Pat Shurmur on Joe Judge's comments that he was told of Shurmur’s 2019 Giants that "everybody quit,” and “everybody tapped” and “stopped showing up to captain’s meetings.”
| "I obviously – that’s not an accurate assessment. But beyond that, I have no comment.” |
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You can be bad at your job and not get fired, but once you start embarrassing the franchise you need to go. Judge is becoming an embarrassment.
Beyond the fact that I think Judge is an ineffective coach, comments like this and his recent 11 minute rant are additional reasons he should be fired.
Judge keeps looking worse and worse. Mara must be kicking a lot of cans this week as it looks he will have to do some things he was not prepared to.
what does he think he's accomplishing with this. or is he just rambling aimlessly and this shit just comes out?
he's overseeing another historically terrible giants team and his offense has mailed it in, can't complete a forward pass, and he's calling out former coaches and criticizing other clubs?
amateur hour, and classless to boot.
Joe Judge pathetic.
And that 2017 team was worse than the 2003 team.
Mind boggling to me that Judge would do more than fart in the PCs. I'd be hiding under the podium never mind talking shit about the NFL world.
As somebody said, at least his teams scored touchdowns. We don't get any, except occasionally in garbage time. And even that isn't a given.
Not that a quick delivery or quick wit is always indicative that the person is a failure in waiting, but you need to do more than talk to coach at the NFL level.
That's the one thing I would have bet my life against happening prior to week 1. I truly felt this team would be decent or even just average at the very least. And if everything went badly, they'd be 7-10 or 6-11 but show fight throughout the season, it would just end badly sort of like it did under Coughlin 2014-2015.
No one has to say I told you so. We've heard it enough the last 2-3 months.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
and if you believe the scout talk he also banged the table for Deandre Baker
Judge keeps looking worse and worse. Mara must be kicking a lot of cans this week as it looks he will have to do some things he was not prepared to.
Exactly right. Shurmur is the classic good OC/bad HC but no question he is a gentleman and a professional.
But it won't actually end up as self-sabotage.
Mara will keep Judge, under the public-facing auspices of believing that he's another Belichick, he'll keep having Hanlon trot out the shill brigade to provide air cover, and we'll suffer through another year of ineptitude.
Meanwhile, anyone who's actually keeping track could have seen this coming. Mara's still on the hook for one more year of Shurmur's salary, and he's not going to pay for three HCs at the same time.
Yupppp. As it should. It was disgraceful.
When culture starts getting bandied about, it’s time to get worried.
and if you believe the scout talk he also banged the table for Deandre Baker
Everyone knows how poor the defensive performance was. Maybe they should have given the DC more talent or gotten a new DC. They forced Coughlin to change coordinators.
When culture starts getting bandied about, it’s time to get worried.
This exactly. Meanwhile in Judge’s intro presser he said the only culture that matters is a “winning culture”.
I think Judge is toast. The comments from Shurmur & Rivera today cement it. He’s now putting the organization in a bad light.
I don't have the link because it is still on live.
Basically he said. Having himself been in a similar spot before losing his job. You just don't do that. Nobody cares about all those things that Judge was talking about. Those are things that should only be spoken internally. Not to the press. It always comes down to wins and loses. That's it.
McAfee added giving a 3000 word comment to the New York media who will pick it apart was not smart.
Beckham did in 2018. Which I can't fault Shurmur for. That was the nail in the coffin for Odell's time in NY.
It isn't about, "you going to dump a premier talent like Beckham because he pissed off a below-average coach?". The answer is clearly no, and that isn't the point. Beckham showed the team, Eli, and his coach no respect doing what he did/had done. He was only thinking of himself.
Case in point, his last career play as a Giant? Business decision not recovering an onside kick vs. Bears.
How would Judge even know? It was a bush league statement by a bush league coach. FTR, Shurmur's Giants won 2 of its last 3, which is more than this clown can say.
Not that a quick delivery or quick wit is always indicative that the person is a failure in waiting, but you need to do more than talk to coach at the NFL level.
Wholeheartedly agree brother. JJ always takes the high road when referring to his players during PC's but does the opposite with other HC's. Praise in public and criticize in private.
Well, that is why they hired him!
I don't have the link because it is still on live.
Basically he said. Having himself been in a similar spot before losing his job. You just don't do that. Nobody cares about all those things that Judge was talking about. Those are things that should only be spoken internally. Not to the press. It always comes down to wins and loses. That's it.
McAfee added giving a 3000 word comment to the New York media who will pick it apart was not smart.
Judge is smart, very saavy and thats his fuck this moment. Deep down -He knew what he was doing.
Remember Coughlin walking past Mara -Same message.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
Bullshit on a shingle. They don't have the talent to win the Super Bowl, and injuries probably cost them a chance at the Playoffs too. But the talent is no where near as bad as the results. This isn't a scab team - the Giants have experienced NFL players on the field at every position - guys that have been with the team most of the year - and they can't even attempt forward passes.
Look at their OLine last week:
LT - Thomas
LG - Martin
C - Skura
RG - Hernandez
RT - Solder
That's 3/5's of your planned starting OL in place. + Skura has started several NFL games at C and Martin's been in the league for years.
Your starting RB, WR's and TE's are all on the field.
Glennon's started lots of games.
And you can't throw forward passes? The level of incompetence you're seeing goes way beyond personnel.
It is a heck of a jump going from a SC coordinator to being a HC in the biggest market. The losing, no uptick after dumping JG, injuries and the cherry on top clown picture may have broke him.
I'll never forget the look on Shurmur's face when Gettleman infamously mocked analytics. His stoic impression saying exactly what most people were thinking - "JFC, what a pompous ass this guy is. How the hell did he get this job??"
If Judge is retained imagine all the laps talk in July?
More than Shurmur, McAdoo, and the last year of Coughlin combined IIRC.
If Judge meant the last games of the 2017 season, he needed to come out and say that.
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Hes done.. He wants out and i cant blame him. Take a college job and build the resume.. The Giants are pathetic, he had no chance from day 1 here talent wise. The organization was shell of itself he rebuilt some fortitude but the talent level and injuries and covid sapped any possible potential. The cap is shitshow. A new GM will need to start all over and rebuild this team from the ground up -see you in 3 yrs thats how long it will take.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
Bullshit on a shingle. They don't have the talent to win the Super Bowl, and injuries probably cost them a chance at the Playoffs too. But the talent is no where near as bad as the results. This isn't a scab team - the Giants have experienced NFL players on the field at every position - guys that have been with the team most of the year - and they can't even attempt forward passes.
Look at their OLine last week:
LT - Thomas
LG - Martin
C - Skura
RG - Hernandez
RT - Solder
That's 3/5's of your planned starting OL in place. + Skura has started several NFL games at C and Martin's been in the league for years.
Your starting RB, WR's and TE's are all on the field.
Glennon's started lots of games.
And you can't throw forward passes? The level of incompetence you're seeing goes way beyond personnel.
Yes its a great line -that cant run block or Pass block and if there is time no WRs to throw too. but do go on
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Hes done.. He wants out and i cant blame him. Take a college job and build the resume.. The Giants are pathetic, he had no chance from day 1 here talent wise. The organization was shell of itself he rebuilt some fortitude but the talent level and injuries and covid sapped any possible potential. The cap is shitshow. A new GM will need to start all over and rebuild this team from the ground up -see you in 3 yrs thats how long it will take.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
Bullshit on a shingle. They don't have the talent to win the Super Bowl, and injuries probably cost them a chance at the Playoffs too. But the talent is no where near as bad as the results. This isn't a scab team - the Giants have experienced NFL players on the field at every position - guys that have been with the team most of the year - and they can't even attempt forward passes.
Look at their OLine last week:
LT - Thomas
LG - Martin
C - Skura
RG - Hernandez
RT - Solder
That's 3/5's of your planned starting OL in place. + Skura has started several NFL games at C and Martin's been in the league for years.
Your starting RB, WR's and TE's are all on the field.
Glennon's started lots of games.
And you can't throw forward passes? The level of incompetence you're seeing goes way beyond personnel.
Also I guess Freddie Kitchens forgot how to call an Offense -since Bakers Best season ever.
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just chimed in on the whole Judge post game diatribe (his words) on the Pat McAfee show.
I don't have the link because it is still on live.
Basically he said. Having himself been in a similar spot before losing his job. You just don't do that. Nobody cares about all those things that Judge was talking about. Those are things that should only be spoken internally. Not to the press. It always comes down to wins and loses. That's it.
McAfee added giving a 3000 word comment to the New York media who will pick it apart was not smart.
Judge is smart, very saavy and thats his fuck this moment. Deep down -He knew what he was doing.
Remember Coughlin walking past Mara -Same message.
You don't do that if you want to land somewhere else after you get canned; you play the high road.
He'll be lucky if Missisippi State would want him now. Maybe he can land at a Div III school.
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No one quit. Was a BS comment from Judge.
Beckham did in 2018. Which I can't fault Shurmur for. That was the nail in the coffin for Odell's time in NY.
It isn't about, "you going to dump a premier talent like Beckham because he pissed off a below-average coach?". The answer is clearly no, and that isn't the point. Beckham showed the team, Eli, and his coach no respect doing what he did/had done. He was only thinking of himself.
Case in point, his last career play as a Giant? Business decision not recovering an onside kick vs. Bears.
He caught and passed for a TD in that bears game they won by 3 points.
Really quit on his team. But way to miller a thread off course.
If Judge meant the last games of the 2017 season, he needed to come out and say that.
Let's the clear. The Giants the day McAdoo and Reese were fired would utterly destroy this Joe Judge team.
Good for PS.
Let JJ hang from the gallows he built.
That excuses none of what went on in Chicago but save the 3 out 5 starters thing. Hernandez is one of the very worst guards in the NFL and Solder has one game left in his career and running on fumes would be kind to describe him.
This is just a dumb take... Belichek and Saban love the guy.. Was he in over his head maybe yes -Rookies need to learn- add on non stop Injuries Covid and lousy talent finding GM and very little practice time for starters.. Cmon man
That excuses none of what went on in Chicago but save the 3 out 5 starters thing. Hernandez is one of the very worst guards in the NFL and Solder has one game left in his career and running on fumes would be kind to describe him.
Do you want to go through the handful of NFL teams that also have dogshit on half of their OL and somehow make it work?
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows you don't watch any other teams besides the Giants, but you could be a little bit more humble about it.
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He is a liar and anyone that still believes in him has been getting taken advantage of by sales people their whole life.
This is just a dumb take... Belichek and Saban love the guy.. Was he in over his head maybe yes -Rookies need to learn- add on non stop Injuries Covid and lousy talent finding GM and very little practice time for starters.. Cmon man
^ _Mustanglover
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I dare anyone to find to two OL players on any teams OL that started one of the 16 games last week that are worse players than those two.
That excuses none of what went on in Chicago but save the 3 out 5 starters thing. Hernandez is one of the very worst guards in the NFL and Solder has one game left in his career and running on fumes would be kind to describe him.
Do you want to go through the handful of NFL teams that also have dogshit on half of their OL and somehow make it work?
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows you don't watch any other teams besides the Giants, but you could be a little bit more humble about it.
Sure lets go - Bengals oh wait they got a TE and RB and a running game bc Ds cant load the box with the 3 Awesome Wrs they have - next?
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In comment 15531427 Gmen88 said:
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He is a liar and anyone that still believes in him has been getting taken advantage of by sales people their whole life.
This is just a dumb take... Belichek and Saban love the guy.. Was he in over his head maybe yes -Rookies need to learn- add on non stop Injuries Covid and lousy talent finding GM and very little practice time for starters.. Cmon man
^ _Mustanglover
Nah, had a someone defending judge in the "bbi is being unfair" thread, and it was his only active post. That's our Mustang lover lol
There is no more defending it. I wanted to like Judge, and in a lot of ways I think the front office/QB is still more to blame, but this is absurd.
This is getting to Costanza dragging the World Series trophy in the parking lot.
Hope this works. It is about 5 minutes long.
Some NSFW language.
Pagano on Judge - ( New Window )
Judge is smart, very saavy and thats his fuck this moment. Deep down -He knew what he was doing.
Remember Coughlin walking past Mara -Same message.
Yeah Tom was walking past Mara carrying his two Lombardis home. Current occupant spouting gibberish thats his message.
Even last week, they got throttled by SEA, but still put up 29 points. I get it that Judge is hamstrung by a bad roster (some of his own doing), but getting blown out week after week is simply bad coaching.
Hope this works. It is about 5 minutes long.
Some NSFW language. Pagano on Judge - ( New Window )
Great interview by Pagano.
He is spot on.
I Don't know BR, I recall some pretty brutal Press Conferences with Shurmur. I wont deny he put a better offense on the field and he seemed to help develop DJ better but beyond that they both suck. I recall Shurmur as being a sensitive prick in press conferences and Judge seems to be the opposite. Too much to say. Neither of them were/are successful. I don't want either of them......
JJ is a joke
Mcadoo won 11 games and recognized that Manning was done before anyone, despite being a terrible coach.
PS at least fielded a league average offense and got the most out of a bottom of the league starter like Jones, much like he did with Keenum and Foles.
Not sure what good you could say about Judge at the moment...he had a good opening press conference?
That excuses none of what went on in Chicago but save the 3 out 5 starters thing. Hernandez is one of the very worst guards in the NFL and Solder has one game left in his career and running on fumes would be kind to describe him.
And those were their planned starters going into the season. And they still can't throw a forward pass in week 17. You don't see a problem with that? No one's saying their the 95 Cowboys. They can't throw a forward f#cking pass. With most of their planned starting offense on the field.
Talk is cheap — until it gets expensive.
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He is a liar and anyone that still believes in him has been getting taken advantage of by sales people their whole life.
This is just a dumb take... Belichek and Saban love the guy.. Was he in over his head maybe yes -Rookies need to learn- add on non stop Injuries Covid and lousy talent finding GM and very little practice time for starters.. Cmon man
I wonder who's burner this is.
talking shit about ron rivera's team when his team is a laughing stock
not only did judge probably run his mouth enough to get fired, but he will never be employed in the NFL again. these coaches won't forget what he did.
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Hes done.. He wants out and i cant blame him. Take a college job and build the resume.. The Giants are pathetic, he had no chance from day 1 here talent wise. The organization was shell of itself he rebuilt some fortitude but the talent level and injuries and covid sapped any possible potential. The cap is shitshow. A new GM will need to start all over and rebuild this team from the ground up -see you in 3 yrs thats how long it will take.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
Bullshit on a shingle. They don't have the talent to win the Super Bowl, and injuries probably cost them a chance at the Playoffs too. But the talent is no where near as bad as the results. This isn't a scab team - the Giants have experienced NFL players on the field at every position - guys that have been with the team most of the year - and they can't even attempt forward passes.
Look at their OLine last week:
LT - Thomas
LG - Martin
C - Skura
RG - Hernandez
RT - Solder
That's 3/5's of your planned starting OL in place. + Skura has started several NFL games at C and Martin's been in the league for years.
Your starting RB, WR's and TE's are all on the field.
Glennon's started lots of games.
And you can't throw forward passes? The level of incompetence you're seeing goes way beyond personnel.
Excellent point, and this is what is so frustrating. Every team has injuries, and over the course of a season, you sometimes see a second-string QB getting into the mix. He may not put up Joe Montana numbers, but compiling -18 passing yards against the 5-10 Bears shows a seriously flawed organization.
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!
There is no more defending it. I wanted to like Judge, and in a lot of ways I think the front office/QB is still more to blame, but this is absurd.
This is getting to Costanza dragging the World Series trophy in the parking lot.
QB? Jones? How many wins do we have without him?
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In comment 15531462 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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!
There is no more defending it. I wanted to like Judge, and in a lot of ways I think the front office/QB is still more to blame, but this is absurd.
This is getting to Costanza dragging the World Series trophy in the parking lot.
QB? Jones? How many wins do we have without him?
Almost as many as with him tbh.
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In comment 15531462 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
!
There is no more defending it. I wanted to like Judge, and in a lot of ways I think the front office/QB is still more to blame, but this is absurd.
This is getting to Costanza dragging the World Series trophy in the parking lot.
QB? Jones? How many wins do we have without him?
early candidate for Post of the Day...
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I dare anyone to find to two OL players on any teams OL that started one of the 16 games last week that are worse players than those two.
That excuses none of what went on in Chicago but save the 3 out 5 starters thing. Hernandez is one of the very worst guards in the NFL and Solder has one game left in his career and running on fumes would be kind to describe him.
Do you want to go through the handful of NFL teams that also have dogshit on half of their OL and somehow make it work?
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows you don't watch any other teams besides the Giants, but you could be a little bit more humble about it.
New England managed to win two Super Bowls with Nate Solder, and in one his line mates were Bryan Stork, Ryan Wendell, Sebastian volmer and dan Connolly. He is still younger than several other starting tackles in the league. So someone can win with him.
deserves its own stickied thread. sure, the right side of the line sucks. but most of the team we expected going into the season was on the field.
the fact that we couldn't do anything shows that:
1. the players suck, this is on DG
2. no way they individually suck so bad that we can't generate 100 yards of passing against the Bears. JJ has not prepared the team this year, starting in the preseason. this is on him.
the org is broken. completely broken.
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Hes done.. He wants out and i cant blame him. Take a college job and build the resume.. The Giants are pathetic, he had no chance from day 1 here talent wise. The organization was shell of itself he rebuilt some fortitude but the talent level and injuries and covid sapped any possible potential. The cap is shitshow. A new GM will need to start all over and rebuild this team from the ground up -see you in 3 yrs thats how long it will take.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
Bullshit on a shingle. They don't have the talent to win the Super Bowl, and injuries probably cost them a chance at the Playoffs too. But the talent is no where near as bad as the results. This isn't a scab team - the Giants have experienced NFL players on the field at every position - guys that have been with the team most of the year - and they can't even attempt forward passes.
Look at their OLine last week:
LT - Thomas
LG - Martin
C - Skura
RG - Hernandez
RT - Solder
That's 3/5's of your planned starting OL in place. + Skura has started several NFL games at C and Martin's been in the league for years.
Your starting RB, WR's and TE's are all on the field.
Glennon's started lots of games.
And you can't throw forward passes? The level of incompetence you're seeing goes way beyond personnel.
Just because some of the players are experienced, it doesn't make them any good. Or even NFL material. And they had ONE WR - the rest wouldn't be starting/playing if they didn't have so many others out.
When talking about a truly awful team, there are always a few people who say "this team sucks so bad I bet Alabama can beat them". Normally, I say that's complete bullshit - no matter how bad a team is, they are still full grown adults playing against 18-22 year olds, the bad team would win by 40+ points.
Well, the product the Giants put in the field on Sunday gives me pause. NYG probably still wins, but I'd guess it'd be a lot closer than people expect.
How about if I show you the sacks/hurries/hits/time-to-throw stats for each week so you can see that while the Giants have been awful on the OL, there are several other NFL teams that also have awful OL play to contend with.
No one is excusing the OL, just contextualizing it to make sure that it's understood that many teams are dealing with shit OL play and somehow manage to still produce a functional offense.
I don't need to go player by player to qualify or disqualify NS or WH; that's irrelevant. If the pass protection metrics are in the middle of the pack relative to the league, then so should the passing stats be if the rest of the roster was built properly.
The issue is that we have a shit roster. And the same people who built the shit roster picked the shit QB and his shit skill position players.
Judge keeps looking worse and worse. Mara must be kicking a lot of cans this week as it looks he will have to do some things he was not prepared to.
More than that, he's a professional and I felt always kept it classy, well, except for the Lauletta remarks but I thought those were funny as hell.
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Hes done.. He wants out and i cant blame him. Take a college job and build the resume.. The Giants are pathetic, he had no chance from day 1 here talent wise. The organization was shell of itself he rebuilt some fortitude but the talent level and injuries and covid sapped any possible potential. The cap is shitshow. A new GM will need to start all over and rebuild this team from the ground up -see you in 3 yrs thats how long it will take.
If Mara is smart he hires Dorsey -he would be the one to turn it around the fastest bc he doesnt fuk around and wont waste time..
If Mara is not he goes with a newbie or NE linked Guy.
Bullshit on a shingle. They don't have the talent to win the Super Bowl, and injuries probably cost them a chance at the Playoffs too. But the talent is no where near as bad as the results. This isn't a scab team - the Giants have experienced NFL players on the field at every position - guys that have been with the team most of the year - and they can't even attempt forward passes.
Look at their OLine last week:
LT - Thomas
LG - Martin
C - Skura
RG - Hernandez
RT - Solder
That's 3/5's of your planned starting OL in place. + Skura has started several NFL games at C and Martin's been in the league for years.
Your starting RB, WR's and TE's are all on the field.
Glennon's started lots of games.
And you can't throw forward passes? The level of incompetence you're seeing goes way beyond personnel.
Bingo. The excuses this team makes is unbelievable and a huge reason why they continue to fail.
This coach can't even put together a team that can compete let alone win. It's remarkable they are actually considering keeping him.