in 2022 by a logarithmic function. If we had a decent IOL Jones would have more time, hits on him would be less, and he would have to run for his life less.
This would decrease Jones fumbles, his injuries, and interceptions. dj has not had a fair trial with a makeshift OL. In addition a steady O line would improve running game and stop RBs from being hit behind the LOS. An improved running game would not only help Giants win by having a ground game, it would ease burden on DJ and improve passing game.
Giants must first load up on offensive lineman in draft and then go for depth with BPA. You don’t need a total demolition to do this.
*Starting RT
*Starting RG
Fix the Oline, but we need a QB also.
The Giants need to start drafting reasonably good OL in the 3rd-5th rounds year in and year out. They can’t throw 1st rounders at the problem. It won’t work even if the picks are good.
but we do have to invest a lot of this draft and offseason in OL. no excuses anymore.
Or so say BBI.... <sigh>
Without the OLine getting fixed, this team is going nowhere
Or so say BBI.... <sigh>
Without the OLine getting fixed, this team is going nowhere
Barely anyone says this on BBI. Most people want Edge, OL or QB
The OL needs attention sure, esp with Hernandez and Solder both figuring to be gone, but the QB and the offensive system need upgrading just as much.
respectfully disagree on this. the OL, specifically OT is a premium position. and charles cross is a significantly better prospect than the third highest rated EDGE player
The OL needs attention sure, esp with Hernandez and Solder both figuring to be gone, but the QB and the offensive system need upgrading just as much.
This is a ludicrous statement. I get you got a hard on for DJ but
Giants v Charges OL last year.. Herbert is awesome talent but Who did DJ have to throw it to behind that juggernaut line lol? RB? and ohh What was average starting field position for the 2 teams last year..
Giants OL was no worse than Bengals this year lol really?! Who does Burrow throw it to again? Who is the RB? Giants would dream about that Running game. Cmon man
Giants need to build an OL that is at least average on hits and rushes on the QB. AND can run the ball!
The Eagles 3rd string is better than our starters.. Not kidding
Cowboys too. Washington 2nd string Guards and 3rd string C are better.
The Giants need to start drafting reasonably good OL in the 3rd-5th rounds year in and year out. They can’t throw 1st rounders at the problem. It won’t work even if the picks are good.
Valid points but I disagree with the overall pov for THIS team (not other teams your scenario is more apt.). Though I think it okay with getting 3rd rounders etc. but also love the other way too that the OP is suggesting.
I terms of 5-7 years - for this situation just stating it would be an allocation of resources problem shouldn't apply.
Ideally the Giants are going to find their QB in 2023. In 2022 the two OL get a year under their belts. Wouldn't it be better for the young QB to have the best talent possible protecting him in his 1st year? Where is the drawback in that?
And if you chose the right QB, then 4-6 years from now the QB doesn't need as great of an OL so you don't have to worry which guy to sign etc.
I think we call can agree though that the best way to get out of this shithole is to just draft better across the board.
Obviously, the o-line is the largest problem personnel wise. the scheme is the biggest problem with the offense.
The OL needs attention sure, esp with Hernandez and Solder both figuring to be gone, but the QB and the offensive system need upgrading just as much.
How far did the Chargers go in the playoffs last despite having such a terrific QB?
This year's Giants is worse than the Bengals also. Whoever told you their OL's were equal I think was blowing smoke up your butt.
OC - Tyler Linderbaum
OG - Zion Johnson
i'm not kidding and it's not an exaggeration. these are all worthy players of their draft picks, so let's stop with that BS about draft grades not meeting the draft slot. their grades will be there. it will be a matter of priority and this HAS to be the priority. this team needs to build the foundation for success and create a situation that a QB can step into and succeed. also as an added bonus all 3 players i mentioned are all very althetic and would allow a lot of creativity in the run and screen game.
and to be honest this team needs to put a product on the field that is watchable. the defense is and will be adequate next year with the players currently under contract. will it be top 5? no, but it's adequate. they simply must field a functioning offense and to quote The Mandalorian, THIS IS THE WAY.
I just hope the Giants don’t repeat 2019 and just draft a QB, even if the value isn’t there. I mean I’m not saying the draft pundits are always right by any means, but I don’t really remember one analyst being enamored with our choice of Jones at 6. It was viewed as a reach and three years in it clearly seems that is the case. I know he’s had multiple coaches, line issues, skill position injuries, etc. But so has Herbert and he seems to be doing just fine.
OC - Tyler Linderbaum
OG - Zion Johnson
i'm not kidding and it's not an exaggeration. these are all worthy players of their draft picks, so let's stop with that BS about draft grades not meeting the draft slot. their grades will be there. it will be a matter of priority and this HAS to be the priority. this team needs to build the foundation for success and create a situation that a QB can step into and succeed. also as an added bonus all 3 players i mentioned are all very althetic and would allow a lot of creativity in the run and screen game.
and to be honest this team needs to put a product on the field that is watchable. the defense is and will be adequate next year with the players currently under contract. will it be top 5? no, but it's adequate. they simply must field a functioning offense and to quote The Mandalorian, THIS IS THE WAY.
Sign me up, I’m usually a fan that gets excited about the skill position players when draft time comes around, but we need line help desperately.
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to ignore premium positions early in the draft. If an OL makes the grade, so be it, but a blue chip defender who help even more.
respectfully disagree on this. the OL, specifically OT is a premium position. and charles cross is a significantly better prospect than the third highest rated EDGE player
Giants got their left tackle, few teams invest a top 10 pick and associated contract/cap hit on a RT too. I'd take the Edge over Cross in your scenario, likely more impact on games and the NYG Edge talent needs an impact guy as much as the OL needs a RT, perhaps even more.
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In comment 15532717 JonC said:
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to ignore premium positions early in the draft. If an OL makes the grade, so be it, but a blue chip defender who help even more.
respectfully disagree on this. the OL, specifically OT is a premium position. and charles cross is a significantly better prospect than the third highest rated EDGE player
Giants got their left tackle, few teams invest a top 10 pick and associated contract/cap hit on a RT too. I'd take the Edge over Cross in your scenario, likely more impact on games and the NYG Edge talent needs an impact guy as much as the OL needs a RT, perhaps even more.
Yes good points
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and a better quarterback would do a lot to help the offense. As many have noted, the Giants OL last year was better than the Chargers where Herbert managed to throw 31 TD passes as a rookie, and the Giants OL this year was no worse than the Bengals, where Burrow managed to throw 35 TDs this year after breaking his leg late last season.
The OL needs attention sure, esp with Hernandez and Solder both figuring to be gone, but the QB and the offensive system need upgrading just as much.
How far did the Chargers go in the playoffs last despite having such a terrific QB?
This year's Giants is worse than the Bengals also. Whoever told you their OL's were equal I think was blowing smoke up your butt.
a shitty QB (jones), shitter backups (glennon, fromm), a shitty, oft-injured running back (barkley) and perpetually injured skill position players (shepard, toney, golladay, engram) are just as big of problems as the OL. as is the shitty offensive scheme and playcalling.
the entire offense should be flushed, coaches included.
someone above made a point about you can't have all first-round picks playing OL as it is unrealistic and will hurt your team in other areas and that you need to hit on OL in rounds 3-5 or UDFAs.
spending three first-round picks on OL this coming draft wont be enough to fix the offense when nine-tenths of the other players on offense suck or are never consistently on the field due to injury.
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In comment 15532717 JonC said:
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to ignore premium positions early in the draft. If an OL makes the grade, so be it, but a blue chip defender who help even more.
respectfully disagree on this. the OL, specifically OT is a premium position. and charles cross is a significantly better prospect than the third highest rated EDGE player
Giants got their left tackle, few teams invest a top 10 pick and associated contract/cap hit on a RT too. I'd take the Edge over Cross in your scenario, likely more impact on games and the NYG Edge talent needs an impact guy as much as the OL needs a RT, perhaps even more.
cowboys had tyron smith, zach martin, and travis frederick. all first round picks and paid ALL of them. teams can do it and have done it. it is not unheard of.
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In comment 15532717 JonC said:
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to ignore premium positions early in the draft. If an OL makes the grade, so be it, but a blue chip defender who help even more.
respectfully disagree on this. the OL, specifically OT is a premium position. and charles cross is a significantly better prospect than the third highest rated EDGE player
Giants got their left tackle, few teams invest a top 10 pick and associated contract/cap hit on a RT too. I'd take the Edge over Cross in your scenario, likely more impact on games and the NYG Edge talent needs an impact guy as much as the OL needs a RT, perhaps even more.
the saints used a 1st on Ruiz, a 1st on Ramczyk, drafted and PAID terron armstead, and drafted Andrus Peat in the 1st round
OC - Tyler Linderbaum
OG - Zion Johnson
i'm not kidding and it's not an exaggeration. these are all worthy players of their draft picks, so let's stop with that BS about draft grades not meeting the draft slot. their grades will be there. it will be a matter of priority and this HAS to be the priority. this team needs to build the foundation for success and create a situation that a QB can step into and succeed. also as an added bonus all 3 players i mentioned are all very althetic and would allow a lot of creativity in the run and screen game.
and to be honest this team needs to put a product on the field that is watchable. the defense is and will be adequate next year with the players currently under contract. will it be top 5? no, but it's adequate. they simply must field a functioning offense and to quote The Mandalorian, THIS IS THE WAY.
I love the players you cite but this is a bit too much for me. For the record, I favor most trade-downs. But I also prefer a different OL strategy if I had my preference.
The Giants also need a backup tackle. While they can get in FA - they can also look to draft combo players like Raimann or Saylor etc. In rd 1 I prefer Ekwonu. Lots of injuries happen so versatility also important.
I can't help but feel like Jones will have a Tannehill like revival in a good situation. Why not make NY that good situation.
I certainly understand why some people want to move on from him. I would just really like to see him get a chance. His interception % has dropped each year, his fumbling has decreased each year. If we can combine the improved ball security with some of the upside he showed his rookie year, I don't see why he can't succeed. He can run, he throws a nice deep ball. May be a bit slow to process, but give him a line and see what he can do. And if he falls flat next year, then we have our answer and can take a QB in 2023.
There are players all over the league performing well who were later draft picks and even UDFA's.
Some factors have contributed. Changes in OL play in lower levels of football. CBA. Poor/average OL coaching.
I have a hard time believing that you have to use multiple high picks or allocate huge FA dollars to assemble a good line. This approach will create big needs elsewhere.
There are players in the draft. They have to figure out the traits to look for that can be developed based on their findings. More volume in later picks would be a good start.
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In comment 15532706 japanhead said:
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and a better quarterback would do a lot to help the offense. As many have noted, the Giants OL last year was better than the Chargers where Herbert managed to throw 31 TD passes as a rookie, and the Giants OL this year was no worse than the Bengals, where Burrow managed to throw 35 TDs this year after breaking his leg late last season.
The OL needs attention sure, esp with Hernandez and Solder both figuring to be gone, but the QB and the offensive system need upgrading just as much.
How far did the Chargers go in the playoffs last despite having such a terrific QB?
This year's Giants is worse than the Bengals also. Whoever told you their OL's were equal I think was blowing smoke up your butt.
a shitty QB (jones), shitter backups (glennon, fromm), a shitty, oft-injured running back (barkley) and perpetually injured skill position players (shepard, toney, golladay, engram) are just as big of problems as the OL. as is the shitty offensive scheme and playcalling.
the entire offense should be flushed, coaches included.
someone above made a point about you can't have all first-round picks playing OL as it is unrealistic and will hurt your team in other areas and that you need to hit on OL in rounds 3-5 or UDFAs.
spending three first-round picks on OL this coming draft wont be enough to fix the offense when nine-tenths of the other players on offense suck or are never consistently on the field due to injury.
You can have all OL picked early and as a result other posters have replied that it is feasible. Thus anyone suggesting it is not feasible is wrong. While I would like an Edge with one of the 1st 3 picks - I can see the alternative.
Yes everything on offense sucks but in 2023 we can see a lot of QB's coming out. What's the downside of trying to give the QB the best protection possible?
I can't help but feel like Jones will have a Tannehill like revival in a good situation. Why not make NY that good situation.
I certainly understand why some people want to move on from him. I would just really like to see him get a chance. His interception % has dropped each year, his fumbling has decreased each year. If we can combine the improved ball security with some of the upside he showed his rookie year, I don't see why he can't succeed. He can run, he throws a nice deep ball. May be a bit slow to process, but give him a line and see what he can do. And if he falls flat next year, then we have our answer and can take a QB in 2023.
his TD:INT % his first year was 2:1. his second year it was around 1:1 (11 total TD passes and 10 ints). this year he had 10 TDs and 7 ints through 11 games before the neck injury.
the only thing he's improved is the fumbling. he's regressed badly in almost every other area.
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I doubt we are taking a QB this year. I doubt we are trading for Russ, Rodgers, Carr, Baker, or Deshaun.
I can't help but feel like Jones will have a Tannehill like revival in a good situation. Why not make NY that good situation.
I certainly understand why some people want to move on from him. I would just really like to see him get a chance. His interception % has dropped each year, his fumbling has decreased each year. If we can combine the improved ball security with some of the upside he showed his rookie year, I don't see why he can't succeed. He can run, he throws a nice deep ball. May be a bit slow to process, but give him a line and see what he can do. And if he falls flat next year, then we have our answer and can take a QB in 2023.
his TD:INT % his first year was 2:1. his second year it was around 1:1 (11 total TD passes and 10 ints). this year he had 10 TDs and 7 ints through 11 games before the neck injury.
the only thing he's improved is the fumbling. he's regressed badly in almost every other area.
2019 - 2.6%
2020 - 2.2%
2021 - 1.9% (not to mention this year 3 came in a game vs the Rams where he probably shouldn't have played, and 1 came on a Hail Mary before the half against New Orleans).
His interception % has decreased each year. I don't know what to tell you.
There are players all over the league performing well who were later draft picks and even UDFA's.
Some factors have contributed. Changes in OL play in lower levels of football. CBA. Poor/average OL coaching.
I have a hard time believing that you have to use multiple high picks or allocate huge FA dollars to assemble a good line. This approach will create big needs elsewhere.
There are players in the draft. They have to figure out the traits to look for that can be developed based on their findings. More volume in later picks would be a good start.
I have a hard time believing that if you draft 2 OL in 1st 3 rounds that are very good that it won't help our 2023 QB significantly.
While you make mention there are holes elsewhere - sure but as we can all agree the team can't fill all of them. SO why not invest in the bets possible protection for your future 2023 rookie QB by protecting his butt and potentially having a running game?
You don't always have to draft 5th round Offensive linemen for every OL spot, do you? SO why not get two OL in 1st 3 rounds? They are part of the rebuild too.
I do think that OL are undervalued in terms of impact as well. They are the only guys outside of QBs that really see the field on 100% of snaps. So if you have a stud, he is playing every single snap of the game where some positions, some star players are only out there for 60%. There's also a shortage of these guys around the league, supply and demand, it should drive up their value. In terms of impacting the game, year to year if you look around the league, the teams that are alive late in the playoffs either have a stud QB or stud OL. The lucky ones that have both have short odds to win the SB. So I definitely see the value in these guys.
This starts with better talent identification and then coaching as well
O line needs to get fixed. 100%. I just wish we could develop them better.
You people need to get Herbert's name out of your mouths. He's so much better than Jones it's ridiculous to involve in him a comparison. Jones will NEVER be on that level. Ever. Same with Burrow.
Let's make a fair comparison using the best season Jones has had:
Daniel Jones 2019 (with Shurmur, 12 starts): 61.9%, 24 TDs, 12 INTs, 11 fumbles lost, 6.59 Y/A
Case Keenum 2017 (Shurmur, 14 starts): 67.5%, 22 TDs, 7 INTs, 1 fumble lost, 7.37 Y/A
Unfortunately for Keenum, the Vikings didn't play in any meaningless games at the end of the year where he could throw 5 TDs against a secondary full of guys off the street.
The OL needs attention sure, esp with Hernandez and Solder both figuring to be gone, but the QB and the offensive system need upgrading just as much.
Not true. Our OL is much worse. We have no running game. What offensive system? Do you watch the games?
I want impact players at the top of the draft, they're the players who make the big plays and win games. Pay them accordingly. NYG must be able to find OL prospects throughout the draft, and balance shouldn't mean cluster drafting two top 10 OL or using your first three picks out of desperate need. That's exactly not what the draft should be about imo.
This defense needs help too, they're weak on the edges and their CBs are starting to reach the age and cap hit where youth is needed in the pipeline.
There isn't a lot of room for balance in the draft. When it's your turn, you can only pick one player. If you pick a worse player than one available because you want to fill a need, 3 things happen:
1. our roster as a whole is worse
2. You probably haven't filled the need anyway
3. Some other team drafted the better player and you're now at a relative disadvantage to them of your own making.
There is a lot of time to think about the draft, so people's thoughts stray towards ancillary things like need but fundamentally it's very simple, you usually just take the best player available.
I want a outstanding OL for a rookie QB and have said that multiple times. Heavy run initially and build into the more complex passing area for a rookie. Balance. If your QB deserves a second contract then you want to have a cost controlled OL which is what my previous post is about.
You also need impact defensive players. They get you off the field on third downs, close out games. They are harder to find later in the the draft imo. .
I think it is far easier to find a pro bowl center in round 5-6 (Kelce, O'Hara as a example) than it is a JPP, Tuck, Osi, etc.
Giants 2007 line Diehl (5th), RS (UDFA), O'Hara (UDFA), Snee (2nd), McKenzie (3rd).
One of the big mistakes the Giants made was carrying a very expensive OL (with a highly paid QB) and when it aged and they were not ready. They also left other positions with little talent. I'd like to avoid that mistake again. Perhaps if they resolved that then 2013-17 would have been much different.
With that strategy why not say that for every player every position being drafted going forward?
The Giants require better players everywhere...
I want a outstanding OL for a rookie QB and have said that multiple times. Heavy run initially and build into the more complex passing area for a rookie. Balance. If your QB deserves a second contract then you want to have a cost controlled OL which is what my previous post is about.
You also need impact defensive players. They get you off the field on third downs, close out games. They are harder to find later in the the draft imo. .
I think it is far easier to find a pro bowl center in round 5-6 (Kelce, O'Hara as a example) than it is a JPP, Tuck, Osi, etc.
Giants 2007 line Diehl (5th), RS (UDFA), O'Hara (UDFA), Snee (2nd), McKenzie (3rd).
One of the big mistakes the Giants made was carrying a very expensive OL (with a highly paid QB) and when it aged and they were not ready. They also left other positions with little talent. I'd like to avoid that mistake again. Perhaps if they resolved that then 2013-17 would have been much different.
But it's not easy to find that Pro Bowl OC in round 5.
And as a poster pointed out, how about them Colts and how did they do protecting their super QB that had to retire? So I'm going to rely on "finding that Pro Bowl OC" in round 5 rather than a mediocre or pretty good or maybe Pro Blow OC in rd's 1-3 that may end up preserving my star QB's career? That's no contest.
As far as big mistakes, the issue has been not drafting the right players.
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fix the line, they will already field an adequate defense with returning players, give jones and barkley a chance, and hope you get something from KG and toney and supplement them with some mid round picks at the position. that is a good strategy that balances rebuilding and competing next year if things break right
There isn't a lot of room for balance in the draft. When it's your turn, you can only pick one player. If you pick a worse player than one available because you want to fill a need, 3 things happen:
1. our roster as a whole is worse
2. You probably haven't filled the need anyway
3. Some other team drafted the better player and you're now at a relative disadvantage to them of your own making.
There is a lot of time to think about the draft, so people's thoughts stray towards ancillary things like need but fundamentally it's very simple, you usually just take the best player available.
You left out -
or the worst "rated" (subjective) player filled a need and made your team stronger than otherwise what would have been.,
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In comment 15532790 jerseygiant said:
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I doubt we are taking a QB this year. I doubt we are trading for Russ, Rodgers, Carr, Baker, or Deshaun.
I can't help but feel like Jones will have a Tannehill like revival in a good situation. Why not make NY that good situation.
I certainly understand why some people want to move on from him. I would just really like to see him get a chance. His interception % has dropped each year, his fumbling has decreased each year. If we can combine the improved ball security with some of the upside he showed his rookie year, I don't see why he can't succeed. He can run, he throws a nice deep ball. May be a bit slow to process, but give him a line and see what he can do. And if he falls flat next year, then we have our answer and can take a QB in 2023.
his TD:INT % his first year was 2:1. his second year it was around 1:1 (11 total TD passes and 10 ints). this year he had 10 TDs and 7 ints through 11 games before the neck injury.
the only thing he's improved is the fumbling. he's regressed badly in almost every other area.
2019 - 2.6%
2020 - 2.2%
2021 - 1.9% (not to mention this year 3 came in a game vs the Rams where he probably shouldn't have played, and 1 came on a Hail Mary before the half against New Orleans).
His interception % has decreased each year. I don't know what to tell you.
the percentage might have improved, the TD:INT ratio has not. 24 TDs and 12 INTs his rookie year. 11 TDs and 10 INTs his 2nd year. the ratio went from 2:1 to 1:1 from rookie year to 2nd year.
jones has been an ineffective quarterback who can't throw touchdown passes. the OL is not the principal reason jones has been a bad quarterback with NYG through three seasons.
Lloyd or Dean would be transformative to this D. Noticeable drop in play this year after BM went down, and noticeable improvement the year before when he was healthy. It is the most glaring need on this team other than OL.
This starts with better talent identification and then coaching as well
O line needs to get fixed. 100%. I just wish we could develop them better.
I see the Giants with a pitiful OL for several years now.
And I see top QB's coming in 2023 - at least rated high.
And I've seen young Qb';s get destroyed due to awful teams with OL in which ever a budding superstar was forced to retire.
I see an opportunity to protect them as teams like the Cowboys and Saints have done too by getting high draft OL players.
Then some of their other good players they drafted will enter FA. Do they lose some because they now have a very expensive OL. Then you face flaws that most teams contend with.
My point is continue drafting the OL every year (round 3 through UDFA) even when it is good. Volume. Depth. Competition. Have cost controlled players ready to replace someone who becomes expensive so you can keep other areas of your team strong. Much more important if you are paying your QB big money.
It is a long term strategy of solving a problem before not after. Some franchises excel at it. I hope the Giants achieve that.
because it's a very good offensive line draft.
linderbaum is the highest rated center in years. cross played in a pro style offense in college, took real pass sets, and is super smooth and athletic. he's not going to be asked to anything different than he has in college and there isn't a lot of projection in him, it's right on tape. so yes i think these 2 specifically would. if they aren't on the board, i would say yea maybe EDGE is better value there.
but let's say worst case is they are average at best as rookies but become good in year 2. many of us believe the plan is (or should be) to play jones this year and draft or acquire a QB next year. if that's the case, draft the right OL, fix the line for the long-term, throw jones to the wolves and build a situation that the next QB can step in and have a chance to thrive in
Then some of their other good players they drafted will enter FA. Do they lose some because they now have a very expensive OL. Then you face flaws that most teams contend with.
My point is continue drafting the OL every year (round 3 through UDFA) even when it is good. Volume. Depth. Competition. Have cost controlled players ready to replace someone who becomes expensive so you can keep other areas of your team strong. Much more important if you are paying your QB big money.
It is a long term strategy of solving a problem before not after. Some franchises excel at it. I hope the Giants achieve that.
i mean you can say that about almost any position. if you draft good players you have to pay them or replace them eventually.
There is no qb splashy move to be made this offseason. The draft picks are needed to improve the lines. I would go get a Mariota or something like that to compete with Jones or at least prove to be a backup that can actually function in this league.
Then hopefully the OL is addressed and we can either see that Jones is competent or we load up and go for a Stroud or Young in the next draft and let Jones contract expire.
OC - Tyler Linderbaum
OG - Zion Johnson
i'm not kidding and it's not an exaggeration. these are all worthy players of their draft picks, so let's stop with that BS about draft grades not meeting the draft slot. their grades will be there. it will be a matter of priority and this HAS to be the priority. this team needs to build the foundation for success and create a situation that a QB can step into and succeed. also as an added bonus all 3 players i mentioned are all very althetic and would allow a lot of creativity in the run and screen game.
and to be honest this team needs to put a product on the field that is watchable. the defense is and will be adequate next year with the players currently under contract. will it be top 5? no, but it's adequate. they simply must field a functioning offense and to quote The Mandalorian, THIS IS THE WAY.
I honestly wouldn't be upset if this is what happened. I like Ekwonu better than Cross mainly because I want to keep Thomas at LT and Cross is best as a LT where Ekwonu has played RT and LT and Guard.
Not for the Giants.
They struggle equally at both...
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Yes, but it far easier to replace a lineman other than a LT with a later pick then it is a a defense impact position.
Not for the Giants.
They struggle equally at both...
lol this is an accurate statement LOS
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OT - Charles Cross
OC - Tyler Linderbaum
OG - Zion Johnson
i'm not kidding and it's not an exaggeration. these are all worthy players of their draft picks, so let's stop with that BS about draft grades not meeting the draft slot. their grades will be there. it will be a matter of priority and this HAS to be the priority. this team needs to build the foundation for success and create a situation that a QB can step into and succeed. also as an added bonus all 3 players i mentioned are all very althetic and would allow a lot of creativity in the run and screen game.
and to be honest this team needs to put a product on the field that is watchable. the defense is and will be adequate next year with the players currently under contract. will it be top 5? no, but it's adequate. they simply must field a functioning offense and to quote The Mandalorian, THIS IS THE WAY.
I honestly wouldn't be upset if this is what happened. I like Ekwonu better than Cross mainly because I want to keep Thomas at LT and Cross is best as a LT where Ekwonu has played RT and LT and Guard.
i'm assuming cross can play RT at a high level in my assessment of him. maybe i'm wrong in that and yea i suppose that would involve some projection. i would not advocate moving thomas from LT to RT based on what we've seen from him this year
and i totally understand the idea of perhaps not liking linderbaum that high due to positional value. but how many times is this team going to trot out billy price, halapio, pulley, skura, etc where it derails the entire offense
I think the two biggest factors are the changes in offensive schemes in lower football and the CBA. The two a day hitting training camps, padded and hitting practices during the season has had a big impact which is why a better analysis needs to produce better methods in sourcing a OL.
The big mistake the Giants made with the last good OL is it got old and expensive fast and they had nobody to step in. They probably should have cut bait on some earliar. As much as I loved Snee and Diehl they kept them past expiration imv. 2012 draft was a big miss.
There looks to be high end depth at the position too so I can see it making sense to grab whoever falls to that pick.
Or so say BBI.... <sigh>
Without the OLine getting fixed, this team is going nowhere
Great point! If the next Ed Reed and the next Ereck Flowers are on the board, you take the next Ereck Flowers because you need to improve the Oline!!! Because we all know that there is always an all-world lineman available wheeever you pick in the draft.
<sigh>
Really what I'd like to see them do is drop a bag on whoever is the best available OL coach available. That should be your highest paid assistant.
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were successful, their OL had a good mix of high, mid, and lower round picks along with FAs and UDFA. They had premium picks like Roberts, Jumbo, Moore, Williams, mid-rounders like Diehl and also low round guys, FAs and UDFAs like Benson, Ard, Reisenberg, Seubert. And the FAs like Godfrey, McKenzie, Oates, O'Hara all fit in and were productive. I wonder who was advising on OLs during the GY and Accorsi years because it couldn't have been Reese or Gettleman depsite DG picking Thomas and finding Gates.
Really what I'd like to see them do is drop a bag on whoever is the best available OL coach available. That should be your highest paid assistant.
LOL. Kidnap Dante Scarnecchia.
Truly is. He's BBs most important assistant in my opinion.
The Garrett hire made no sense on any level.
yup. getting callahan was such an obvious no brainer move at the time too. everyone on here rightfully wanted him
Really what I'd like to see them do is drop a bag on whoever is the best available OL coach available. That should be your highest paid assistant.
Bingo. I posted this idea in a thread about the organization. This is a New York market team. They have money to spend, as you can tell from Judges cast of thousands staff. You hire the best OL coordinator you can find, pay them a couple of million a year, tell them they can buy not rent in NJ, and tell whatever new OC or HC that comes in that the OL coordinator is untouchable.
Then some of their other good players they drafted will enter FA. Do they lose some because they now have a very expensive OL. Then you face flaws that most teams contend with.
My point is continue drafting the OL every year (round 3 through UDFA) even when it is good. Volume. Depth. Competition. Have cost controlled players ready to replace someone who becomes expensive so you can keep other areas of your team strong. Much more important if you are paying your QB big money.
It is a long term strategy of solving a problem before not after. Some franchises excel at it. I hope the Giants achieve that.
In regards to your point about the OL leaving for the Colts and their dilemma - that is fine -- it's as you say with the quote you made below to another poster.
SO you take flyers in later rounds when you have these stud OL then you have a shot to hit a young Kelce while the older player leaves.
But right now, this is a rebuilding team. And the biggest most important consideration should be to protect your young QB. And a big issue is that the Giants don’t even have adequate backups. SO they can't be compared to "the normal teams." The Gants are pathetically bad. SO drafting a 5th round OL with the hopes he might turn into an All-Pro or a very good player is way too much risk for our projected 2023 franchise QB.
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"Yes, but it far easier to replace a lineman other than a LT with a later pick then it is a defense impact position."
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RT and Edge would be the ideal 1st rounders.
Obviously, the o-line is the largest problem personnel wise. the scheme is the biggest problem with the offense.
It’s pretty obvious. Unfortunately people paint with the colors of their choosing. This is my sentiment exactly. The situation devolved so far so fast after Jones got hurt it’s hard to say definitively that kitchens should not get the job but that is my opinion. They may or may not be up to judge, but it is most definitely his ass if he chooses wrong. I also feel like some position coaches need to go. There has not been much development of offense players under this regime
Tolbert (IMO) does a good job. IMO That’s about it really. I actually think he was a shurmur hire holdover
Defense did disappoint me a little this year. The slow start was devestating for the season. The 2 min thing is inexplicable.
That said they have been playing with a boot on their neck most of the season. Short feild, sudden change, no rest. NEVER in a favorable position in terms of having a lead to pass rush, or really the score never allowed them to take running the ball away from the other team.
The edge players have come along well this year and Martinez back plus some pieces I think there is the makings of a good d next year
OC - Tyler Linderbaum
OG - Zion Johnson
i'm not kidding and it's not an exaggeration. these are all worthy players of their draft picks, so let's stop with that BS about draft grades not meeting the draft slot. their grades will be there. it will be a matter of priority and this HAS to be the priority. this team needs to build the foundation for success and create a situation that a QB can step into and succeed. also as an added bonus all 3 players i mentioned are all very althetic and would allow a lot of creativity in the run and screen game.
and to be honest this team needs to put a product on the field that is watchable. the defense is and will be adequate next year with the players currently under contract. will it be top 5? no, but it's adequate. they simply must field a functioning offense and to quote The Mandalorian, THIS IS THE WAY.
I like your thinking but I would choose
Kenyon Green
Ikem Okwanu
But do trade downs first to acquire additional second rounders
Second round. Jarret Patterson. Center ND
I’m fixing the interior offensive line cause that where most of the pressure occurs