from Fangraphs in November. Some good answers about approach and adjustments he's made at the plate. Seems to have a pretty good head on his shoulders.
Quote:
Laurila: Looking at video of your home runs, it struck me that many have been to center and to the opposite field…
Vientos: “Yeah, that comes with my approach. I know my game, and my power is center, right center, right field, left center. Personally, I don’t try to pull the ball; I try to hit everything up the middle. That keeps my swing… it keeps my hands inside, instead of yanking the ball. It also helps me recognize spin a lot more, because I’m letting the ball travel deeper.”
Laurila: Do you know the distance of your longest home run?
Vientos: “I’ve heard 480 [feet], but that was in 2019 and wasn’t recorded. On TrackMan, I hit one 460 earlier this year. It was to left center.”
cited Vientos as a very hard worker with "huge" power and a below average pure athlete that was likely a 1B/DH at the MLB level. Blankmeyer generally speaking was nothing but positive so I found it at least notable.
cited Vientos as a very hard worker with "huge" power and a below average pure athlete that was likely a 1B/DH at the MLB level. Blankmeyer generally speaking was nothing but positive so I found it at least notable.
I should note, he knew the Mets prospects better than most people on the planet given the fact he ran the alternate site.
Eno estimates DH to be worth about $50m to the players
LTT increase of $20m with looser penalties for overage should be worth about $100m
don't know what increasing the minimum salary is but I'd guess close to $25m
increasing pay in the minors would probably be even more than that
so bottomline it's pretty easy to find ~$200m more for the players.
and for the majority of owners it won't be any more of out their pocket if you net out the increase in playoff revenue.
never put anything past these 2 sides but there's no reason anyone should miss games. going to war over issues that only impact a small subset like overage FAs is pointless.
Eno says the DH is worth very little to the players and isn't something they should focus on.
yeah I saw his tweet and thought it was incredibly stupid other than the valuation.
a) 15 new starting spots is valuable. It is 15 more players who get paid more every year, not to mention increasing the market competition for the other 15 clubs in the AL. And anyone who can swing a bat is a candidate (as opposed to say the small universe of players who would get paid earlier bc they are overages if the service time changed). He literally put the value on it and $50m is quite significant.
b) he made a comment that it helps the owners because pitchers don't get hurt as much. Isn't that also good news for the half of the players association that are pitchers?
DH is a no-brainer for both sides which is why everyone is so certain it will be in.
cited Vientos as a very hard worker with "huge" power and a below average pure athlete that was likely a 1B/DH at the MLB level. Blankmeyer generally speaking was nothing but positive so I found it at least notable.
I think Vientos is a great fit for DH and maybe a little LF/1B on occasion. Also why I think adding someone like Schwarber would be great because it would leave open some at bats for a righty.
I think the at bats this year penciled in for Canha, Escobar, and DH are the future at bats for Baty/Vientos as they prove ready for the pro game.
time to retire Strawberry's number. He's turned around his life, he's a Mets icon.
Agreed. As should Gooden. Both were on legitimate HOF trajectories until their problems took over. Should at least have their numbers retired.
Strawberry and his wife actually run a ministry down in South Florida. I saw him at a restaurant. Always feel weird about going up to people, but I did tell him I was a big fan.
suspect Baty has to really mash to see Queens this season. He doesn't have to be added to the 40 man and they currently have Escobar, McNeil, JDD, Guillorme, and even Cano as 3B options. That doesn't include Vientos/Blankenhorn both already on the 40 man and even Mauricio (who also is on the 40 man). Baty likely needs to really explode in 2022 (and the Mets have a need) to be called up before he has to be added.
cited Vientos as a very hard worker with "huge" power and a below average pure athlete that was likely a 1B/DH at the MLB level. Blankmeyer generally speaking was nothing but positive so I found it at least notable.
I think Vientos is a great fit for DH and maybe a little LF/1B on occasion. Also why I think adding someone like Schwarber would be great because it would leave open some at bats for a righty.
I think the at bats this year penciled in for Canha, Escobar, and DH are the future at bats for Baty/Vientos as they prove ready for the pro game.
Yeah, agreed that I would rather trade Dom than Vientos. His kind of power is pretty special. May even rival Alonso's.
Mets did set it up nicely with Escobar and Canha having two year deals, to be hopefully supplanted by the young guys. Alvarez should also be ready to take over fulltime from McCann by the time his contract is up as well
suspect Baty has to really mash to see Queens this season. He doesn't have to be added to the 40 man and they currently have Escobar, McNeil, JDD, Guillorme, and even Cano as 3B options. That doesn't include Vientos/Blankenhorn both already on the 40 man and even Mauricio (who also is on the 40 man). Baty likely needs to really explode in 2022 (and the Mets have a need) to be called up before he has to be added.
Agreed on Baty. I think he phases in next year when Escobar is in his walk year.
If Vientos plays well I think he comes up at some point when a spot arises (JDD, Canha, Escobar, or Alonso gets hurt, etc).
If he forces the issue with a 1.000 ops or something right away then I think they have to give him some DH time.
The main thing is that 2 years from now it's in the organizations best interest to have those 2 backfill Canha/Escobar so they can reallocate that $20m+ aav elsewhere.
Yeah, agreed that I would rather trade Dom than Vientos. His kind of power is pretty special. May even rival Alonso's.
Mets did set it up nicely with Escobar and Canha having two year deals, to be hopefully supplanted by the young guys. Alvarez should also be ready to take over fulltime from McCann by the time his contract is up as well
Mauricio could also time nicely with Marte in the OF.
Vientos' power in the minors last year was definitely comparable to Alonso-only, and he was younger than Alonso was when he reached those levels, and he got covid in the middle of the year.
The upside of 2 Alonso level RH bats in the middle of the lineup is almost incomprehensible and not upside I'd give up easily since he's so close to debuting. Not to rehash but it was far easier to give up PCA even if he's a safer bet down the road.
AFL results matter to the organization, but it sounded like after a hot start, it became clear Baty has some work to do.
Scouts came away with questions in regard to Baty. There is some belief he was simply tired after a long season but the swing looked long and slow (trouble with good velocity). I'm not particularly concerned but a 118 wRC+ is solid but not "he's very close to being a big big leaguer" good. That was good for 4th on his own team. I'm big on Baty but also think he's a year or so away.
from me. Things like retiring Keith's # and old timer's day are small, but IMO mean something. Winning obviously means more, but these small things do mean something.
Quote:
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
·
6m
Keith Hernandez says that the Mets are going to have an Old Timers Day this year.
he has a similar overall contact profile, similar ability to draw walks, scouts similarly considered both solid pure hitters, both seemed athletically built for XBH but not the type of pure power of say Alonso/Vientos. Baty is a year ahead by age even with the covid year since he didn't go to college, so with 1 more year of development he'd end up hitting the big leagues at a similar age.
A conforto level hitter would be a great outcome, especially if he can stick at 3b.
1994 @mets
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
1994 @mets
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
That is bizarre. I did not remember him having a year that good. He was a swingman for them. I know he was in the bullpen on Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball. Trying to recall the team, but they had Gooden, Young, Saberhagen, Hillman and Sid in the rotation. Franco, Maddux, Innis in the bullpen with Schourek. Lineup I can recall Kent, Thompson, HoJo (my personal favorite childhood player), Coleman, Darrin Jackson, Eddie Murray, Hundley. Bench I remember Orsulak, Gallagher, Charlie O'Brien, and Chico Walker. I know I am missing a few players from that team.
missed Bonilla (duh), Bobby Jones, Tim Bogar, Jeff McKnight, and Doug Saunders. I honestly don't even remember Doug Saunders in the game.
Anyone ever play that game, or am I talking to myself? My alltime favorite video game. About 14 when it came out. I remember buying the baseball almanac, so I could put the players in. Classic Link - ( New Window )
missed Bonilla (duh), Bobby Jones, Tim Bogar, Jeff McKnight, and Doug Saunders. I honestly don't even remember Doug Saunders in the game.
Anyone ever play that game, or am I talking to myself? My alltime favorite video game. About 14 when it came out. I remember buying the baseball almanac, so I could put the players in. Classic Link - ( New Window )
I liked Griffey baseball on N64 better this this one which was SNES.
1994 @mets
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
That is bizarre. I did not remember him having a year that good. He was a swingman for them. I know he was in the bullpen on Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball. Trying to recall the team, but they had Gooden, Young, Saberhagen, Hillman and Sid in the rotation. Franco, Maddux, Innis in the bullpen with Schourek. Lineup I can recall Kent, Thompson, HoJo (my personal favorite childhood player), Coleman, Darrin Jackson, Eddie Murray, Hundley. Bench I remember Orsulak, Gallagher, Charlie O'Brien, and Chico Walker. I know I am missing a few players from that team.
I was randomly looking at CY voting and it reminded me of some forgotten random strong seasons and forgotten solid SP's... John Smiley, Shane Reynolds etc. I did not remember Schourek's huge season myself.
1994 @mets
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
That is bizarre. I did not remember him having a year that good. He was a swingman for them. I know he was in the bullpen on Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball. Trying to recall the team, but they had Gooden, Young, Saberhagen, Hillman and Sid in the rotation. Franco, Maddux, Innis in the bullpen with Schourek. Lineup I can recall Kent, Thompson, HoJo (my personal favorite childhood player), Coleman, Darrin Jackson, Eddie Murray, Hundley. Bench I remember Orsulak, Gallagher, Charlie O'Brien, and Chico Walker. I know I am missing a few players from that team.
What I remember is that the Mets sent PS down because Dallas Green felt he did not have "belly." And IIRC, they kept some reliever who sucked and was cut a few weeks later.
I remember his having a really good year after he left Mets but just looked at his stats and he kind of faded after that.
Jeff Kent (HOF)
Eddie Murray (HOF)
Hojo
Bobby Bo
Vince Coleman
Todd Hundley
Jeromy Burnitz
That's a lot of talent. I guess some guys had not developed yet and others were past their prime a bit. But, damn, they should have won more than 59 games!
Evan Drellich
@EvanDrellich
·
11m
MLB’s proposal today didn’t encourage the players. A couple small changes. Expectations weren’t high going in, so in that regard, the proposal actually went mostly as expected. Remember, movement tends to wait until the last minute (or beyond):
My guess is they maybe edged up the LTT a little bit also
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
MLB raised pay for younger players (higher minimum salary and more money for Super 2s) in their proposal. Players union saw overall offer as “disappointing.” No word about a counter yet. Long way to go (but fortunately there’s still time)
At the moment though the reality is that the owners are negotiating against themselves until the players make an offer, and the players not engaging makes it unlikely the owners will change their's much because they want to anchor their end as low as possible.
The players need to counter with something or else they will be the ones not negotiating in good faith this time.
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
3m
Plenty more coming in a story at ESPN but the broad strokes of MLB's proposal, per sources:
- Funnel additional money to all players with 2+ years service
- Award draft picks to teams that don't manipulate service of successful top prospects
- Tweaks to proposed draft lottery
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
59s
Players union disappointment stems from no change from where MLB was on the luxury tax (thresholds or penalties), free agency or revenue sharing. They also prefer to see a greater increase in minimum player salary than MLB has offered. A’s said dudes remain far apart.
I clearly don't understand how minor league player rights work. @mets recently released Anthony Manuel (son of ex-manager Jerry Manuel) he had not played in the Mets organization since 2006
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
9m
MLB remans dead set against lowering free agency from 6 years to 5. Part of the concern stems from the history of the big stars jumping from smaller markets to big markets when they hit free agency and belief this would hurt competitive balance.
the current system is somewhere between 200-500m annually below what the players want.
DH = +50m for the players. Etc.
Expanded playoffs = extra revenue for all.
We can't expect MLB to negotiate with themselves. It's the player's turn to counter and identify their priorities. Take the increases for young players and early service time, increase the LTT, find a middle ground of projected increase to players salaries overall and make a deal.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
9m
MLB remans dead set against lowering free agency from 6 years to 5. Part of the concern stems from the history of the big stars jumping from smaller markets to big markets when they hit free agency and belief this would hurt competitive balance.
wah wah. LAD lost Scherzer/Seager, Charles Johnson is worth 5.9 BILLION and let Gausman go. This "small market" stuff is absurd. John Fisher has a net worth of 3 billion. He didn't feel the urge to pay Marte 19.5 per. Miami "small market" Marlins were the runner up to sign Marte and they offered him 2 years 30 million to stay before trading him.
Ben Nicholson-Smith
@bnicholsonsmith
Also heard MLB owners offered a potential solution to service time manipulation in their proposal:
•if a highly-ranked prospect (within top 150 on prospect lists) plays a full year and finishes top five for a major award like MVP, Cy, RoY his team would get a bonus draft pick
like it or not the service time rules are the #1 thing keeping the small market teams viable. this gives them some incentive to be more aggressive with players who deserve it (the top prospects). Starting the clock earlier = more money and sooner for players.
Ben Nicholson-Smith
@bnicholsonsmith
Also heard MLB owners offered a potential solution to service time manipulation in their proposal:
•if a highly-ranked prospect (within top 150 on prospect lists) plays a full year and finishes top five for a major award like MVP, Cy, RoY his team would get a bonus draft pick
like it or not the service time rules are the #1 thing keeping the small market teams viable. this gives them some incentive to be more aggressive with players who deserve it (the top prospects). Starting the clock earlier = more money and sooner for players.
Players apparently 100% against this part of the proposal. DOA I was told.
what they are for. we know they are dead set against any form of a cap, which is the easiest way to align salary growth with league revenues.
they need to pick their priorities and start compromising somewhere as opposed to just asking for accommodations. the next move is in their court to counter.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
15s
MLB offered a formula to provide more money to players with 2-plus years of service time in attempt to address concern about younger stars being vastly underpaid. The increased offer in minimum salary from $570,500 to $600K in 2022 (then scaled up in ‘23, etc.) has been on table.
Folks the reality is that the players could care less about the state of baseball in say years. There are massive issues in the game and if they aren’t addressed the fact is everyone in that sport will be making less. Pace of play, better equality and competitive teams, stars leaving small franchises and more parity in the playoffs are all things that will keep more teams involved and thus more fans engaged while also getting kids to become and stay fans. Instead of addressing these fundamental issues though the players just want to apply a bandaid of more money in short term at all costs. It’s very frustrating to watch.
Folks the reality is that the players could care less about the state of baseball in say years. There are massive issues in the game and if they aren’t addressed the fact is everyone in that sport will be making less. Pace of play, better equality and competitive teams, stars leaving small franchises and more parity in the playoffs are all things that will keep more teams involved and thus more fans engaged while also getting kids to become and stay fans. Instead of addressing these fundamental issues though the players just want to apply a bandaid of more money in short term at all costs. It’s very frustrating to watch.
Neither side is clean in this. I'm not convinced the owners care about the state of baseball in 60 years either. We already siphon money from successful, competitive teams to small market teams in the name of competitive balance. That was done in the name of better equality and more competitive teams.
You'd have to really show me something to make me believe the owners don't just want to take money back from players to pocket. If this dispute was just about the good of the sport, the owners would open up the books and have an honest discourse about a path forward.
the players say they want more competitive balance but they want to ditch the 1 feature of the existing landscape that keeps small market teams competitive (service time). they say they care about more compensation to young players but what they want is UFA as early as possible.
the small market owners cry poverty, some to obviously extreme lengths where their payrolls are a literal joke. but also gladly pocket revenue sharing and bemoan big markets spending.
all that said progress is incremental and given the reality that the players CBA is more generous than any other sport both sides should make some incremental progress to spare us fans of their bullshit.
unlike 2020 i blame the MLBPA more right now than the owners because they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Every other sport has aligned salaries to a % of revenues (aka cap). That ensures salaries grow as revenues grow. And each sport has different nuances with hard caps, LTT, cap floors, etc. Pretty simple because team and player interests are aligned - grow the sport, grow the pot, grow the salaries. The MLBPA refuses to entertain that (remember the A-Rod comments he had to walk back?). Which is fine - if they like the current system better than a cap that's their right. But own it and negotiate in good faith towards a deal. If the owners don't like in 2020 then they will get the blame - like they did in 2020.
Vientos: “Yeah, that comes with my approach. I know my game, and my power is center, right center, right field, left center. Personally, I don’t try to pull the ball; I try to hit everything up the middle. That keeps my swing… it keeps my hands inside, instead of yanking the ball. It also helps me recognize spin a lot more, because I’m letting the ball travel deeper.”
Laurila: Do you know the distance of your longest home run?
Vientos: “I’ve heard 480 [feet], but that was in 2019 and wasn’t recorded. On TrackMan, I hit one 460 earlier this year. It was to left center.”
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mets-prospect-mark-vientos-talks-hitting/ - ( New Window )
I should note, he knew the Mets prospects better than most people on the planet given the fact he ran the alternate site.
Quote:
Eno estimates DH to be worth about $50m to the players
LTT increase of $20m with looser penalties for overage should be worth about $100m
don't know what increasing the minimum salary is but I'd guess close to $25m
increasing pay in the minors would probably be even more than that
so bottomline it's pretty easy to find ~$200m more for the players.
and for the majority of owners it won't be any more of out their pocket if you net out the increase in playoff revenue.
never put anything past these 2 sides but there's no reason anyone should miss games. going to war over issues that only impact a small subset like overage FAs is pointless.
Eno says the DH is worth very little to the players and isn't something they should focus on.
yeah I saw his tweet and thought it was incredibly stupid other than the valuation.
a) 15 new starting spots is valuable. It is 15 more players who get paid more every year, not to mention increasing the market competition for the other 15 clubs in the AL. And anyone who can swing a bat is a candidate (as opposed to say the small universe of players who would get paid earlier bc they are overages if the service time changed). He literally put the value on it and $50m is quite significant.
b) he made a comment that it helps the owners because pitchers don't get hurt as much. Isn't that also good news for the half of the players association that are pitchers?
DH is a no-brainer for both sides which is why everyone is so certain it will be in.
I think Vientos is a great fit for DH and maybe a little LF/1B on occasion. Also why I think adding someone like Schwarber would be great because it would leave open some at bats for a righty.
I think the at bats this year penciled in for Canha, Escobar, and DH are the future at bats for Baty/Vientos as they prove ready for the pro game.
Agreed. As should Gooden. Both were on legitimate HOF trajectories until their problems took over. Should at least have their numbers retired.
Strawberry and his wife actually run a ministry down in South Florida. I saw him at a restaurant. Always feel weird about going up to people, but I did tell him I was a big fan.
Quote:
cited Vientos as a very hard worker with "huge" power and a below average pure athlete that was likely a 1B/DH at the MLB level. Blankmeyer generally speaking was nothing but positive so I found it at least notable.
I think Vientos is a great fit for DH and maybe a little LF/1B on occasion. Also why I think adding someone like Schwarber would be great because it would leave open some at bats for a righty.
I think the at bats this year penciled in for Canha, Escobar, and DH are the future at bats for Baty/Vientos as they prove ready for the pro game.
Yeah, agreed that I would rather trade Dom than Vientos. His kind of power is pretty special. May even rival Alonso's.
Mets did set it up nicely with Escobar and Canha having two year deals, to be hopefully supplanted by the young guys. Alvarez should also be ready to take over fulltime from McCann by the time his contract is up as well
Agreed on Baty. I think he phases in next year when Escobar is in his walk year.
If Vientos plays well I think he comes up at some point when a spot arises (JDD, Canha, Escobar, or Alonso gets hurt, etc).
If he forces the issue with a 1.000 ops or something right away then I think they have to give him some DH time.
The main thing is that 2 years from now it's in the organizations best interest to have those 2 backfill Canha/Escobar so they can reallocate that $20m+ aav elsewhere.
Yeah, agreed that I would rather trade Dom than Vientos. His kind of power is pretty special. May even rival Alonso's.
Mets did set it up nicely with Escobar and Canha having two year deals, to be hopefully supplanted by the young guys. Alvarez should also be ready to take over fulltime from McCann by the time his contract is up as well
Mauricio could also time nicely with Marte in the OF.
Vientos' power in the minors last year was definitely comparable to Alonso-only, and he was younger than Alonso was when he reached those levels, and he got covid in the middle of the year.
The upside of 2 Alonso level RH bats in the middle of the lineup is almost incomprehensible and not upside I'd give up easily since he's so close to debuting. Not to rehash but it was far easier to give up PCA even if he's a safer bet down the road.
@Jacob_Resnick
Since 2006, players to hit 20+ HR with a .920+ OPS before turning 22 at Double-A:
Mark Vientos (‘21)
Javier Báez (‘13)
Oscar Taveras (‘12)
Mike Moustakas (‘10)
Giancarlo Stanton (‘10)
Evan Longoria (‘07)
Colby Rasmus (‘07)
https://www.sny.tv/articles/breaking-down-mets-farm-system-2022 - ( New Window )
Scouts came away with questions in regard to Baty. There is some belief he was simply tired after a long season but the swing looked long and slow (trouble with good velocity). I'm not particularly concerned but a 118 wRC+ is solid but not "he's very close to being a big big leaguer" good. That was good for 4th on his own team. I'm big on Baty but also think he's a year or so away.
@mikemayer22
·
6m
Keith Hernandez says that the Mets are going to have an Old Timers Day this year.
A conforto level hitter would be a great outcome, especially if he can stick at 3b.
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
That is bizarre. I did not remember him having a year that good. He was a swingman for them. I know he was in the bullpen on Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball. Trying to recall the team, but they had Gooden, Young, Saberhagen, Hillman and Sid in the rotation. Franco, Maddux, Innis in the bullpen with Schourek. Lineup I can recall Kent, Thompson, HoJo (my personal favorite childhood player), Coleman, Darrin Jackson, Eddie Murray, Hundley. Bench I remember Orsulak, Gallagher, Charlie O'Brien, and Chico Walker. I know I am missing a few players from that team.
Anyone ever play that game, or am I talking to myself? My alltime favorite video game. About 14 when it came out. I remember buying the baseball almanac, so I could put the players in. Classic
Link - ( New Window )
Anyone ever play that game, or am I talking to myself? My alltime favorite video game. About 14 when it came out. I remember buying the baseball almanac, so I could put the players in. Classic Link - ( New Window )
I liked Griffey baseball on N64 better this this one which was SNES.
Quote:
1994 @mets
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
That is bizarre. I did not remember him having a year that good. He was a swingman for them. I know he was in the bullpen on Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball. Trying to recall the team, but they had Gooden, Young, Saberhagen, Hillman and Sid in the rotation. Franco, Maddux, Innis in the bullpen with Schourek. Lineup I can recall Kent, Thompson, HoJo (my personal favorite childhood player), Coleman, Darrin Jackson, Eddie Murray, Hundley. Bench I remember Orsulak, Gallagher, Charlie O'Brien, and Chico Walker. I know I am missing a few players from that team.
I was randomly looking at CY voting and it reminded me of some forgotten random strong seasons and forgotten solid SP's... John Smiley, Shane Reynolds etc. I did not remember Schourek's huge season myself.
Quote:
1994 @mets
lose Pete Schourek off of waivers, 1995 he finishes 2nd in NL CY voting. Never again does he ever come close to approaching that level of success.
That is bizarre. I did not remember him having a year that good. He was a swingman for them. I know he was in the bullpen on Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball. Trying to recall the team, but they had Gooden, Young, Saberhagen, Hillman and Sid in the rotation. Franco, Maddux, Innis in the bullpen with Schourek. Lineup I can recall Kent, Thompson, HoJo (my personal favorite childhood player), Coleman, Darrin Jackson, Eddie Murray, Hundley. Bench I remember Orsulak, Gallagher, Charlie O'Brien, and Chico Walker. I know I am missing a few players from that team.
What I remember is that the Mets sent PS down because Dallas Green felt he did not have "belly." And IIRC, they kept some reliever who sucked and was cut a few weeks later.
I remember his having a really good year after he left Mets but just looked at his stats and he kind of faded after that.
Eddie Murray (HOF)
Hojo
Bobby Bo
Vince Coleman
Todd Hundley
Jeromy Burnitz
That's a lot of talent. I guess some guys had not developed yet and others were past their prime a bit. But, damn, they should have won more than 59 games!
Evan Drellich
@EvanDrellich
·
11m
MLB’s proposal today didn’t encourage the players. A couple small changes. Expectations weren’t high going in, so in that regard, the proposal actually went mostly as expected. Remember, movement tends to wait until the last minute (or beyond):
@JonHeyman
MLB raised pay for younger players (higher minimum salary and more money for Super 2s) in their proposal. Players union saw overall offer as “disappointing.” No word about a counter yet. Long way to go (but fortunately there’s still time)
At the moment though the reality is that the owners are negotiating against themselves until the players make an offer, and the players not engaging makes it unlikely the owners will change their's much because they want to anchor their end as low as possible.
The players need to counter with something or else they will be the ones not negotiating in good faith this time.
@mikemayer22
·
21s
The Mets have signed left-handed reliever Alex Claudio to a minor league deal per @BaseballAmerica
.
Claudio had a 5.51 ERA in the big leagues last season, but had a career 3.44 ERA coming into the year.
Nogosek also returns on a minor league deal
Link - ( New Window )
@JeffPassan
·
3m
Plenty more coming in a story at ESPN but the broad strokes of MLB's proposal, per sources:
- Funnel additional money to all players with 2+ years service
- Award draft picks to teams that don't manipulate service of successful top prospects
- Tweaks to proposed draft lottery
@JonHeyman
·
59s
Players union disappointment stems from no change from where MLB was on the luxury tax (thresholds or penalties), free agency or revenue sharing. They also prefer to see a greater increase in minimum player salary than MLB has offered. A’s said dudes remain far apart.
@JonHeyman
·
9m
MLB remans dead set against lowering free agency from 6 years to 5. Part of the concern stems from the history of the big stars jumping from smaller markets to big markets when they hit free agency and belief this would hurt competitive balance.
DH = +50m for the players. Etc.
Expanded playoffs = extra revenue for all.
We can't expect MLB to negotiate with themselves. It's the player's turn to counter and identify their priorities. Take the increases for young players and early service time, increase the LTT, find a middle ground of projected increase to players salaries overall and make a deal.
@JonHeyman
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9m
MLB remans dead set against lowering free agency from 6 years to 5. Part of the concern stems from the history of the big stars jumping from smaller markets to big markets when they hit free agency and belief this would hurt competitive balance.
wah wah. LAD lost Scherzer/Seager, Charles Johnson is worth 5.9 BILLION and let Gausman go. This "small market" stuff is absurd. John Fisher has a net worth of 3 billion. He didn't feel the urge to pay Marte 19.5 per. Miami "small market" Marlins were the runner up to sign Marte and they offered him 2 years 30 million to stay before trading him.
Slusser cautioned it could still become an issue if tied to other issues but as a standalone both sides are okay with it.
@bnicholsonsmith
Also heard MLB owners offered a potential solution to service time manipulation in their proposal:
•if a highly-ranked prospect (within top 150 on prospect lists) plays a full year and finishes top five for a major award like MVP, Cy, RoY his team would get a bonus draft pick
like it or not the service time rules are the #1 thing keeping the small market teams viable. this gives them some incentive to be more aggressive with players who deserve it (the top prospects). Starting the clock earlier = more money and sooner for players.
Quote:
Ben Nicholson-Smith
@bnicholsonsmith
Also heard MLB owners offered a potential solution to service time manipulation in their proposal:
•if a highly-ranked prospect (within top 150 on prospect lists) plays a full year and finishes top five for a major award like MVP, Cy, RoY his team would get a bonus draft pick
like it or not the service time rules are the #1 thing keeping the small market teams viable. this gives them some incentive to be more aggressive with players who deserve it (the top prospects). Starting the clock earlier = more money and sooner for players.
Players apparently 100% against this part of the proposal. DOA I was told.
@bnicholsonsmith
Also heard MLB’s offer to players today included 14 teams in playoffs
That's arguably players' biggest bargaining chip: owners clearly want expanded playoffs.
they need to pick their priorities and start compromising somewhere as opposed to just asking for accommodations. the next move is in their court to counter.
@JonHeyman
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MLB offered a formula to provide more money to players with 2-plus years of service time in attempt to address concern about younger stars being vastly underpaid. The increased offer in minimum salary from $570,500 to $600K in 2022 (then scaled up in ‘23, etc.) has been on table.
OF Simon Juan for $1.9 million and OF Willy Fanas to $1.5 million.
Neither side is clean in this. I'm not convinced the owners care about the state of baseball in 60 years either. We already siphon money from successful, competitive teams to small market teams in the name of competitive balance. That was done in the name of better equality and more competitive teams.
You'd have to really show me something to make me believe the owners don't just want to take money back from players to pocket. If this dispute was just about the good of the sport, the owners would open up the books and have an honest discourse about a path forward.
the small market owners cry poverty, some to obviously extreme lengths where their payrolls are a literal joke. but also gladly pocket revenue sharing and bemoan big markets spending.
all that said progress is incremental and given the reality that the players CBA is more generous than any other sport both sides should make some incremental progress to spare us fans of their bullshit.
unlike 2020 i blame the MLBPA more right now than the owners because they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Every other sport has aligned salaries to a % of revenues (aka cap). That ensures salaries grow as revenues grow. And each sport has different nuances with hard caps, LTT, cap floors, etc. Pretty simple because team and player interests are aligned - grow the sport, grow the pot, grow the salaries. The MLBPA refuses to entertain that (remember the A-Rod comments he had to walk back?). Which is fine - if they like the current system better than a cap that's their right. But own it and negotiate in good faith towards a deal. If the owners don't like in 2020 then they will get the blame - like they did in 2020.