What GM in their right mind wants to come here and be saddled with Judge? At this point, might as well make Abrams the GM in title and Judge the de facto GM.
Franchise has become a complete joke. Embarrassing. Time to take a break as a fan. Don’t give a shit about the draft picks with these clowns still running the show.
Truly insane to watch this season and bring back that coach. The coaches fired today are light years better than this clown.
That Garafolo mentioned people inside the building think he's safe, but he also mentioned he Judge hasn't met with ownership yet, so who knows right now?
preferably from outside the organization, and let that new GM make the call... Almost have Judge re-interview for the job after going over the previous two seasons with that new GM.
My only hope is that Judge can somehow revert to what we saw last year where there was definite promise being showed along with a dynamic OC coming in...
I am starting to wonder why I even bother dedicating so much time and thought to this team.
You put a pathetic display out there and marched a coach out there who talks like he has owned the league and is the master of all while displaying nothing but contempt for those who ask him questions and complete obliviousness to his repeated failings.
1) The team will have to hire a GM that will commit to Judge
2) Abrams will be retained
3) The Giants will have no cap room in 2022, hence the team will be as bad or worst than this year
4) After a horrendous start, Judge will be fired mid season
What GM in their right mind wants to come here and be saddled with Judge? At this point, might as well make Abrams the GM in title and Judge the de facto GM.
Agreed. This is a shit show. Let Judge and Abrams run it off a cliff next year, MAYBE that would spur Mara to make real changes. They might as well bring DG back next year.
Is repeating the same thing and expecting different results. And we as fans were insane for ever thinking that ownership was going to do anything other than this.
Remember today when they for Judge a year from now.
We could see this a 1000 miles away. I’ll be absolutely floored if Abrams isn’t the GM. In fact, I bet Gettleman is on the staff for a few more months.
1) The team will have to hire a GM that will commit to Judge
2) Abrams will be retained
3) The Giants will have no cap room in 2022, hence the team will be as bad or worst than this year
4) After a horrendous start, Judge will be fired mid season
Don't expect to be competitive until 2027 or so.
All correct, except they won't fire Judge midseason, unless he does something really embarrassing.
Remember today when they for Judge a year from now.
We could see this a 1000 miles away. I’ll be absolutely floored if Abrams isn’t the GM. In fact, I bet Gettleman is on the staff for a few more months.
"Well you see Getts has led all the scouting throughout the year so while Kevin will be running the draft David and Chris will be there as a resource for Kevin to use..."
1) The team will have to hire a GM that will commit to Judge
2) Abrams will be retained
3) The Giants will have no cap room in 2022, hence the team will be as bad or worst than this year
4) After a horrendous start, Judge will be fired mid season
Don't expect to be competitive until 2027 or so.
All correct, except they won't fire Judge midseason, unless he does something really embarrassing.
More embarrassing than the last few weeks?
This team is going to go 0-17 next year at this rate. And maybe they need to.
I stopped watching this year and will not watch again until they win. Mara is banking on Judge, I could be wrong but I will not be a sucker. I have my own personal win mandate
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
in media to hold the Giants to account for the dysfunctional, insulting mess they are.
Giants are laughingstock of the league and it's been that way through the Beckham outbursts under Coughlin at the end, historically bad defenses, Eli debacle with McAdoo, now historically bad offenses and wacky head coach.
I must agree. This would be a sign that Mara would rather have his fingers in the ingredients than let an outsider do the job without family interference.
i'll save more money in 2022 and not even think of going to a game. I will watch every week, probably bleed most weeks until the season's luster of hope washes away and be done with them for good by late October. Like every other year.
Don't go to games. Forget sending a message to Mara, and just save some money and spend it on something more meaningful.
in media to hold the Giants to account for the dysfunctional, insulting mess they are.
Giants are laughingstock of the league and it's been that way through the Beckham outbursts under Coughlin at the end, historically bad defenses, Eli debacle with McAdoo, now historically bad offenses and wacky head coach.
Agreed. Ive been chirping at the beats all weekend and Ralph and Art have been pretty damn defensive. They are afraid of upsetting the Maras.
Haven't both Mike G and Art said the mtg hasn't happned yet
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
If you're going to leave up to the new GM that sort of makes sense, but doesn't really feel like how Mara does business.
The idea that Judge is going to have a say in 5 and 7
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
They could’ve been interviewing people this entire time. Why were they wasting time before letting Gettleman “retire”??
I am starting to wonder why I even bother dedicating so much time and thought to this team.
You put a pathetic display out there and marched a coach out there who talks like he has owned the league and is the master of all while displaying nothing but contempt for those who ask him questions and complete obliviousness to his repeated failings.
you aren't alone... people will call me a fair weather fan for not investing much time into following the Giants over the past few years, but it's not worth the emotional and time investment
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
Makes sense. He does need to proceed as business as usual. Is Tisch on the west coast?
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
18m
I don't get the sense that much has changed since I wrote this Friday, except that a lot more people seem unsure about whether John Mara will fire Joe Judge.
Some of that may just be conjecture. Mara, who met with Judge this morning, is the only one who knows for sure.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
If you're going to leave up to the new GM that sort of makes sense, but doesn't really feel like how Mara does business.
That my last remaining hope…that they’ll still give new GM full autonomy to make a change at HC if he sees fit. But not optimistic they will
And anyone (not you Bill) that's abandoning this organization can feel free to take a walk... You are not a fan of this franchise... For christ's sake we've had 4 super bowl wins in 36 years - that's more than half of the franchises in this league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: All they are doing here is deferring the decision
We all know this team is going to suck again next season. The only exciting aspect for us fans to look forward to is the draft and a new GM. Any GM they hire will have complete say over Judge after next season. If Judge does well (8 win season) they look smart, if he does bad (5 wins or less) he is their sacrificial lamb for next year.
Their biggest worry is going out there with having to make two huge decisions on hiring at the same time and blowing them yet again. This way they take the heat in slices instead of chuncks
Let’s trade the 5 to Carolina for McCaffrey and their 2nd round and the 7 to Denver for Bridgewater and their second, because he beat us, and cluster draft OL in a deep OL draft, then we can run the ball with SB and CM.
But the way things are trending, this crew is ALL in on Jones.
I'm holding out hope they hire a new GM who isn't a Judge guy, and he boots Judge.
I don't see it happening right away. Paton was hired in Denver and waited a year to fire Fangio.
They're going to suck anyway, and with no answer at QB from the 2022 draft apparent, they could punt these decisions another year. But, if they elevate Abrams or hire one of Judge's fookin buddies for GM ...
would be gutless if he was actually going to hire someone from outside of the organization because he thinks he won't be held responsible. But we all know he is going to hire Abrams...
RE: RE: RE: All they are doing here is deferring the decision
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoSNY
58s
One correction to this: John Mara and Joe Judge have not had their meeting yet, I'm told. That is expected to happen this afternoon.
So the bottom line: Joe Judge is proceeding as if he'll be back as Giants coach, but that decision isn't necessarily final yet.
RE: RE: All they are doing here is deferring the decision
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
Oh please. The next GM is only getting the job if he says he can work with Judge.
The same reason Gettleman got the job. Because he said he can work with Eli.
It's a fucking sham.
So on one hand we want Mara out of football operations, but then we criticize him for not making a decision about football operations. All this is today is sharks circling in the water waiting for blood.
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
One correction to this: John Mara and Joe Judge have not had their meeting yet, I'm told. That is expected to happen this afternoon.
So the bottom line: Joe Judge is proceeding as if he'll be back as Giants coach, but that decision isn't necessarily final yet. Down pointing backhand index
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
One correction to this: John Mara and Joe Judge have not had their meeting yet, I'm told. That is expected to happen this afternoon.
So the bottom line: Joe Judge is proceeding as if he'll be back as Giants coach, but that decision isn't necessarily final yet. Down pointing backhand index
What kind of sense does this make? This meeting should have happened at 8am.
I’m excited to see what creative ways some of our more loyal BBIers will defend these moves.
My favorite so far is the draft picks have played better.
It's all about continuity. This will give the young players a chance to continue to grow in the same system. That is the most important things. stability and continuity!
The simple fact that this guy was fired first thing this morning speaks volumes about this franchise. I don’t want to hear about letting the new GM decide. There is zero reason to let this guy stay.
The simple fact that this guy was fired first thing this morning speaks volumes about this franchise. I don’t want to hear about letting the new GM decide. There is zero reason to let this guy stay.
* was not fired
I have never been more disappointed in Giants football as I have today
I hope Judge rebounds in some amazing fashion and shoves it up everyone's ass a la Parcells after 83' and Coughlin after 06'
When there is this much fire and brimstone, and their backs against the wall, the Giants usually find a way to perform better than expectations. Guess we'll see.
The only glimmer of hope I'm clinging to is it was Josina breaking the news. We all know her "ins" are mainly with players and Judge had the noon call with the team scheduled. Maybe it could be as simple as whoever she spoke to just assumed Judge is coming back because the meeting was called.
Aren't Josina Anderson's sources usually players? Hence she probably got texts about the players mtg? As far as I know she had no sources in the org other than Odell and JackRabbit.
And anyone (not you Bill) that's abandoning this organization can feel free to take a walk... You are not a fan of this franchise... For christ's sake we've had 4 super bowl wins in 36 years - that's more than half of the franchises in this league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They'll all be back when the team starts winning.
How when that is......not sure lol
You just stop caring as much for awhile, until it's time to start caring again.
The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, so they approached the lion.
As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming: ′′Your Highness, isn't it true that the grass is blue?"
The lion replied: "If you believe it is true, the grass is blue."
The donkey rushed forward and continued: ′′The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. Please punish him."
The king then declared: ′′The tiger will be punished with 3 days of silence."
The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating ′′The grass is blue, the grass is blue..."
The tiger asked the lion, "Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, the grass is green?"
The lion replied, ′′You've known and seen the grass is green."
The tiger asked, ′′So why do you punish me?"
The lion replied, "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass, and on top of that, you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true!"
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on discussions that make no sense. There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand. Others who are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and the only thing that they want is to be right even if they aren’t.
Aren't Josina Anderson's sources usually players? Hence she probably got texts about the players mtg? As far as I know she had no sources in the org other than Odell and JackRabbit.
It seems she often sources players, but I don't know on this one. But, not meeting with Mara yet suggests to me she's possibly jumped the gun.
turned it around from a low point like this without some kind of major regime change. I can't think of one. It would be absolutely unprecedented if this actually worked out for the Giants.
But if he’s not…ready to accept it and root like hell.
Look at it this way - do or die for him next year. New GM this year, rebuild starts. New coach and new QB after next year if team doesn’t compete.
Fully expecting another losing season with Judge… but I am a fan for life. Still sucks though, just don’t see him turning things around
That's great. We are 3 years away but let's go all in to make sure our coach can continue in his job. And what self-respecting GM would agree to work with a coach who can't do his job and then embarrasses himself and the team in almost every press conference. Not going to work! I have never been more done with this team.
I hope Judge rebounds in some amazing fashion and shoves it up everyone's ass a la Parcells after 83' and Coughlin after 06'
When there is this much fire and brimstone, and their backs against the wall, the Giants usually find a way to perform better than expectations. Guess we'll see.
Someone save this thread.
Let's go Giants!
whatever makes you feel better about yourself. Coughlin and Parcells shouldnt even be mentioned seriously in the same breath as joe judge
my #1 choice for GM is to just promote Abrams. Make this duo prove it or lose it before bringing in an outside GM.
And when an outside GM is needed next season, it's the long needed full cleaning of house, and do it in the correct order. Fire them all. Hire a GM. GM hire coach. GM and coach draft (or elsewhere find) your QB.
Cannot stand this fraud of a coach. He is a snake oil salesman with a huge ego that does all possible to convince even the brightest of fans that results are those things you can't see and quantify! The Jester of the Mara Clown Court!
It took several days for confirmation of Coughlin coming back in 2006 after meeting with owners for several days and him laying out the plans for the future, hiring a new DC, relating to players better, etc. They also promoted Reese to GM that year as well.
Not saying these situations are one in the same or that Judge will be the next Coughlin after getting better OC, or whoever else in here. But it's a good point that the situation is probably fluid and nothing is set in stone just yet.
And anyone (not you Bill) that's abandoning this organization can feel free to take a walk... You are not a fan of this franchise... For christ's sake we've had 4 super bowl wins in 36 years - that's more than half of the franchises in this league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They'll all be back when the team starts winning.
How when that is......not sure lol
You just stop caring as much for awhile, until it's time to start caring again.
The product is unwatchable, and it’s been like this for going on 10 years now. You want a cookie or something?
It took several days for confirmation of Coughlin coming back in 2006 after meeting with owners for several days and him laying out the plans for the future, hiring a new DC, relating to players better, etc. They also promoted Reese to GM that year as well.
Not saying these situations are one in the same or that Judge will be the next Coughlin after getting better OC, or whoever else in here. But it's a good point that the situation is probably fluid and nothing is set in stone just yet.
But Tom Coughlin deserved that. He took Jacksonville, an expansion team, to a couple of AFC Championship games. He had a 14-2 regular season on his CV there. He was 11-5 and won a division title in 2005 with the Giants
Judge cannot call plays for shit. Mara needs to tell him to have the offensive coaching gutted(I mean Freddie Kitchens did not sign up for this, he is only TE coach) and then needs to not stomp on the decision making. Honestly Garrett was not great but not the problem-it's JJ being a dickhead
RE: RE: One good point that MG made a few moments ago...
It took several days for confirmation of Coughlin coming back in 2006 after meeting with owners for several days and him laying out the plans for the future, hiring a new DC, relating to players better, etc. They also promoted Reese to GM that year as well.
Not saying these situations are one in the same or that Judge will be the next Coughlin after getting better OC, or whoever else in here. But it's a good point that the situation is probably fluid and nothing is set in stone just yet.
But Tom Coughlin deserved that. He took Jacksonville, an expansion team, to a couple of AFC Championship games. He had a 14-2 regular season on his CV there. He was 11-5 and won a division title in 2005 with the Giants
I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to make a direct comparison between Coughlin and Judge, or their respective resumes in 2006 (Coughlin) and now (Judge), just that I think MG makes a good point in that a decision/confirmation may not be forthcoming today and that it could take several days for things to materialize. Maybe they hear him (Judge out on his plans), get interviews for GM's lined up and in the process learn who may or may not want to work with Judge and therefore let the new GM make the decision.
Who the hell knows. My hope is that they get the best candidates for GM in for interviews and whoever they hire, let that person make the decision.
Mike G's note that Judge has not yet met with the owners etc is still a lever for Mara to pull and give him the boot.
Doubt it. Bringing up 2006 is to show that they took their time and really weighed the choice, but ultimately the coach was back then, and will be again. A conditioning exercise.
If Mara is bringing back Judge, he has to show the fans that it was a struggle and there were very good reasons (Judge's presented plan) for bringing him back.
Otherwise if Judge was announced as back yesterday or today it might make the owners look even more foolish because they know they are going against the blood lust majority and need to at least pretend they care.
If this news is getting out there I would lean that Judge is back.
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
And now Mara may keep the guy who left the car on the tracks, and, after falling for his excuses, tell us all with determination that Judge will clean everything up “the Giants way”
Mara has not shown by any measure that he can make a good decision. The guy is a fucking joke! A joke!
100% Agreed. Mgmt. in this organization now is a disgrace - look to Philly last year when we were all screams at the Eagles for giving up, they proceeded to fire their coach - and we're just going to sit on our hands. Damn joke!
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
If he is disliked this widely in the organization… why is he still here?
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
If he is disliked this widely in the organization… why is he still here?
because Mara doesnt want to pay 3 coaches and has no balls
2022 is not going to be a good one for the team in terms of wins and losses, so it is not the end of the world for Joe Judge to still be here as the SS NYG settles onto the ocean floor.
Then a new coach at the end of next season can be brought in to begin the long-awaited salvage job.
2022 is not going to be a good one for the team in terms of wins and losses, so it is not the end of the world for Joe Judge to still be here as the SS NYG settles onto the ocean floor.
Then a new coach at the end of next season can be brought in to begin the long-awaited salvage job.
2022 is not going to be a good one for the team in terms of wins and losses, so it is not the end of the world for Joe Judge to still be here as the SS NYG settles onto the ocean floor.
Then a new coach at the end of next season can be brought in to begin the long-awaited salvage job.
Abrams will find just the right guy with BC/Notre Dame and Parcells/Belichick connections.
Play it out in your mind: Judge stays Giants suck, but near infinite excuses why; new GM, new position coaches, have to wait for new roster to learn 'The Giants Way," etc. He's good until late in the year, maybe '23. Then gets shit canned. New coach working with old, or ANOTHER new GM = chaos. Ever continuing roster rebuild as focus keeps shifting.
Yup, do it all now, or write off at least the next five years.
With Judge being retained despite two years of abject failure, it has gotten way, way worse.
This might be the lowest point in recent memory. That's in Mara.
Might be? Look at the last month or so between the product on thr field, Judge's behavior, leaks from he building and Hanlon's response...They're the laughingstock of the NFL.
I really hope (and think) that this means "for now."
The letter to STH did not mention Judge: a bad sign for him in my opinion. Second, it does mention that the GM will be in charge of hiring the coaching.
Why would you go either way (fire or keep) with Judge until you've made a GM hire? If you want to keep Judge, fine -- the new GM has to accept that. If you're really giving the GM the ability to hire coaching, then you have to wait until after they get here to do that.
The new GM will have the coaches report to him. In this situation, why should the owners fire Judge? If they do, who is conducting the HC search?
I don’t get why everyone is so upset.
You want the Giants to operate like a competent business? This is how a competent business functions.
Exactly. And Judge has to pretend he's going to ace the interview for this job. So, he's acting like he's going to be the coach. It all makes sense, but I don't trust this organization at all. Let's see what happens.
The only problem is NFL commissioners today are just the owners' lap dogs. The days of strong commissioners like Rozelle are long gone.
If the Giants truly do keep Judge; and hire a Judge puppet as GM; the owners are setting themselves up for pretty ugly crowds at the games. If they get off to a 0-3 or 1-4 start, I can see fans going after Mara hard. He didn't like to get booed at Eli Day, wait until fans come to the stadium and and hang Mara in effigy.
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
I don’t want Judge back either, but that’s rich coming from a RB who retired a year before we won the Super Bowl then complained publicly about how the coach was so hard on him
One playoff appearance in 10 years is bottom of the league ineptitude. The ownership does not know how to improve things so here we are. Judge was in the room when Glennon was signed as the backup and Toney was chosen. Judge is an anchor on this team going forward.
But if he’s not…ready to accept it and root like hell.
Look at it this way - do or die for him next year. New GM this year, rebuild starts. New coach and new QB after next year if team doesn’t compete.
Fully expecting another losing season with Judge… but I am a fan for life. Still sucks though, just don’t see him turning things around
That's great. We are 3 years away but let's go all in to make sure our coach can continue in his job. And what self-respecting GM would agree to work with a coach who can't do his job and then embarrasses himself and the team in almost every press conference. Not going to work! I have never been more done with this team.
Maybe you're missing the point here. There is no disagreement about how pissed off, disappointed, fed up we are with the team and want Judge gone. Fine. What he's saying is that he's a fan and will continue to root like hell for the team, as will I. The regime does suck and I will criticize the heck out of them, but on Sunday I will still be a Giants fan and root like hell for them. Tha's all.
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
I don’t want Judge back either, but that’s rich coming from a RB who retired a year before we won the Super Bowl then complained publicly about how the coach was so hard on him
It wasn't Barber per se, it was Glazer who reported that. Barber mentioned as a former player he was a little surprised and asked Glazer to confirm what was meant by the tweets.
the locker room stuff seems like absolute garbage to me
Yup I smell a rat on that stuff. I’m sure he does rub several players wrong, and for example if it’s the likes of Golladay bc he calls him out for not playing hard, or Will Hernandez bc he still hasn’t figured out how to pick up a stunt, then I’m good with it
Our problem is Judge hasn’t delivered results to back up his attitude. Much like most former Belichick assistants
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
I don’t want Judge back either, but that’s rich coming from a RB who retired a year before we won the Super Bowl then complained publicly about how the coach was so hard on him
It wasn't Barber per se, it was Glazer who reported that. Barber mentioned as a former player he was a little surprised and asked Glazer to confirm what was meant by the tweets.
the locker room stuff seems like absolute garbage to me
Yup I smell a rat on that stuff. I’m sure he does rub several players wrong, and for example if it’s the likes of Golladay bc he calls him out for not playing hard, or Will Hernandez bc he still hasn’t figured out how to pick up a stunt, then I’m good with it
Our problem is Judge hasn’t delivered results to back up his attitude. Much like most former Belichick assistants
That's the problem. I think Judge's honeymoon ended pretty quickly this year. Losing can make things more rotten inside than they appear outside in the kind of parity-driven high octane league we are seeing now.
Heck, some spoiled Pats fans and some of their own players were whining about Belichick 2 years after a SB win!
the locker room stuff seems like absolute garbage to me
Yup I smell a rat on that stuff. I’m sure he does rub several players wrong, and for example if it’s the likes of Golladay bc he calls him out for not playing hard, or Will Hernandez bc he still hasn’t figured out how to pick up a stunt, then I’m good with it
Our problem is Judge hasn’t delivered results to back up his attitude. Much like most former Belichick assistants
Really?
You find it hard to believe that the players secretly don't like the NFL coach that treats the NYG like a high school team?
The ex-NFL players that are now talking heads talked a lot about his act doesn't play...and you think that it's made up...or coming from two guys....
Judge seems to inject himself into their plans anyway. Why not just have Judge be the OC, DC, and ST coordinator
.
They better have told him to make some serious changes on that coaching staff.
People like Freddie Kitchens to start.
They can use a new ST coordinator as well. They can keep
Graham around if they want, he's not part of the problem.
Let the new OC call the damn plays.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Five players have spoken to reporters following Judge's standard season-ending team meeting. They've all said there was no announcement from Judge that he'll be back. Just a business-as-usual approach like at the end of any season.
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
I can't imagine any GM coming here not named Gettlemen or Abrams. Imagine trying to fix this crappy situation when you can't replace the HC, who will have political power over you with the owner?
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
A GM isn't firing the HC later this month. So Judge is here for 2022 season, wasting another season and off-season.
Agreed. Nobody will be hired as GM unless they agree that Judge will be here for at least 2022, which means we don't get the best candidates, and another year is wasted.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Five players have spoken to reporters following Judge's standard season-ending team meeting. They've all said there was no announcement from Judge that he'll be back. Just a business-as-usual approach like at the end of any season.
Let me guess, he saw some good things out there and the foundation is in place
They have zero connection to the fan base which they think is OK and we know nothing
I guess they are looking to continue to lose fan base and $$ with this clown
I have already stopped making the trek from philly each year for 2x games after they hired DG.
Zero chance I spend a dime on this team with Joe Judge as coach. Multiply me x a bunch of fans and hopefully it starts to hit the bottom line over the next 12 months to see an impact
If I ran my business this way, I would be fired and broke.
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
I can't imagine any GM coming here not named Gettlemen or Abrams. Imagine trying to fix this crappy situation when you can't replace the HC, who will have political power over you with the owner?
That's could be a bridge too far. Maybe a GM will get that power but will use 2022 to form his opinion.
are doing what's right for the Mara's. Marginalize the GM position so they can get a candidate who will agree to their terms which are their continued involvement in the football operations. This is proof POSITIVE they don't give a crap about the fans and winning comes second to playing with their toy.
but at least the giants don't have to endure 2-3 more years of a new HC that sucks balls. We can just ensure 1 more year of Judge and then move on.
part of thinks that's a big deal. Other than Harbaugh there are no real intriguing HC candidates. The only thing worse than keeping Judge is hiring another Judge right now. That is much worse.
Maybe there will be much better HC candidates next year. Fuck's sake I cannot even fool myself into looking forward to next season. All I have is praying that Dallas gets knocked out before February. Assholes.
reported today that Mara is really concerned with the number of people who did not renew their season tickets last year. (And this was coming off Judge year 1 where the fanbase was bought in.)
I can't imagine he is this dumb to bring Judge back given the above. There are tons of people looking to either sell their PSL for peanuts or eat the cost without renewing.
He isn't there to be liked. After a season like this, the HC should be being somewhere between grumpy as fuck and a miserable bastard. Not saying this in "defense of Judge," but these reports that he "isn't liked" are meaningless.
NOBODY like Coughlin either. He, and his ways were wildly unpopular with everyone. Remember, when he said,"Yeah, there's Hitler, then there's me."
Until they started winning. Winning cures everything.
reported today that Mara is really concerned with the number of people who did not renew their season tickets last year. (And this was coming off Judge year 1 where the fanbase was bought in.)
I can't imagine he is this dumb to bring Judge back given the above. There are tons of people looking to either sell their PSL for peanuts or eat the cost without renewing.
Thats what im doing, ill eat the cost. Even if I want to go to 2 games next year it will cost $200-300 total. Better than dropping 2-3k a season.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Five players have spoken to reporters following Judge's standard season-ending team meeting. They've all said there was no announcement from Judge that he'll be back. Just a business-as-usual approach like at the end of any season.
And there you have it. Judge is coach until he's fired, and the owners have said the new GM will be in charge of coaching. HOPEFULLY, if the new GM says Judge is out, then he's out. But I don't know why we think the owners would fire the coach when they are doing what they should do: hire a football guy to make football decisions.
If they hire Abrams, all bets are off. But calling for the owners to fire Judge is inconsistent with wanting them not to meddle.
He isn't there to be liked. After a season like this, the HC should be being somewhere between grumpy as fuck and a miserable bastard. Not saying this in "defense of Judge," but these reports that he "isn't liked" are meaningless.
NOBODY like Coughlin either. He, and his ways were wildly unpopular with everyone. Remember, when he said,"Yeah, there's Hitler, then there's me."
Until they started winning. Winning cures everything.
The problem is Coughlin had a resume of success as program builder with bonus familiarity of being in prior Giants tenure under Parcells. He built the Jaguars as an expansion team to several playoff appearances and AFCC game, and also helped Boston College get back on track.
Judge has no track record of knowing how to win. He looks clueless and his team is noncompetitive.
One playoff appearance in 10 years is bottom of the league ineptitude. The ownership does not know how to improve things so here we are. Judge was in the room when Glennon was signed as the backup and Toney was chosen. Judge is an anchor on this team going forward.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I am okay with Judge for another year
reported today that Mara is really concerned with the number of people who did not renew their season tickets last year. (And this was coming off Judge year 1 where the fanbase was bought in.)
I can't imagine he is this dumb to bring Judge back given the above. There are tons of people looking to either sell their PSL for peanuts or eat the cost without renewing.
Thats what im doing, ill eat the cost. Even if I want to go to 2 games next year it will cost $200-300 total. Better than dropping 2-3k a season.
It is a much better idea to buy a couple games a year than buy PSLs anyway. That's what I would do if I was starting over. But there are no costs for holding on to PSLs and selling the tix. The last three years, I've sold my whole season for face in the spring. Now that my 11 year old wants to go (whether the Giants win or not), we upgraded our tix. I went for that because I have faith the Giants aren't always going to be garbage. At some point they're going to be good, and I'd rather sell my PSLs when they are actually worth something and make my money back rather than walk away.
I'll be one of many not supporting this team until things change. I like Saleh, but I hate the ownership at the Jets. I might pull for them. This is bullshit. And this is not 1975 anymore, adapt or die. This level of stuck in the mud just won't fly these days, and I'm a gen Xer, not even a millennial. Been a fan since 1982, and I have a family. My time and cognitive space is so much more valuable than this shitshow.
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
DG has had four bad years in a row, and it's not like he gave JJ a formidable roster to work with. Everyone knew there'd be growing pains with a young inexperienced HC, but here we are two years later looking to replace him. What if he was on record telling DG that he needed better OL but got overrulled by the braintrust/family?
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
I think you guys are all missing the big picture here
Everything Mara does is based on public perception. He’s paranoid of having the organization appear to be unstable (they are). That’s why he “really” doesn’t want to fire a third coach in a row this quick. HOWEVER, even Mara and Tisch have to see how toxic this guy is and what a horrible coach he is. I think they WANT to fire him but are afraid of how it will look!
The only way out of this for them is to bring in a new GM (hires henchman) and have him do it. Then they can sugarcoat it as “the new GM is charting a new course for us and we are on board”. It’s bull crap but I can see it going down this way.
Strangely, I would be OK with it.
one who would rather have a new HC, but also don't think it is the end of the world if JJ returns.
He's on the hot seat. That means he is NOT running the show in regards to personnel decisions and GM hire. He gets a voice. Doesn't mean his will is fiat. A coach on the hot seat sees his power waning, not increasing.
As M.S. said, 2022 is not going to be a pleasant year no matter what. The cap situation means limited FA acquisitions. We're stuck with draft as the main means of improvement, and guess what? the scouting evaluation upon which the board will be set is going to be the same no matter what. Scouting overhaul will affect next year, not this year. Draft decisions will likely be made by the new GM, not Judge.
An overhaul of the offense assistants/coordinator could mean improved offense.
The new GM will be able to assess the situation and make a rational decision. Y'all don't want the Maras making the calls, yet y'all are begging for them to make this call.
RE: I think you guys are all missing the big picture here
Everything Mara does is based on public perception. He’s paranoid of having the organization appear to be unstable (they are). That’s why he “really” doesn’t want to fire a third coach in a row this quick. HOWEVER, even Mara and Tisch have to see how toxic this guy is and what a horrible coach he is. I think they WANT to fire him but are afraid of how it will look!
The only way out of this for them is to bring in a new GM (hires henchman) and have him do it. Then they can sugarcoat it as “the new GM is charting a new course for us and we are on board”. It’s bull crap but I can see it going down this way.
Strangely, I would be OK with it.
you do understand that certain GM's might turn down an interview if the perception is the Giants are keeping Judge right.
Its not like in the phone call they can say hey don't turn us down because you will get the chance to fire him. Some guys will believe we are running a clown org and will turn down the interview on this outward perception.
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
Please provide the metric that tells us he is better than ever other loser to come of the BB tree?
I can't, but I also never really adopted the metric system...
Some of you guys need to have your sarcasm radar adjusted...
Googs' initial post was not serious.
Yeah it was actually serious.
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I am okay with Judge for another year
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
Haha. Very funny Jimmy.
wait so is this true or not? if this is just a rumor, why is this
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
A GM isn't firing the HC later this month. So Judge is here for 2022 season, wasting another season and off-season.
Agreed. Nobody will be hired as GM unless they agree that Judge will be here for at least 2022, which means we don't get the best candidates, and another year is wasted.
I wouldn't say JUST another year is wasted. If this eliminates good GM candidates, the impact could be much longer than a year.
RE: wait so is this true or not? if this is just a rumor, why is this
No one knows for sure, but the source in this case was a legitimate report.
The issue is, it seems to be true but its not the whole picture. No one from the Giants has said Judge will be the HC next year. They just haven't said he's fired. The statement to the STH said they will let the GM make coaching decisions.
This is what they've said. We don't know if they are interviewing GM candidates bases on candidates wanting to keep Judge around, but that wouldn't surprise me although I hope its not true.
RE: RE: wait so is this true or not? if this is just a rumor, why is this
Brought up. I apologize if it has been. It’s possible Judge hasn’t been fired yet because the new GM will make that decision. The real question is, will John Mara relay his opinions on what to do with Judge to GM candidates, or will he give them complete autonomy.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
There are now multiple GM openings, many of them also HC openings. Why would a potential GM come to the Giants and have forced upon him a HC and QB he didn't pick and doesn't want, when he can just go elsewhere and make his own decisions and HC/QB picks?
He wouldn't. And they won't. Quite frankly, if you are trying to promote Abrams to be the new GM this is the way you would do it.
RE: I haven’t read through this entire thread so this may have been
Brought up. I apologize if it has been. It’s possible Judge hasn’t been fired yet because the new GM will make that decision. The real question is, will John Mara relay his opinions on what to do with Judge to GM candidates, or will he give them complete autonomy.
That is actually the real CHANGE we are looking for. Now, is that what actually happens?
RE: I haven’t read through this entire thread so this may have been
Brought up. I apologize if it has been. It’s possible Judge hasn’t been fired yet because the new GM will make that decision. The real question is, will John Mara relay his opinions on what to do with Judge to GM candidates, or will he give them complete autonomy.
Mara will only hire someone who will be ok with keeping Judge meaning either Abrams or someone who has a previous relationship with Judge.
The whole GM search is going to be a joke and the best candidates will run far away from this clownshow .
Fuck Mara for what he has done to this franchise
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I am okay with Judge for another year
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
The problem with your logic is that if he is brought back with a new GM, the he is not back for 1 year. THey will give the combo GM, HC a 2 year window... So if you bring him back it is for years 3 AND 4, unless the wheels come off completely (well the already did), so not just the wheels, the engine needs to fall out as well.
Absolutely atrocious decision if this ends up being true.
You’re eliminating GM candidates by keep Judge on board. Those not willing to work with Judge can’t be considered as candidates.
Not only that, this teams to completely revamp the offensive coaching staff. Who the hell wants to come and work for Joe Judge during a lame duck season? You’re not going to get any of the top OC talent to come work in this situation.
Rip the damn band aid off, start fresh with a new GM and new coaching staff!
The Bears, Broncos, Vikings, Dolphins all fired their coaches. Why are the Giants the only franchise who still haven't made a decision on whether their coach is coming back ?
Because Mara cannot make decisive decisions and is not fit to be making them in the 1st place. The only thing guaranteed is he will fuck this up like he has for the last 10 years
I’ve never seen Giants fans so collectively pissed off, embarrassed and yet also apathetic. Judge could hypothetically turn into an OK coach, but it sure as hell isn’t going to be with the 2022 iteration of a talentless team with fans breathing down his neck from the start of the preseason. They need to blow this whole regime up and start over from scratch. The organization is at risk of seriously losing fans forever if this ineptitude drags out another year or two
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
The problem with your logic is that if he is brought back with a new GM, the he is not back for 1 year. THey will give the combo GM, HC a 2 year window... So if you bring him back it is for years 3 AND 4, unless the wheels come off completely (well the already did), so not just the wheels, the engine needs to fall out as well.
That's not my logic.
Why does there have to inherently be an additional 2-year window on Judge?
There are still people here that buy Mara's bullshit. Do you really think all of a sudden he is going to cede all football decisions to a GM instead of his friends and family?
Literally the only reason Mara is pretending to let this decision be made by a new GM is to divert the responsibility so he can say "see we hired Scott Pioli and he wants to keep Judge. It's not my decision guys, it's the new GM's totally unbiased decision and we definitly did not force it on him in the interviews or anything"
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
I'm not sure what could possibly be said that could explain how awful this team has played for the whole year after spending an absurd amount of money.
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
No offense, but assumptions like this isn’t healthy. History will suggest you’re correct, but I wouldn’t assume it as fact. Let’s see how this plays out.
One playoff appearance in 10 years is bottom of the league ineptitude. The ownership does not know how to improve things so here we are. Judge was in the room when Glennon was signed as the backup and Toney was chosen. Judge is an anchor on this team going forward.
He's not the only one.
GO watch that video that the NFL network or ESPN had of the GIants war room when that Toney pick was made. Check out who's with who and the body language in the room.
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
No offense, but assumptions like this isn’t healthy. History will suggest you’re correct, but I wouldn’t assume it as fact. Let’s see how this plays out.
History is usually more correct than blind hopr
is this even confirmed? if he stays now bc they are waiting on a GM
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
From the sounds of it - Mara likely told Judge he is going to let the new GM decide who the coaches are.
people losing their minds in this and other threads
Mara put out a statement saying the new GM will control the football operations including coaches. Obviously we need to see that happen and it starts with the new GM making a decision about Judge and the rest of the staff. For all we know Mara told Judge to lose yesterdays game no matter what.
I am not defending Judge and personally think he deserves to go...based on the fact that he has nothing to contribute to offensive and defensive game planning. But let things play out.
There are still people here that buy Mara's bullshit. Do you really think all of a sudden he is going to cede all football decisions to a GM instead of his friends and family?
Literally the only reason Mara is pretending to let this decision be made by a new GM is to divert the responsibility so he can say "see we hired Scott Pioli and he wants to keep Judge. It's not my decision guys, it's the new GM's totally unbiased decision and we definitly did not force it on him in the interviews or anything"
It's either going to be Abrams or a fake "outsider" like Scott Pioli.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
Overinflated Expectations always ends in disappointment and anger. This message board is filled with people who make their own misery but blame others.
There are still people here that buy Mara's bullshit. Do you really think all of a sudden he is going to cede all football decisions to a GM instead of his friends and family?
Literally the only reason Mara is pretending to let this decision be made by a new GM is to divert the responsibility so he can say "see we hired Scott Pioli and he wants to keep Judge. It's not my decision guys, it's the new GM's totally unbiased decision and we definitly did not force it on him in the interviews or anything"
It's either going to be Abrams or a fake "outsider" like Scott Pioli.
Like it or not...Mara is not going to hire someone as GM that he does not trust or know. It might well end up being Pioli who has experience and would be qualified to take over all football operations. He would command respect in the building immediately.
anywhere, hoping that it was premature and Mara is truly going to let the GM fire him if they want. If anything problem so that he doesn't have to do it himself. But that would be the best news possible.
The O-line we had wasn't good enough,the team wasn't good enough, you all demanded it be torn down,howled for TC to be fired and ELI run out of town. You were warned of the vast empty expanse of endless wasteland ahead as you scoffed. You all laughed, as you demanded head after head, year after year, and this weak owner obeyed. The same dopes who insisted, collectively, vets don't need camp, and the injured would have no reason not to be just as they were before thier injuries.Now you have this. Enjoy. You people don't deserve nice things. Go play golf. No more Giants for you. Go savage some other team, in some other sport.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
Overinflated Expectations always ends in disappointment and anger. This message board is filled with people who make their own misery but blame others.
The O-line we had wasn't good enough,the team wasn't good enough, you all demanded it be torn down,howled for TC to be fired and ELI run out of town. You were warned of the vast empty expanse of endless wasteland ahead as you scoffed. You all laughed, as you demanded head after head, year after year, and this weak owner obeyed. The same dopes who insisted, collectively, vets don't need camp, and the injured would have no reason not to be just as they were before thier injuries.Now you have this. Enjoy. You people don't deserve nice things. Go play golf. No more Giants for you. Go savage some other team, in some other sport.
Totally agree. Fans are dummies.
Bring back Coughlin, McAdoo, Eli, John Jerry and the rest of the guys. They deserve another chance...
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Mara ran away the day they benched Eli Manning and acted like he didn't know, that is how big of a coward he is. Like many in this country they are born into money and are total fucking idiots. Of coarse if Judge is fired the new GM will have to do it. Did he fire Gettleman? The cowards way all the way. He is not classy, he is a gutless moron that I inherited the Mona Lisa and turned it into subway graffiti. Fuck him, after 60 years I am finished with this piece of fucking shit organization.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Let them just put a new GM in place that we hope is competent.
Not sure we need to focus in on next year's unknown injuries just yet...
let him do his thing, and assuming he didn't have a ready made sure fire lock HC in mind this very moment, which admittedly is a stretch, but let's say he liked a few guys but there's no sure fire lock HC out there, we let the GM methodically do his thing here and if needed he can wack the HC next December or so and hire his guy.
I didn't want Judge back so I can't sit here now and say this is a good thing, but I still say the worse possible scenario is not keeping Judge, it's firing Judge and hiring another bad candidate.
Judge can easily be fired next year. The GM will have the power to do so if and when this team sucks again. If we fired Judge now and hired some new guy, we aren't firing that new guy next year even if they went 1-16. Now if Judge goes 6-11 he's outta here.
Not good, but not the worst thing either. The key is to get the right GM in here and draft well this coming April.
keep nuking the Giants, players, personel, execs on every form of Social Media you have access to.
I went thru this process with the University of Miami, Incompetence ingrained in the leadership position cannot be tolerated or allowed to survive.
Blast them. Make them afraid or weary to post anything on Social Media. Do the same to the local reporters and make it abundantly clear that any credibility or ability to draw subscriptions or clicks to their work rests on them holding Mara's feet to the fire and the dismissal of judge.
he'd fire Judge just "because" and force the new GM to hire anyone and attach himself to the hip. Then take a guess what happens this time next year if they go 4-13. New GM is now on notice along with the new HC. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe just maybe the Giants felt underwhelmed by the HC candidates out there. I know I am. Other than Harbaugh you can have the rest.
my theory only holds water if the new GM wants to wait or kind of wants to wait on the new HC hire. If I knew for a fact the new GM was lukewarm on Judge or even completely disgusted with Judge but didn't love any of the candidates out there, i'd be fine with this. If I knew the new GM had his new hire in mind and he's available? I'd be sick over this. I choose to believe the former, but I can see why NYG nation is miserable right now. Judge sure as hell hasn't sparked any confidence.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Let them just put a new GM in place that we hope is competent.
Not sure we need to focus in on next year's unknown injuries just yet...
LOL, my post was in reference to all you nervous nellies.
What did LT tell Parcells in 1986? Stop griping, we're gonna win............
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Let them just put a new GM in place that we hope is competent.
Not sure we need to focus in on next year's unknown injuries just yet...
LOL, my post was in reference to all you nervous nellies.
What did LT tell Parcells in 1986? Stop griping, we're gonna win............
two potential replacements become available in Harbaugh and Flores. It is so disconcerting that with these 2 names as possibilities, the Giants are still so stuck on keeping Judge. Why not at least consider these options and let a new GM make the call?
They are going outside their comfort zone of close associates for a new GM. I don't think there is any possible way they would retain Judge and promote Abrams also. The fall out to that would be too big
They are going outside their comfort zone of close associates for a new GM. I don't think there is any possible way they would retain Judge and promote Abrams also. The fall out to that would be too big
montanagiant - Even if true, it's not a good sign. I think you are eliminating a lot of serious potential candidates by mandating Judge. I think if all things were equal, the Giants GM job could be a highly sought after one. But, when you require Judge as part of the deal, you eliminate some highly qualified candidates, meaning you are not choosing from the best.
Now, on the other hand, I do not think the HC job is one many established coaches would want.
To me, the only way it makes sense to not fire him immediately
is to truly give the new GM autonomy in this decision. But, this would require a quick process to hire the GM and to allow that person to make a quick decision.
They are going outside their comfort zone of close associates for a new GM. I don't think there is any possible way they would retain Judge and promote Abrams also. The fall out to that would be too big
montanagiant - Even if true, it's not a good sign. I think you are eliminating a lot of serious potential candidates by mandating Judge. I think if all things were equal, the Giants GM job could be a highly sought after one. But, when you require Judge as part of the deal, you eliminate some highly qualified candidates, meaning you are not choosing from the best.
Now, on the other hand, I do not think the HC job is one many established coaches would want.
I see that Matt, I think the way they sell it is to give the new GM carte Blanche after reviewing Judge and Jones next season. That means to any GM he has mulligan his first season and that is understood by all parties
RE: To me, the only way it makes sense to not fire him immediately
is to truly give the new GM autonomy in this decision. But, this would require a quick process to hire the GM and to allow that person to make a quick decision.
Exactly. That is indeed the flaw. Unless the GM is hired tonight or tomorrow, any GM would be considerably behind competing with other teams in need of a HC, too.
Remember, and I posted this earlier, Mara said after firing Reese and McAdoo in 2017 that it was "ideal" to allow the GM to hire the coach he wants. So, he seemingly knows what the order should be...
Which only indicates to me he really wants to keep Judge and will underscore that with any GM he interviews. Implying that if the GM really wants the role, keeping Judge would be a big plus.
Had they fired DG during the season, we would be much further long in the GM search. The critical piece. It's unbelievable Mara was willing to late DG exit gracefully, but he was cold and ruthless firing a 2X SB winning GM and his last HC to get NYG to the playoffs so he could conduct the fake GM search for DG.
RE: RE: To me, the only way it makes sense to not fire him immediately
is to truly give the new GM autonomy in this decision. But, this would require a quick process to hire the GM and to allow that person to make a quick decision.
Exactly. That is indeed the flaw. Unless the GM is hired tonight or tomorrow, any GM would be considerably behind competing with other teams in need of a HC, too.
Remember, and I posted this earlier, Mara said after firing Reese and McAdoo in 2017 that it was "ideal" to allow the GM to hire the coach he wants. So, he seemingly knows what the order should be...
Which only indicates to me he really wants to keep Judge and will underscore that with any GM he interviews. Implying that if the GM really wants the role, keeping Judge would be a big plus.
Had they fired DG during the season, we would be much further long in the GM search. The critical piece. It's unbelievable Mara was willing to late DG exit gracefully, but he was cold and ruthless firing a 2X SB winning GM and his last HC to get NYG to the playoffs so he could conduct the fake GM search for DG.
The whole "The new GM will make the decision" is just a cover for ownership. Any GM hired will understand that after next season they can decide to keep or dump Judge. The excuse will be the new GM needs evaluate Judge and Jones before making a decision and injuries will be the excuse for another year
I think more likely the Mara's would like to keep Judge but
are concerned it is the wrong decision. So they want input from the candidates on him if they have any.
I don't think it is out of line for a GM to suggest he needs 2022 to figure out whether Judge is worth keeping on. And if you're the GM, it gives you a nice little one year reprieve...
The Bears, Broncos, Vikings, Dolphins all fired their coaches. Why are the Giants the only franchise who still haven't made a decision on whether their coach is coming back ?
Because Mara cannot make decisive decisions and is not fit to be making them in the 1st place. The only thing guaranteed is he will fuck this up like he has for the last 10 years
you cant complain that he is waiting on a GM to make the call AND that he is not fit to make a decision.
RE: I think more likely the Mara's would like to keep Judge but
are concerned it is the wrong decision. So they want input from the candidates on him if they have any.
I don't think it is out of line for a GM to suggest he needs 2022 to figure out whether Judge is worth keeping on. And if you're the GM, it gives you a nice little one year reprieve...
It's not completely unreasonable for a GM to say as much. But, it damned well better be his own idea. And, that idea should get him sent on his way.
The embattled second-year coach has apparently survived Black Monday, despite the Giants’ miserable, 4-13 season and his ugly 10-23 record as head coach, but it’s still not clear exactly how much longer he’ll be able to hold on. Things appeared to be trending toward Judge returning in 2022 as he met with Giants co-owners John Mara and Steve Tisch on Monday afternoon, according to a team source. But there may be more meetings in the coming days before any final decision is made.
The reason for putting Judge in limbo is because the owners have a lot of questions that need to be answered after one of the most disappointing seasons their franchise has had. They undoubtedly want to hear Judge’s plan for turning this mess around. And according to one source, they also want to hear Judge’s plans for what they may insist will be a complete overhaul of his offensive staff.
"Judge also wants to have a hand in the GM search, according to a source, which might be an even tougher sell to the Giants owners. He has made a push for them to promote assistant GM Kevin Abrams into Gettleman’s job, a source confirmed, because the two have worked well together and Abrams presumably wants to keep Judge as head coach."
are concerned it is the wrong decision. So they want input from the candidates on him if they have any.
I don't think it is out of line for a GM to suggest he needs 2022 to figure out whether Judge is worth keeping on. And if you're the GM, it gives you a nice little one year reprieve...
It's not completely unreasonable for a GM to say as much. But, it damned well better be his own idea. And, that idea should get him sent on his way.
Didn't mean a reprieve to sit on your ass. A first year GM can do a decent job and still not have things go his way. You can bet your bottom dollar this thought will cross some if not all of their minds.
Hey Eric, put that picture up again and keep it at the top of the page until JJ is fired
Will Anderson Jr. of Alabama. The ER
(Although I fully expect this result)
Truly insane to watch this season and bring back that coach. The coaches fired today are light years better than this clown.
Another lost decade.
FUCK
OUT
OF
HERE.
John Mara is a fucking loser.
My only hope is that Judge can somehow revert to what we saw last year where there was definite promise being showed along with a dynamic OC coming in...
You put a pathetic display out there and marched a coach out there who talks like he has owned the league and is the master of all while displaying nothing but contempt for those who ask him questions and complete obliviousness to his repeated failings.
Good for you! I’m sure you’re one of many.
And what becomes of the PSL money you had to spend?
Yup. He's planning a 2 year insurance policy.
He'll con the Maras with a softer schedule next year, win 6 or 7 games, get 2023 too.
I'm old enough, I've seen the novel here before.
Judge quit on his team, and Mara quit on his fans.
Terrible time to be a Giants fan.
A year from now? I guarantee that he’s fired before mid season after they start 0-5.
2) Abrams will be retained
3) The Giants will have no cap room in 2022, hence the team will be as bad or worst than this year
4) After a horrendous start, Judge will be fired mid season
Don't expect to be competitive until 2027 or so.
I absolutely loathe this organization
Agreed. This is a shit show. Let Judge and Abrams run it off a cliff next year, MAYBE that would spur Mara to make real changes. They might as well bring DG back next year.
Good for you.
Are we sure these items are accurate?
Right, so we'll waste one of those 1st rounders drafting another Daniel Jones.
This team has lost the plot. They aren't interested in winning.
Judge quit on his team, and Mara quit on his fans.
Terrible time to be a Giants fan.
+1. This whole organization can get fucked. Its not worth it any longer.
We could see this a 1000 miles away. I’ll be absolutely floored if Abrams isn’t the GM. In fact, I bet Gettleman is on the staff for a few more months.
Allowing Gettleman to retire to save face, keeping Judge as HC and probably promoting Abrams as GM.
Goodbye.
Can't argue with the on-field results. They've been stellar.
I think you're 100% correct. If you've seen how John operates, you'd have to be a fool to not push for that if you're Joe Judge.
2) Abrams will be retained
3) The Giants will have no cap room in 2022, hence the team will be as bad or worst than this year
4) After a horrendous start, Judge will be fired mid season
Don't expect to be competitive until 2027 or so.
All correct, except they won't fire Judge midseason, unless he does something really embarrassing.
Quote:
Remember today when they for Judge a year from now.
We could see this a 1000 miles away. I’ll be absolutely floored if Abrams isn’t the GM. In fact, I bet Gettleman is on the staff for a few more months.
"Well you see Getts has led all the scouting throughout the year so while Kevin will be running the draft David and Chris will be there as a resource for Kevin to use..."
Quote:
1) The team will have to hire a GM that will commit to Judge
2) Abrams will be retained
3) The Giants will have no cap room in 2022, hence the team will be as bad or worst than this year
4) After a horrendous start, Judge will be fired mid season
Don't expect to be competitive until 2027 or so.
All correct, except they won't fire Judge midseason, unless he does something really embarrassing.
More embarrassing than the last few weeks?
This team is going to go 0-17 next year at this rate. And maybe they need to.
Quote:
my season tickets. Just sent the email to my account manager. Just not worth the financial beating anymore
And what becomes of the PSL money you had to spend?
Huge loss, but its just not worth the time and investment for 5 months
Mediocrity would be an improvement.
They're currently non-competitive and on their way to irrelevant.
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
Giants are laughingstock of the league and it's been that way through the Beckham outbursts under Coughlin at the end, historically bad defenses, Eli debacle with McAdoo, now historically bad offenses and wacky head coach.
I must agree. This would be a sign that Mara would rather have his fingers in the ingredients than let an outsider do the job without family interference.
i'll save more money in 2022 and not even think of going to a game. I will watch every week, probably bleed most weeks until the season's luster of hope washes away and be done with them for good by late October. Like every other year.
Don't go to games. Forget sending a message to Mara, and just save some money and spend it on something more meaningful.
DON'T. GO. TO. THE. GAMES.
Giants are laughingstock of the league and it's been that way through the Beckham outbursts under Coughlin at the end, historically bad defenses, Eli debacle with McAdoo, now historically bad offenses and wacky head coach.
Agreed. Ive been chirping at the beats all weekend and Ralph and Art have been pretty damn defensive. They are afraid of upsetting the Maras.
Oh please. The next GM is only getting the job if he says he can work with Judge.
The same reason Gettleman got the job. Because he said he can work with Eli.
It's a fucking sham.
God bless, man. You are a great read.
But the way things are trending, this crew is ALL in on Jones.
Allowing Gettleman to retire to save face, keeping Judge as HC and probably promoting Abrams as GM.
Goodbye.
i'm at this point as well. the franchise is dead
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
If you're going to leave up to the new GM that sort of makes sense, but doesn't really feel like how Mara does business.
A GM isn't firing the HC later this month. So Judge is here for 2022 season, wasting another season and off-season.
Exactly. I think the new GM will have say. Don’t think Judge is safe.
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
They could’ve been interviewing people this entire time. Why were they wasting time before letting Gettleman “retire”??
You put a pathetic display out there and marched a coach out there who talks like he has owned the league and is the master of all while displaying nothing but contempt for those who ask him questions and complete obliviousness to his repeated failings.
you aren't alone... people will call me a fair weather fan for not investing much time into following the Giants over the past few years, but it's not worth the emotional and time investment
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
Mara will always choose avoiding a difficult conversation to doing what is right.
It looks like this team has not yet hit rock bottom. That is what we have to look forward to in 2022.
Quote:
.
God bless, man. You are a great read.
But the way things are trending, this crew is ALL in on Jones.
I'm holding out hope they hire a new GM who isn't a Judge guy, and he boots Judge.
@RVacchianoSNY
·
18m
I don't get the sense that much has changed since I wrote this Friday, except that a lot more people seem unsure about whether John Mara will fire Joe Judge.
Some of that may just be conjecture. Mara, who met with Judge this morning, is the only one who knows for sure.
Quote:
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
2m
Sense I get is Judge will proceed and move forward as if he were coming back as head coach for 3rd season. Still may happen.
But a big part of this is a meeting with ownership, which I'm told has not happened officially as of yet, and the recommendation of new GM will matter.
If you're going to leave up to the new GM that sort of makes sense, but doesn't really feel like how Mara does business.
That my last remaining hope…that they’ll still give new GM full autonomy to make a change at HC if he sees fit. But not optimistic they will
Quote:
In comment 15541920 JonC said:
Quote:
.
God bless, man. You are a great read.
But the way things are trending, this crew is ALL in on Jones.
I'm holding out hope they hire a new GM who isn't a Judge guy, and he boots Judge.
I don't see it happening right away. Paton was hired in Denver and waited a year to fire Fangio.
Quote:
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
A GM isn't firing the HC later this month. So Judge is here for 2022 season, wasting another season and off-season.
Why not?
When did Pederson get fired from the Eagles?
It was not immediately after the season.
100% correct
And anyone (not you Bill) that's abandoning this organization can feel free to take a walk... You are not a fan of this franchise... For christ's sake we've had 4 super bowl wins in 36 years - that's more than half of the franchises in this league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are right
Their biggest worry is going out there with having to make two huge decisions on hiring at the same time and blowing them yet again. This way they take the heat in slices instead of chuncks
It's kind of funny.
I care more about my fantasy team than the Giants at this juncture.
When they play smart, I'll start caring more.
If the owners don't care about this team, why should I? I'm out.
But the writing is on the wall. If Judge was truly fired, we'd know by now.
Me too.
Quote:
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
I hope you are right
it makes sense
If the owners don't care about this team, why should I? I'm out.
If they promote Abrams then I will be joining you.
- GM ________ Mara.
Doesn’t matter which Mara.
Quote:
In comment 15541983 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15541920 JonC said:
Quote:
.
God bless, man. You are a great read.
But the way things are trending, this crew is ALL in on Jones.
I'm holding out hope they hire a new GM who isn't a Judge guy, and he boots Judge.
I don't see it happening right away. Paton was hired in Denver and waited a year to fire Fangio.
They're going to suck anyway, and with no answer at QB from the 2022 draft apparent, they could punt these decisions another year. But, if they elevate Abrams or hire one of Judge's fookin buddies for GM ...
we only know that he hasn't been fired; not that he has been retained for sure.
Quote:
In comment 15541970 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
I hope you are right
it makes sense
The more I think about it, yes. Fans want Mara out of decisions. He hires a new GM and backs off.
58s
One correction to this: John Mara and Joe Judge have not had their meeting yet, I'm told. That is expected to happen this afternoon.
So the bottom line: Joe Judge is proceeding as if he'll be back as Giants coach, but that decision isn't necessarily final yet.
Quote:
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
Oh please. The next GM is only getting the job if he says he can work with Judge.
The same reason Gettleman got the job. Because he said he can work with Eli.
It's a fucking sham.
So on one hand we want Mara out of football operations, but then we criticize him for not making a decision about football operations. All this is today is sharks circling in the water waiting for blood.
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
One correction to this: John Mara and Joe Judge have not had their meeting yet, I'm told. That is expected to happen this afternoon.
So the bottom line: Joe Judge is proceeding as if he'll be back as Giants coach, but that decision isn't necessarily final yet. Down pointing backhand index
My favorite so far is the draft picks have played better.
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1m
One correction to this: John Mara and Joe Judge have not had their meeting yet, I'm told. That is expected to happen this afternoon.
So the bottom line: Joe Judge is proceeding as if he'll be back as Giants coach, but that decision isn't necessarily final yet. Down pointing backhand index
What kind of sense does this make? This meeting should have happened at 8am.
Yup, there will be a fan boycott, and deservedly so, if Judge is retained, after he embarrassed both the Giants and the NFL yesterday
My favorite so far is the draft picks have played better.
It's all about continuity. This will give the young players a chance to continue to grow in the same system. That is the most important things. stability and continuity!
Look at it this way - do or die for him next year. New GM this year, rebuild starts. New coach and new QB after next year if team doesn’t compete.
Fully expecting another losing season with Judge… but I am a fan for life. Still sucks though, just don’t see him turning things around
* was not fired
they have resigned themselves to mediocrity and to be the laughing stock of the NFL.. congratulations..
Yup, Pickett at 5 - bet the house on it. Mentioned this in one of the (many) other threads.
They'll blame the neck as to why DJ never plays again. Not the fact that he kinda stinks and the Giants fugged up the draft pick.
When there is this much fire and brimstone, and their backs against the wall, the Giants usually find a way to perform better than expectations. Guess we'll see.
Someone save this thread.
Let's go Giants!
Aren't Josina Anderson's sources usually players? Hence she probably got texts about the players mtg? As far as I know she had no sources in the org other than Odell and JackRabbit.
Quote:
....lots of conflicting reports, no?
100% correct
And anyone (not you Bill) that's abandoning this organization can feel free to take a walk... You are not a fan of this franchise... For christ's sake we've had 4 super bowl wins in 36 years - that's more than half of the franchises in this league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They'll all be back when the team starts winning.
How when that is......not sure lol
You just stop caring as much for awhile, until it's time to start caring again.
The tiger replied, "No, the grass is green ."
The discussion became heated, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, so they approached the lion.
As they approached the lion on his throne, the donkey started screaming: ′′Your Highness, isn't it true that the grass is blue?"
The lion replied: "If you believe it is true, the grass is blue."
The donkey rushed forward and continued: ′′The tiger disagrees with me, contradicts me and annoys me. Please punish him."
The king then declared: ′′The tiger will be punished with 3 days of silence."
The donkey jumped with joy and went on his way, content and repeating ′′The grass is blue, the grass is blue..."
The tiger asked the lion, "Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, the grass is green?"
The lion replied, ′′You've known and seen the grass is green."
The tiger asked, ′′So why do you punish me?"
The lion replied, "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is degrading for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with an ass, and on top of that, you came and bothered me with that question just to validate something you already knew was true!"
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on discussions that make no sense. There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand. Others who are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and the only thing that they want is to be right even if they aren’t.
When IGNORANCE SCREAMS, intelligence moves on.
Who is the ass, the tiger and the lion??
Maybe this is Don ‘Hanlon’ Draper’s genius PR ploy to see how fans would react?
@nflrums
The New York Giants are expected to retain Joe Judge and request staff changes and help with the GM hire per a league source. #TogetherBlue
Congrats! Don't look back.
Quote:
fire JJ.
Aren't Josina Anderson's sources usually players? Hence she probably got texts about the players mtg? As far as I know she had no sources in the org other than Odell and JackRabbit.
It seems she often sources players, but I don't know on this one. But, not meeting with Mara yet suggests to me she's possibly jumped the gun.
Just take it slow, you'll have your chance at him with all the derogatory comments lol
Link - ( New Window )
This team is far more entertaining off the field.
Look at it this way - do or die for him next year. New GM this year, rebuild starts. New coach and new QB after next year if team doesn’t compete.
Fully expecting another losing season with Judge… but I am a fan for life. Still sucks though, just don’t see him turning things around
That's great. We are 3 years away but let's go all in to make sure our coach can continue in his job. And what self-respecting GM would agree to work with a coach who can't do his job and then embarrasses himself and the team in almost every press conference. Not going to work! I have never been more done with this team.
@nflrums
The New York Giants are expected to retain Joe Judge and request staff changes and help with the GM hire per a league source. #TogetherBlue
WTF does that even mean?
Quote:
.
Maybe this is Don ‘Hanlon’ Draper’s genius PR ploy to see how fans would react?
That's what I was thinking but I mean if I was a player and they pulled this shit, I would be asking to get out ASAP.
You're fucking with the talent that fuels the product, albeit a shitty product.
I know we are in a shit place in the organization when JonC and J_Rud are this jaded. How far we've fallen since 2011.
When there is this much fire and brimstone, and their backs against the wall, the Giants usually find a way to perform better than expectations. Guess we'll see.
Someone save this thread.
Let's go Giants!
whatever makes you feel better about yourself. Coughlin and Parcells shouldnt even be mentioned seriously in the same breath as joe judge
Except Tom Coughlin was a proven successful NFL head coach in 2006. Judge's best season as an NFL coach is 6-10
And when an outside GM is needed next season, it's the long needed full cleaning of house, and do it in the correct order. Fire them all. Hire a GM. GM hire coach. GM and coach draft (or elsewhere find) your QB.
What’s worse than disaster?
Cannot stand this fraud of a coach. He is a snake oil salesman with a huge ego that does all possible to convince even the brightest of fans that results are those things you can't see and quantify! The Jester of the Mara Clown Court!
Until a GM not named Kevin Abrams makes one.
Either that or he's out.
Not saying these situations are one in the same or that Judge will be the next Coughlin after getting better OC, or whoever else in here. But it's a good point that the situation is probably fluid and nothing is set in stone just yet.
expect total war.
Quote:
.
What’s worse than disaster?
Catastrophe?
Quote:
In comment 15542001 BillKo said:
Quote:
....lots of conflicting reports, no?
100% correct
And anyone (not you Bill) that's abandoning this organization can feel free to take a walk... You are not a fan of this franchise... For christ's sake we've had 4 super bowl wins in 36 years - that's more than half of the franchises in this league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They'll all be back when the team starts winning.
How when that is......not sure lol
You just stop caring as much for awhile, until it's time to start caring again.
The product is unwatchable, and it’s been like this for going on 10 years now. You want a cookie or something?
Holy F
Not saying these situations are one in the same or that Judge will be the next Coughlin after getting better OC, or whoever else in here. But it's a good point that the situation is probably fluid and nothing is set in stone just yet.
But Tom Coughlin deserved that. He took Jacksonville, an expansion team, to a couple of AFC Championship games. He had a 14-2 regular season on his CV there. He was 11-5 and won a division title in 2005 with the Giants
Even the beats are tripping over themselves.
Quote:
It took several days for confirmation of Coughlin coming back in 2006 after meeting with owners for several days and him laying out the plans for the future, hiring a new DC, relating to players better, etc. They also promoted Reese to GM that year as well.
Not saying these situations are one in the same or that Judge will be the next Coughlin after getting better OC, or whoever else in here. But it's a good point that the situation is probably fluid and nothing is set in stone just yet.
But Tom Coughlin deserved that. He took Jacksonville, an expansion team, to a couple of AFC Championship games. He had a 14-2 regular season on his CV there. He was 11-5 and won a division title in 2005 with the Giants
I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to make a direct comparison between Coughlin and Judge, or their respective resumes in 2006 (Coughlin) and now (Judge), just that I think MG makes a good point in that a decision/confirmation may not be forthcoming today and that it could take several days for things to materialize. Maybe they hear him (Judge out on his plans), get interviews for GM's lined up and in the process learn who may or may not want to work with Judge and therefore let the new GM make the decision.
Who the hell knows. My hope is that they get the best candidates for GM in for interviews and whoever they hire, let that person make the decision.
Giants can speedrun through a replay of all the bad decisions of the past four years in one offseason
Thank GOD. Judge is a joke.
Even the beats are tripping over themselves.
Josina Anderson is not a spoof account. How do you not know this?
This thought has occurred to me as well. One can only hope.
Doubt it. Bringing up 2006 is to show that they took their time and really weighed the choice, but ultimately the coach was back then, and will be again. A conditioning exercise.
If Mara is bringing back Judge, he has to show the fans that it was a struggle and there were very good reasons (Judge's presented plan) for bringing him back.
Otherwise if Judge was announced as back yesterday or today it might make the owners look even more foolish because they know they are going against the blood lust majority and need to at least pretend they care.
If this news is getting out there I would lean that Judge is back.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
The current status seems to be confusion.
And FUBAR.
Quote:
have to stop posting these stupid Twitter spoof accounts which have no validation whatsoever.
Even the beats are tripping over themselves.
Josina Anderson is not a spoof account. How do you not know this?
Eric - my mention was to someone who posted something from NFLrumors hashtag.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
If he is disliked this widely in the organization… why is he still here?
Quote:
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
If he is disliked this widely in the organization… why is he still here?
because Mara doesnt want to pay 3 coaches and has no balls
Quote:
Remember today when they for Judge a year from now.
2027?, That's when we draft Arch Manning!! Awesome
A year from now? I guarantee that he’s fired before mid season after they start 0-5.
This might be the lowest point in recent memory. That's in Mara.
2022 is not going to be a good one for the team in terms of wins and losses, so it is not the end of the world for Joe Judge to still be here as the SS NYG settles onto the ocean floor.
Then a new coach at the end of next season can be brought in to begin the long-awaited salvage job.
not only the sneak, he admitted they were setting up to punt on 2nd down!...he played to punt unbelievable
2022 is not going to be a good one for the team in terms of wins and losses, so it is not the end of the world for Joe Judge to still be here as the SS NYG settles onto the ocean floor.
Then a new coach at the end of next season can be brought in to begin the long-awaited salvage job.
If we're lucky, we might be competitive in 2025.
2022 is not going to be a good one for the team in terms of wins and losses, so it is not the end of the world for Joe Judge to still be here as the SS NYG settles onto the ocean floor.
Then a new coach at the end of next season can be brought in to begin the long-awaited salvage job.
Abrams will find just the right guy with BC/Notre Dame and Parcells/Belichick connections.
Am I being too optimistic?
Yup, do it all now, or write off at least the next five years.
This might be the lowest point in recent memory. That's in Mara.
Might be? Look at the last month or so between the product on thr field, Judge's behavior, leaks from he building and Hanlon's response...They're the laughingstock of the NFL.
Why would you go either way (fire or keep) with Judge until you've made a GM hire? If you want to keep Judge, fine -- the new GM has to accept that. If you're really giving the GM the ability to hire coaching, then you have to wait until after they get here to do that.
Denial is a river in Egypt. Judge is coming back if Josina is tweeting that
I don’t get why everyone is so upset.
You want the Giants to operate like a competent business? This is how a competent business functions.
Even if GM gets rid of Judge in the future the next coach will still be chosen by the Mara's.
I don’t get why everyone is so upset.
You want the Giants to operate like a competent business? This is how a competent business functions.
Exactly. And Judge has to pretend he's going to ace the interview for this job. So, he's acting like he's going to be the coach. It all makes sense, but I don't trust this organization at all. Let's see what happens.
If the Giants truly do keep Judge; and hire a Judge puppet as GM; the owners are setting themselves up for pretty ugly crowds at the games. If they get off to a 0-3 or 1-4 start, I can see fans going after Mara hard. He didn't like to get booed at Eli Day, wait until fans come to the stadium and and hang Mara in effigy.
I don’t get why everyone is so upset.
You want the Giants to operate like a competent business? This is how a competent business functions.
Have you ran a competent business before? The well is poisoned.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
I don’t want Judge back either, but that’s rich coming from a RB who retired a year before we won the Super Bowl then complained publicly about how the coach was so hard on him
Things are getting worse.
Quote:
But if he’s not…ready to accept it and root like hell.
Look at it this way - do or die for him next year. New GM this year, rebuild starts. New coach and new QB after next year if team doesn’t compete.
Fully expecting another losing season with Judge… but I am a fan for life. Still sucks though, just don’t see him turning things around
That's great. We are 3 years away but let's go all in to make sure our coach can continue in his job. And what self-respecting GM would agree to work with a coach who can't do his job and then embarrasses himself and the team in almost every press conference. Not going to work! I have never been more done with this team.
Maybe you're missing the point here. There is no disagreement about how pissed off, disappointed, fed up we are with the team and want Judge gone. Fine. What he's saying is that he's a fan and will continue to root like hell for the team, as will I. The regime does suck and I will criticize the heck out of them, but on Sunday I will still be a Giants fan and root like hell for them. Tha's all.
You’d have to go to the retread of the retread list… guys who suck and want back in a building any way possible.
Quote:
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
I don’t want Judge back either, but that’s rich coming from a RB who retired a year before we won the Super Bowl then complained publicly about how the coach was so hard on him
It wasn't Barber per se, it was Glazer who reported that. Barber mentioned as a former player he was a little surprised and asked Glazer to confirm what was meant by the tweets.
Yup I smell a rat on that stuff. I’m sure he does rub several players wrong, and for example if it’s the likes of Golladay bc he calls him out for not playing hard, or Will Hernandez bc he still hasn’t figured out how to pick up a stunt, then I’m good with it
Our problem is Judge hasn’t delivered results to back up his attitude. Much like most former Belichick assistants
Quote:
In comment 15542227 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
just said on the FAN, that he connected with Glazer on his stories yesterday.
The gist of it is that Judge is not liked at all in multiple levels of the day to day staff of organization (not just players, but some of his own coaches, staff).
I don’t want Judge back either, but that’s rich coming from a RB who retired a year before we won the Super Bowl then complained publicly about how the coach was so hard on him
It wasn't Barber per se, it was Glazer who reported that. Barber mentioned as a former player he was a little surprised and asked Glazer to confirm what was meant by the tweets.
Copy that, appreciate you sharing the info
Quote:
the locker room stuff seems like absolute garbage to me
Yup I smell a rat on that stuff. I’m sure he does rub several players wrong, and for example if it’s the likes of Golladay bc he calls him out for not playing hard, or Will Hernandez bc he still hasn’t figured out how to pick up a stunt, then I’m good with it
Our problem is Judge hasn’t delivered results to back up his attitude. Much like most former Belichick assistants
That's the problem. I think Judge's honeymoon ended pretty quickly this year. Losing can make things more rotten inside than they appear outside in the kind of parity-driven high octane league we are seeing now.
Heck, some spoiled Pats fans and some of their own players were whining about Belichick 2 years after a SB win!
Quote:
the locker room stuff seems like absolute garbage to me
Yup I smell a rat on that stuff. I’m sure he does rub several players wrong, and for example if it’s the likes of Golladay bc he calls him out for not playing hard, or Will Hernandez bc he still hasn’t figured out how to pick up a stunt, then I’m good with it
Our problem is Judge hasn’t delivered results to back up his attitude. Much like most former Belichick assistants
Really?
You find it hard to believe that the players secretly don't like the NFL coach that treats the NYG like a high school team?
The ex-NFL players that are now talking heads talked a lot about his act doesn't play...and you think that it's made up...or coming from two guys....
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Really? I figured you'd want him gone as well as DG.
They better have told him to make some serious changes on that coaching staff.
People like Freddie Kitchens to start.
They can use a new ST coordinator as well. They can keep
Graham around if they want, he's not part of the problem.
Let the new OC call the damn plays.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
UGA's success have you going soft lol? Good luck tn Googs.
Think so.
Retaining Judge pretty much cripples our ability to get a good GM.
This is a dreadful decision by the Maras. Gutless.
Quite possibly, which is flat out crazy.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
✔
@ZackBlatt
At the end of a weird season, the Giants handling of this Joe Judge situation is, fittingly, weird.
✔
@DDuggan21
Five players have spoken to reporters following Judge's standard season-ending team meeting. They've all said there was no announcement from Judge that he'll be back. Just a business-as-usual approach like at the end of any season.
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
I can't imagine any GM coming here not named Gettlemen or Abrams. Imagine trying to fix this crappy situation when you can't replace the HC, who will have political power over you with the owner?
BTW, the bellyaching on this site is way, way over the top. Either you love the Giants (and forgive their flaws) or you don't.
Quote:
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
A GM isn't firing the HC later this month. So Judge is here for 2022 season, wasting another season and off-season.
Agreed. Nobody will be hired as GM unless they agree that Judge will be here for at least 2022, which means we don't get the best candidates, and another year is wasted.
✔
@DDuggan21
Five players have spoken to reporters following Judge's standard season-ending team meeting. They've all said there was no announcement from Judge that he'll be back. Just a business-as-usual approach like at the end of any season.
Let me guess, he saw some good things out there and the foundation is in place
They have zero connection to the fan base which they think is OK and we know nothing
I guess they are looking to continue to lose fan base and $$ with this clown
I have already stopped making the trek from philly each year for 2x games after they hired DG.
Zero chance I spend a dime on this team with Joe Judge as coach. Multiply me x a bunch of fans and hopefully it starts to hit the bottom line over the next 12 months to see an impact
If I ran my business this way, I would be fired and broke.
Quote:
In comment 15542472 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
I can't imagine any GM coming here not named Gettlemen or Abrams. Imagine trying to fix this crappy situation when you can't replace the HC, who will have political power over you with the owner?
That's could be a bridge too far. Maybe a GM will get that power but will use 2022 to form his opinion.
BTW, the bellyaching on this site is way, way over the top. Either you love the Giants (and forgive their flaws) or you don't.
What is even more annoying is people instructing people on how they feel.
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
I heard this yesterday somewhere?, over 100 losses in the last ten years. When you think about it, that's hard to do!
part of thinks that's a big deal. Other than Harbaugh there are no real intriguing HC candidates. The only thing worse than keeping Judge is hiring another Judge right now. That is much worse.
Maybe there will be much better HC candidates next year. Fuck's sake I cannot even fool myself into looking forward to next season. All I have is praying that Dallas gets knocked out before February. Assholes.
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
BTW, the bellyaching on this site is way, way over the top. Either you love the Giants (and forgive their flaws) or you don't.
There's a difference between being a fan and being a bootlicker. You Sir, are describing the latter.
If Joe Judge deserves more time, so does Gettleman!
Quote:
In comment 15542472 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
Please provide the metric that tells us he is better than ever other loser to come of the BB tree?
Quote:
In comment 15542472 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
Not me. I never understood why he was hired in the first place.
I can't imagine he is this dumb to bring Judge back given the above. There are tons of people looking to either sell their PSL for peanuts or eat the cost without renewing.
If Joe Judge deserves more time, so does Gettleman!
I don't like old people??
I'm Mr. Old People...
NOBODY like Coughlin either. He, and his ways were wildly unpopular with everyone. Remember, when he said,"Yeah, there's Hitler, then there's me."
Until they started winning. Winning cures everything.
I can't imagine he is this dumb to bring Judge back given the above. There are tons of people looking to either sell their PSL for peanuts or eat the cost without renewing.
Thats what im doing, ill eat the cost. Even if I want to go to 2 games next year it will cost $200-300 total. Better than dropping 2-3k a season.
✔
@DDuggan21
Five players have spoken to reporters following Judge's standard season-ending team meeting. They've all said there was no announcement from Judge that he'll be back. Just a business-as-usual approach like at the end of any season.
And there you have it. Judge is coach until he's fired, and the owners have said the new GM will be in charge of coaching. HOPEFULLY, if the new GM says Judge is out, then he's out. But I don't know why we think the owners would fire the coach when they are doing what they should do: hire a football guy to make football decisions.
If they hire Abrams, all bets are off. But calling for the owners to fire Judge is inconsistent with wanting them not to meddle.
NOBODY like Coughlin either. He, and his ways were wildly unpopular with everyone. Remember, when he said,"Yeah, there's Hitler, then there's me."
Until they started winning. Winning cures everything.
The problem is Coughlin had a resume of success as program builder with bonus familiarity of being in prior Giants tenure under Parcells. He built the Jaguars as an expansion team to several playoff appearances and AFCC game, and also helped Boston College get back on track.
Judge has no track record of knowing how to win. He looks clueless and his team is noncompetitive.
Major differences.
THIS...THIS...THIS!!!
In comment 15542373 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
In comment 15542510 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15542472 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
Please provide the metric that tells us he is better than ever other loser to come of the BB tree?
I can't, but I also never really adopted the metric system...
Quote:
reported today that Mara is really concerned with the number of people who did not renew their season tickets last year. (And this was coming off Judge year 1 where the fanbase was bought in.)
I can't imagine he is this dumb to bring Judge back given the above. There are tons of people looking to either sell their PSL for peanuts or eat the cost without renewing.
Thats what im doing, ill eat the cost. Even if I want to go to 2 games next year it will cost $200-300 total. Better than dropping 2-3k a season.
It is a much better idea to buy a couple games a year than buy PSLs anyway. That's what I would do if I was starting over. But there are no costs for holding on to PSLs and selling the tix. The last three years, I've sold my whole season for face in the spring. Now that my 11 year old wants to go (whether the Giants win or not), we upgraded our tix. I went for that because I have faith the Giants aren't always going to be garbage. At some point they're going to be good, and I'd rather sell my PSLs when they are actually worth something and make my money back rather than walk away.
Let's just wait and see if it's garbage or not.
Quote:
make the GM position even less desirable?
BTW, the bellyaching on this site is way, way over the top. Either you love the Giants (and forgive their flaws) or you don't.
There's a difference between being a fan and being a bootlicker. You Sir, are describing the latter.
Ah, a mindreader appears! How magical.
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
DG has had four bad years in a row, and it's not like he gave JJ a formidable roster to work with. Everyone knew there'd be growing pains with a young inexperienced HC, but here we are two years later looking to replace him. What if he was on record telling DG that he needed better OL but got overrulled by the braintrust/family?
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
The only way out of this for them is to bring in a new GM (hires henchman) and have him do it. Then they can sugarcoat it as “the new GM is charting a new course for us and we are on board”. It’s bull crap but I can see it going down this way.
Strangely, I would be OK with it.
In comment 15542523 Alan W said:
BTW, the bellyaching on this site is way, way over the top. Either you love the Giants (and forgive their flaws) or you don't.
Quote:
In comment 15542560 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15542510 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15542472 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
Please provide the metric that tells us he is better than ever other loser to come of the BB tree?
I can't, but I also never really adopted the metric system...
Some of you guys need to have your sarcasm radar adjusted...
Googs' initial post was not serious.
He's on the hot seat. That means he is NOT running the show in regards to personnel decisions and GM hire. He gets a voice. Doesn't mean his will is fiat. A coach on the hot seat sees his power waning, not increasing.
As M.S. said, 2022 is not going to be a pleasant year no matter what. The cap situation means limited FA acquisitions. We're stuck with draft as the main means of improvement, and guess what? the scouting evaluation upon which the board will be set is going to be the same no matter what. Scouting overhaul will affect next year, not this year. Draft decisions will likely be made by the new GM, not Judge.
An overhaul of the offense assistants/coordinator could mean improved offense.
The new GM will be able to assess the situation and make a rational decision. Y'all don't want the Maras making the calls, yet y'all are begging for them to make this call.
The only way out of this for them is to bring in a new GM (hires henchman) and have him do it. Then they can sugarcoat it as “the new GM is charting a new course for us and we are on board”. It’s bull crap but I can see it going down this way.
Strangely, I would be OK with it.
you do understand that certain GM's might turn down an interview if the perception is the Giants are keeping Judge right.
Its not like in the phone call they can say hey don't turn us down because you will get the chance to fire him. Some guys will believe we are running a clown org and will turn down the interview on this outward perception.
Quote:
In comment 15542580 BigBlueJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15542560 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15542510 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15542472 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and let's see what happens and let a new GM give him the thumbs up or down.
It's not like the Super Bowl is calling our name in 2022 anyway...
Hell, why not give Gettleman another year? These 4-win seasons are great!
Now that's just silly. Gettleman's time in the NFL is clearly up.
Judge still may have a future. We all thought so pretty adamantly a year ago...
Please provide the metric that tells us he is better than ever other loser to come of the BB tree?
I can't, but I also never really adopted the metric system...
Some of you guys need to have your sarcasm radar adjusted...
Googs' initial post was not serious.
Yeah it was actually serious.
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
Yeah it was actually serious.
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
Haha. Very funny Jimmy.
Quote:
In comment 15541970 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
They will let the next GM make the decision. If you want the Mara's out of football operations, then this move actually makes some sense.
A GM isn't firing the HC later this month. So Judge is here for 2022 season, wasting another season and off-season.
Agreed. Nobody will be hired as GM unless they agree that Judge will be here for at least 2022, which means we don't get the best candidates, and another year is wasted.
I wouldn't say JUST another year is wasted. If this eliminates good GM candidates, the impact could be much longer than a year.
No one knows for sure, but the source in this case was a legitimate report.
I’m asking the same question. Besides Josina, has anyone confirmed this?
Quote:
pinned?
No one knows for sure, but the source in this case was a legitimate report.
The issue is, it seems to be true but its not the whole picture. No one from the Giants has said Judge will be the HC next year. They just haven't said he's fired. The statement to the STH said they will let the GM make coaching decisions.
This is what they've said. We don't know if they are interviewing GM candidates bases on candidates wanting to keep Judge around, but that wouldn't surprise me although I hope its not true.
Quote:
pinned?
I’m asking the same question. Besides Josina, has anyone confirmed this?
No, not even closed. It shouldn't be pinned.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
He wouldn't. And they won't. Quite frankly, if you are trying to promote Abrams to be the new GM this is the way you would do it.
That is actually the real CHANGE we are looking for. Now, is that what actually happens?
Mara will only hire someone who will be ok with keeping Judge meaning either Abrams or someone who has a previous relationship with Judge.
The whole GM search is going to be a joke and the best candidates will run far away from this clownshow .
Fuck Mara for what he has done to this franchise
Yeah it was actually serious.
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
The problem with your logic is that if he is brought back with a new GM, the he is not back for 1 year. THey will give the combo GM, HC a 2 year window... So if you bring him back it is for years 3 AND 4, unless the wheels come off completely (well the already did), so not just the wheels, the engine needs to fall out as well.
Not only that, this teams to completely revamp the offensive coaching staff. Who the hell wants to come and work for Joe Judge during a lame duck season? You’re not going to get any of the top OC talent to come work in this situation.
Rip the damn band aid off, start fresh with a new GM and new coaching staff!
Because Mara cannot make decisive decisions and is not fit to be making them in the 1st place. The only thing guaranteed is he will fuck this up like he has for the last 10 years
Quote:
In comment 15542687 .McL. said:
Yeah it was actually serious.
Judge has dropped on my confidence scale but I am okay with letting him stay on for Yr 3 and let's see if he can re-establish himself. IF a new GM to be determined says "no way" then fine...
The problem with your logic is that if he is brought back with a new GM, the he is not back for 1 year. THey will give the combo GM, HC a 2 year window... So if you bring him back it is for years 3 AND 4, unless the wheels come off completely (well the already did), so not just the wheels, the engine needs to fall out as well.
That's not my logic.
Why does there have to inherently be an additional 2-year window on Judge?
Literally the only reason Mara is pretending to let this decision be made by a new GM is to divert the responsibility so he can say "see we hired Scott Pioli and he wants to keep Judge. It's not my decision guys, it's the new GM's totally unbiased decision and we definitly did not force it on him in the interviews or anything"
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
Judge needs to go.
Quote:
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
No offense, but assumptions like this isn’t healthy. History will suggest you’re correct, but I wouldn’t assume it as fact. Let’s see how this plays out.
THIS...THIS...THIS!!!
In comment 15542373 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
One playoff appearance in 10 years is bottom of the league ineptitude. The ownership does not know how to improve things so here we are. Judge was in the room when Glennon was signed as the backup and Toney was chosen. Judge is an anchor on this team going forward.
He's not the only one.
GO watch that video that the NFL network or ESPN had of the GIants war room when that Toney pick was made. Check out who's with who and the body language in the room.
Quote:
In comment 15542952 JonC said:
Quote:
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
No offense, but assumptions like this isn’t healthy. History will suggest you’re correct, but I wouldn’t assume it as fact. Let’s see how this plays out.
History is usually more correct than blind hopr
but they way judge embarrassed NYG over the year i think he deserved to be fired regardless. guess it's better to wait and have a GM make that call
hopefully that's what mara is doing.
and hopefully he's hired some consulting group to help him navigate the search and make the correct selection.
Quote:
If they elevate Abrams or hire someone connected to Judge, we'll know where it's likely headed. I do not see Judge surviving an outside GM hire. tbd
There is no way Mara is going to Hire somebody who will be ok with firing Judge.
This is like when he had the last GM search but in reality he was only going to hire someone who was still ok going forward with Eli and trying to still win with him, not a GM who wanted to go in a different direction. Or, when he Hired Judge and foisted Garret on to him.
Mara doesn't do real searches because he doesn't have an open mind. His mind is already made up to keep Judge and now will only hire someone who will agree to that
From the sounds of it - Mara likely told Judge he is going to let the new GM decide who the coaches are.
I am not defending Judge and personally think he deserves to go...based on the fact that he has nothing to contribute to offensive and defensive game planning. But let things play out.
Literally the only reason Mara is pretending to let this decision be made by a new GM is to divert the responsibility so he can say "see we hired Scott Pioli and he wants to keep Judge. It's not my decision guys, it's the new GM's totally unbiased decision and we definitly did not force it on him in the interviews or anything"
It's either going to be Abrams or a fake "outsider" like Scott Pioli.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
Overinflated Expectations always ends in disappointment and anger. This message board is filled with people who make their own misery but blame others.
Quote:
There are still people here that buy Mara's bullshit. Do you really think all of a sudden he is going to cede all football decisions to a GM instead of his friends and family?
Literally the only reason Mara is pretending to let this decision be made by a new GM is to divert the responsibility so he can say "see we hired Scott Pioli and he wants to keep Judge. It's not my decision guys, it's the new GM's totally unbiased decision and we definitly did not force it on him in the interviews or anything"
It's either going to be Abrams or a fake "outsider" like Scott Pioli.
Like it or not...Mara is not going to hire someone as GM that he does not trust or know. It might well end up being Pioli who has experience and would be qualified to take over all football operations. He would command respect in the building immediately.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Make yourself happier and exercise some patience.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
Overinflated Expectations always ends in disappointment and anger. This message board is filled with people who make their own misery but blame others.
Totally agree. Fans are dummies.
Bring back Coughlin, McAdoo, Eli, John Jerry and the rest of the guys. They deserve another chance...
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Quote:
Make yourself happier and exercise some patience.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Let them just put a new GM in place that we hope is competent.
Not sure we need to focus in on next year's unknown injuries just yet...
I didn't want Judge back so I can't sit here now and say this is a good thing, but I still say the worse possible scenario is not keeping Judge, it's firing Judge and hiring another bad candidate.
Judge can easily be fired next year. The GM will have the power to do so if and when this team sucks again. If we fired Judge now and hired some new guy, we aren't firing that new guy next year even if they went 1-16. Now if Judge goes 6-11 he's outta here.
Not good, but not the worst thing either. The key is to get the right GM in here and draft well this coming April.
I went thru this process with the University of Miami, Incompetence ingrained in the leadership position cannot be tolerated or allowed to survive.
Blast them. Make them afraid or weary to post anything on Social Media. Do the same to the local reporters and make it abundantly clear that any credibility or ability to draw subscriptions or clicks to their work rests on them holding Mara's feet to the fire and the dismissal of judge.
Maybe just maybe the Giants felt underwhelmed by the HC candidates out there. I know I am. Other than Harbaugh you can have the rest.
Quote:
In comment 15542919 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Make yourself happier and exercise some patience.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Let them just put a new GM in place that we hope is competent.
Not sure we need to focus in on next year's unknown injuries just yet...
LOL, my post was in reference to all you nervous nellies.
What did LT tell Parcells in 1986? Stop griping, we're gonna win............
so who made the decision?
I am not sure it's a bad one, but it definitely puts a limit on the number of candidates for GM.
Quote:
In comment 15543429 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 15542919 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Make yourself happier and exercise some patience.
If you told BBI the first day of the offseason would have been marked by the announcement of a reorg where the coach now reports to the GM, people would have been overjoyed. Enjoy it.
LOL, it just never ends.
Potential GMs are contacted, but will they interview?
Right guys hired, but will they make the right picks?
Right players on roster, but will they get hurt?
Blue chip players, but how will we afford them?
It just goes on and on..............
Let them just put a new GM in place that we hope is competent.
Not sure we need to focus in on next year's unknown injuries just yet...
LOL, my post was in reference to all you nervous nellies.
What did LT tell Parcells in 1986? Stop griping, we're gonna win............
Oh, ok. I only like my own sarcasm...
:-)
Isn’t it “staying for now”? Won’t the new GM have authority to make the decision?
The guy is a basket case. See ya!
Now, on the other hand, I do not think the HC job is one many established coaches would want.
Quote:
They are going outside their comfort zone of close associates for a new GM. I don't think there is any possible way they would retain Judge and promote Abrams also. The fall out to that would be too big
montanagiant - Even if true, it's not a good sign. I think you are eliminating a lot of serious potential candidates by mandating Judge. I think if all things were equal, the Giants GM job could be a highly sought after one. But, when you require Judge as part of the deal, you eliminate some highly qualified candidates, meaning you are not choosing from the best.
Now, on the other hand, I do not think the HC job is one many established coaches would want.
I see that Matt, I think the way they sell it is to give the new GM carte Blanche after reviewing Judge and Jones next season. That means to any GM he has mulligan his first season and that is understood by all parties
Exactly. That is indeed the flaw. Unless the GM is hired tonight or tomorrow, any GM would be considerably behind competing with other teams in need of a HC, too.
Remember, and I posted this earlier, Mara said after firing Reese and McAdoo in 2017 that it was "ideal" to allow the GM to hire the coach he wants. So, he seemingly knows what the order should be...
Which only indicates to me he really wants to keep Judge and will underscore that with any GM he interviews. Implying that if the GM really wants the role, keeping Judge would be a big plus.
Had they fired DG during the season, we would be much further long in the GM search. The critical piece. It's unbelievable Mara was willing to late DG exit gracefully, but he was cold and ruthless firing a 2X SB winning GM and his last HC to get NYG to the playoffs so he could conduct the fake GM search for DG.
Quote:
is to truly give the new GM autonomy in this decision. But, this would require a quick process to hire the GM and to allow that person to make a quick decision.
Exactly. That is indeed the flaw. Unless the GM is hired tonight or tomorrow, any GM would be considerably behind competing with other teams in need of a HC, too.
Remember, and I posted this earlier, Mara said after firing Reese and McAdoo in 2017 that it was "ideal" to allow the GM to hire the coach he wants. So, he seemingly knows what the order should be...
Which only indicates to me he really wants to keep Judge and will underscore that with any GM he interviews. Implying that if the GM really wants the role, keeping Judge would be a big plus.
Had they fired DG during the season, we would be much further long in the GM search. The critical piece. It's unbelievable Mara was willing to late DG exit gracefully, but he was cold and ruthless firing a 2X SB winning GM and his last HC to get NYG to the playoffs so he could conduct the fake GM search for DG.
The whole "The new GM will make the decision" is just a cover for ownership. Any GM hired will understand that after next season they can decide to keep or dump Judge. The excuse will be the new GM needs evaluate Judge and Jones before making a decision and injuries will be the excuse for another year
I don't think it is out of line for a GM to suggest he needs 2022 to figure out whether Judge is worth keeping on. And if you're the GM, it gives you a nice little one year reprieve...
Because Mara cannot make decisive decisions and is not fit to be making them in the 1st place. The only thing guaranteed is he will fuck this up like he has for the last 10 years
you cant complain that he is waiting on a GM to make the call AND that he is not fit to make a decision.
I don't think it is out of line for a GM to suggest he needs 2022 to figure out whether Judge is worth keeping on. And if you're the GM, it gives you a nice little one year reprieve...
The embattled second-year coach has apparently survived Black Monday, despite the Giants’ miserable, 4-13 season and his ugly 10-23 record as head coach, but it’s still not clear exactly how much longer he’ll be able to hold on. Things appeared to be trending toward Judge returning in 2022 as he met with Giants co-owners John Mara and Steve Tisch on Monday afternoon, according to a team source. But there may be more meetings in the coming days before any final decision is made.
The reason for putting Judge in limbo is because the owners have a lot of questions that need to be answered after one of the most disappointing seasons their franchise has had. They undoubtedly want to hear Judge’s plan for turning this mess around. And according to one source, they also want to hear Judge’s plans for what they may insist will be a complete overhaul of his offensive staff.
Link - ( New Window )
Ralph V. @ 5:16pm - ( New Window )
Quote:
are concerned it is the wrong decision. So they want input from the candidates on him if they have any.
I don't think it is out of line for a GM to suggest he needs 2022 to figure out whether Judge is worth keeping on. And if you're the GM, it gives you a nice little one year reprieve...
It's not completely unreasonable for a GM to say as much. But, it damned well better be his own idea. And, that idea should get him sent on his way.
Didn't mean a reprieve to sit on your ass. A first year GM can do a decent job and still not have things go his way. You can bet your bottom dollar this thought will cross some if not all of their minds.