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could we please stop the constant denigration of all things

plato : 1/8/2022 12:56 pm
Giant. We are supposed to be Giant fans not blood enemies. We all know how you feel about the “worst in giant “ history from ownership, players, administration, medical staff , trainers etc. I do think you are entitled to your opinions there are however better and less mean spirited, if not less viscous ways of expressing yourselves. You are talking about and to fellow human beings, so some respect is required.

Most of you i think are too young to remember Wellington Mara as GM, or Andy Robustelli as GM, or Alex Webster as HC, or Steve Owens last days as head coach. When you to refer to current people as “worst in history” you really have no personal knowledge of Giant history by which to make that judgement.

Many of you have turned BBI, a great example of sports private enterprise, into a foul, gutter reading fan form. Just try to raise the level a bit, act like true giant fans who criticize without stooping into the gutter to do so.

Times are changing with our team, maybe we could change a bit too.
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yeah, you'd think BBI stood for  
Bill in UT : 1/8/2022 1:02 pm : link
Blast, Berate and Insult :)
But criticism of this regime is certainly in order.
...  
dancing blue bear : 1/8/2022 1:04 pm : link
“The mob believes everything it is told, provided only that it be repeated over and over. Provided too that its passions, hatreds, fears are catered to. Nor need one try to stay within the limits of plausibility: on the contrary, the grosser, the bigger, the cruder the lie, the more readily is it believed and followed. Nor is there any need to avoid contradictions: the mob never notices; needless to pretend to correlate what is said to some with what is said to others: each person or group believes only what he is told, not what anyone else is told; needless to strive for coherence: the mob has no memory; needless to pretend to any truth: the mob is radically incapable of perceiving it: the mob can never comprehend that its own interests are what is at stake.”
― Alexandre Koyré, Réflexions sur le mensonge
.  
Banks : 1/8/2022 1:07 pm : link
All good points, but I can't fault those that can't stand the misery. The team does seem lost and the keeping of Judge seems to signal more of the same in 2022.

I've been numb to the performance since mid season. I watch diligently, but the bad play doesn't affect me. I watch college and try to focus on what could be for the draft. I expect after this week is over draft threads will flood the place and things will be less miserable. If Judge gets fired, many might even be chipper
RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 1/8/2022 1:09 pm : link
In comment 15535704 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
“The mob believes everything it is told, provided only that it be repeated over and over. Provided too that its passions, hatreds, fears are catered to. Nor need one try to stay within the limits of plausibility: on the contrary, the grosser, the bigger, the cruder the lie, the more readily is it believed and followed. Nor is there any need to avoid contradictions: the mob never notices; needless to pretend to correlate what is said to some with what is said to others: each person or group believes only what he is told, not what anyone else is told; needless to strive for coherence: the mob has no memory; needless to pretend to any truth: the mob is radically incapable of perceiving it: the mob can never comprehend that its own interests are what is at stake.”
― Alexandre Koyré, Réflexions sur le mensonge

This quote describes you and the Pom Pom wavers perfectly, so it’s hysterical you posted it to poke at the other side. It is YOU that simply believes everything it is told. Whatever the Giants, Mara, Judge etc tell you, you fall for it every time.

The rest of us have visual and data based evidence on our side. You have Judge telling you everything is great! So, the joke is on you my friend.
Your point about being  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/8/2022 1:10 pm : link
civil when being critical is fair. But the team stinking is one thing. The team stinking and ownership being too prideful and set in their ways to make any substantive changes makes it that much more maddening. And the cherry on top is what seems like a concerted effort by media members associated with the team to preach to the paying customers that “they don’t know what they’re taking about.”
Guys, this is a bad stretch but the 70's were worse.  
edavisiii : 1/8/2022 1:16 pm : link
This team reminds me of Parcells 1st year when injuries devastated the roster. Scott Brunner got hurt, Phil Simms right after that and we were down to 3rd string QB and a bunch of backups. "Fire the fatman" was the cry against Bill Parcells but you could see the talent level of the roster going up. They had a great draft in 1984 and things, all of a sudden, clicked.

The 1st 3 games hurt, a lot. We had the horses to be competitive. That's on the coaching staff. Then we had a better stretch that came crashing to a halt when DJ got hurt. Yes this team we have watched for 5 weeks is putrid. The offensive staff is well offensive.

We have 11 picks. It can be turned around with one draft and health. FIX THE OL!!!!!!! PLEASE!
Re "Could We Please Stop..."  
clatterbuck : 1/8/2022 1:20 pm : link
Wholeheartedly agree. Thank you.
No  
Sammo85 : 1/8/2022 1:22 pm : link
And I’m a Socrates guy myself, just for the record.
Fans are upset  
cokeduplt : 1/8/2022 1:22 pm : link
The team is and has been awful for a while. This is a place to vent. Maybe don’t take a message board personally. Everyone is frustrated rightfully so.
in b4  
bluefin : 1/8/2022 1:23 pm : link
bootlicking redcoat
RE: Guys, this is a bad stretch but the 70's were worse.  
Sammo85 : 1/8/2022 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15535717 edavisiii said:
Quote:
This team reminds me of Parcells 1st year when injuries devastated the roster. Scott Brunner got hurt, Phil Simms right after that and we were down to 3rd string QB and a bunch of backups. "Fire the fatman" was the cry against Bill Parcells but you could see the talent level of the roster going up. They had a great draft in 1984 and things, all of a sudden, clicked.

The 1st 3 games hurt, a lot. We had the horses to be competitive. That's on the coaching staff. Then we had a better stretch that came crashing to a halt when DJ got hurt. Yes this team we have watched for 5 weeks is putrid. The offensive staff is well offensive.

We have 11 picks. It can be turned around with one draft and health. FIX THE OL!!!!!!! PLEASE!


Sorry. I don’t agree. We don’t have a foundation. Only the propaganda speak that we do. Parcells had a good foundation and from Perkins efforts. It still took 2-3 years for those results.

Giants have problems all over offense not just with coaching but the roster itself.

This is a 2-3 year rebuild still after 2-3 years of failed rebuilding. So we have to rebuild the rebuild.
i've actually seen less of posters berating each other  
japanhead : 1/8/2022 1:24 pm : link
than in the recent past (except for that ryanmkeane guy, who deserves everything he gets, and who has trolled and harassed long-time posters like GoTerps relentlessly).

Ironically, the biggest berater and denigrater on the site was FMiC, and he was a rah-rah pom-poms kind of guy and since his self-imposed exile things have been a lot more civil overall.

you have the occasional dust-up, but most of the virtiol and nastiness has been reserved for judge, gettleman, mara and the rest of the front office.

all it is is venting.

your holier-than-thou "be best" post here kind of stinks of pomposity.
RE: ...  
Festina Lente : 1/8/2022 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15535704 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
“The mob believes everything it is told, provided only that it be repeated over and over. Provided too that its passions, hatreds, fears are catered to. Nor need one try to stay within the limits of plausibility: on the contrary, the grosser, the bigger, the cruder the lie, the more readily is it believed and followed. Nor is there any need to avoid contradictions: the mob never notices; needless to pretend to correlate what is said to some with what is said to others: each person or group believes only what he is told, not what anyone else is told; needless to strive for coherence: the mob has no memory; needless to pretend to any truth: the mob is radically incapable of perceiving it: the mob can never comprehend that its own interests are what is at stake.”
― Alexandre Koyré, Réflexions sur le mensonge
.

Fascinating quote which I've never come across. Thank you. I believe it is a bit extreme in parts of is generalizations but there are some truths in it.
A few people have been  
Gman11 : 1/8/2022 1:26 pm : link
over the top, but I think most of us have become ambivalent. I know I've gotten so I really have no interest in following the off season. I don't care who they sign. I don't care who they draft. I don't care who they hire and fire. Just start winning some games next September. If they don't then I'll go play pickup soccer or pickleball or go bowling or really anything other than watch this crap again.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/8/2022 1:32 pm : link
I don't see a ton of BBIers going after one another. It's more anger @ the clowns running this organization & that-IMO-is 100% justified after the garbage we've been subjected to this last decade.
 
christian : 1/8/2022 1:32 pm : link
I don’t think a lot of you would have survived BBI in the 90s.
I think what you are feeling it’s normally nice and  
NoGainDayne : 1/8/2022 1:38 pm : link
warm and cozy for anyone wishing to bootlick the organization. It’s gotten less easy and friendly to do it and most of the attack dogs from the team have wandered off. Sorry, as long as what you are doing is covering for and apologizing for horrible management, it’s not going to be a warm and cozy place for you.

Also is plato and platos the same? They talk very similarly
Its a 4-13 sandwich......  
thrunthrublue : 1/8/2022 1:39 pm : link
and we all have to take a bite out of it.........."We will play fast, we will play downhill, we will play aggressive. We will punch you in the nose for 60 minutes, we will play every play like it has a history and life of its own, with a relentless, competitive attitude. We will play fundamentally sound, we will not beat ourselves. That is our mission right here". Unfortunately, JJ did not deliver on ANY of his opening salvo of bullshit, which turned into a stinky monsoon of incompetence in every phase. DG is gone.......JJ should follow suit.
RE: RE: ...  
joeinpa : 1/8/2022 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15535709 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15535704 dancing blue bear said:


Quote:


“The mob believes everything it is told, provided only that it be repeated over and over. Provided too that its passions, hatreds, fears are catered to. Nor need one try to stay within the limits of plausibility: on the contrary, the grosser, the bigger, the cruder the lie, the more readily is it believed and followed. Nor is there any need to avoid contradictions: the mob never notices; needless to pretend to correlate what is said to some with what is said to others: each person or group believes only what he is told, not what anyone else is told; needless to strive for coherence: the mob has no memory; needless to pretend to any truth: the mob is radically incapable of perceiving it: the mob can never comprehend that its own interests are what is at stake.”
― Alexandre Koyré, Réflexions sur le mensonge


This quote describes you and the Pom Pom wavers perfectly, so it’s hysterical you posted it to poke at the other side. It is YOU that simply believes everything it is told. Whatever the Giants, Mara, Judge etc tell you, you fall for it every time.

The rest of us have visual and data based evidence on our side. You have Judge telling you everything is great! So, the joke is on you my friend.


I believe this quote is defining “mob mentality “ and not distinguishing between mobs.

Strange...  
bw in dc : 1/8/2022 1:46 pm : link
because I think BBI is fairly united lately.

More and more are seeing the light and have reached, finally, a breaking point with this incompetent organization.

I say welcome aboard.
.  
Go Terps : 1/8/2022 1:49 pm : link
Some people could watch a plane fly into a mountain and be unable to admit the plane crashed.

The Giants are a disaster. Any other read on them is fiction.
Couldn't you just make a thread for positive things?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/8/2022 1:53 pm : link
And not read the topics you don't want to see?
RE: Couldn't you just make a thread for positive things?  
NoGainDayne : 1/8/2022 1:56 pm : link
In comment 15535783 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And not read the topics you don't want to see?


Lol what are they going to talk about?

“I love how long JJ’s press conferences are!!”
RE: Strange...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/8/2022 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15535769 bw in dc said:
Quote:
because I think BBI is fairly united lately.

More and more are seeing the light and have reached, finally, a breaking point with this incompetent organization.

I say welcome aboard.


Yeah, I think the same...95%ish of us have concluded this organization is a trainwreck.
If you want to talk  
cokeduplt : 1/8/2022 1:58 pm : link
About positive things regarding the giants right now the conversation would be extremely short.
Why do you feel the need to infringe on speech?  
Producer : 1/8/2022 2:03 pm : link
I'm not a fan of personally attacking people, whether they are Giants or other board-members, but I choose to ignore it.

I think the OP is guilty of standing by while others unnecessarily smeared me with personal attacks when I was simply making a football point.

I think the OP is a selfish and narcissistic. Can we just go back to when *I liked it better*. Can't we have speech that *I approve of*. Please don't smear the Giants but you may smear others *as long as I am not offended*.

Why was it better before? Maybe it was because the Giants were winning and there weren't a lot of legitimate complaints.

Now there are a lot of legitimate complaints and people are pissed.

Again, I don't agree with smearing people with curses and epithets, but I'm an adult so I choose to ignore it.

You can do the same.
You Build a House  
Samiam : 1/8/2022 2:05 pm : link
You buy expensive furniture and appliances and the like but you did a terrible job on the foundation of the house. The house is sinking and all the money you spent is going down the drain because of the foundation. This may be an oversimplification but to me, the Giants OL is the foundation that undermines everything. With this shitty OL, we dont know if Jones can be an effective starter; I’m pretty sure he’s not a franchise QB but neither is Tannehill. The running game is bad to nonexistent. The pass blocking will not support deep patterns so the shiny toys aren’t there even when healthy. The defense suffers because we have an offense that can’t score TDs or control the clock and give the defense time to rest.

Now, there are other problems for sure but every team has problems. But, I thought the team screwed up big time by not improving the OL starters and depth before the season started and I don’t buy the Zack Fulton excuses or injury excuses. What happened this year was predictable. Fix the damn OL and see what happens. We won’t have a great OL next year; I’m fine with that. But we can’t have one that sucks like this because that is the crumbling foundation.
RE: yeah, you'd think BBI stood for  
River Mike : 1/8/2022 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15535703 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Blast, Berate and Insult :)
But criticism of this regime is certainly in order.


Criticism is more than well warranted, but name calling, insults, over the top vitriol and intense pure hatred just sap the spirit right out ofthe website. Of course it's no secret that this is sadly just the way of the internet.
I understand the frustration  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/8/2022 2:05 pm : link
but there has been a lot juvenile nonsense atound here recently. Grown men acting like children.
RE: You Build a House  
Producer : 1/8/2022 2:09 pm : link
In comment 15535798 Samiam said:
Quote:
You buy expensive furniture and appliances and the like but you did a terrible job on the foundation of the house. The house is sinking and all the money you spent is going down the drain because of the foundation. This may be an oversimplification but to me, the Giants OL is the foundation that undermines everything. With this shitty OL, we dont know if Jones can be an effective starter; I’m pretty sure he’s not a franchise QB but neither is Tannehill. The running game is bad to nonexistent. The pass blocking will not support deep patterns so the shiny toys aren’t there even when healthy. The defense suffers because we have an offense that can’t score TDs or control the clock and give the defense time to rest.

Now, there are other problems for sure but every team has problems. But, I thought the team screwed up big time by not improving the OL starters and depth before the season started and I don’t buy the Zack Fulton excuses or injury excuses. What happened this year was predictable. Fix the damn OL and see what happens. We won’t have a great OL next year; I’m fine with that. But we can’t have one that sucks like this because that is the crumbling foundation.


Well to many the foundational problem is the QB. So don't assume everybody is in agreement with you. The OL is bad, but the QB is a disaster. And every time someone says they *don't know about Jones* or they *can't evaluate Jones*. That's the evaluation. If he isn't great, he isn't good enough, even with this supporting cast.
I think the point is people are whining about the  
NoGainDayne : 1/8/2022 2:10 pm : link
“Juvenile nonsense” because it’s directed at people who are hopeless team loyalists with no grip on reality. It was fine to all of you when it was people who had valid doubts about the team getting personally attacked much worse than this to be honest
RE: I think the point is people are whining about the  
Producer : 1/8/2022 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15535806 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
“Juvenile nonsense” because it’s directed at people who are hopeless team loyalists with no grip on reality. It was fine to all of you when it was people who had valid doubts about the team getting personally attacked much worse than this to be honest


Exactly. I didn't see Plato rush to my defense when I was called a *moron* for daring to say that great QBs are born with talent, not developed. So much vitriol was spewed at people for making banal points like that.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
BMac : 1/8/2022 2:18 pm : link
In comment 15535766 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15535709 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15535704 dancing blue bear said:


Quote:


“The mob believes everything it is told, provided only that it be repeated over and over. Provided too that its passions, hatreds, fears are catered to. Nor need one try to stay within the limits of plausibility: on the contrary, the grosser, the bigger, the cruder the lie, the more readily is it believed and followed. Nor is there any need to avoid contradictions: the mob never notices; needless to pretend to correlate what is said to some with what is said to others: each person or group believes only what he is told, not what anyone else is told; needless to strive for coherence: the mob has no memory; needless to pretend to any truth: the mob is radically incapable of perceiving it: the mob can never comprehend that its own interests are what is at stake.”
― Alexandre Koyré, Réflexions sur le mensonge


This quote describes you and the Pom Pom wavers perfectly, so it’s hysterical you posted it to poke at the other side. It is YOU that simply believes everything it is told. Whatever the Giants, Mara, Judge etc tell you, you fall for it every time.

The rest of us have visual and data based evidence on our side. You have Judge telling you everything is great! So, the joke is on you my friend.



I believe this quote is defining “mob mentality “ and not distinguishing between mobs.


Exactly correct on the definition. I've been looking for this book in an English edition (I know one was published in 1945), but without success.
BBI is a microcosm of modern society  
JonC : 1/8/2022 2:19 pm : link
polarized, angry, unable to understand the opposite viewpoint, demand instant gratification, lacking accurate big picture perspective, etc.

I just do my best to ignore it and the posters who constantly propel it.
RE: RE: Couldn't you just make a thread for positive things?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/8/2022 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15535786 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15535783 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


And not read the topics you don't want to see?



Lol what are they going to talk about?

“I love how long JJ’s press conferences are!!”


I'm just saying you can opt out of "negative talk" any time you want. Look at the thread title and move on.
Plato is not the same as “Platos” also, the Socrates we think we know  
plato : 1/8/2022 2:21 pm : link
is probably “Plato”. I am not a bootlicker nor defender of an organization which has appeared to have lost its way or be fixed in its ways, even if unsuccessful.
I am a defender of free speech but i believe in a.public forum there is a standard of decency and respect that we owe each other, Eric, and yes Dave Gettleman and the Mara family. There is plenty to be unhappy about with the Giants (and lots of other things in the world) and to even be angry about. But it all can be expressed in a civil adult manner, even though we live in a culture that doesn’t necessarily value that.
RE: BBI is a microcosm of modern society  
Producer : 1/8/2022 2:23 pm : link
In comment 15535816 JonC said:
Quote:
polarized, angry, unable to understand the opposite viewpoint, demand instant gratification, lacking accurate big picture perspective, etc.

I just do my best to ignore it and the posters who constantly propel it.


I respect your pov and agree with most of what you say, but the instant gratification observation needs a nuanced unpacking. Some think the Giants move at a glacial pace and reject the notion that NFL rebuilds in 2021 need to take 3 to 5 years.
I think it ends....  
kelly : 1/8/2022 2:24 pm : link
When the Mara's fall on their sword and apologize for their missteps and take the appropriate actions to correct what has gone wrong.

I think fans are very angry about not knowing how this organization is run and who is responsible for what.

Fans are frustrated and rightfully so. Ten years of futility.
Sammo 85...just said it reminded me. Yes, Perkins did help build  
edavisiii : 1/8/2022 2:24 pm : link
Just think we can improve dramatically with an OL and a passrusher. But, good point.
RE: Plato is not the same as “Platos” also, the Socrates we think we know  
Producer : 1/8/2022 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15535820 plato said:
Quote:
is probably “Plato”. I am not a bootlicker nor defender of an organization which has appeared to have lost its way or be fixed in its ways, even if unsuccessful.
I am a defender of free speech but i believe in a.public forum there is a standard of decency and respect that we owe each other, Eric, and yes Dave Gettleman and the Mara family. There is plenty to be unhappy about with the Giants (and lots of other things in the world) and to even be angry about. But it all can be expressed in a civil adult manner, even though we live in a culture that doesn’t necessarily value that.


The problem when you police speech is that you wind up hurting people who are not out of line or don't have mal intent. It happens here often and they aren't policing that much. If it concerns you so much, you can ignore it, or remind posters that you understand their pov but could they not be so insulting.
RE: RE: yeah, you'd think BBI stood for  
Dennis : 1/8/2022 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15535800 River Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15535703 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


Blast, Berate and Insult :)
But criticism of this regime is certainly in order.



Criticism is more than well warranted, but name calling, insults, over the top vitriol and intense pure hatred just sap the spirit right out ofthe website. Of course it's no secret that this is sadly just the way of the internet.


+1. Totally agree.
Fans can be upset…  
Chris in Philly : 1/8/2022 2:31 pm : link
Fans can protest. Fans can complain. Fans can do all those things. And the way this team is going, fans should do those things.

But the bloodlust displayed around here in recent days is childish and embarrassing. We used to live under the naive notion that Giants fans were somehow better than other teams’ fan. Smarter. Classier. That mirage has fully disappeared. It has looked like an Eagles gan group lately.
RE: RE: Couldn't you just make a thread for positive things?  
NoGainDayne : 1/8/2022 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15535786 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15535783 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


And not read the topics you don't want to see?



Lol what are they going to talk about?

“I love how long JJ’s press conferences are!!”


I was joking. I totally agree, I opt out of threads based on title all the time
We have entered year 10  
Costy16 : 1/8/2022 2:42 pm : link
Of being a total laughingstock with a season that is over by Columbus Day.

The fans have every right to be as angry as they are. There is nothing redeeming about this franchise right now except for maybe Andrew Thomas.
This cry for class and kindness...  
bw in dc : 1/8/2022 3:11 pm : link
towards millionaires who have failed at their jobs to provide an entertaining and successful product for their consumer base may be one of the dafter things I've seen at BBI on a long time.

Hey Jints Central. We appreciate your classiness, honesty and effort. Sure, results are important, but trying hard is more important to us.

Sincerely,
The Smartest and Classiest Fans in the NFL


PS - JFC

or this:  
arniefez : 1/8/2022 3:23 pm : link
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”


― George Orwell, 1984
People's patience is boiling over  
AcesUp : 1/8/2022 3:25 pm : link
and the mob may be necessary to unstick the people making decisions. It's justifiable and it will pass in the offseason with whatever optimism comes with the new GM hire (assuming it isn't Abrams). If it bothers, you should probably stay off the internet. It's not just a BBI thing.
RE: Fans can be upset…  
Go Terps : 1/8/2022 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15535833 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Fans can protest. Fans can complain. Fans can do all those things. And the way this team is going, fans should do those things.

But the bloodlust displayed around here in recent days is childish and embarrassing. We used to live under the naive notion that Giants fans were somehow better than other teams’ fan. Smarter. Classier. That mirage has fully disappeared. It has looked like an Eagles gan group lately.


RE: Your point about being  
giantstock : 1/8/2022 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15535711 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
civil when being critical is fair. But the team stinking is one thing. The team stinking and ownership being too prideful and set in their ways to make any substantive changes makes it that much more maddening. And the cherry on top is what seems like a concerted effort by media members associated with the team to preach to the paying customers that “they don’t know what they’re taking about.”


+1
It is a chat forum  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/8/2022 3:27 pm : link
it is what it is. Just about everywhere you tune into nowadays seems to be people are just mad and disagree.

I could do without the name calling and wishing horrific things on people for a different viewpoint but that is not going to change. Still a lot of good viewpoints from posters and I find you can pick up some good knowledge if you weed through the crap.

I think Stephen Covey's "Seek first to understood before being understood" is not something you will see on this type of venue.
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