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Per Duggan: Judge currently meeting with Mara

BeckShepEli : 1/10/2022 9:19 am
presenting plan to fix this.
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When does Mara address the press?  
AdamBrag : 1/10/2022 11:23 am : link
Things are going to be REALLY ugly after today.
RE: My take  
Chris684 : 1/10/2022 11:24 am : link
In comment 15541573 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
Is Mara tells Judge new GM will decide on who the coach is.


Yes, the longer we don't hear specifically that he is out or he is back means that Mara is putting it in the hands of the new GM.

Not the worst strategy by the way.
RE: Raanan update  
Jim in Tampa : 1/10/2022 11:26 am : link
In comment 15541514 Anakim said:
Quote:
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan

There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.

If Judge is "expected to do some Zoom press conferences after" team meeting doesn't this mean that he's still the HC?

Fired head coaches don't do (Zoom) press conferences right after they're fired.
Mara could punt the decision  
JonC : 1/10/2022 11:30 am : link
to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.
I refuse to believe they don't know  
djm : 1/10/2022 11:31 am : link
and they are bringing Judge back. Just walk me the fuck off the plank, blind folded and tell me I am just taking a nice stroll on the beach.
Just because Judge is meeting with Mara  
3putt : 1/10/2022 11:31 am : link
doesn't necessarily mean the meeting is entirely about whether Judge comes back, does it?

Couldn't it just be: "What went wrong? How would you fix it going forward? Ok, Joe. We're hiring a new GM. He'll get back to you soon."
Mara overcomplicates things.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/10/2022 11:31 am : link
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
RE: Mara could punt the decision  
bw in dc : 1/10/2022 11:33 am : link
In comment 15541619 JonC said:
Quote:
to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.


Right. Which, alas, kills that notion.
RE: My take  
Jim in Tampa : 1/10/2022 11:33 am : link
In comment 15541573 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
Is Mara tells Judge new GM will decide on who the coach is.

That just doesn't make sense. It be a gutless move for an owner to leave the firing to an INCOMING GM.

You also want the new GM's first press conference to be an uplifting time, not one where he has to address whether or not he's going to fire Judge.
You CANNOT wait for a new GM to make this decision  
Kanavis : 1/10/2022 11:33 am : link
Because he will be hired with his opinion of Judge in mind. We don't need to see anything further. He isn't an NFL coach right now. There is almost no one who thinks so.
RE: Mara overcomplicates things.  
Essex : 1/10/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.

Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
Biggest laughingstock in sports history  
Justlurking : 1/10/2022 11:34 am : link
Fuck you John and Chris Mara. Disgrace. Sell the fucking team. LOSERS.
RE: You CANNOT wait for a new GM to make this decision  
Essex : 1/10/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15541636 Kanavis said:
Quote:
Because he will be hired with his opinion of Judge in mind. We don't need to see anything further. He isn't an NFL coach right now. There is almost no one who thinks so.

As long as you hire him with the ability to fire Judge, its no big deal. Trust me, a new GM is not going to want Joe Judge.
You want a glimmer of hope?  
Mike in Long Beach : 1/10/2022 11:35 am : link
Think of the pathetic Dave Gettleman retirement party on the field yesterday. For better or worse (obviously for worse) Mara has great affection for these guys.

If they're going to let Joe Judge go, Mara's already proven with Gettleman that he has this desire to let them go on their own terms. I just can't fucking possibly comprehend they see any scenario where keeping Judge is the right move. It's just that obvious. So I'm wondering if they're going to let Judge speak to the media and tell the world they've "mutually decided to part ways" and suck each other off for 20 zoom minutes.
RE: Mara could punt the decision  
Essex : 1/10/2022 11:36 am : link
In comment 15541619 JonC said:
Quote:
to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.

But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.
If Judge is retained...  
bw in dc : 1/10/2022 11:36 am : link
another Mara Mandate has been issued:

GM must be willing to work with Judge. And Jones.



RE: RE: Mara overcomplicates things.  
Jim in Tampa : 1/10/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15541637 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.


Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it

Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?
Agreed...  
Kanavis : 1/10/2022 11:40 am : link
Let the new GM pick the coach...but let him start with a clean slate. Leaving the decision to someone else is completely gutless.

And we better now see some long drawn-out GM search. They should have been thinking about this all year.
RE: RE: Mara could punt the decision  
JonC : 1/10/2022 11:40 am : link
In comment 15541653 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15541619 JonC said:


Quote:


to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.


But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.


They can wait to hire the new HC, just get the bum HC out of the building sooner than later, so Mara isn't tempted to reverse course.
RE: RE: RE: Mara overcomplicates things.  
Essex : 1/10/2022 11:40 am : link
In comment 15541658 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15541637 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.


Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it


Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?

what is the difference? As long as we get rid of him, what does it matter?
RE: If Judge is retained...  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/10/2022 11:40 am : link
In comment 15541654 bw in dc said:
Quote:
another Mara Mandate has been issued:

GM must be willing to work with Judge. And Jones.




Agree 100%. Nightmare scenario.
I found out why it's taking so long  
JohnF : 1/10/2022 11:44 am : link
Mara is following the advice of his top advisor at 1925 Giants way:

RE: RE: RE: RE: Mara overcomplicates things.  
Jim in Tampa : 1/10/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15541667 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15541658 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 15541637 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.


Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it


Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?


what is the difference? As long as we get rid of him, what does it matter?

The difference is that if you can't even come up with one example of an owner not firing his HC at the end of the season and passing that decision on to the incoming GM, then it's not what smart organizations do.
The fact  
darren in pdx : 1/10/2022 11:45 am : link
they haven’t announced anything whereas other teams have has me accepting that Judge and Abrahams are going to be retained. I don’t think I’m going to watch the Giants next year if that is the case. Reports are coming out that the players want Joe gone. It’ll be even more of a dumpster fire than this season has been.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Mara overcomplicates things.  
Essex : 1/10/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15541690 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15541667 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15541658 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 15541637 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.


Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it


Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?


what is the difference? As long as we get rid of him, what does it matter?


The difference is that if you can't even come up with one example of an owner not firing his HC at the end of the season and passing that decision on to the incoming GM, then it's not what smart organizations do.

I am not really looking for process, I know Mara stinks, I am looking for substance and the substance is to get Judge out and the right people in here. So, I will live with the fact they did it in a dopey way as long as they get him out
RE:  
Justlurking : 1/10/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15541469 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
which correlates with no word that Judge is fired two hours after the meeting started.

I'm fucking done with this team if Judge is back.


i will never support them again.
RE: Mara could punt the decision  
bigbluescot : 1/10/2022 11:46 am : link
In comment 15541619 JonC said:
Quote:
to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.


Which why not canning Gettleman weeks ago was such a stupid idea. Hell, even have him put out a statement via Hanlon three or four weeks ago saying 'yadda yadda Health reasons' and have a bunch of GM interviews lined up or completed by now.

I fear we end up in a review situation, with some business consultancy or, god forbid, Ernie, and are left with the dregs of the GM and HC packs.
 
christian : 1/10/2022 11:47 am : link
John Mara could fuck up a glass of water.
RE: …  
GNewGiants : 1/10/2022 11:48 am : link
In comment 15541707 christian said:
Quote:
John Mara could fuck up a glass of water.


Not a medium Pepsi tho!
RE: RE: Mara could punt the decision  
JonC : 1/10/2022 11:49 am : link
In comment 15541703 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 15541619 JonC said:


Quote:


to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.



Which why not canning Gettleman weeks ago was such a stupid idea. Hell, even have him put out a statement via Hanlon three or four weeks ago saying 'yadda yadda Health reasons' and have a bunch of GM interviews lined up or completed by now.

I fear we end up in a review situation, with some business consultancy or, god forbid, Ernie, and are left with the dregs of the GM and HC packs.


Hopefully they've been working on GM candidates in the back channels as it's not unheard of. But, they sure do tend to get more wrong than right at the Timex Center.
I could be wrong  
Spyder : 1/10/2022 11:50 am : link
but the Giants have not even announced the inevitable retirement of their GM, which should be an easy no brainer.
And they just drag out whatever they're going to do with Judge, which sure as hell seems like they want to do anything to keep this clown.

Typical Mara's thinking they always know best....
RE: RE: Mara could punt the decision  
BillKo : 1/10/2022 11:50 am : link
In comment 15541633 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15541619 JonC said:


Quote:


to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.



Right. Which, alas, kills that notion.


It depends on philosophy though, right?

Who's calling the shots, the HC or the GM?

If it's going to be the GM, you have to hire a GM first and let him decide on his HC.

And a new GM usually has a HC he's already targeting....
RE: RE: Mara could punt the decision  
Paulie Walnuts : 1/10/2022 11:50 am : link
In comment 15541653 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15541619 JonC said:


Quote:


to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.


But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.


I think that JonC has the take as Mara is a pusillanimous man and will let the new GM fire Judge so Mara can stay "above it"
RE: If Judge is retained...  
Section331 : 1/10/2022 11:51 am : link
In comment 15541654 bw in dc said:
Quote:
another Mara Mandate has been issued:

GM must be willing to work with Judge. And Jones.




And Abrams.
How does this guy stick?  
trueblueinpw : 1/10/2022 11:51 am : link
There’s not one single football metric that’s gotten better with Judge as the coach. The Giants are worse this year than they were last year. The offense has been historically bad. The defense has been historically bad. Judge is historically bad. It’s nearly impossible that Judge is a good coach based on all objective data. If Mara keeps Judge it’s for no better reason than that he likes the cut of his jib.
RE: RE: RE: Mara overcomplicates things.  
bigbluescot : 1/10/2022 11:52 am : link
In comment 15541658 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15541637 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.

Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.


Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it


Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?


Colts, although I don't know if that's a smart organization given the owners antics and the Wentz trade. But when they signed Ballard, he kept Pagano for a year even though both Pagano and Griegson were on the hot seat. Ballard used that year to reshape the roster, amass draft and cap capital before moving on to Reich (after the McDaniels affair).
RE: RE: Mara could punt the decision  
BillKo : 1/10/2022 11:52 am : link
In comment 15541703 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 15541619 JonC said:


Quote:


to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.



Which why not canning Gettleman weeks ago was such a stupid idea. Hell, even have him put out a statement via Hanlon three or four weeks ago saying 'yadda yadda Health reasons' and have a bunch of GM interviews lined up or completed by now.

I fear we end up in a review situation, with some business consultancy or, god forbid, Ernie, and are left with the dregs of the GM and HC packs.


Bears and Vikings both fired both today and waited. Were they not concerned?

I think this is basically how it works.

I seriously don’t think I could stand another year of this......  
Simms11 : 1/10/2022 11:54 am : link
I’m a Giants fan through and through, but the agony of another losing season without playoffs is so taxing.
When will the Giants stop  
JohninSC : 1/10/2022 11:56 am : link
with the half measures? How many years in a row do we need to learn that only removing 50% of the problem isn't the way to do things?
RE: How does this guy stick?  
HomerJones45 : 1/10/2022 11:58 am : link
In comment 15541725 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
There’s not one single football metric that’s gotten better with Judge as the coach. The Giants are worse this year than they were last year. The offense has been historically bad. The defense has been historically bad. Judge is historically bad. It’s nearly impossible that Judge is a good coach based on all objective data. If Mara keeps Judge it’s for no better reason than that he likes the cut of his jib.
Mara is a study in bad judgment, but there is no logical reason to keep Judge. This is all optics and letting Jawn salve his wounded pride: "gee, I really think we need stability, he's got a promising future, we need to be patient, but we can't be patient in today's environment, we had to carefully consider" blah blah blah. In the end, Judge will be let go: there are too many voices saying he needs to go, including the locker room.

Then the stories will come out
Hate to break it to some of you  
montanagiant : 1/10/2022 11:58 am : link
But he is going to be retained
RE: Hate to break it to some of you  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/10/2022 11:59 am : link
In comment 15541769 montanagiant said:
Quote:
But he is going to be retained


Getting that feeling too. Now just promote Abrams and I will opt out this fall watching or even supporting this team.
RE: If Judge is retained...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/10/2022 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15541654 bw in dc said:
Quote:
another Mara Mandate has been issued:

GM must be willing to work with Judge. And Jones.




I’m not sure I agree. I think Judge and Jones would be Dead Men Walking in their absolute final year. If it doesn’t work, then the GM gets to do whatever he wants. I’m not even sure there would be any connection between Judge and Jones returning. They’re not picking up that option.

But I don’t even want to let the idea of Judge staying enter my thoughts.
Why would any good GM want to com here  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/10/2022 12:01 pm : link
and have Joe Judge forced on them?
*come  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/10/2022 12:02 pm : link
.
I'm also going to add...  
BillKo : 1/10/2022 12:02 pm : link
..getting a new GM in here for structure/scouting/etc. and especially with this draft coming up is more important than the HC.

JJ should be let go, but I'm not worried about missing out on a HC.

GM is most important to me, IMO, and that GM probably has a few guys in mind anyway that he's close to.

RE: RE: RE: Mara could punt the decision  
JohnF : 1/10/2022 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15541713 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15541703 bigbluescot said: Which why not canning Gettleman weeks ago was such a stupid idea. Hell, even have him put out a statement via Hanlon three or four weeks ago saying 'yadda yadda Health reasons' and have a bunch of GM interviews lined up or completed by now.


It's obvious John Mara does NOT want to fire Judge, and he DOES want to promote Abrams. My guess was that he was hoping for a last couple of wins as justification. Even now, he's probably talking to people to figure out how to sell this to the fans (he'll probably use Judge's talking points).

That would explain why he hasn't fired Judge (who should have been shown the door after his rant), and retained Gettleman up to the last second. The man cannot make a decision without checking the polls.

John Mara is showing why he's the worst owner in the NFL right now; he cannot make a decision on his own, he has to have someone to blame if it goes bad. Judge WILL be fired, either this year, or early next year, since there is no way to make this a competitive team in 2022 with the lousy cap management. Mara will let the new GM do it.
When Judge was hired  
Spyder : 1/10/2022 12:07 pm : link
the kool aide flavor was so indescribably delicious that day I had visions that this man ( a Bozo) could be our own Bill Belichek Jr, and some day Joe might emulate his mentor and become GM too.

LOL, I must have been loaded that day. Pete Townsend says it best, We Won't Get Fooled Again, NO NO NO....
If he's actually meeting him to hear his plan  
widmerseyebrow : 1/10/2022 12:09 pm : link
that's just more embarrassment for this franchise. Show some conviction and fire the guy. Quick meeting.
The minute there were rumors last night  
montanagiant : 1/10/2022 12:12 pm : link
That there was an internal debate about what to do with Judge he was going to be retained.

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