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Glazer 11pm update

Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2022 11:07 pm
I believe Giants brass is torn on what to do w Joe Judge bc of revolving door of coaches they’ve had in recent years. Have hesitation to move on bc they’d add to that revolving door. At same time I have heard a ton of frustration inside that locker room. Not a little, a lot

@jayglazer
just believe your eyes Mara  
blueblood : 1/9/2022 11:08 pm : link
he is not a good coach. move on.
Are Giants brass watching these games?  
eric2425ny : 1/9/2022 11:09 pm : link
Lol, the double QB sneak today should have sealed the deal.
Keeping a coach because  
djstat : 1/9/2022 11:09 pm : link
You’ve made other boneheaded hires is a poor reason to keep him. This franchise is a disgrace. Fire judge, DG and your personnel department including you Chris and your nephew. Hire a team president and disappear
Chickenshit logic  
j_rud : 1/9/2022 11:10 pm : link
Judge is the perfect coach for ownership. Cowards.
...  
Optimus-NY : 1/9/2022 11:10 pm : link
I have a strong feeling that they’re going to fire  
Anakim : 1/9/2022 11:11 pm : link
Judge but promote Patrick Graham to HC
A young NFL head coach  
JPinstripes : 1/9/2022 11:12 pm : link
should be either an offensive guru or a defensive guru - Judge was neither and it showed.
RE: I have a strong feeling that they’re going to fire  
jvm52106 : 1/9/2022 11:13 pm : link
In comment 15540374 Anakim said:
Quote:
Judge but promote Patrick Graham to HC


Hell no
Would be nice to know that John Mara  
Mike from Ohio : 1/9/2022 11:13 pm : link
was making this decision based on facts and results instead of “well gee, we’ve fired a lot of coaches, so maybe we should just keep this guy.” Unfortunately I think Mara is probably more worried about the revolving door look than all of the losing.

Maybe start with the realization that there is a revolving door not because you were impatient, but you are making decisions you are not qualified to make and so they will be wrong more often than they are right?
John Mara must be a colossal fool  
Go Terps : 1/9/2022 11:13 pm : link
.
RE: ...  
GF1080 : 1/9/2022 11:14 pm : link
In comment 15540373 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:


Not all heroes wear capes, but brown bags.
It really is the dumbest logic  
Essex : 1/9/2022 11:14 pm : link
To keep a coach who stinks because you messed up twice before. Maybe this means you should delegate this operation to someone who has better judgment, but it doesn’t mean you should double down on an error because you have made similar once before. Mara needs to recognize his failures and hire a great football operations head and then get out of the way. He doesn’t need to double down on Judge
.  
Go Terps : 1/9/2022 11:15 pm : link
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.
RE: RE: ...  
eric2425ny : 1/9/2022 11:15 pm : link
In comment 15540382 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540373 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:






Not all heroes wear capes, but brown bags.


Lol, I love the fountain Pepsi image on the side of the bag.
RE: Keeping a coach because  
Hades07 : 1/9/2022 11:16 pm : link
In comment 15540370 djstat said:
Quote:
You’ve made other boneheaded hires is a poor reason to keep him. This franchise is a disgrace. Fire judge, DG and your personnel department including you Chris and your nephew. Hire a team president and disappear

While I agree with you. I can understand the hesitation. Because, what kind of coach will be attracted to a job with a team that has shown a quick trigger? Might make it really hard to find a good coach.
RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2022 11:16 pm : link
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.


It's a 4.5b enterprise run like the family deli
RE: RE: Keeping a coach because  
eric2425ny : 1/9/2022 11:17 pm : link
In comment 15540388 Hades07 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540370 djstat said:


Quote:


You’ve made other boneheaded hires is a poor reason to keep him. This franchise is a disgrace. Fire judge, DG and your personnel department including you Chris and your nephew. Hire a team president and disappear


While I agree with you. I can understand the hesitation. Because, what kind of coach will be attracted to a job with a team that has shown a quick trigger? Might make it really hard to find a good coach.


Quick trigger? Judge is clearly not ready for this role. His decisions are awful.
I wish John Mara shared Chris Mara’s love of horse racing.  
bceagle05 : 1/9/2022 11:17 pm : link
Send them both to the racetrack everyday and find someone competent to run things.
If they’re truly ready to at least try and get a new GM hire right  
mfsd : 1/9/2022 11:17 pm : link
There’s no way you can limit to only candidates who will work with Judge
Entire update proves their ineptitude  
AcesUp : 1/9/2022 11:18 pm : link
1) The previous two coaches’ tenures should have absolutely no bearing on whether or not they believe Judge is the guy. 2) this decision should have been made already. What new information were they waiting for this week?

The guys calling the shots are scared and indecisive.
 
christian : 1/9/2022 11:18 pm : link
The revolving door is a Mara issue not Judge issue.

Judge wasn’t ready.

Just make sure the next guy is. Problem solved.
RE: I wish John Mara shared Chris Mara’s love of horse racing.  
JPinstripes : 1/9/2022 11:19 pm : link
In comment 15540392 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Send them both to the racetrack everyday and find someone competent to run things.


How about we send them both to the glue factory... Make it happen Tisch.
RE: .  
AcidTest : 1/9/2022 11:23 pm : link
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.


^This. The team and organization are already perceived as an out of control mess, but he's afraid that firing an incompetent coach will add to that perception? Not firing Judge is in fact more likely to add to that perception.
If they still believe he can be the guy  
dancing blue bear : 1/9/2022 11:23 pm : link
then let the next GM decide if he wants him

If they don't believe in him then fire him now. It's pretty simple.

The firing coaches every 2 years is not a reason to keep him

nor is capitulating to a blood thirsty mob a reason to fire him
This should have been decided before this week  
GiantsFan84 : 1/9/2022 11:24 pm : link
The fact that they are still wishy washy about this speaks volumes about how fucking incompetent ownership is
You have to be kidding me with this BS  
lawguy9801 : 1/9/2022 11:24 pm : link
This must be taken straight out of "how not to run a business" from the first year of business school.

Incomprehensible.

What happened previously has no bearing on what should happen now.

I really, really hope this is bad information.
RE: RE: ...  
j_rud : 1/9/2022 11:25 pm : link
In comment 15540382 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540373 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:






Not all heroes wear capes, but brown bags.


RE: Entire update proves their ineptitude  
HomerJones45 : 1/9/2022 11:26 pm : link
In comment 15540395 AcesUp said:
Quote:
1) The previous two coaches’ tenures should have absolutely no bearing on whether or not they believe Judge is the guy. 2) this decision should have been made already. What new information were they waiting for this week?

The guys calling the shots are scared and indecisive.
exactly. Stop making stupid hires. McAdoo who barely had any experience as a coordinator and was a boob on top of it, Shurmur, who had already failed twice as a HC and then this clown who had zero experience and dazzled the rubes with his bullshit. Gee, WCGW with that group?
RE: RE: .  
bluefin : 1/9/2022 11:26 pm : link
In comment 15540390 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.



It's a 4.5b enterprise run like the family deli

I don’t buy it - I think judge is already gone
Judge  
AcidTest : 1/9/2022 11:27 pm : link
is a "sunk cost." You can't let sunk costs in any context influence or dictate what you do next.

Judge should be fired now, but I'm OK leaving that decision to the new GM.
Strahan said on the pre game he should go.  
TC : 1/9/2022 11:28 pm : link
The only thing worse than a carousel of coaches is keeping one you're only going to get rid of soon anyway.
RE: If they still believe he can be the guy  
HomerJones45 : 1/9/2022 11:29 pm : link
In comment 15540402 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:
then let the next GM decide if he wants him

If they don't believe in him then fire him now. It's pretty simple.

The firing coaches every 2 years is not a reason to keep him

nor is capitulating to a blood thirsty mob a reason to fire him
oh yeah, it’s the mob. It’s not that Judge has demonstrated to virtually all but those of blind faith that he is incompetent to work the position.
I would love to know who in the locker room  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/9/2022 11:30 pm : link
Is done with Judge.
On  
AcidTest : 1/9/2022 11:32 pm : link
second thought, Mara should just fire Judge now. That decision shouldn't be shifted to the new GM, especially as he's trying to settle into the job.
fire him now or fire him week 10  
bluepepper : 1/9/2022 11:32 pm : link
next year. We all know that's the decision. Given that I think they do it now and give the new GM a clean slate to work with.
So predictable...  
bw in dc : 1/9/2022 11:32 pm : link
Here is my guess.

Tisch sees the light on this. And he understands how putrid this organization has become. I'm guessing he's willing to cut bait on Judge.

However, Mara, being Mara, can't bring himself to believe he made ANOTHER hiring mistake at a key position. He's 0 for his last 4 - McAdoo, Gettleman, Shurmur, Judge. Toss in Jones, which I'm certain he was huge part of, and he's 0 for his last 5. Well, 0 for his last 6 if you want to include SB.

So, he's very likely the holdout on this and will likely get the dove - Tisch - to cave.

Alas, I have the worst feeling Judge stays.

I do hope I'm wrong.

RE: I would love to know who in the locker room  
j_rud : 1/9/2022 11:36 pm : link
In comment 15540419 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Is done with Judge.


I'm willing to wager everyone he asked to line up two plays in a row and wave a big white flag. They should be. He embarrassed them worse than their poor at could ever embarrass themselves.
*their poor play  
j_rud : 1/9/2022 11:36 pm : link
.
See, to me Judge has literally  
Chris684 : 1/9/2022 11:38 pm : link
thrown this away over the month, or maybe even more specifically over the last 2 weeks. Up until then I thought you could have made a logical argument that for all his mistakes there was at least a pathway to year 3 of Joe Judge with a new GM/OC/QB. The problem is the majority of fans had already wanted him less than halfway into year 2. Not laying blame here, just saying, you guys act like there is no risk in throwing names at the wall and seeing who sticks for a replacement.

The truth is that even in naming a new GM and whatever unknown HC, that regime likely has 1 year to get it right before they are the next names on the chopping block. The majority of people will NOT want to give that pairing a chance to get off the ground and this will become a cycle.

This is why I believe Mara can’t afford to go either of those routes and has to go for the jugular. I don’t think they can afford to go with names like Judge or Graham or Bienemy or Martindale or whomever.

The obvious move here is to go after Harbaugh so aggressively that the only way he doesn’t come here is if he has to publicly refuse the offer. Meet his price. See if you can get him and Fangio together. That is immediate credibility. With a hire like that you expect to start competing next year and contending the year after. All I know is if I’m putting myself in Mara’s shoes that’s exactly what I’m trying to do right now.

If that doesn’t work I’d quickly move on to calling New Orleans to see if he can be had for some of those additional draft picks. New Orleans is no better off at the QB position than we are.

If those failed I’d be looking at Zimmer.

I would follow that order but at the end of the day, any one of those guys provides instant credibility that a first time hire just can not.
RE: See, to me Judge has literally  
Chris684 : 1/9/2022 11:42 pm : link
In comment 15540438 Chris684 said:
Quote:
thrown this away over the month, or maybe even more specifically over the last 2 weeks. Up until then I thought you could have made a logical argument that for all his mistakes there was at least a pathway to year 3 of Joe Judge with a new GM/OC/QB. The problem is the majority of fans had already wanted him less than halfway into year 2. Not laying blame here, just saying, you guys act like there is no risk in throwing names at the wall and seeing who sticks for a replacement.

The truth is that even in naming a new GM and whatever unknown HC, that regime likely has 1 year to get it right before they are the next names on the chopping block. The majority of people will NOT want to give that pairing a chance to get off the ground and this will become a cycle.

This is why I believe Mara can’t afford to go either of those routes and has to go for the jugular. I don’t think they can afford to go with names like Judge or Graham or Bienemy or Martindale or whomever.

The obvious move here is to go after Harbaugh so aggressively that the only way he doesn’t come here is if he has to publicly refuse the offer. Meet his price. See if you can get him and Fangio together. That is immediate credibility. With a hire like that you expect to start competing next year and contending the year after. All I know is if I’m putting myself in Mara’s shoes that’s exactly what I’m trying to do right now.

If that doesn’t work I’d quickly move on to calling New Orleans to see if he can be had for some of those additional draft picks. New Orleans is no better off at the QB position than we are.

If those failed I’d be looking at Zimmer.

I would follow that order but at the end of the day, any one of those guys provides instant credibility that a first time hire just can not.


Sorry, typing so fast “he” in New Orleans being Payton of course.
.  
Banks : 1/9/2022 11:42 pm : link
I actually understand the thinking that there would be hesitation to join an organization that fires coaches every 2 years. However Judge made such a fool of himself in recent weeks, insulting players and coaches in the league, everyone would understand why he would get fired and I'm not sure many other teams would be welcoming him with open arms.
The difference between Bill Belichick and Judge is . . . .  
TC : 1/9/2022 11:48 pm : link
one is Bill Belichick and the other is a Bill Belichick wannabe. Being able to talk the talk, isn't being able to walk the walk. I.e., Judge is in over his head, and doesn't know what he's doing.

Gotta go, the sooner, the better.

RE: I would love to know who in the locker room  
JonC : 1/9/2022 11:52 pm : link
In comment 15540419 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Is done with Judge.


Probably any player or person who realizes he sucks at it.
RE: See, to me Judge has literally  
djm : 1/9/2022 11:53 pm : link
In comment 15540438 Chris684 said:
Quote:
thrown this away over the month, or maybe even more specifically over the last 2 weeks. Up until then I thought you could have made a logical argument that for all his mistakes there was at least a pathway to year 3 of Joe Judge with a new GM/OC/QB. The problem is the majority of fans had already wanted him less than halfway into year 2. Not laying blame here, just saying, you guys act like there is no risk in throwing names at the wall and seeing who sticks for a replacement.

The truth is that even in naming a new GM and whatever unknown HC, that regime likely has 1 year to get it right before they are the next names on the chopping block. The majority of people will NOT want to give that pairing a chance to get off the ground and this will become a cycle.

This is why I believe Mara can’t afford to go either of those routes and has to go for the jugular. I don’t think they can afford to go with names like Judge or Graham or Bienemy or Martindale or whomever.

The obvious move here is to go after Harbaugh so aggressively that the only way he doesn’t come here is if he has to publicly refuse the offer. Meet his price. See if you can get him and Fangio together. That is immediate credibility. With a hire like that you expect to start competing next year and contending the year after. All I know is if I’m putting myself in Mara’s shoes that’s exactly what I’m trying to do right now.

If that doesn’t work I’d quickly move on to calling New Orleans to see if he can be had for some of those additional draft picks. New Orleans is no better off at the QB position than we are.

If those failed I’d be looking at Zimmer.

I would follow that order but at the end of the day, any one of those guys provides instant credibility that a first time hire just can not.


Seconded. You want to fix this shit? Hire a real head coach. No more prospects.

Take a chance for once and go all in for Harbaugh. Force him to deny you.
it is okay to be wrong  
torrey : 1/9/2022 11:53 pm : link
it is not okay to stay wrong
RE: RE: See, to me Judge has literally  
bluefin : 1/10/2022 12:00 am : link
In comment 15540480 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15540438 Chris684 said:


Quote:


thrown this away over the month, or maybe even more specifically over the last 2 weeks. Up until then I thought you could have made a logical argument that for all his mistakes there was at least a pathway to year 3 of Joe Judge with a new GM/OC/QB. The problem is the majority of fans had already wanted him less than halfway into year 2. Not laying blame here, just saying, you guys act like there is no risk in throwing names at the wall and seeing who sticks for a replacement.

The truth is that even in naming a new GM and whatever unknown HC, that regime likely has 1 year to get it right before they are the next names on the chopping block. The majority of people will NOT want to give that pairing a chance to get off the ground and this will become a cycle.

This is why I believe Mara can’t afford to go either of those routes and has to go for the jugular. I don’t think they can afford to go with names like Judge or Graham or Bienemy or Martindale or whomever.

The obvious move here is to go after Harbaugh so aggressively that the only way he doesn’t come here is if he has to publicly refuse the offer. Meet his price. See if you can get him and Fangio together. That is immediate credibility. With a hire like that you expect to start competing next year and contending the year after. All I know is if I’m putting myself in Mara’s shoes that’s exactly what I’m trying to do right now.

If that doesn’t work I’d quickly move on to calling New Orleans to see if he can be had for some of those additional draft picks. New Orleans is no better off at the QB position than we are.

If those failed I’d be looking at Zimmer.

I would follow that order but at the end of the day, any one of those guys provides instant credibility that a first time hire just can not.



Seconded. You want to fix this shit? Hire a real head coach. No more prospects.

Take a chance for once and go all in for Harbaugh. Force him to deny you.

good idea - he may find the challenge enticing
No 65 year old head coach  
JonC : 1/10/2022 12:02 am : link
It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.
I'd bring Harbaugh here in a second.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/10/2022 12:07 am : link
He's definitely a different personality from what we're used to at head coach. But, you know, maybe that's what's needed here right now? Maybe it's the right time and right place for a Harbaugh type personality to be here.

There is absolutely no harm in trying at this point. We've been a joke for a decade and have gotten worse these past few years, not better.

Harbaugh is no spring chicken, but he's not extremely old, either. According to Google, he just turned 58 two weeks ago and obviously has a ton of energy as we've seen with him even in recent years in college.

Bring him in.
RE: No 65 year old head coach  
Chris684 : 1/10/2022 12:11 am : link
In comment 15540497 JonC said:
Quote:
It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.


You need credibility here more than youth. Judge had a month to forget but again, let’s not forget he lost in the court of public opinion less than a year and a half into trying to build something here. Not going to blame the fans as the losing has accumulated, but you can’t build anything if you don’t give a young coach time. I don’t think NYG has that luxury anymore.

I know you’re referencing Zimmer and while he’s not my first choice, I would hire him at age 65 over the next unknown who would come in here and find his seat hotter than he’ll probably inside of year 1.
Nope  
JonC : 1/10/2022 12:17 am : link
Zimmer's time has gone by, there's middle ground between 40 and 65.
RE: RE: No 65 year old head coach  
jvm52106 : 1/10/2022 12:21 am : link
In comment 15540515 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540497 JonC said:


Quote:


It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.



You need credibility here more than youth. Judge had a month to forget but again, let’s not forget he lost in the court of public opinion less than a year and a half into trying to build something here. Not going to blame the fans as the losing has accumulated, but you can’t build anything if you don’t give a young coach time. I don’t think NYG has that luxury anymore.

I know you’re referencing Zimmer and while he’s not my first choice, I would hire him at age 65 over the next unknown who would come in here and find his seat hotter than he’ll probably inside of year 1.


Zimmer is not the coach for a rebuild.
How on  
Straw Hat : 1/10/2022 12:26 am : link
Fucking earth is this even a debate at this point? These guys are awful.
RE: No 65 year old head coach  
islander1 : 1/10/2022 12:31 am : link
In comment 15540497 JonC said:
Quote:
It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.


I'm guessing that was the goal with Judge. Heh.
RE: RE: No 65 year old head coach  
Chris684 : 1/10/2022 12:35 am : link
In comment 15540586 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540497 JonC said:


Quote:


It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.



I'm guessing that was the goal with Judge. Heh.


Exactly.
Hahaha.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/10/2022 12:39 am : link
What a clown show.
Vegas  
jerseygiant : 1/10/2022 12:42 am : link
might be out of the running for Harbaugh with that win. I don’t know how they don’t stick with Bisaccia after what he just navigated through to get that team in the playoffs. So if they are indeed out, that’s great news for us. Don’t see him in Minn or Jax .. that leaves Chicago and NYG (potentially).
Angry huh  
Joey in VA : 1/10/2022 1:43 am : link
Maybe because the entire front office is a joke. Look around the league at the talent level on any other team and it's better than ours. Fromm and Glennon? Bredeson, Price, Skura, Solder? These are bottom of the barrel players. No upside no plus ability anywhere and an OC who installed an ancient offense and returned for year 2. I'd be irate, actually I am..
Zimmer is a dinosaur  
Producer : 1/10/2022 1:54 am : link
Defense, run first

We need a modern coach.
Just  
DG_89 : 1/10/2022 3:26 am : link
rip off the freakin' band-aid. Judge lost the team if Glazer is right about the rumblings in the locker room that is. Once that happens, it's best to move on or create another 2017 where the players basically rebelled against McAdoo and visibly dogged it on the field
RE: RE: Keeping a coach because  
OC2.0 : 1/10/2022 3:35 am : link
In comment 15540388 Hades07 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540370 djstat said:


Quote:


You’ve made other boneheaded hires is a poor reason to keep him. This franchise is a disgrace. Fire judge, DG and your personnel department including you Chris and your nephew. Hire a team president and disappear


While I agree with you. I can understand the hesitation. Because, what kind of coach will be attracted to a job with a team that has shown a quick trigger? Might make it really hard to find a good coach.

A 1st time NFL HC would jump instantly, that's who.
Owners should NOT  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2022 5:41 am : link
be torn on what to do with JJ. Just hire the right GM and let him relieve you of the responsibility that you shouldn't have in the first place!
RE: How on  
Les in TO : 1/10/2022 6:09 am : link
In comment 15540575 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
Fucking earth is this even a debate at this point? These guys are awful.
Because the people making the decision are clowns who happen to be part of the lucky sperm club, not smart football or business people.
RE: .  
kelly : 1/10/2022 6:11 am : link
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.


It's the Pepsi generation. Running the clown show.
RE: .  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/10/2022 6:17 am : link
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.


It is incredible isn't it?
RE: This should have been decided before this week  
trueblueinpw : 1/10/2022 6:28 am : link
In comment 15540403 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
The fact that they are still wishy washy about this speaks volumes about how fucking incompetent ownership is


Agree. What more did anyone need to see one way or another? The offense is historically bad. The team is historically bad. Was Mara really swayed by a game against another lousy team out of the playoffs? Was Mara waiting to see another Rah Rah Joe presser? So bad. So pathetic.
"I believe Giants brass is torn..."  
EricJ : 1/10/2022 6:34 am : link
guessing again
RE: Nope  
section125 : 1/10/2022 7:00 am : link
In comment 15540538 JonC said:
Quote:
Zimmer's time has gone by, there's middle ground between 40 and 65.


Yep
RE: .  
BigBlueJ : 1/10/2022 7:00 am : link
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.

This is the thinking that runs a $4.5B organization.


Go Terps, remember these people for the most part are given that money on a silver platter by the NFL football Gods.
People are rightly focused  
Jerry in_DC : 1/10/2022 7:05 am : link
on Maras terrible rationale for retaining Judge. But his rationale for removing Judge is pretty poor as well - giving in to fan reaction, basing decisions on a few meaningless games with a depleted team.

I favor removing Judge, but Maras process is terrible on both sides of the argument. The question is - Is Judge the right coach for the next 5 years? I say no. But if you're reacting to anything other than that question, you're doing it wrong
RE: People are rightly focused  
Sean : 1/10/2022 7:07 am : link
In comment 15540676 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
on Maras terrible rationale for retaining Judge. But his rationale for removing Judge is pretty poor as well - giving in to fan reaction, basing decisions on a few meaningless games with a depleted team.

I favor removing Judge, but Maras process is terrible on both sides of the argument. The question is - Is Judge the right coach for the next 5 years? I say no. But if you're reacting to anything other than that question, you're doing it wrong

+1
RE: A young NFL head coach  
ZogZerg : 1/10/2022 7:08 am : link
In comment 15540378 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
should be either an offensive guru or a defensive guru - Judge was neither and it showed.


Steelers and Ravens would totally disagree...
Something else to consider  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/10/2022 7:12 am : link
Not sure if this was mentioned in this thread...

If you keep Judge - you HAVE to overhaul the offensive side of the ball. Have to!

What kind of coaches are you going to attract to this lame duck situation?
RE: .  
EricJ : 1/10/2022 7:16 am : link
In comment 15540384 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He's basically decided to fire Judge but is hesitating solely on the basis that it will create the perception of a revolving door at head coach.


It is worse than that. His fear is making a decision the fans will not agree with. He is hesitating because he put a few leaks out there and is waiting to take the temperature of the fan base to see what he should do. Unfortunately, he does not spend enough time reading this threads or he would have had his answer a long time ago.

Regarding his need to please the fans..
All you need to do is see how he handled Eli They decided to move on from him. They played Geno and the fans went crazy. Mara said "we did not think the fans would be so emotional". Then, rather than move on from Eli like we should, he decides to try an appease the fans by attempting to build around him...again.
RE: People are rightly focused  
bw in dc : 1/10/2022 7:17 am : link
In comment 15540676 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
on Maras terrible rationale for retaining Judge. But his rationale for removing Judge is pretty poor as well - giving in to fan reaction, basing decisions on a few meaningless games with a depleted team.

I favor removing Judge, but Maras process is terrible on both sides of the argument. The question is - Is Judge the right coach for the next 5 years? I say no. But if you're reacting to anything other than that question, you're doing it wrong


The fans are a variable. IMV, a big variable. They consume the product. And if you don't pay attention to your customers, you are making a mistake. It's business 101.

Furthermore, Mara has stood before cameras at the end of these last four horrible seasons begging for patience from his customers. Pleading.

He's now the owner who cried wolf. He has NO credibility.
RE: Something else to consider  
AdamBrag : 1/10/2022 7:30 am : link
In comment 15540681 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Not sure if this was mentioned in this thread...

If you keep Judge - you HAVE to overhaul the offensive side of the ball. Have to!

What kind of coaches are you going to attract to this lame duck situation?


This is very true. What offensive coaches are going to come here when there's a good chance Judge is fired mid season and he has shown he's inept at coaching the offense?
It's hilarious that the rationale is the revolving door of coaches  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 1/10/2022 7:42 am : link
when the same person hired Pat Shurmur.

It's this guy and this guy alone. How has he managed the team, how has he managed a staff, and how has he managed the game? 0-3. He had managed the press OK until the last month.

Sunk cost. Cut bait.
RE: RE: No 65 year old head coach  
JonC : 1/10/2022 8:03 am : link
In comment 15540586 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540497 JonC said:


Quote:


It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.



I'm guessing that was the goal with Judge. Heh.


Yes, and it was a bad hire. So, let's hire a 65 year old who was a middle of the road head coach. Brilliant.
Since a new GM is coming in  
jeff57 : 1/10/2022 8:08 am : link
Hopefully from the outside, the revolving door complaint loses its logic. The door is already revolving. Calls for a fresh start.
RE: RE: A young NFL head coach  
Brown_Hornet : 1/10/2022 8:14 am : link
In comment 15540679 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 15540378 JPinstripes said:


Quote:


should be either an offensive guru or a defensive guru - Judge was neither and it showed.



Steelers and Ravens would totally disagree...
Zog, he needs to be an organizational guru that knows how to identify and influence talent in both players and coaches.
I had a really vivid dream last night  
Jerry in_DC : 1/10/2022 8:34 am : link
that the Giants offense lined up for every play facing the sideline. They ran all their plays toward the sideline then tried to turn upfield.
RE: I had a really vivid dream last night  
Dnew15 : 1/10/2022 8:40 am : link
In comment 15540785 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
that the Giants offense lined up for every play facing the sideline. They ran all their plays toward the sideline then tried to turn upfield.


I mean...at least this approach is creative.

More creative than what I've seen out of the Giants offense for 6 straight games....
Ginats management is so locked in internally, Mara can't force  
MartyNJ1969 : 1/10/2022 8:42 am : link
a change. This proves it. He couldn't make the change if he wanted too? wow
RE: Something else to consider  
GiantGrit : 1/10/2022 8:43 am : link
In comment 15540681 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Not sure if this was mentioned in this thread...

If you keep Judge - you HAVE to overhaul the offensive side of the ball. Have to!

What kind of coaches are you going to attract to this lame duck situation?


I’ve made this point as well. Why would a good OC want to come in here and get fired mid season? You need an entirely new offensive staff which is enough for me to just cut bait on Judge now. If you’re starting over offensively just do it with a new HC.
Judge appears to be a smart guy and  
Simms11 : 1/10/2022 8:55 am : link
I’m sure his interview wow’d ownership, but clearly this wasn’t the time to start with an inexperienced HC and a guy that would be learning the ropes, especially after two failed HCs prior. I liked the fact that they were thinking out of the box with the hire originally, but it’s proven to be an utter disaster. In fact I think the team is worse now then it was when McAdoo took over. Admit your mistakes and move on!
Start over  
LoveFootball : 1/10/2022 8:57 am : link
Hire real football people, ownership stay out of the mother fucking building. I don't even want to SEE John K. Mara again.

If Glazer is right about player frustration,  
Section331 : 1/10/2022 9:05 am : link
it belies Judge's claims of culture-building, and that was really the only thing he was hanging his hat on. If the only reason to keep him goes up in flames, why keep him? Giving a bad coach a 3rd year is only delaying the inevitable AND will be a hindrance in the GM search.
RE: Owners should NOT  
smshmth8690 : 1/10/2022 9:06 am : link
In comment 15540646 Mayo2JZ said:
Quote:
be torn on what to do with JJ. Just hire the right GM and let him relieve you of the responsibility that you shouldn't have in the first place!


I agree, I also think that the new GM should already have been in place.
RE: Judge appears to be a smart guy and  
Carson53 : 1/10/2022 9:06 am : link
In comment 15540806 Simms11 said:
Quote:
I’m sure his interview wow’d ownership, but clearly this wasn’t the time to start with an inexperienced HC and a guy that would be learning the ropes, especially after two failed HCs prior. I liked the fact that they were thinking out of the box with the hire originally, but it’s proven to be an utter disaster. In fact I think the team is worse now then it was when McAdoo took over. Admit your mistakes and move on!
.

He thinks he is too smart for his own good.
It's obvious he is in way over head.
He must have really wowed Mara during the interview process.
That doesn't appear to be that hard nowadays either...
Given the results  
LG in NYC : 1/10/2022 9:07 am : link
and the overall level of toxicity re: Judge right now, you have to move on (from DG too obviously).

But who to replace them with is not easy and as we Giants fans know all too well, there is no guarantee it gets better any time soon.


we have good, smart people on this site alone diametrically opposed to who our next GM/HC should be... and whoever we hire there will be a vocal group calling for them to be fired 12 mos from now (maybe 18 mos) if we don't see immediate improvement, or if they decide to stick with Jones another year, or don't draft the player they want.

I don't know enough to predict who the right ppl are to turn this franchise around... assuming we make the change, I will be hopeful we get it right (by luck or by any other means) and we can start to be proud of this franchise again.

but one thing is for sure, BBI will be at odds over almost anything related to the Giants regardless... : )
RE: RE: Owners should NOT  
Carson53 : 1/10/2022 9:08 am : link
In comment 15540829 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
In comment 15540646 Mayo2JZ said:


Quote:


be torn on what to do with JJ. Just hire the right GM and let him relieve you of the responsibility that you shouldn't have in the first place!



I agree, I also think that the new GM should already have been in place.
.

Fire Gettleman today, no reason to wait on that end!
RE: RE: RE: No 65 year old head coach  
BrettNYG10 : 1/10/2022 9:08 am : link
In comment 15540735 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15540586 islander1 said:


Quote:


In comment 15540497 JonC said:


Quote:


It's time to focus on building something sustainable from the foundation up.



I'm guessing that was the goal with Judge. Heh.



Yes, and it was a bad hire. So, let's hire a 65 year old who was a middle of the road head coach. Brilliant.


We tried to go the 'assured competence' route with Garrett and it blew up in our face. I actually like Zimmer but I'm a no on his hire too.
Garrett  
Jerry in_DC : 1/10/2022 9:12 am : link
might have been the guy holding the whole operation together. Things have really spiraled since his departure
Judge hasn't had a good year and looked almost nonsensical  
chick310 : 1/10/2022 9:12 am : link
over the past several weeks. But keep in mind that there was an overwhelming sentiment on BBI a year ago that Judge was a rising star. John Mara probably felt the same way which is why this is not an easy decision for him.

In fact, many here wanted to basically give Judge the "keys" and start phasing Gettleman out from the player personnel process altogether. Now he is just garbage and doesn't deserve another chance?

If you were so wrong about him being right, how do you positively know you are right now in wanting him dismissed?
I still can't get over  
The Jake : 1/10/2022 9:14 am : link
the fact that a guy who has never been a head coach in his entire life walked into an interview with the NY Giants and with a couple of recommendations - AND ZERO TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESS IN THE ROLE - was handed the reins to one of the premiere franchises in all of sports.

It feels like something that would occur in the Biff Tannen alternate timeline in Back to the Future 2.
If he really has lost the locker toom  
UberAlias : 1/10/2022 9:17 am : link
Which most of us can accept, even if you believed Judge can be a good coach, there is no path to success with him. If Judge is retained we are going to be in the same position a year from now only having lost a key chip in the GM process. Most importantly is to bring in strong GM with a strong voice who brings credibility to the organization. How are they going to attract such a man if he is forced to take on a losing head coach who has already lost control of his team?

This is their chance to break the cycle and do things right. NYG did not wish to flow coaches after 2 years, but the man brought the situation on himself. I feel bad for him, but not so bad that this team has to flounder on his account.

If Judge is a good coach, he will learn from this this and eventually rebound. If NYG wishes to break the cycle they need to cease the opportunity and go all in on a GM candidate of stature and empower him to force meaningful change on an organization that has clearly lost its way.

Time to stop looking back and look boldly ahead for Christ sakes. Every fan knows this. The league knows this. Many within the building know this. But if the right people fail to see this --again-- then God help us. The consequences of NYG being this bad, this blind, this inept, for this long is a serious problem for the league.
I want a HC who has proven he can be successful somewhere  
PatersonPlank : 1/10/2022 9:22 am : link
I dont care about the age, we need to turn the ship around and even if the guy is here for 3 years so what. I've had enough of these "hot asst with no/minimal experience" experiments, like Shurmur, Big Mac, and JJ.
RE: I still can't get over  
jeff57 : 1/10/2022 9:26 am : link
In comment 15540854 The Jake said:
Quote:
the fact that a guy who has never been a head coach in his entire life walked into an interview with the NY Giants and with a couple of recommendations - AND ZERO TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESS IN THE ROLE - was handed the reins to one of the premiere franchises in all of sports.

It feels like something that would occur in the Biff Tannen alternate timeline in Back to the Future 2.


Never understood the hire.
RE: I want a HC who has proven he can be successful somewhere  
PatersonPlank : 1/10/2022 9:32 am : link
In comment 15540891 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I dont care about the age, we need to turn the ship around and even if the guy is here for 3 years so what. I've had enough of these "hot asst with no/minimal experience" experiments, like Shurmur, Big Mac, and JJ.


If Flores is truly fired I'd hire him
fucking plug and play HC is out there (Harbaugh)  
djm : 1/10/2022 9:39 am : link
but this cockless and spineless fucking franchise would rather play things slow, safe and close to the vest.

Never panic NYG. Never work with a sense of urgency and above all else never let anyone see you act with desperation. It's much better to be perceived as one that didn't try to hire someone rather than one that did but was turned down. Fucking sad sacks.

All I ask is that they try for Harbaugh. Just try. At the very least it would tell us all that they only care about winning. But no, can't do that because Harbaugh doesn't say his prayers at the dinner table and goes off the Mara scripts.

Get ready for the safe route, even if it doesn't look safe. We know it's coming.
So  
Joe Beckwith : 1/10/2022 9:45 am : link
They are worried about PERCEPTION if they fire the guy who has ruined their organization’s IMAGE the last 3 weeks with his odd comments and for 2 years with his in-game decisions?

I had a lot of hope that DG would tell them to let go of this ‘family’ and ‘ loyalty’ image, and run it like a 21st century business it is. DISAPPOINTED.
I had a lot of hope JJ would coach the team like a 21st century football team, regardless of the level of talent. DISAPPOINTED.
I will continue to be disappointed as long as the first disappointment continues.
RE: I still can't get over  
Chris684 : 1/10/2022 9:58 am : link
In comment 15540854 The Jake said:
Quote:
the fact that a guy who has never been a head coach in his entire life walked into an interview with the NY Giants and with a couple of recommendations - AND ZERO TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESS IN THE ROLE - was handed the reins to one of the premiere franchises in all of sports.

It feels like something that would occur in the Biff Tannen alternate timeline in Back to the Future 2.


I understand the frustration but let's not be dramatic. It happens all the time in the NFL. Every single one of these coordinator/first time head coaches is a major gamble. I'd love to see the numbers but for every one of them that works out, there's got to be at least between 5-10 that don't.

If you want to go crazy about a recent coaching hire, do so over the fact that we hired Shurmur who was a known failure as a head coach and yet they brought him in anyway.

Anyway, no sense in going backwards, but what I said above about these first timers is why they need to move mountains for a guy like Harbaugh or Sean Payton.
Fans don't know enough to make the call  
Reale01 : 1/10/2022 9:59 am : link
That said the product was obviously terrible and that is all we can see. The next steps are pretty obvious.

First - Hire a General Manager! Do not rely on Ernie Acorsi.
Second - Hire a General Manager!

Third - Let the GM decide on the coach for 2022.

The new GM will consider the following:
On field performance - obviously bad.
What is Judge's plan for the future?

Things I would ask Joe Judge:
How will YOU improve the offense?
If Judge says "get better players" then he should be fired.
Who will be the next OC? If Judge says Kitchens - Fire him.
What are YOU going to do to get off to a better start?
What are YOU going to do to improve game management?

Things I would ask the players
Locker room - are the players still drinking the Kool-Aid?
What is REALLY the mood?
What would you do differently so we could start winning?
What frustrates you?
Do you feel well prepared when you go on the field?

Personally, I am not as down on the Giants future. You fix the offense. You fix the team. The defense was generally well prepared and competitive. It needs to improve but it is not totally broken. It is hard to be a good defense when the offense is as bad as it has been.

You fix the offense by being able to run and being able to pass protect. That is a combination of scheme and players. Clearly need better o-lineman to address both issues. That is NOT Judge. The scheme was also bad, the play calling was bad, that is ultimately on Judge. He needs to ADMIT that and have a plan to get better.

You make the call on Judge after you get these answers. Maybe he was saddled with Garrett and would do things differently. If the players are behind him and he has the good answers then as GM I might keep him to see if he can turn things around with a better offensive line.





Judge  
AcidTest : 1/10/2022 10:00 am : link
is awful. That isn't even debatable. High school coaches manage the clock and use their TOs better than Judge.

Judge is 10 - 23, which is a winning percentage of .303. He's the first Giants coach to lose 13 games in a season, including the last six. We scored seven TDs after the bye, at least three of which were in "garbage time."

Mara should just fire him and as many other people as possible, including Abrams and Petit.

We've had 10 years of terrible football and comically bad player personnel decisions.
RE: I still can't get over  
Greg from LI : 1/10/2022 10:05 am : link
In comment 15540854 The Jake said:
Quote:
the fact that a guy who has never been a head coach in his entire life walked into an interview with the NY Giants and with a couple of recommendations - AND ZERO TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESS IN THE ROLE - was handed the reins to one of the premiere franchises in all of sports.

It feels like something that would occur in the Biff Tannen alternate timeline in Back to the Future 2.


Before the Giants promoted Parcells in 1983, he had been a head coach for one season, a lackluster 3-8 season at Air Force in 1978.
We have a coaching turntable  
kelly : 1/10/2022 10:56 am : link
because of the Mara's and here we go again.

The absolute definition of insanity. Tisch needs to step in big time and get the Mara's out of personnel.

BTW why is Mara meeting with Judge without Tisch?
Chris684  
GiantGrit : 1/10/2022 11:21 am : link
Totally in agreement they should stop fucking around and throw big $$ and organizational power at Harbaugh or Payton.

I would tell Payton he can do whatever the hell he wants and let him pick the GM he wants to work with.

Sean Payton should get Coach of the Year votes. The Saints went 9-8 and played 4 different quarterbacks.

We didn’t know how to throw the ball after Jones went out and even before then we didn’t look so hot.
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