This whole fix the oline first talk

I am fine with moving on from Jones if the new GM thinks he can improve the position.

But, I am absolutely sick of being a fan of a team that gets dominated in the trenches. Fix the line, and the guys that touch the ball may start to look competent.

For the producer to weigh in On this…

In comment 15542935 dancing blue bear said:

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For the producer to weigh in On this…

He's coming, just got to logout of his first account.

but I'm a believer that if you fix (or at least improve) the OL, Jones will get a lot better. Same for other skill positions.

There are enough holes on this team that you can't fill them all. OL is first priority. You can't replace 53 spots on the roster in one year.

QB class not great this year
OL class looks strong

Fact: our Oline sucks

Seems pretty simple to me

PS
the Pixies are the most overrated band of All Time

Get a line that's not getting blown up every play. If DJ still isn't producing 25 TDs a season we'll have a draft pick high enough to get a good QB. Then maybe we find a Herbert who steps in and makes us a year away from contending.

it is code for Jones can be the guy

ps: The Pixies are awesome

In comment 15542932 PetesHereNow said:

Quote:

I am fine with moving on from Jones if the new GM thinks he can improve the position. But, I am absolutely sick of being a fan of a team that gets dominated in the trenches. Fix the line, and the guys that touch the ball may start to look competent.

+1

Couldn't you say the same about Glennon?

Glad to see you guys are on board

In comment 15542994 Producer said:

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it is code for Jones can be the guy ps: The Pixies are awesome

Prove it. How about fixing the line so the next quarterback or running back doesn’t get screwed over?

If there is a franchise level qb available, actual or potential, they should take them.

If not, fixing the offensive line before the skill positions is important. Getting another weapon won’t do shit without a solid line and that is what we have been trying after striking out on o-line prospects

In comment 15543017 Angel Eyes said:

Quote:

In comment 15542994 Producer said: Quote: it is code for Jones can be the guy ps: The Pixies are awesome Prove it. How about fixing the line so the next quarterback or running back doesn’t get screwed over?

You can get a new QB and *fix the line* at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive. it's a false choice.

The giants offense needs an Oline to be able to block

To be relevant

Fix the online. Do I think Jones will do better yes but it is more so for the next QB if it is not Jones. Look what Matt Jones is doing as a rookie with a good online and then the other rookie qbs without good olines.

Having a great online will make us competitive. If there is our next franchise qb in this draft then take him, otherwise get the online in place for next years new qb. There is no money to sign free agent online this year.

In comment 15542932 PetesHereNow said:

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I am fine with moving on from Jones if the new GM thinks he can improve the position. But, I am absolutely sick of being a fan of a team that gets dominated in the trenches. Fix the line, and the guys that touch the ball may start to look competent.

+1

And I don't think it's some insurmountable project either.

I like Lemieux, and it sounds like Gates is expected to return by training camp and avoided a worst case scenario. Andrew Thomas is outstanding - I focused on him during yesterday's game because there was nothing else interesting to watch, and his technique and athleticism jumped off the screen. If he can put a healthy year together next year he's going to set himself up for life financially.

The 2 biggest holes on the team are starting RG and starting RT.

If they can get + players at those 2 positions - a tall order but not impossible - they can have a very good OLine.

None of this has anything to do with Jones - but I do believe Jones can be better (and was better) with a competent coaching staff and OLine.

In comment 15543016 SteelGiant said:

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Glad to see you guys are on board

You can tell me you think the Pixies suck and it not your taste and you have the right.

But you can't tell me a guy who has a QBR of 42 ; throws passes to the opposing teams Defensive End who is just sitting there is a good QB. If you are telling me who could be better with better oline players then I say so what? You can say that about Glennon. If you are telling me he could be a HOF like Eli then I say that is just philosophy. Whatver argument you can make about Jones -- I can make about Glennon.

Not to mention Jones is probably one of the few trade worthy assets on this team. How does it make any sense to keep him as a stop gap on on offense that needs a complete overhaul with him being the most important position and trade worthy?

over the last several season's knows the fix starts with the OL. Any suggestion that people are saying that because they want another year of DJ is just a bunch of bollocks. Doesn't matter if its DJ or Brady, no QB is going to be successful behind the current OL.

;-P

i have been vocal on here about wanting to draft o-line with the first 3 picks. i've said repeatedly that i would draft cross, linderbaum, and zion johnson.

i want that for a couple reasons. i don't like any QBs in this crop. it's a good offensive line draft so none would be reaches. the giants cannot field a competent and have not been able to field a competent offense because they haven't had even an average line in a decade.

also i think daniel jones stinks.

jones is basically on an affordable 1 year deal. if you don't want to trade for wilson or watson and don't like this draft of QBs, it makes sense to just let him play the year out with him

In comment 15543094 Debaser said:

Quote:

In comment 15543016 SteelGiant said: Quote: Glad to see you guys are on board I read your words but all I’m hearing is how bad the Pixies really were. You can tell me you think the Pixies suck and it not your taste and you have the right. But you can't tell me a guy who has a QBR of 42 ; throws passes to the opposing teams Defensive End who is just sitting there is a good QB. If you are telling me who could be better with better oline players then I say so what? You can say that about Glennon. If you are telling me he could be a HOF like Eli then I say that is just philosophy. Whatver argument you can make about Jones -- I can make about Glennon. Not to mention Jones is probably one of the few trade worthy assets on this team. How does it make any sense to keep him as a stop gap on on offense that needs a complete overhaul with him being the most important position and trade worthy?

In comment 15542932 PetesHereNow said:

Quote:

I am fine with moving on from Jones if the new GM thinks he can improve the position. But, I am absolutely sick of being a fan of a team that gets dominated in the trenches. Fix the line, and the guys that touch the ball may start to look competent.

+1

Id rather fix the OL, get a VET to be the place holder if Jones craps out and draft a QB in 2023...
get a OL that can block and a pass rusher and we can start going in the right direction

and hopefully get a running game going. If Daniel Jones plays well then great, but if he doesn't at least we have the offensive line in place so the next quarterback doesn't get the david carr treatment.

I read your words but all I’m hearing is how bad the pixies really were.

I’m not a Jones supporter. I might be ok with drafting a QB in a late round if we think there is a good floor/ceiling guy meaning he can be a cheap backup.

But there is not QB in the draft that is going to save the franchise without getting the line better.

We need to prioritize and some of us rank OL higher on the list based on available value.

it's understanding that some of the available QB prospects in the draft may not be worth using one of two top ten picks, and they can't afford anything better than Jones with the cap situation in the free agent market. Not everything is an agenda. If the next GM likes Corral or Pickett or someone available in the 2nd or 3rd then I'll hope that they are right.

In comment 15543188 SteelGiant said:

Quote:

I read your words but all I’m hearing is how bad the pixies really were. I’m not a Jones supporter. I might be ok with drafting a QB in a late round if we think there is a good floor/ceiling guy meaning he can be a cheap backup. But there is not QB in the draft that is going to save the franchise without getting the line better. We need to prioritize and some of us rank OL higher on the list based on available value.

in 2017 people said it was a weak QB class. Mahomes and Watson emerged from that class. Don't dismiss every prospect just because some pundit said it's a bad class.

we cant run or pass because the Oline sucks except Thomas. Just look at the film. If they want to get a better QB fine still need to fix the Oline first. I can life another year with Jones seeing he got killed and actually did a decent job.

.

but Frank Black solo stuff is more my cup of tea.

Daniel Jones will not be the answer here but the OL needs 3-4 new starters.

Clearly says which is the better strategy, fixing the OL or replacing the QB. Read that and then respond. Its in the chapter on how Circuit City is so successful.

Also Depeche Mode sucked and always will suck.

In comment 15543214 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15543188 SteelGiant said: Quote: I read your words but all I’m hearing is how bad the pixies really were. I’m not a Jones supporter. I might be ok with drafting a QB in a late round if we think there is a good floor/ceiling guy meaning he can be a cheap backup. But there is not QB in the draft that is going to save the franchise without getting the line better. We need to prioritize and some of us rank OL higher on the list based on available value. in 2017 people said it was a weak QB class. Mahomes and Watson emerged from that class. Don't dismiss every prospect just because some pundit said it's a bad class.

Ok, so who is your guy?
Which QB do you think is worth that risk, do you see a Maholms or Watson in this draft?

Because this could be, some samples

2011
Round 1: Cam Newton (No. 1), Jake Locker (No. 8), Blaine Gabbert (No. 10), Christian Ponder (No. 12)
Round 2: Andy Dalton (No. 35), Colin Kaepernick (No. 36)
Round 3: Ryan Mallett (No. 74)

11) 2016
Round 1: Jared Goff (No. 1), Carson Wentz (No. 2), Paxton Lynch (No. 26)
Round 2: Christian Hackenberg (No. 51)
Round 3: Jacoby Brissett (No. 91), Cody Kessler (No. 93)

2014
Round 1: Blake Bortles (No. 3), Johnny Manziel (No. 22), Teddy Bridgewater (No. 32)
Round 2: Derek Carr (No. 36), Jimmy Garoppolo (No. 62)

2015
Round 1: Jameis Winston (No. 1), Marcus Mariota (No. 2)
Round 3: Garrett Grayson (No. 75), Sean Mannion (No. 89)

2006
Round 1: Vince Young (No. 3), Matt Leinart (No. 10), Jay Cutler (No. 11)
Round 2: Kellen Clemens (No. 49), Tarvaris Jackson (No. 64)
Round 3: Charlie Whitehurst (No. 81), Brodie Croyle (No. 85)

In comment 15542984 SteelGiant said:

Quote:

QB class not great this year OL class looks strong Fact: our Oline sucks Seems pretty simple to me PS the Pixies are the most overrated band of All Time

Pixies comment aside this is right. In a different QB year I'd be in favor of drafting a QB. This year the board matches need. Draft for need, fix the damn offensive line, and see what happens. Best case: Jones is good. Worst case: you're ready to draft a QB next year.

A good offensive line makes everything else look so much better. (See: the Eagles this year, the 2007/08 Giants.)

I'm still thinking about "melee mouthed talk" and what that means either literally or figuratively

In comment 15543347 RHPeel said:

Quote:

In comment 15542984 SteelGiant said: Quote: QB class not great this year OL class looks strong Fact: our Oline sucks Seems pretty simple to me PS the Pixies are the most overrated band of All Time Pixies comment aside this is right. In a different QB year I'd be in favor of drafting a QB. This year the board matches need. Draft for need, fix the damn offensive line, and see what happens. Best case: Jones is good. Worst case: you're ready to draft a QB next year. A good offensive line makes everything else look so much better. (See: the Eagles this year, the 2007/08 Giants.)

I actually like the Pixies but I like trolling trolls more

In comment 15543347 RHPeel said:

Quote:

In comment 15542984 SteelGiant said: Quote: QB class not great this year OL class looks strong Fact: our Oline sucks Seems pretty simple to me PS the Pixies are the most overrated band of All Time Pixies comment aside this is right. In a different QB year I'd be in favor of drafting a QB. This year the board matches need. Draft for need, fix the damn offensive line, and see what happens. Best case: Jones is good. Worst case: you're ready to draft a QB next year. A good offensive line makes everything else look so much better. (See: the Eagles this year, the 2007/08 Giants.)

An elite franchise QB makes everything else look so much better, including your OL.

...

A good oline makes everything actually better.

None of us oline fans are stating we don’t want a great QB but if you don’t fix the more glaring issue up front you will end needing to trade your highly drafted QB and your highly drafted QB.

Does this sound familiar? Because it is literally where you are.

Holes for running are few and far between and the QB barely has time to process.

because most of us have been screaming about the OL before the Giants drafted Jones. We were saying it during the entire back half of Eli's career.

The line of scrimmage is the entry fee for consistent success in the NFL. A good QB gets you to the next level. We’re not even at the passable level. We can’t run the ball most weeks, which is part of why we fail in the red zone, why our RBs are hit in the backfield setting up 3rd and long, why we have no confidence on deep shots because we don’t think our protection holds up, why we gave up a Safety vs Chi, why play action is ineffective, etc.

DJ may or may not be the guy. But fixing the OL and DL are priorities.

are you going to fix the O line by signing free agents when we have little cap space? All you will get that way is more Skuras and Bredesons.

In comment 15543456 k2tampa said:

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are you going to fix the O line by signing free agents when we have little cap space? All you will get that way is more Skuras and Bredesons.

My surefire 2-year OL plan.

Posted it a few times already...

I’m our first 6 picks of the draft. I hope the BC guard in round 2 is one of them and a trade back abut with#7 for the IOWa center is another one.

Move on from Jones, who replaces him? Put in a rookie qb and wait another 3 years to see if he is an NFL level qb?

They were supposedly in win now mode with him behind and that line?

They could have drafted q Nelson but instead they drafted jones. So now they need a line just the same anyway?

What was the point of drafting jones then? And what has he done to deserve all these chances? He has never played well in college even.

And more o line. The Titans just clinched home field with a retread 1st rd QB and an actual gold jacket HOF RB out half the season. Win the trenches, the rest will follow

Here's my contribution

Why do so many undervalue the importance of the OL. Just take a look at the successful QBs, rookie or otherwise, and see who stands out. Are they behind a good OL or a bad OL. Dak Prescott started behind a good OL. Mac Jones is starting behind a good OL. Trevor Lawrence, not so much. Daniel Jones, not so much. Hell look at Josh Allen and compare his stats with how good his OL was in the same year. You don't see a correlation? Seems to me his stats were better the better his OL was and vice versa.

A good OL gives the QB more time to throw. A good OL establishes a rush threat. Make a defense respect the run and it opens up the passing game more. A defense is forced to respect play action. A solid run game (and/or solid dink and dunk game) takes time off the clock. This keeps their opponents defense on the field to exhaust them and the opponents offense cold so they can't get in a rhythm. Control the clock, control the game.

A QB that can overcome a bad OL is very very rare. Even then it takes some great coaching to devise a game plan to cover up a bad OL. One of those rare QBs, I give them 2 extra wins at best to play behind our current OL.

I don't care if it's Daniel Jones, the next Tom Brady, or Napoleon Dynamite's Uncle Rico. You start a QB behind this OL and you will never know if he is, or could be, any good. OL is the priority BEFORE you look for or decide on a QB.

certain people get the fact that we need to fix the OL or it doesn't matter

It's a parody at this point with you. Do you really need this much attention on a damn Internet message board about Football? Every single one you start could just as easily be discussed in the last 18 ones you started bashing him over the last few days.

DId the guy bang your wife or something?

In comment 15543666 montanagiant said:

Quote:

It's a parody at this point with you. Do you really need this much attention on a damn Internet message board about Football? Every single one you start could just as easily be discussed in the last 18 ones you started bashing him over the last few days. DId the guy bang your wife or something?

A few things bug me about Jones and his boosters here.

Firstly, there has to be some code. If Eli had to play behind a bad oline and not get the benefit of the doubt -- a 2x SB MVP; #1 pick in the draft ; and had decent stats with a just as bad oline -- why is Jones getting this?

Also why is everyone on board with hamstringing a new GM with Gettle's old crap? His coach and his QB specifically? No one but Abrahms is going to want that job.

Furthermore, I am kind of sick of all the pie-in-the-sky dreamers who think you are finding a GOAT like Brady so you have to keep your 6th round picks; or that Fromm is going to be like Joe Montana ; or that Jones is going to be like Steve Young. The odds are better, not that he will be, but that he already is like a Drew Henson.

For the love of god, Fix. The. Line.

How many quarterbacks, coaches, and general managers do we have to go through before they fix the line.

(And whoever needs to hear it, the Pixies are an awesome band.)

In comment 15543950 Debaser said:

Quote:

In comment 15543666 montanagiant said: Quote: It's a parody at this point with you. Do you really need this much attention on a damn Internet message board about Football? Every single one you start could just as easily be discussed in the last 18 ones you started bashing him over the last few days. DId the guy bang your wife or something? A few things bug me about Jones and his boosters here. Firstly, there has to be some code. If Eli had to play behind a bad oline and not get the benefit of the doubt -- a 2x SB MVP; #1 pick in the draft ; and had decent stats with a just as bad oline -- why is Jones getting this? Also why is everyone on board with hamstringing a new GM with Gettle's old crap? His coach and his QB specifically? No one but Abrahms is going to want that job. Furthermore, I am kind of sick of all the pie-in-the-sky dreamers who think you are finding a GOAT like Brady so you have to keep your 6th round picks; or that Fromm is going to be like Joe Montana ; or that Jones is going to be like Steve Young. The odds are better, not that he will be, but that he already is like a Drew Henson.

Where is anyone even arguing with you about Jones on this thread? You're at a point where no one is even bothering with it anymore. You keep trying to make these BS embellished strawdog arguments using comparisons that not one single member on BBI has ever said.
Get a fucking life outside of bashing Jones on here