Contact Info
Administration
Coaching Staff
Coaching History
Annual Records
Hall Of Fame
Retired Jerseys
Ring Of Honor
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| delete @gints86life There’s been an about face in the org. Mara knows he cannot retain judge and promote Abrams, although he wants to. Instead he’ll hire an outside Gm, retain judge, and retain Abrams (who’ll be allowed to look for a GM job elsewhere if he pleases). Mara feels the heat from fans. |
the Maras think they know football. They're going to keep on meddling. By only going halfway, in an effort to placate the fans, not only are things going to be half ass, they'll continue to think that if they could have things their way, success will happen. That by caving to the fans, they undercut their ability to achieve success. They can keep on living their fantasy.
Or, the flip side. They may actually have a good plan, but they're screwing it up by backing away from it.
Go full ass, or not at all.
Fans matter, but not nearly as much as in other businesses. I want a CEO to run the company, not the fans. I also want a new CEO, but that's not happening any time soon.
the Maras think they know football. They're going to keep on meddling. By only going halfway, in an effort to placate the fans, not only are things going to be half ass, they'll continue to think that if they could have things their way, success will happen. That by caving to the fans, they undercut their ability to achieve success. They can keep on living their fantasy.
Or, the flip side. They may actually have a good plan, but they're screwing it up by backing away from it.
Go full ass, or not at all.
Fans matter, but not nearly as much as in other businesses. I want a CEO to run the company, not the fans. I also want a new CEO, but that's not happening any time soon.
This is a great post. And I’d argue Mara has listened to the fans already too much.
I don’t. I think it’s overplayed. Gettleman was running the show (especially in 2018 & 2019) and he failed.
Also, the moves clearly cater to the coaching/scheme which show the coaches have input too.
not me...they worked hand in hand
Mara definitely has a say, but I don't see how that makes us any different from the Cowboys or the Redskins. If anything Mara seems more hands off than other owners.
I don’t. Hypothetically, if DG was an excellent GM, he would have rebuilt the team well. But every Mara involvement as rumored has been negative. They are a handicap.
You are going to see less involvement from ownership once the ship is steered back on course, if that ever happens. But when you're talking decisions like top 5 picks and the team's franchise QB, there is not an owner in the league who would not at least be close to such decisions. Point is, DG has well earned the criticism, despite the follies of ownership.
You are going to see less involvement from ownership once the ship is steered back on course, if that ever happens. But when you're talking decisions like top 5 picks and the team's franchise QB, there is not an owner in the league who would not at least be close to such decisions. Point is, DG has well earned the criticism, despite ownership's contributions.
Keep pushing for a full house cleaning in the FO and HC. Scrub away Gettleman, Abrams, Petit, Siam, family members from football personnel positions. Review the performance of Scouts and wash away the ones who have performed poorly.
We should keep posting this here and on twitter. Call in to shows. Create a petition out of Eric's open letter, sign it and send it to the team.
Anything we can think of, just keep turning up the heat.
Quote:
who really thinks that the Mara's meddling in football operations actually caused Gettleman to not be able to rebuild this team properly?
Absolutely not. DG shared the same failed vision in 2018 when he was hired. There is no doubt the Jones pick has Mara's finger prints all over but I highly doubt DG wasn't also on board. Outside of that, the rest is all DG. Mara is not sitting there outmuscling his GM on 3rd round picks. Th franchise altering decisions, yes, but even then after building consensus.
You are going to see less involvement from ownership once the ship is steered back on course, if that ever happens. But when you're talking decisions like top 5 picks and the team's franchise QB, there is not an owner in the league who would not at least be close to such decisions. Point is, DG has well earned the criticism, despite ownership's contributions.
Spot on. Wouldn't change a word...
Did I miss something? What's this about?
Let’s also ask the question for Reese.
Then we can ask the question for the next GM if he fails as well.
Quote:
Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
Quote:
who really thinks that the Mara's meddling in football operations actually caused Gettleman to not be able to rebuild this team properly?
Let’s also ask the question for Reese.
Then we can ask the question for the next GM if he fails as well.
Ron, put aside looking at every piece to the NYG puzzle as we can go back and forth for days (like we already have).
I asked a simple question...what say you?
Quote:
who really thinks that the Mara's meddling in football operations actually caused Gettleman to not be able to rebuild this team properly?
Let’s also ask the question for Reese.
Then we can ask the question for the next GM if he fails as well.
But to answer your question, no the Mara boys probably aren’t the reason we are one of the worst teams in the league
But in a game of inches (to quote coach Pacino) in a super competitive environment, ever little advantage is needed and every little hindrance hurts.
Quote:
In comment 15532193 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
Was there anything else to that post though? Didn't we already know that? What tweets and rumors emerging?
Fucked either way.
Quote:
In comment 15532193 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Is that Bettcher looks to have been an absolute disaster in terms of roster acquisitions. Disaster.
Did I miss something? What's this about?
DG signing all the “Betcher boys” . Former cardinal defenders.
Markus Golden was ok for us, and he's playing pretty well back in AZ. The rest of them sucked, as did Betcher.
Is that because he is a great football mind, a leader of men, a man with a clear vision for the team?
Or is it most likely because he will continue to work in the “giants way” , hand in hand with Chris and Tim?
Poor decisions and hires at all levels, created and implemented more bad decisions at QB, many draft picks, UFA signings, you name it. No plan, no design, but a ton of reactionary thinking and personnel moves. A collective layer cake of shite.
So I am inferring that Shurmur was exerting this pressure on behalf of his DC.
Is that because he is a great football mind, a leader of men, a man with a clear vision for the team?
Or is it most likely because he will continue to work in the “giants way” , hand in hand with Chris and Tim?
While I don't doubt Mara "wanted" to promote Abrams to GM I always thought that decision was going to subject to the team performing to a better standard this year (playoffs or close to it) and allowing him to retire Gettleman gracefully with a somewhat stable and improving core and passing the baton onto Abrams. However, logic to me doesn't ever suggest it was a slam dunk no matter what happened in 2022.
John Mara is clearly not a great football mind although I know you were being sarcastic with that line. I am sure a lot of what John Mara sees in terms of guys working well together tends to cloud his judgment. He seemingly wants to put that ahead of sustainable results from time to time, and even tends to quote that sentiment at times.
To me, John Mara simply isn't all that good at deciphering through who are the best choices (or conversely who are the wrong ones) to run his football team...from QB all the way up to GM. Chris and Tim are "whatevers" in the overall scheme of things in the front office. They probably don't add much value to what a GM's team is already doing but they also don't put it in harm's way either. Gettleman's decisions are what's keeping this thing at 4-5 wins per year, not the family.
imv...
Oh. But really makes no difference as this is the key line..
John Mara simply isn't all that good at deciphering through who are the best choices (or conversely who are the wrong ones) to run his football team...from QB all the way up to GM.
imv...
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
The simplest question is this:
If Chris and Tim have a negligible role in player personnel, why are they the SVP and Co-Director of that department?
Tim's bio in particular suggests he's hardly a "whatever" in the department:
"In his current role, McDonnell evaluates both pro and college players while working closely with general manager Dave Gettleman and vice president of football operations and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams on all personnel decisions and strategic planning."
Either that's a vanity bio, or his role in the organization needs to be properly evaluated going forward.
Quote:
Chris and Tim are "whatevers" in the overall scheme of things in the front office. They probably don't add much value to what a GM's team is already doing but they also don't put it in harm's way either. Gettleman's decisions are what's keeping this thing at 4-5 wins per year, not the family.
imv...
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
Not sure anybody would be willing to say they aren't "active". I am just suggesting they aren't really value-add or value-harm, maybe superfluous fits...
Quote:
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
The simplest question is this:
If Chris and Tim have a negligible role in player personnel, why are they the SVP and Co-Director of that department?
Tim's bio in particular suggests he's hardly a "whatever" in the department:
"In his current role, McDonnell evaluates both pro and college players while working closely with general manager Dave Gettleman and vice president of football operations and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams on all personnel decisions and strategic planning."
Either that's a vanity bio, or his role in the organization needs to be properly evaluated going forward.
When I referred to them as "whatevers" I meant the team wins 4-5 games per year based on the decisions made by the GM, whether they are are there or not.
Quote:
In comment 15532311 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Chris and Tim are "whatevers" in the overall scheme of things in the front office. They probably don't add much value to what a GM's team is already doing but they also don't put it in harm's way either. Gettleman's decisions are what's keeping this thing at 4-5 wins per year, not the family.
imv...
I just find it hard to believe that Chris (mostly in the past) and Tim (mostly in the future) are willing to sit back and not take an active role in the profession they have dedicated their lives to.
Maybe Tim is some boy wonder, lets hope so. It would be hard to find someone else with a better background for running a NFL franchise. The question is, does the talent match the opportunities and advantages he has been given.
Not sure anybody would be willing to say they aren't "active". I am just suggesting they aren't really value-add or value-harm, maybe superfluous fits...
neither of us has any clue to their abilities or track record.
But if they are not value add, they shouldn't be in those roles. Neutral is just as bad as being harmful
Would Indy be where they are if Ed Dodds is just a superfluous fit
no man is an island, it takes a village to raise a child, pick whatever analogy you want but no GM can be successful all on his own without a quality team around him.
Quote:
but not commenting on Indy's org structure and who drives the bus there...
no man is an island, it takes a village to raise a child, pick whatever analogy you want but no GM can be successful all on his own without a quality team around him.
Totally agree. Gettleman has more than enough resources around him...they probably aren't well-managed and/or suck too.
When I referred to them as "whatevers" I meant the team wins 4-5 games per year based on the decisions made by the GM, whether they are are there or not.
If you want a true evaluation of the franchise, every single member of it needs to be evaluated. You think the Patriots have "whatevers" hanging around their personnel department?
Quote:
When I referred to them as "whatevers" I meant the team wins 4-5 games per year based on the decisions made by the GM, whether they are are there or not.
If you want a true evaluation of the franchise, every single member of it needs to be evaluated. You think the Patriots have "whatevers" hanging around their personnel department?
I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
The fact that John Mara thinks he should be deciding right now whether Judge stays or goes, in advance of a GM search/process/hire, shows that he has learned absolutely nothing.
"I always said the best coaching jobs are determined by the number of people between the coach and the owner. In my case, there was no one between me and the owner. It was just Al and me, and whatever I wanted, I got."
How many people do the Giants have between Mara and Judge?
"I always said the best coaching jobs are determined by the number of people between the coach and the owner. In my case, there was no one between me and the owner. It was just Al and me, and whatever I wanted, I got."
How many people do the Giants have between Mara and Judge?
I was always under the impression that both the GM and HC report to Mara, so zero
I don't think the Giants hamstring their coaches. Fuck Shurmur seemed to get whatever he wanted
I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
Quote:
I don't have a hard-on like some of you all do in terms of shedding the family from having titles/roles. If it happens...fine, whatever.
Far more interested in them finding a competent GM that can get this thing turned around on the field.
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
A bridge too far with all these comments imv.
Find a competent GM first and foremost...
It's harder to find a "competent" GM when the position comes with the caveat that you can't fire anybody. Who the hell would sign up for that?
If they wanted to find a competent GM, they wouldn't limit the pool of candidates to people who will go along with the existing structure of the franchise.
A bridge too far with all these comments imv.
Find a competent GM first and foremost...
You're entitled to your opinion. I'd set the bar higher than "competent" but I guess if the owners of the team aren't interested in doing everything possible to improve, why would fans be any different?
So sure, let's strive for competence.
you are out of your fucking mind if Judge is part of your future plan, and if I can't select my own coach, I'm not interested.
if they hear that enough times, they might still change their minds.
"I always said the best coaching jobs are determined by the number of people between the coach and the owner. In my case, there was no one between me and the owner. It was just Al and me, and whatever I wanted, I got."
How many people do the Giants have between Mara and Judge?
It's why I honestly think you can't give this job to a first time head coach.
Coughlin was a uniquely great fit because he had rebuilt programs and won before, so no one really got in his way. He was well-suited to essentially be the Manager of Football.
A first time head coach doesn't have the juice to keep the family out of football.