams should not be afraid of competition, or trading a guy later on.
You have to get QB right. You can't pick a year and pick a guy and wait 4 years to find out you got it wrong.
He is not the only problem, but he is absolutely part of the problem.
A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
i do not think these guys are that and think the resources this year would better be served fixing the OL with the early picks and adding to the skill position group this year with some middle to late round picks. if i felt like these qbs this year were big time guys i'd say yea draft one regardless of the other talent on this team, but i don't believe they are
at some point too, you need to have an environment to allow a young qb to thrive. this team doesn't have weapons or an o-line. herbert last year had a bad line which he was able to overcome, but he had ekeler, keenan allen, and mike williams. a young qb simply can't be expected to come in and win with this team around them, so pass on these guys who i'm not in full bloom love with and build the foundation
Giants fans and front office are just so desperate for wins, they always want to take shortcuts. The Giants are going to suck in 2022 regardless of Jones/no Jones. What will kill this franchise is reaching for another non deserving top 10 QB, and then watching him suck for 3-4 more years. Take the BPA this year, take your lumps next year, tank, and get the Bama QB. That's the winning formula...but the Giants aren't smart enough to make solid long term decisions.
I'm not all in on taking a QB this year, but I'm not against it either. But man the stupid comments people make about a QB being a reach is through the roof. Another point... Sam Howell was talking about in 2020 as being the next great thing and now he is projected to go in the 2nd round. Tank for Tua. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, etc...
They believed the value was there.
I'm pretty sure most NFL teams go this route if they are in need of a QB.
Not sure there's anything new or exciting here in that approach.
The "IF" makes the entire premise silly.
They believed the value was there.
I'm pretty sure most NFL teams go this route if they are in need of a QB.
Not sure there's anything new or exciting here in that approach.
to be fair, the jones problem was 2 fold. first it was panic drafting jones. second it was not drafting over jones when a superior talent was available the next year
THe Giants should go QB in RD 1 if the value is there.
Full stop.
trading jones depends on the market for me. if you can get something of value sure, but i don't know what he'd fetch. i'd also argue jones might be better than the alternatives out there and jones is basically on a reasonable 1 year deal and can simply be viewed as a placeholder, who maybe will surprise with improved talent around him. and i'm not a jones fan
Bring Jones back and sign Mariota, healthy, I mean best man plays.
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if the player is there. I'd rather tank for Young/Stroud but if they see a real player at QB Im fine with it. My non scout fan perspective doesn't see that guy but let see what the new GM does. Just trade Jones.
trading jones depends on the market for me. if you can get something of value sure, but i don't know what he'd fetch. i'd also argue jones might be better than the alternatives out there and jones is basically on a reasonable 1 year deal and can simply be viewed as a placeholder, who maybe will surprise with improved talent around him. and i'm not a jones fan
I really think Jones deserves a shot with a different team. He will fail here next year thats guaranteed, the team is just piss poor. But Jones has shown that the team will be somewhat competitive with him at the helm. That works against us. Draft whoever you are going to draft and trade Jones.
I disagree with those who say there wont be a market for him, there will be.
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If we sit and wait for an Andrew Luck prospect we might be waiting a decade.
The concept of drafting a franchise QB needs to be rethought. Rather than waiting for the perfect QB prospect to fall in the Giants' laps they'd be better served to take shots with guys who aren't "generational" (whatever that means) AND be open to drafting a QB even if they feel they're set at the position (like they should have with Herbert).
The importance of the QB position is obvious and indisputable - so why not take as many shots at it as is practical?
Take one of Corral or Pickett. Play the guy you draft immediately. Be open to drafting another QB in 2023 if an attractive prospect falls to them regardless of how the 2022 pick performs.
The draft isn't there to plug holes, it's a talent pipeline. Take the long view here.
Terps, I wouldn't spent a top 10 pick on such a strategy. That sounds more like a 2nd-3rd round strategy.
I agree. Any rookie QB is going to get killed behind our OL so you are basically wasting a 1st Round pick on a one year QB. That is not how you manage a franchise. Josh Rosen got killed his rookie year and Arizona got nowhere near what they paid for him in return. Sam Darnold got killed for multiple years and did not net a 3rd overall pick type of return. You draft guys in 1st round because you expect them to be worth a 2nd contract. If they are not that caliber they should not be on your draft board as Round 1 talent.
What? You think the Giants won't have a high pick in 2023? Of course they will.
You know how much luck, and philosophical change they'd need to make -- [/i]and get right[/i] -- to save this sinking ship? In just ONE offseason?
Odds are they'll have a top 5 pick next year, too.
Fix the OL this year. Let Jones take the lumps until they do. Don't be in a rush to ruin some rookie QB.
Rather than planning the current draft around future drafts we should be forgetting previous drafts at the current draft.
Personally I think Corral and Pickett rate being picked in the top ten. I think they're worthy prospects. If they're both gone by our pick I wouldn't advocate picking Ridder or Willis there.
Either way this organization needs to rethink its QB policies.
With the 6th overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft, The New York Giants select Daniel Jones.
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In comment 15531371 Jim in Forest Hills said:
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if the player is there. I'd rather tank for Young/Stroud but if they see a real player at QB Im fine with it. My non scout fan perspective doesn't see that guy but let see what the new GM does. Just trade Jones.
trading jones depends on the market for me. if you can get something of value sure, but i don't know what he'd fetch. i'd also argue jones might be better than the alternatives out there and jones is basically on a reasonable 1 year deal and can simply be viewed as a placeholder, who maybe will surprise with improved talent around him. and i'm not a jones fan
I really think Jones deserves a shot with a different team. He will fail here next year thats guaranteed, the team is just piss poor. But Jones has shown that the team will be somewhat competitive with him at the helm. That works against us. Draft whoever you are going to draft and trade Jones.
I disagree with those who say there wont be a market for him, there will be.
The Giants wouldn't get more than a 5th round pick for Jones. His numbers suck and there are questions surrounding his health.
Rather than planning the current draft around future drafts we should be forgetting previous drafts at the current draft.
Personally I think Corral and Pickett rate being picked in the top ten. I think they're worthy prospects. If they're both gone by our pick I wouldn't advocate picking Ridder or Willis there.
Either way this organization needs to rethink its QB policies.
What have you seen out of Pickett to be worth a Top 10 pick? Prior to this year his numbers were Daniel Jones level. He has one great year when he is by far more experienced than his competition and that suddenly justifies a change?
Rather than planning the current draft around future drafts we should be forgetting previous drafts at the current draft.
Personally I think Corral and Pickett rate being picked in the top ten. I think they're worthy prospects. If they're both gone by our pick I wouldn't advocate picking Ridder or Willis there.
Either way this organization needs to rethink its QB policies.
This theory would set the Giants back even further. Drafting average QBs in the first round every year will give you a QB room full of expensive average QBs. Not to mention the draft capital you wasted and didn't improve the OLine, ERs, or all the other needs this roster has.
Corral is tiny, doesn't have Murray or Jackson speed, and is a better runner than thrower. There is no way in hell Corral is a top 20 pick. He's an injury waiting to happen, with no real upside, in the NFL.
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A year is an eternity in football.
With the 6th overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft, The New York Giants select Daniel Jones.
They shouldn't have drafted Jones because he wasn't all that good in college, not because of who was available the following year.
Drafting Jones shouldn't have prevented them from drafting Herbert. Drafting a QB in this draft should prevent them from drafting another in 2023 if the prospect is there.
The concept of drafting a franchise QB needs to be rethought. Rather than waiting for the perfect QB prospect to fall in the Giants' laps they'd be better served to take shots with guys who aren't "generational" (whatever that means) AND be open to drafting a QB even if they feel they're set at the position (like they should have with Herbert).
The importance of the QB position is obvious and indisputable - so why not take as many shots at it as is practical?
Take one of Corral or Pickett. Play the guy you draft immediately. Be open to drafting another QB in 2023 if an attractive prospect falls to them regardless of how the 2022 pick performs.
The draft isn't there to plug holes, it's a talent pipeline. Take the long view here.
If both are worthy of top 10 picks, why not draft both and then trade the worse of the two?
There are countless examples of that throughout the history of the NFL.
But I really don’t think he’s going to end up being a better pro QB than Daniel Jones will end up being. Just my opinion based on his skill set.
Take the highest graded players. Make the roster better. Don’t force the pick like we’ve done in the past.
And no - I don’t think Pickett or Corral are top 10 prospects.
Even with a mediocre season next year he will go down with some of the worst passing/team stats in the history of the NFL.
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If we sit and wait for an Andrew Luck prospect we might be waiting a decade.
The concept of drafting a franchise QB needs to be rethought. Rather than waiting for the perfect QB prospect to fall in the Giants' laps they'd be better served to take shots with guys who aren't "generational" (whatever that means) AND be open to drafting a QB even if they feel they're set at the position (like they should have with Herbert).
The importance of the QB position is obvious and indisputable - so why not take as many shots at it as is practical?
Take one of Corral or Pickett. Play the guy you draft immediately. Be open to drafting another QB in 2023 if an attractive prospect falls to them regardless of how the 2022 pick performs.
The draft isn't there to plug holes, it's a talent pipeline. Take the long view here.
If both are worthy of top 10 picks, why not draft both and then trade the worse of the two?
I'm not completely opposed; the only issue is that it will be tough to get a good look (and let possible trade partners get a good look) at both of them. Not completely against it though.
Academic exercise obviously; Pickett has long hair and Corral has a visible tattoo. They're probably both off the board.
Usually, those prospects are ones you are drooling over. They go high. The lower the position you pick a QB, the more you're just taking a flier on him. IF I trade down, I'm not taking a QB in round 1. No fliers.
We all know we need a new QB, but we shouldn't pick one out of desperation. Everyone always puts the "IF the team is convinced, take him" cop out. Duh. That goes for any top draft picks. Just look rationally at the quality of the prospect. Don't apply a fudge factor/grade on a curve just because we need a QB.
Go Terps is right that you shouldn't be afraid to draft a QB 2 years in a row. But you don't draft the first one thinking you might need to draft another. A top ten QB has to be one you think is going to be Mr Right, not Mr Right for now.
The Giants wouldn't get more than a 5th round pick for Jones. His numbers suck and there are questions surrounding his health.
I mean I disagree but we'll likely never know. Jones was fine with Shurmur and a working Barkley. His first pre season game, he showed he could play. Then they lost Shurmur and got this crap coaching staff. Here's a fact. Judge's coaches and staff kill QBs. Jones went downhill. Glennon played the worst game ever by a QB.
I think Jones has value, so many here say stuff like "He's a one read guy", I dont think they know what the fuck they are talking about. They dont watch all 22, just talking out of their ass. Get Jones with a good coach and a decent OL. Let's see what he can do. That aint the Giants though.
Using Rattler is a straw man. There are plenty of QBs that show excellence and continue it down the line. Like our very own Eli Manning.
And I dont think we're waiting for Luck, another straw man, We need a very good QB, one that can take a good team to the next level. Josh Allen, Herbert, they are out there. From what I've seen from Young and Stroud, both were successful in HS and now as FR are playing extremely well. You are all about being good in HS, college, etc, well these two are doing it, no?
I'm not opposed to taking a QB in 2022 but the new GM just needs that conviction that this is a plus player. Not Andrew Luck. You say its Corral and Pickett, although you said Willis awhile ago and that changed quick. Now its Pickett. Let's see what happens.
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A year is an eternity in football. A year ago Spencer Rattler was the next big thing. Now he's transferred to South Carolina.
Using Rattler is a straw man. There are plenty of QBs that show excellence and continue it down the line. Like our very own Eli Manning.
And I dont think we're waiting for Luck, another straw man, We need a very good QB, one that can take a good team to the next level. Josh Allen, Herbert, they are out there. From what I've seen from Young and Stroud, both were successful in HS and now as FR are playing extremely well. You are all about being good in HS, college, etc, well these two are doing it, no?
I'm not opposed to taking a QB in 2022 but the new GM just needs that conviction that this is a plus player. Not Andrew Luck. You say its Corral and Pickett, although you said Willis awhile ago and that changed quick. Now its Pickett. Let's see what happens.
And what if Stroud and/or Young (who doesn't impress me) aren't available when we draft next year? What if they get hurt? What if they regress? There are a million what ifs that could arise between now and the 2023 draft. You don't draw up plans under such uncertainty.
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In comment 15531412 Go Terps said:
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A year is an eternity in football. A year ago Spencer Rattler was the next big thing. Now he's transferred to South Carolina.
Using Rattler is a straw man. There are plenty of QBs that show excellence and continue it down the line. Like our very own Eli Manning.
And I dont think we're waiting for Luck, another straw man, We need a very good QB, one that can take a good team to the next level. Josh Allen, Herbert, they are out there. From what I've seen from Young and Stroud, both were successful in HS and now as FR are playing extremely well. You are all about being good in HS, college, etc, well these two are doing it, no?
I'm not opposed to taking a QB in 2022 but the new GM just needs that conviction that this is a plus player. Not Andrew Luck. You say its Corral and Pickett, although you said Willis awhile ago and that changed quick. Now its Pickett. Let's see what happens.
And what if Stroud and/or Young (who doesn't impress me) aren't available when we draft next year? What if they get hurt? What if they regress? There are a million what ifs that could arise between now and the 2023 draft. You don't draw up plans under such uncertainty.
To be real with you Terps, I don't think the Giants will play it my way (tank for Young), I think they bring back Jones and he wins them enough so they are bad but not top 2 draft bad.
As far as strategy, I (as a fan) trust what I see on the field (At some point thats what its about, you trust what you see in COrral and Pickett). I'm higher on Young than Stroud but both are terrific prospects. I think they are the top 2 picks next year based on team strength and what I've seen on the field. There is a small % of regression and catastrophic injury but thats everywhere. There is no perfect strategy.
Of course, there is no "sure thing" at any position. When the BPA advocates talk about taking BPA over Need they act like that's easier because - seemingly - the BPA is more of "sure thing". Which is asinine.
But I digress.
I'm assuming this conversation is all for naught because my guess is Jones is locked in for 2022. And Mara et al are going to ride Jones until it's even more clear Jones is not a franchise QB. They are going down with the Jones ship...
On this specific ask by the OP, there are at least five QBs in this draft more talented than Jones. So, by that criteria alone we should be looking to upgrade. I would trade one of those top ten picks and move down for other picks; and get into a draft slot more suitable for this class of QBs - say 15-30.
If we're going to talk about taking one and letting him sit behind Jones, the better discussion is do you use a 2nd round pick on Willis if he's still sitting there?
Take what the draft gives us quality wise, and try to fix the rest through FA.
Now I do think in the 2nd Rd the value and quality would be better. I could absolutely see taking Pickett, Corral, or Strong in the 2nd. That would be a dream draft, pick 2 top OL players in Rd 1 and get one of these guys in Rd 2