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| delete @gints86life There’s been an about face in the org. Mara knows he cannot retain judge and promote Abrams, although he wants to. Instead he’ll hire an outside Gm, retain judge, and retain Abrams (who’ll be allowed to look for a GM job elsewhere if he pleases). Mara feels the heat from fans. |
Bunch of clowns.
Please just don't ask EA to lead the new GM search.
Mara may not take heat in the media but his fan base is plenty disgusted and he knows that. Most want to hear the Mara’s are out of the football side and so and so is taking over. He is not fooling anyone and the last decade proves it.
It’s insulting how much they view us all as gullible dumbasses.
Please just don't ask EA to lead the new GM search.
Agreed completely.
Idk. Maybe even GM’s need fall guys while they’re out on the town.
What a great plan.
The Maras seem like good people, but they don't strike me as the best & the brightest either.
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I guess the silver lining is that it'll be a voice outside of the organization & that '22 is a make or break it season for JJ so he falls flat on his face-as I expect-the next GM won't be saddled with JJ for just one season. Spoiler alert: I think we're going to suck next fall regardless.
Please just don't ask EA to lead the new GM search.
Agreed completely.
I don't want Ernie A. and his toupee anywhere near the next GM search.
I've never met the man, but I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed.
“Chris, are the plebes in a frenzy again? Let them have more Pepsi. Medium size.”
I knew that was garbage - if this latest post from Sean is now true...
Hes a garbage can kicking weenie.
I would almost respect the commitment to the gimmick if he just named Abrams. At least we could just conclude he's a bad owner and move forward.
The only thing worse than good or bad is half measures.
Read Pettit's bio on Giants.com if you want a laugh. They make him out to be Gil Brandt.
That's exactly it. Pat Hanlon, a VP, said Verderosa sucked at his job for years and he'd been there for 3 decades. And thought nothing of telling the world that bit of fact.
This account has been reporting that Abrams will be the GM previously.
I have my doubts Judge is returning though.
Like Eric says, “it can always get worse.”
I think I may need to flip my mental switch, from
Sports Fandom
To
Dark Humor Fan
When I follow the Giants.
Guys we are halfway to that 18 year stretch my Dad had so we have some time to correct. I’ll hire someone who goes along as “GM” but Chris you have to nail the next draft. Tim, any FA’s out of ND? Talk to Rudolph and see if he can help. We’ll pay them well. In case it does not work out with Judge I have a couple hot candidates I’ve been monitoring. The fans are are figuring it out so we have to make progress pretty soon. The beats articles aren’t having the desired impact.
As Sean mentioned, he also is "reporting" Jones will never play again.
I'm thinking they are now doing what they did with Abrams before floating this plan to gauge fan outrage. Hopefully it goes equally poorly.
Honestly the only thing I can hope for at this point that I would find realistic is if they pick a GM that is clear intends to innovate. Brings in someone other than Ty Siam, etc.
It seems like where they are at is they are so uninterested in change even the change they are asking themselves. What's the bare minimum we can get away with while still getting to maintain complete control and a semblance of a normal fan base? They are going to undershoot until they have a full fan mutiny I think
+1. Fire them all.
Retaining Judge at a minimum guarantees that the best GMs will pass on the Giants. We desperately need the best talent evaluator we can get after 10 years of mostly horrendous player personnel decisions.
I'd fire him too. Clean slate for the new GM.
Whomever the GM is is going to be one voice in a committee.
2015 interview regarding headhunter searches - ( New Window )
Fire Judge. The guy's a buffoon.
Mara may not take heat in the media but his fan base is plenty disgusted and he knows that. Most want to hear the Mara’s are out of the football side and so and so is taking over. He is not fooling anyone and the last decade proves it.
It'll be a fake outsider like Scott Pioli then.
Fire Judge. The guy's a buffoon.
And Jones had a rookie season that could have been built on.
He’s hedging his bet that there are more dumb ass fans than knowledgeable fans. As long as there are more dumb ones…. He will do half measures and band aid this gaping wound…
That’s why no one should go to this last game. Don’t sell your ticket… just leave an empty seat. That will get Maras attention
-The day he was introduced, he calls out that it was the most impressive interview he’s been a part of.
-He says the day he was introduced, he has the responsibility to be more patient this time around.
-The general consensus around Judge was VERY optimistic after the first year despite being 6-10. Fans mostly loved him. Go back to BBI last winter/spring - the talk was giving Judge MORE influence.
-I don’t doubt that he had influence in the draft room when it came to trading down multiple times.
-Mara allowed Judge to go over budget for his staff.
-It was just last July he was on the coaches podcast with Sean McVay and he was thought highly of.
Fast forward to January 2022 and everyone wants him fired. I get that this is a tough call for Mara, he has to be floored it has turned out this way. Most of BBI would be too.
Daniel Snyder says hi.
What would make me feel better is knowing his thoughts on DJ, SB to start. What draft selections was he in favor of. What was his involvement in FA. What his plan for staff adjustments on offense? Mara would know these answers and that should be considered.
The biggest issue I see it is very rare to have two years with negative results trending the wrong way and recovering to big success. Vermeil is the only one I can think of.
But I don’t see how the 22 Giants will fit the script and allow Judge to gain some momentum. Especially because he looks like he’s melting down. I think Sean is right about Matt Patricia being the right comp.
I tend to agree with this. I also think Gettleman was making the calls in 2018 & 2019 primarily, and he probably has lost power recently.
But the man seems genuinely unstable and à certifiable liar. He embarrasses himself and the organization every time he opens his mouth. Not acceptable
But the man seems genuinely unstable and à certifiable liar. He embarrasses himself and the organization every time he opens his mouth. Not acceptable
Oh I agree. I just have to think Mara has to be absolutely stunned with these developments.
I really have no hope for this franchise right now.
Sean made good points of what Mara may be thinking. I was pointing out how difficult it is from a historical perspective and some other considerations.
Evidently trial balloons are being launched all over. So get on board and start hammering away.
I would edit your statement by one word - remove "new" add "quality".
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I've never met the man, but I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed.
He is a smart man who fell victim to groupthink. And the worst part is he doesn't know that he is part of a groupthink.
No typo. Mara wants to keep Judge and promote Abrams to the GM position but he can't do the latter. So Judge stays, Abrams remain in the same position and an outside GM is hired.
Lol. Figured his first tweet would be bigger news.
Something really wrong with the minds of the owners. They must be delusional if they believe the fans have not figured out they are the problem.
But the man seems genuinely unstable and à certifiable liar. He embarrasses himself and the organization every time he opens his mouth. Not acceptable
IDK. The on field product is worse than what McAdoo (before his mid season firing) or Shurmur was producing at this point. While that rant was really problematic, it’s the results that are the issue. Even if I grant the excuse that Gettleman’s roster is the biggest problem, Judge has done an abominable job in the things he’s completely in control of.
As for Mara, he seems to want to correct old mistakes by making a new mistake. I don’t think retaining Judge for one year is quite the hindrance to finding a new GM that others do, but why make any decisions before starting the process? It reeks of not learning any lessons from this entire debacle.
He'll tell the new guy how he feels, but give him the authority to do anything the new hire wants.
He'll tell the new guy how he feels, but give him the authority to do anything the new hire wants.
I tend to agree, or at least hope this is how it plays out. Schefter essentially said the same thing on Ranaans podcast.
Vacchiano mentioned how it may be difficult to hire a new GM and then try to hire a new HC after that, just due to the logistics of it. Which some others have mentioned here.
Then, compound his mistake by telling the next GM ..
"hey, I want you to come in here and run things, BUT you need to keep the coach. Dont worry, if the team does not improve, we will keep you beyond your expiration date because it was our decision to select your coach for you."
Fire Judge. The guy's a buffoon.
agreed. he's horrific. just talk with no actual plan or identity. just a horrible phony bullshit lying loser. Shurmur's team won 2 of 3 to end season and Jones looked like a top 10 QB. His regression is squarely on Judge and his pathetic staff.
And a threat to outdo 64-80.
I could be wrong.
Nah!
The 1970 Giants had maybe 6-7 coaches.
“Well the standard ones you want in a GM. Bootlicking, rubber stamping, vague expertise without much demonstrated results. Willingness to be scape goated or steamrolled completely. I’m the total package.”
Yeah well… We are looking for skills like scouting, technology systems.
“People tell me I’m smart and the head of innovation that works for me is way above average at overseeing physical abuse of other employees”
Is this really how you were evaluated at your last job?
“Culture is everything for us. We are a classy, no excuses bunch. We’d have had the most wins in the NFL while I was assistant GM if it wasn’t for COVID, Y2K, 9/11 was really hard on everyone. Our fans were the meanest. Our players were always getting injured. I was never really given a chance to spread my wings and fly but you know, sometimes that happens when your surrounded by brilliant, nice, spectacular and beautiful Eagles. Soaring to glory, always.”
You are aware you were the only team in the last 4 years to never have a winning record?
***Abrams now rocking back and forth muttering to himself*** “So smart, so smart and glorious. All the players call me and tell me how smart we are… and classy, smart and classy. You can do this Kevin, John told you this might happen. Just stick to your guns. ***He now pulls out his finger guns*** Pew… Pew… Pew… …”
"Heh heh heh heh, clowns are funny."
the Maras think they know football. They're going to keep on meddling. By only going halfway, in an effort to placate the fans, not only are things going to be half ass, they'll continue to think that if they could have things their way, success will happen. That by caving to the fans, they undercut their ability to achieve success. They can keep on living their fantasy.
Or, the flip side. They may actually have a good plan, but they're screwing it up by backing away from it.
Go full ass, or not at all.
Fans matter, but not nearly as much as in other businesses. I want a CEO to run the company, not the fans. I also want a new CEO, but that's not happening any time soon.
the Maras think they know football. They're going to keep on meddling. By only going halfway, in an effort to placate the fans, not only are things going to be half ass, they'll continue to think that if they could have things their way, success will happen. That by caving to the fans, they undercut their ability to achieve success. They can keep on living their fantasy.
Or, the flip side. They may actually have a good plan, but they're screwing it up by backing away from it.
Go full ass, or not at all.
Fans matter, but not nearly as much as in other businesses. I want a CEO to run the company, not the fans. I also want a new CEO, but that's not happening any time soon.
This is a great post. And I’d argue Mara has listened to the fans already too much.
I don’t. I think it’s overplayed. Gettleman was running the show (especially in 2018 & 2019) and he failed.
Also, the moves clearly cater to the coaching/scheme which show the coaches have input too.
not me...they worked hand in hand
Mara definitely has a say, but I don't see how that makes us any different from the Cowboys or the Redskins. If anything Mara seems more hands off than other owners.
I don’t. Hypothetically, if DG was an excellent GM, he would have rebuilt the team well. But every Mara involvement as rumored has been negative. They are a handicap.
You are going to see less involvement from ownership once the ship is steered back on course, if that ever happens. But when you're talking decisions like top 5 picks and the team's franchise QB, there is not an owner in the league who would not at least be close to such decisions. Point is, DG has well earned the criticism, despite the follies of ownership.
You are going to see less involvement from ownership once the ship is steered back on course, if that ever happens. But when you're talking decisions like top 5 picks and the team's franchise QB, there is not an owner in the league who would not at least be close to such decisions. Point is, DG has well earned the criticism, despite ownership's contributions.
Keep pushing for a full house cleaning in the FO and HC. Scrub away Gettleman, Abrams, Petit, Siam, family members from football personnel positions. Review the performance of Scouts and wash away the ones who have performed poorly.
We should keep posting this here and on twitter. Call in to shows. Create a petition out of Eric's open letter, sign it and send it to the team.
Anything we can think of, just keep turning up the heat.
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who really thinks that the Mara's meddling in football operations actually caused Gettleman to not be able to rebuild this team properly?
Absolutely not. DG shared the same failed vision in 2018 when he was hired. There is no doubt the Jones pick has Mara's finger prints all over but I highly doubt DG wasn't also on board. Outside of that, the rest is all DG. Mara is not sitting there outmuscling his GM on 3rd round picks. Th franchise altering decisions, yes, but even then after building consensus.
You are going to see less involvement from ownership once the ship is steered back on course, if that ever happens. But when you're talking decisions like top 5 picks and the team's franchise QB, there is not an owner in the league who would not at least be close to such decisions. Point is, DG has well earned the criticism, despite ownership's contributions.
Spot on. Wouldn't change a word...
Did I miss something? What's this about?
Let’s also ask the question for Reese.
Then we can ask the question for the next GM if he fails as well.
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Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
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who really thinks that the Mara's meddling in football operations actually caused Gettleman to not be able to rebuild this team properly?
Let’s also ask the question for Reese.
Then we can ask the question for the next GM if he fails as well.
Ron, put aside looking at every piece to the NYG puzzle as we can go back and forth for days (like we already have).
I asked a simple question...what say you?
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who really thinks that the Mara's meddling in football operations actually caused Gettleman to not be able to rebuild this team properly?
Let’s also ask the question for Reese.
Then we can ask the question for the next GM if he fails as well.
But to answer your question, no the Mara boys probably aren’t the reason we are one of the worst teams in the league
But in a game of inches (to quote coach Pacino) in a super competitive environment, ever little advantage is needed and every little hindrance hurts.
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In comment 15532193 cosmicj said:
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Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
Was there anything else to that post though? Didn't we already know that? What tweets and rumors emerging?
Fucked either way.
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In comment 15532193 cosmicj said:
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Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
Markus Golden was ok for us, and he's playing pretty well back in AZ. The rest of them sucked, as did Betcher.
Is that because he is a great football mind, a leader of men, a man with a clear vision for the team?
Or is it most likely because he will continue to work in the “giants way” , hand in hand with Chris and Tim?
Poor decisions and hires at all levels, created and implemented more bad decisions at QB, many draft picks, UFA signings, you name it. No plan, no design, but a ton of reactionary thinking and personnel moves. A collective layer cake of shite.
So I am inferring that Shurmur was exerting this pressure on behalf of his DC.
Is that because he is a great football mind, a leader of men, a man with a clear vision for the team?
Or is it most likely because he will continue to work in the “giants way” , hand in hand with Chris and Tim?
While I don't doubt Mara "wanted" to promote Abrams to GM I always thought that decision was going to subject to the team performing to a better standard this year (playoffs or close to it) and allowing him to retire Gettleman gracefully with a somewhat stable and improving core and passing the baton onto Abrams. However, logic to me doesn't ever suggest it was a slam dunk no matter what happened in 2022.
John Mara is clearly not a great football mind although I know you were being sarcastic with that line. I am sure a lot of what John Mara sees in terms of guys working well together tends to cloud his judgment. He seemingly wants to put that ahead of sustainable results from time to time, and even tends to quote that sentiment at times.
To me, John Mara simply isn't all that good at deciphering through who are the best choices (or conversely who are the wrong ones) to run his football team...from QB all the way up to GM. Chris and Tim are "whatevers" in the overall scheme of things in the front office. They probably don't add much value to what a GM's team is already doing but they also don't put it in harm's way either. Gettleman's decisions are what's keeping this thing at 4-5 wins per year, not the family.
imv...
Oh. But really makes no difference as this is the key line..
John Mara simply isn't all that good at deciphering through who are the best choices (or conversely who are the wrong ones) to run his football team...from QB all the way up to GM.
imv...
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
The simplest question is this:
If Chris and Tim have a negligible role in player personnel, why are they the SVP and Co-Director of that department?
Tim's bio in particular suggests he's hardly a "whatever" in the department:
"In his current role, McDonnell evaluates both pro and college players while working closely with general manager Dave Gettleman and vice president of football operations and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams on all personnel decisions and strategic planning."
Either that's a vanity bio, or his role in the organization needs to be properly evaluated going forward.
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Chris and Tim are "whatevers" in the overall scheme of things in the front office. They probably don't add much value to what a GM's team is already doing but they also don't put it in harm's way either. Gettleman's decisions are what's keeping this thing at 4-5 wins per year, not the family.
imv...
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
Not sure anybody would be willing to say they aren't "active". I am just suggesting they aren't really value-add or value-harm, maybe superfluous fits...
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I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
The simplest question is this:
If Chris and Tim have a negligible role in player personnel, why are they the SVP and Co-Director of that department?
Tim's bio in particular suggests he's hardly a "whatever" in the department:
"In his current role, McDonnell evaluates both pro and college players while working closely with general manager Dave Gettleman and vice president of football operations and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams on all personnel decisions and strategic planning."
Either that's a vanity bio, or his role in the organization needs to be properly evaluated going forward.
When I referred to them as "whatevers" I meant the team wins 4-5 games per year based on the decisions made by the GM, whether they are are there or not.
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In comment 15532311 Jimmy Googs said:
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Chris and Tim are "whatevers" in the overall scheme of things in the front office. They probably don't add much value to what a GM's team is already doing but they also don't put it in harm's way either. Gettleman's decisions are what's keeping this thing at 4-5 wins per year, not the family.
imv...
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
Not sure anybody would be willing to say they aren't "active". I am just suggesting they aren't really value-add or value-harm, maybe superfluous fits...
neither of us has any clue to their abilities or track record.
But if they are not value add, they shouldn't be in those roles. Neutral is just as bad as being harmful
Would Indy be where they are if Ed Dodds is just a superfluous fit
no man is an island, it takes a village to raise a child, pick whatever analogy you want but no GM can be successful all on his own without a quality team around him.
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but not commenting on Indy's org structure and who drives the bus there...
no man is an island, it takes a village to raise a child, pick whatever analogy you want but no GM can be successful all on his own without a quality team around him.
Totally agree. Gettleman has more than enough resources around him...they probably aren't well-managed and/or suck too.
When I referred to them as "whatevers" I meant the team wins 4-5 games per year based on the decisions made by the GM, whether they are are there or not.
If you want a true evaluation of the franchise, every single member of it needs to be evaluated. You think the Patriots have "whatevers" hanging around their personnel department?
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When I referred to them as "whatevers" I meant the team wins 4-5 games per year based on the decisions made by the GM, whether they are are there or not.
If you want a true evaluation of the franchise, every single member of it needs to be evaluated. You think the Patriots have "whatevers" hanging around their personnel department?
I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
The fact that John Mara thinks he should be deciding right now whether Judge stays or goes, in advance of a GM search/process/hire, shows that he has learned absolutely nothing.
"I always said the best coaching jobs are determined by the number of people between the coach and the owner. In my case, there was no one between me and the owner. It was just Al and me, and whatever I wanted, I got."
How many people do the Giants have between Mara and Judge?
"I always said the best coaching jobs are determined by the number of people between the coach and the owner. In my case, there was no one between me and the owner. It was just Al and me, and whatever I wanted, I got."
How many people do the Giants have between Mara and Judge?
I was always under the impression that both the GM and HC report to Mara, so zero
I don't think the Giants hamstring their coaches. Fuck Shurmur seemed to get whatever he wanted
I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
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I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
A bridge too far with all these comments imv.
Find a competent GM first and foremost...
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
A bridge too far with all these comments imv.
Find a competent GM first and foremost...
You're entitled to your opinion. I'd set the bar higher than "competent" but I guess if the owners of the team aren't interested in doing everything possible to improve, why would fans be any different?
So sure, let's strive for competence.
you are out of your fucking mind if Judge is part of your future plan, and if I can't select my own coach, I'm not interested.
if they hear that enough times, they might still change their minds.
"I always said the best coaching jobs are determined by the number of people between the coach and the owner. In my case, there was no one between me and the owner. It was just Al and me, and whatever I wanted, I got."
How many people do the Giants have between Mara and Judge?
It's why I honestly think you can't give this job to a first time head coach.
Coughlin was a uniquely great fit because he had rebuilt programs and won before, so no one really got in his way. He was well-suited to essentially be the Manager of Football.
A first time head coach doesn't have the juice to keep the family out of football.
Sorry for not keeping your interest, imagine the disappointment I must be feeling.
I guess it's not compelling that the Mara family is fine with the structure of the organization, and as such only consider GM candidates who are willing to maintain the status quo. They're sure to find someone good, even though they've literally never chosen anyone on their own.
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word choices used for whatever reason. If you want to keep my interest then say something reasonably compelling. Thx.
Sorry for not keeping your interest, imagine the disappointment I must be feeling.
I guess it's not compelling that the Mara family is fine with the structure of the organization, and as such only consider GM candidates who are willing to maintain the status quo. They're sure to find someone good, even though they've literally never chosen anyone on their own.
Actually with posts like these, it's really more my disappointment than anything.
:- )
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In comment 15532193 cosmicj said:
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Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
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I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
But the 2nd point holds. It will be interesting to see if candidates refuse interviews or withdraw from consideration after interviewing
But the 2nd point holds. It will be interesting to see if candidates refuse interviews or withdraw from consideration after interviewing
Don’t forget Abrams. He’s part of the deal too.