I think the press conference last week took him from “still young and learning” to “this guy is embarrassing the team on a national stage.” It all depends on just how stubborn Mara is.
Usually we all know when the coach gets fired like McAddo or Shurmur. Not this time. There's not a consensus out there so Judge gets one more year with: A rebuilt OL (Hopefully) and anew OC with an offense that works.
If we falter then there will be a consensus that he's gone.
It will be a new coach, new QB, etc....
I hope the decision has already been made either way. Letting it hang on the balance of this game with the body of work already available speaks to looking for a reason to retain him rather than acknowledging all the reasons to end it.
Despite my recent venting I'm typically an optimist. Pretty much every offseason for the past decade I've been in the "A few things break their way and they're a wildcard team" camp. And it's impossible for me to envision a scenario where this team doesn't stumble out of the gate to another 1-6 start. I'd bet money that if he isn't fired today he'll be fired by wk 10 next year.
In that organization watched a team of backups put up 26 points against the Cowboys while we put up 3 with a backup QB, yes he is history. I assume they ate brie and toasted their good fortune so no we get to keep suffering.
I got info from a reliable source saying he wasn’t safe
and I still think there is no way they can him. Mara is stupid enough to believe his biggest strength is his “stability” and he is also dumb enough to believe that just because firing McAddo and Shurmur after two heads is good enough reason to give more time to this incompetent used car salesman. I do think Mara will mull it over more than I thought two weeks ago, but in the end I think he keeps him.
I'm going to hedge because our incompetent owner will overemphasize today's game IF we win or stay competitive. Mara will stupidly fall into old habit of thinking a win or close game means the team thinks the world of Judge, and that feeling will miraculously convey to next year. In which case, unfortunately, Judge stays.
If we get rolled, which I hope happens, than Mara will have no choice, especially when you compound everything that has occurred the last month. And Judge will be out.
Judge, whatever happens today, has done NOTHING consistently well to warrant anything but removal. This team did NOT show signs of improvement that Mara said he needed to see.
They should, but Mara will torture himself and again let past rule the present to ruin the near future.
He will convince him he needs more time and we will be sitting here micromanaging a couple more wins in 2023 as reason for a 4th year to have to tear it down again in 2024-2025.
Was over a few weeks ago. Judge was still in the plans but this past week and half has gone very badly for him. If today gets ugly, I don’t see how he returns. If the team looks good and still fighting it’s not going to help our cause.
I'm going to hedge because our incompetent owner will overemphasize today's game IF we win or stay competitive. Mara will stupidly fall into old habit of thinking a win or close game means the team thinks the world of Judge, and that feeling will miraculously convey to next year. In which case, unfortunately, Judge stays.
If we get rolled, which I hope happens, than Mara will have no choice, especially when you compound everything that has occurred the last month. And Judge will be out.
Judge, whatever happens today, has done NOTHING consistently well to warrant anything but removal. This team did NOT show signs of improvement that Mara said he needed to see.
How can Judge be retained?
I disagree, that Mara will put any emphasis on a late season win if they have decided to move on, it didn’t save Shurmur.
But if they are on the fence another embarrassing day could result in him being gone.
Was over a few weeks ago. Judge was still in the plans but this past week and half has gone very badly for him. If today gets ugly, I don’t see how he returns. If the team looks good and still fighting it’s not going to help our cause.
I think Mara has decided to take an easy way out and not make the decision this year. He will hire a new GM to let 2023 be a relationship year with new GM taking responsibility and on Judge and if new GM wants a new HC he will let him make the call next off-season.
This game means nothing. He’s coming back unfortunately.
The Judge era has been far worse than the McAdoo and Shurmur. GM candidates are not going to agree with Judge being staying as HC and will refuse the position, unless they have the choice. Judge has proven that he is in capable of coaching at the head coaching level. Given the situation, and Tisch’s recent comments along with the media and fan pressure, Mara is going to cave and choose a GM from the outside who wants more of free reign.
RE: RE: The plan for DG to transition to Judge and Abrams
Was over a few weeks ago. Judge was still in the plans but this past week and half has gone very badly for him. If today gets ugly, I don’t see how he returns. If the team looks good and still fighting it’s not going to help our cause.
I think Mara has decided to take an easy way out and not make the decision this year. He will hire a new GM to let 2023 be a relationship year with new GM taking responsibility and on Judge and if new GM wants a new HC he will let him make the call next off-season.
This game means nothing. He’s coming back unfortunately.
This. They will promote Abrams and keep Judge in a last ditch effort to salvage this regime. When 2022 is a more of the same, next year on this day we will be predicting the new GM and new Head Coach. I have resigned myself to this reality.
And it’s for the use of his timeouts. I just can’t understand how a NFL head coach can not properly use timeouts. And I was a big Judge supporter last year, despite his poor record. But this year, not so much.
If Mara is really letting his decision be influenced by a week 18 game against another bottom feeder whose coach already said they're going to be playing the 2nd and 3rd string then we really are as screwed as we thought.
The Judge era has been far worse than the McAdoo and Shurmur. GM candidates are not going to agree with Judge being staying as HC and will refuse the position, unless they have the choice. Judge has proven that he is in capable of coaching at the head coaching level. Given the situation, and Tisch’s recent comments along with the media and fan pressure, Mara is going to cave and choose a GM from the outside who wants more of free reign.
I think it will be a fake "outsider" like Scott Pioli.
Probably 55-45 though. It should be a bit more obvious.
Injuries and lack of talent are one thing. But offensively, the execution is awful, the game plan is awful, the situational football is historically bad, and the scheme is awful.
Judge may not be an offensive mind by trade, but that abysmal offense is his responsibility. Unacceptable in today’s NFL.
Hiring Graham as DC is the one positive mark that Judge has had but not nearly enough to overcome
Ultimately yes he will get fired by the new GM who selects his HC
Because Mara loves the "Culture Club" he is building plus he doesnt want to pay him to sit at home.
I’m not sure paying the coach has an bearing on whether Mara decides to keep him. This is the same owner who paid Odell 20mil to play in Cleveland. He also paid McAdoo and Shurmur after they were fired...
As bad as they are, the Giants are still very profitable. Mara will be just fine dishing out 4-5mil, or w/e JJ’s salary is.
He will not be fired but, for fan relations purposes only,
Mara will leave the door open slightly that he could still be let go if that’s what the new gm wants. Speculation will continue but Judge will ultimately be retained for next season as one of the secret requirements from Mara for the new gm will be affirming that Judge is the head coach on day one. BBI will argue for the next year about whether this actually was a secret requirement.
By time a GM is hired, the pool of viable HC candidates will likely have dried up. I think Judge gets to "prove it" next year to new GM. Even a GM with supposed ties to Judge (Ossenfort, Ziegler, e.g.) won't be able tolerate another double-digit loss season. If Giants show marked improvement (wins/losses) not just "process," he can continue his program. Otherwise, he's gone. So, I doubt there will be instant gratification for those that want him gone.
I'm going to hedge because our incompetent owner will overemphasize today's game IF we win or stay competitive. Mara will stupidly fall into old habit of thinking a win or close game means the team thinks the world of Judge, and that feeling will miraculously convey to next year. In which case, unfortunately, Judge stays.
If we get rolled, which I hope happens, than Mara will have no choice, especially when you compound everything that has occurred the last month. And Judge will be out.
Judge, whatever happens today, has done NOTHING consistently well to warrant anything but removal. This team did NOT show signs of improvement that Mara said he needed to see.
How can Judge be retained?
I disagree, that Mara will put any emphasis on a late season win if they have decided to move on, it didn’t save Shurmur.
But if they are on the fence another embarrassing day could result in him being gone.
I hear you, but the notion that Mara - apparently - doesn't want to fire a third coach after two years may be Judge's firewall, especially if we win or stay competitive today.
I was for giving him a third year BEFORE the crazy presser. Not so much now.
In a perfect world it would be solely up to the new GM, who has to be an outside hire. But the Mara cabal will somehow manage to screw the pooch once again.
has been in favor of MAJOR changes with the whole organization for sometime now, not just the GM. Does he step up to the plate and get the Maras to step away? Now that IS a question!
Him fired, nuke this whole front office and restart, but will it happen? NOPE!!
I thought after the dark years of the mid 60’s & 70’s and the return to Giants’ football, we’d never see another run like we have had these past few years, but it appears there’s no way out, but for a complete overhaul. No former execs coming back, clean house!!
but there has to be a proviso that he get some game management help. I'd like to think he'll do some serious self scouting, because this can't go on again if he's retained.
I think Judge's fate is sealed. There's no way to sell this guy to the fanbase, and Mara has to face the press. Firing Judge also opens up the GM pool, since there won't be a requirement to keep Judge for next year.
If JM keeps Judge, he's facing a disaster next year. The team will stink anyway, and there's a good possibility Judge will have to be fired after a 0-5 or 1-7 start. Firing Judge buys the time needed, as fans will accept a rebuild with a new coach.
But should.
1/2 of GM candidates generally mentioned have ties to him, not even counting Abrams.
So unless JJ further embarrasses the organization today with his weird postgame comments, it won’t be a Dodds coming in and having the pleasure.
has been in favor of MAJOR changes with the whole organization for sometime now, not just the GM. Does he step up to the plate and get the Maras to step away? Now that IS a question!
Tisch is a dove. I get the sense Mara has no problem getting Tisch in line.
Says fire him…..but nyg ten years of pitiful play has become their brand, so owners most likely keep JJ who can deliver #1 pick in 2023…..then….he goes and let’s hope for another LT with 2023 pick.
Judges inner workings teamfoundation wins today. Judge now runs the Giants organization and he will help determine which GM will work under him? Could we at least wait for his post game press conference before the coronation?
certainly hope so, but don't think he will be. I've admittedly become a serious pessimist when it comes to expecting the Maras to admit mistakes and do what has to be done to begin fixing the team.
If we falter then there will be a consensus that he's gone.
It will be a new coach, new QB, etc....
Unless they lose by 50 today....
They can move on from Jones, Abrams, and Judge all in one fell swoop next year.
Judge - ( New Window )
I am 52/48 he gets canned.
I know what everyone's opinion of Zimmer is, but he is a coach who has proven he can win.
His issues with finishing games could be fixed by having a game quality coach or giving that duty to his OC.
But the man gets his team to play hard game in and game out.
Can this troll be banned?
Unless they lose by 50 today....
I think this is Mara's thinking. He'll look for any positive to not pull the plug on Judge.
Despite my recent venting I'm typically an optimist. Pretty much every offseason for the past decade I've been in the "A few things break their way and they're a wildcard team" camp. And it's impossible for me to envision a scenario where this team doesn't stumble out of the gate to another 1-6 start. I'd bet money that if he isn't fired today he'll be fired by wk 10 next year.
Gettleman is the bi-annual sacrificial lamb.
If we get rolled, which I hope happens, than Mara will have no choice, especially when you compound everything that has occurred the last month. And Judge will be out.
Judge, whatever happens today, has done NOTHING consistently well to warrant anything but removal. This team did NOT show signs of improvement that Mara said he needed to see.
How can Judge be retained?
He will convince him he needs more time and we will be sitting here micromanaging a couple more wins in 2023 as reason for a 4th year to have to tear it down again in 2024-2025.
Lost decade incoming.
If we get rolled, which I hope happens, than Mara will have no choice, especially when you compound everything that has occurred the last month. And Judge will be out.
Judge, whatever happens today, has done NOTHING consistently well to warrant anything but removal. This team did NOT show signs of improvement that Mara said he needed to see.
How can Judge be retained?
I disagree, that Mara will put any emphasis on a late season win if they have decided to move on, it didn’t save Shurmur.
But if they are on the fence another embarrassing day could result in him being gone.
I think Mara has decided to take an easy way out and not make the decision this year. He will hire a new GM to let 2023 be a relationship year with new GM taking responsibility and on Judge and if new GM wants a new HC he will let him make the call next off-season.
This game means nothing. He’s coming back unfortunately.
Quote:
Was over a few weeks ago. Judge was still in the plans but this past week and half has gone very badly for him. If today gets ugly, I don’t see how he returns. If the team looks good and still fighting it’s not going to help our cause.
I think Mara has decided to take an easy way out and not make the decision this year. He will hire a new GM to let 2023 be a relationship year with new GM taking responsibility and on Judge and if new GM wants a new HC he will let him make the call next off-season.
This game means nothing. He’s coming back unfortunately.
This. They will promote Abrams and keep Judge in a last ditch effort to salvage this regime. When 2022 is a more of the same, next year on this day we will be predicting the new GM and new Head Coach. I have resigned myself to this reality.
Which does not bode well for the organization
If Mara is really letting his decision be influenced by a week 18 game against another bottom feeder whose coach already said they're going to be playing the 2nd and 3rd string then we really are as screwed as we thought.
I think it will be a fake "outsider" like Scott Pioli.
His coaches can't prepare the players, his in-game decision making and usage of timeouts are embarrassing.
Then, the press conferences...
The man is in way over his head obviously. This was not the job for Joe Judge.
Injuries and lack of talent are one thing. But offensively, the execution is awful, the game plan is awful, the situational football is historically bad, and the scheme is awful.
Judge may not be an offensive mind by trade, but that abysmal offense is his responsibility. Unacceptable in today’s NFL.
Hiring Graham as DC is the one positive mark that Judge has had but not nearly enough to overcome
I’m not sure paying the coach has an bearing on whether Mara decides to keep him. This is the same owner who paid Odell 20mil to play in Cleveland. He also paid McAdoo and Shurmur after they were fired...
As bad as they are, the Giants are still very profitable. Mara will be just fine dishing out 4-5mil, or w/e JJ’s salary is.
Quote:
I'm going to hedge because our incompetent owner will overemphasize today's game IF we win or stay competitive. Mara will stupidly fall into old habit of thinking a win or close game means the team thinks the world of Judge, and that feeling will miraculously convey to next year. In which case, unfortunately, Judge stays.
If we get rolled, which I hope happens, than Mara will have no choice, especially when you compound everything that has occurred the last month. And Judge will be out.
Judge, whatever happens today, has done NOTHING consistently well to warrant anything but removal. This team did NOT show signs of improvement that Mara said he needed to see.
How can Judge be retained?
I disagree, that Mara will put any emphasis on a late season win if they have decided to move on, it didn’t save Shurmur.
But if they are on the fence another embarrassing day could result in him being gone.
I hear you, but the notion that Mara - apparently - doesn't want to fire a third coach after two years may be Judge's firewall, especially if we win or stay competitive today.
In a perfect world it would be solely up to the new GM, who has to be an outside hire. But the Mara cabal will somehow manage to screw the pooch once again.
That makes absolutely no sense. You want to keep the guy who hired the guys you want fired?
I thought after the dark years of the mid 60’s & 70’s and the return to Giants’ football, we’d never see another run like we have had these past few years, but it appears there’s no way out, but for a complete overhaul. No former execs coming back, clean house!!
If JM keeps Judge, he's facing a disaster next year. The team will stink anyway, and there's a good possibility Judge will have to be fired after a 0-5 or 1-7 start. Firing Judge buys the time needed, as fans will accept a rebuild with a new coach.
1/2 of GM candidates generally mentioned have ties to him, not even counting Abrams.
So unless JJ further embarrasses the organization today with his weird postgame comments, it won’t be a Dodds coming in and having the pleasure.
Tisch is a dove. I get the sense Mara has no problem getting Tisch in line.
So I'll believe it when I see it.
Video and other info submitted to espn connection, cleared for publication later this week.
Link - ( New Window )
It shouldn't be this bad.
The GM search and onboarding is going to take a couple weeks. But they conceivably could fire Judge now and give new GM clean slate from get go.
it would probably be a no if it was for another first time HC.
Doug Pederson is a maybe.
Changing my vote. Taking a knee on 3rd down? That gets Judge fired.
Emotions don't matter folks