Judge picking his QB at 5, failing next year and then getting fired to saddle a new coach with a 2nd year QB he didn't choose is so perfectly Giants at every level.
That's the fear. If you're keeping Judge, it can't be to fire him next year.
Do it now, start fresh at all three key areas together: GM, head coach, QB.
^This. I don't want DG or Judge anywhere near any player personnel decisions. There are rumors that Judge loves Pickett. I'd be furious if we used a top 10 pick on him.
But Judge could be trying to convince Mara that he's failed because he doesn't have his QB, which is ridiculous. Whatever one may think of Jones, he isn't responsible for Judge's terrible clock management and use of TOs, or any of the FA signings or draft picks. Jones was also out for a significant part of the season.
There is no need to fire Judge today. Get the input from him. Hire a new GM. You HAVE to get that right. Let the GM run the show. He or she may decide to keep Judge or some of his coaches.
This too...
No, Judge lost that right with his actions the last half of the season. He deserves to be fired outright.
Maybe. I am not saying Judge has any rights. I want to give the new GM total reign, including firing the coach, if he wants to do that.
RE: But if Mara keeps Judge you damn well know the new GM is going
Tisch should hire McKinsey or Deloitte or KMPG to do a complete forensic audit of the Giants, without clearing with Mara of course, and claim it is part of his responsibilities on the "business side" of ownership.
There is no need to fire Judge today. Get the input from him. Hire a new GM. You HAVE to get that right. Let the GM run the show. He or she may decide to keep Judge or some of his coaches.
This too...
No, Judge lost that right with his actions the last half of the season. He deserves to be fired outright.
Maybe. I am not saying Judge has any rights. I want to give the new GM total reign, including firing the coach, if he wants to do that.
Clear the decks. You're assuming a new GM will want to talk to Judge and be tethered to having to make that observation and decision right off the bat.
Very few GMS would want that tar on them out the gate. They'd prefer a clear deck.
So if this meeting started at 9 am or even 9:20, wouldn't he
have been fired by now? I mean what is there to say if Mara's mind was made up? So my thinking is that IF he has been in a meeting since 9, Judge is back. Changes are being made and we are going to have to suffer through another long season after we hear how great an offseason they have. :(
comes across as very wishy-washy, someone who agonizes over what are very easy decisions. We have had 10 years of awful football, culminating in the worst season in the history of the franchise in terms of losses. Add in his off the field rants and insults to other teams and former coaches, and this is an easy decision. Yet Mara will keep him anyway, which of course will automatically eliminate any serious GM candidates from consideration.
RE: Why the fuck does Mara along get to make this decision?
Tisch should hire McKinsey or Deloitte or KMPG to do a complete forensic audit of the Giants, without clearing with Mara of course, and claim it is part of his responsibilities on the "business side" of ownership.
comes across as very wishy-washy, someone who agonizes over what are very easy decisions. We have had 10 years of awful football, culminating in the worst season in the history of the franchise in terms of losses. Add in his off the field rants and insults to other teams and former coaches, and this is an easy decision. Yet Mara will keep him anyway, which of course will automatically eliminate any serious GM candidates from consideration.
He's going to agonize to find a reason to keep him, then fire him by november next year.
RE: The problem with all these firings today, Mara can't compete
with these other owners for the few qualified coaches out there. he might be better off keeping Judge until next year.
There's tons of coaches out there. Keeping Judge just guarantees several more years of mediocrity.
I can see it now. Judge wins six or seven games next season on softer schedule and convinces everyone he got a turnaround, then they crater or flatline again in 2023.
He cannot handle the job. Poor preparation, in game management, and general handling of the team. And someone with his record has NO business insulting former or other coaches at all. Ever.
My fear is that Mara grew so comfortable with the idea of the team pointing up after last year, that he just can't pull the trigger now. He may look for a way to frame his decision to keep JJ and is counting on his snake oil to help him sell it. I hope I am wrong.
The idea of 'let the new GM pick' is unrealistic. Either he stays or does not. Any GM will have to be hired with a stance on JJ clear already. I am not sure what some people envisioning. A long conversation between the GM and Mara, and then careful deliberation about JJ's tenure, and then a decision? A new GM coming in would know whether they want JJ. Depending on Mara's stance, it would affect who is even interviewed.
We all saw and heard what we saw. He cannot handle the job. He is not a good coach right now. No half measures please!!!
I am done with this team if JJ is retained. Much, much better coaches are being let go today. He cannot handle the job.
And why would we have a GM who needs to tear down, paired with a coach trying to win at all costs to retain his job. They need to cut high-priced players and set themselves up for 2023 now.
I'm dying to hear what Mara's press conference will be like
when he announces Judge is on a short leash and DG is retiring with Abrams taking over. Media better call them all out. They'll pay lip service to Offense will change and Scouting will get better....yadda yadda yadda....getting irate just typing this
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
RE: I'm dying to hear what Mara's press conference will be like
when he announces Judge is on a short leash and DG is retiring with Abrams taking over. Media better call them all out. They'll pay lip service to Offense will change and Scouting will get better....yadda yadda yadda....getting irate just typing this
"Nobody is more disappointed in this season than Joe. He knows he has to win more games."
why would we have a GM who needs to tear down, paired with a coach trying to win at all costs to retain his job. They need to cut high-priced players and set themselves up for 2023 now.
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
This is when it will all come out. Nothing will be leaked until like 2 minutes before
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
If Judge is "expected to do some Zoom press conferences after" team meeting doesn't this mean that he's still the HC?
Fired head coaches don't do (Zoom) press conferences right after they're fired.
Because he will be hired with his opinion of Judge in mind. We don't need to see anything further. He isn't an NFL coach right now. There is almost no one who thinks so.
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
Because he will be hired with his opinion of Judge in mind. We don't need to see anything further. He isn't an NFL coach right now. There is almost no one who thinks so.
As long as you hire him with the ability to fire Judge, its no big deal. Trust me, a new GM is not going to want Joe Judge.
Think of the pathetic Dave Gettleman retirement party on the field yesterday. For better or worse (obviously for worse) Mara has great affection for these guys.
If they're going to let Joe Judge go, Mara's already proven with Gettleman that he has this desire to let them go on their own terms. I just can't fucking possibly comprehend they see any scenario where keeping Judge is the right move. It's just that obvious. So I'm wondering if they're going to let Judge speak to the media and tell the world they've "mutually decided to part ways" and suck each other off for 20 zoom minutes.
to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.
But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?
to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.
But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.
They can wait to hire the new HC, just get the bum HC out of the building sooner than later, so Mara isn't tempted to reverse course.
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?
what is the difference? As long as we get rid of him, what does it matter?
Quote:
Judge picking his QB at 5, failing next year and then getting fired to saddle a new coach with a 2nd year QB he didn't choose is so perfectly Giants at every level.
That's the fear. If you're keeping Judge, it can't be to fire him next year.
Do it now, start fresh at all three key areas together: GM, head coach, QB.
^This. I don't want DG or Judge anywhere near any player personnel decisions. There are rumors that Judge loves Pickett. I'd be furious if we used a top 10 pick on him.
But Judge could be trying to convince Mara that he's failed because he doesn't have his QB, which is ridiculous. Whatever one may think of Jones, he isn't responsible for Judge's terrible clock management and use of TOs, or any of the FA signings or draft picks. Jones was also out for a significant part of the season.
I'll check out on 22 and beyond.
This is beyond insulting.
what a well run organization would do...so the giants wont do it
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In comment 15541196 Reale01 said:
Quote:
There is no need to fire Judge today. Get the input from him. Hire a new GM. You HAVE to get that right. Let the GM run the show. He or she may decide to keep Judge or some of his coaches.
This too...
No, Judge lost that right with his actions the last half of the season. He deserves to be fired outright.
Maybe. I am not saying Judge has any rights. I want to give the new GM total reign, including firing the coach, if he wants to do that.
Lost decade incoming..........
Shit football is bad for business.
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In comment 15541337 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15541196 Reale01 said:
Quote:
There is no need to fire Judge today. Get the input from him. Hire a new GM. You HAVE to get that right. Let the GM run the show. He or she may decide to keep Judge or some of his coaches.
This too...
No, Judge lost that right with his actions the last half of the season. He deserves to be fired outright.
Maybe. I am not saying Judge has any rights. I want to give the new GM total reign, including firing the coach, if he wants to do that.
Clear the decks. You're assuming a new GM will want to talk to Judge and be tethered to having to make that observation and decision right off the bat.
Very few GMS would want that tar on them out the gate. They'd prefer a clear deck.
Shit football is bad for business.
Agreed.
He's going to agonize to find a reason to keep him, then fire him by november next year.
There's tons of coaches out there. Keeping Judge just guarantees several more years of mediocrity.
I can see it now. Judge wins six or seven games next season on softer schedule and convinces everyone he got a turnaround, then they crater or flatline again in 2023.
My fear is that Mara grew so comfortable with the idea of the team pointing up after last year, that he just can't pull the trigger now. He may look for a way to frame his decision to keep JJ and is counting on his snake oil to help him sell it. I hope I am wrong.
The idea of 'let the new GM pick' is unrealistic. Either he stays or does not. Any GM will have to be hired with a stance on JJ clear already. I am not sure what some people envisioning. A long conversation between the GM and Mara, and then careful deliberation about JJ's tenure, and then a decision? A new GM coming in would know whether they want JJ. Depending on Mara's stance, it would affect who is even interviewed.
We all saw and heard what we saw. He cannot handle the job. He is not a good coach right now. No half measures please!!!
I'm fucking done with this team if Judge is back.
More so than him being back is Mara’s wishy washiness. He went into that meeting with the idea of firing him but wanted to be talked out of it.
If you really believed in him you would have given a public vote of confidence weeks ago.
If you built this up to have a Monday morning meeting where you keep him you cannot fault fans are thinking you are either clueless, soft or both.
And why would we have a GM who needs to tear down, paired with a coach trying to win at all costs to retain his job. They need to cut high-priced players and set themselves up for 2023 now.
@JordanRaanan
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
"Nobody is more disappointed in this season than Joe. He knows he has to win more games."
THIS!
@JordanRaanan
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
Hahaha. What a clownshow.
@JordanRaanan
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
This is when it will all come out. Nothing will be leaked until like 2 minutes before
Yes, the longer we don't hear specifically that he is out or he is back means that Mara is putting it in the hands of the new GM.
Not the worst strategy by the way.
@JordanRaanan
There is definitely uncertainty from those inside the building on what ownership will do with Joe Judge. So they wait. Giants have a team meeting at noon. Judge and players are expected to do some Zoom press conferences after.
If Judge is "expected to do some Zoom press conferences after" team meeting doesn't this mean that he's still the HC?
Fired head coaches don't do (Zoom) press conferences right after they're fired.
Couldn't it just be: "What went wrong? How would you fix it going forward? Ok, Joe. We're hiring a new GM. He'll get back to you soon."
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Right. Which, alas, kills that notion.
That just doesn't make sense. It be a gutless move for an owner to leave the firing to an INCOMING GM.
You also want the new GM's first press conference to be an uplifting time, not one where he has to address whether or not he's going to fire Judge.
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
As long as you hire him with the ability to fire Judge, its no big deal. Trust me, a new GM is not going to want Joe Judge.
If they're going to let Joe Judge go, Mara's already proven with Gettleman that he has this desire to let them go on their own terms. I just can't fucking possibly comprehend they see any scenario where keeping Judge is the right move. It's just that obvious. So I'm wondering if they're going to let Judge speak to the media and tell the world they've "mutually decided to part ways" and suck each other off for 20 zoom minutes.
But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.
GM must be willing to work with Judge. And Jones.
Quote:
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?
And we better now see some long drawn-out GM search. They should have been thinking about this all year.
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to the new GM, but that would be considerable lost time in finding a new HC.
But you don't want to hire a coach until you have the GM lined up, so I don't see the downside to leaving it up to the new GM. Just hire the new GM quickly and they should be way ahead of the game on that because they have known for a while they will need one.
They can wait to hire the new HC, just get the bum HC out of the building sooner than later, so Mara isn't tempted to reverse course.
Quote:
In comment 15541624 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Literally doing nothing is all he has to do on this issue.
Get a GM, then step away and wait for the phone to ring.
Exactly just tell Judge that we are hiring a new GM and he will decide. you can make your case to him, but I am. not going to force his hand either way. Done. That is how a smart organization does it
Can you think of eve one "smart organization" that has actually let an incoming GM decide whehter he wants to keep the HC?
what is the difference? As long as we get rid of him, what does it matter?