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Can Judge change ?

Archer : 1/10/2022 7:38 pm
Can a tiger change his stripes?

If Joe Judge remains as coach of the Giants, does he have the capacity to self-evaluate, recognize his faults and change the way he coaches?

Judge’s coaching philosophy undermines the team’s ability to succeed. Judge is conservative to a fault. He coaches scared. Judge plays not to lose rather than trying to win.

This philosophy filters down to the coaches and players. The team plays tentatively trying to avoid errors. Aggression is filtered out of the play.

The offense has become offensive. I have never seen such a poorly coached offense. The opposing defenses come into a game without fear of the Giants attacking the boundaries. They play the run and stop the Giants. There is no attempt to force the action. The Giants resorted to gimmicks when they attempted to be aggressive, they do this because the team cannot run basic plays to pick up 3 yards.

Vince Lombardi did not care if the opponent knew what he was running. He just forced his will. That is aggression.

The defense played well at times but also subscribes to a conservative approach. The bend and not break is another example of coaching not to lose. The Giants played predominantly a 2 deep zone with three or four rushing. The team took away the long pass plays but at the expense of stopping the run, short or intermediate passing. It was death by a thousand paper cuts.

Other than the best player on the team Graham Gano , the specials were anything other than special. The Giants one attempt to be aggressive on the specials was an ill-timed and poorly executed a fake punt. I am not certain if Dixon is so bad, or he was kicking tentatively to avoid getting a punt block.

Judge’s philosophy can be seen on the field as well. His use of timeouts is incomprehensible. Calling timeouts to change a defense, to change the offense, to avoid a 5-yard delay of game penalty. This is not about a lack of aggression but occurs due to a fear of failure. He was looking for the perfect call.

Judge is a smart coach who knows football and understands team football. But he has no confidence in the team. Perhaps his lack of confidence is well founded but can he change when the team improves the talent? Can he coach to win?

Do  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2022 7:39 pm : link
you want to stay bad or not?

This is starting to sound like wives stuck in abusive relationships.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/10/2022 7:41 pm : link
I doubt it. He is an overly conservative coach by nature whose football mindset doesn't work in 2021.
sure he changed from promising year 1 to disappointing year 2  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2022 7:43 pm : link
the qb sneaks yesterday were embarrassing and for whatever reason embarrassing was stuck in the default position far too much the last couple month. he seemed to just not be able to understand the situation once he started taking incoming fire.

to fix a problem you have to acknowledge and understand it, and i dont know how we can expect change if we don't see that (and we haven't).
if i can change...  
only1eli : 1/10/2022 7:43 pm : link
you can change...
Everybody Can Change - ( New Window )
Yes!  
JohnB : 1/10/2022 7:45 pm : link
But he has so far to go, he’s not worth keeping around. Maybe someday he’ll make the leap into something that resembles an NFL coach. But for now, he’s not even in the ballpark. He may change someday but the Giants shouldn’t wait around for that to happen.
Maybe he coached conservatively because he had to  
GiantNatty : 1/10/2022 7:45 pm : link
He didn’t have the talent, or the confidence in his talent, that would allow him to play it more loosely. Their game plans were to keep games close and hope for someone to step up late. Not a bad plan when you’re almost always outmanned.
RE: Do  
ryanmkeane : 1/10/2022 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15544231 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you want to stay bad or not?

This is starting to sound like wives stuck in abusive relationships.

Right - cause never in the history of football has a young head coach started off slow.
RE: if i can change...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/10/2022 7:48 pm : link
In comment 15544245 only1eli said:
Quote:
you can change... Everybody Can Change - ( New Window )


The Russians turning on Drago & cheering Rocky...most absurd thing I've ever seen in a sports movie. And I still think that's my favorite Rocky movie, Haha.
RE: Maybe he coached conservatively because he had to  
BigBlueShock : 1/10/2022 7:50 pm : link
In comment 15544251 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
He didn’t have the talent, or the confidence in his talent, that would allow him to play it more loosely. Their game plans were to keep games close and hope for someone to step up late. Not a bad plan when you’re almost always outmanned.

He said in his last PC that this is the philosophy he believes in. It’s not going to change. It’s who he is.
RE: Maybe he coached conservatively because he had to  
GmanND : 1/10/2022 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15544251 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
He didn’t have the talent, or the confidence in his talent, that would allow him to play it more loosely. Their game plans were to keep games close and hope for someone to step up late. Not a bad plan when you’re almost always outmanned.


Counter point - Dan Campbell and the Detroit Lions?
RE: Maybe he coached conservatively because he had to  
GMen72 : 1/10/2022 7:52 pm : link
In comment 15544251 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
He didn’t have the talent, or the confidence in his talent, that would allow him to play it more loosely. Their game plans were to keep games close and hope for someone to step up late. Not a bad plan when you’re almost always outmanned.


Inferior talent being coached not to win...10-23. Let's get more where that came from!
Sure  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/10/2022 7:56 pm : link
He can make some adjustments but In the end he just does not have the necessary leadership traits at this level. Then he doesn’t have the expertise to fix a offense or defense and has very questionable skills in identifying those that can. Two years in with declining results spells no respect from others moving forward imv. But there’s always a chance.
the change he needs  
thrunthrublue : 1/10/2022 7:58 pm : link
is all new offense/defense/specials coaches with complete autonomy......all new coordinators, scouts.....what he should do on game day is work at the Pepsi or parking concession......that is the best change he can do positively for the nyg.
Yes, he can change  
sec308 : 1/10/2022 8:05 pm : link
teams!
Change from what to what?  
compton : 1/10/2022 8:06 pm : link
Judge is in over his head and I see nothing that will make me believe he has the ability to coach the players up, install an identity, develop astute in game management, fix the offence, etc. Judge may get a second chance and develop into a good HC somewhere else, as many do, but his tenure here should come to an abrupt end.
This guy thinks so...  
j_rud : 1/10/2022 8:07 pm : link
Bill Parcells did  
Beer Man : 1/10/2022 8:14 pm : link
A lot of Giants fans wanted Bill fired after the 83 season. It still pisses me off today that he started that Bum, Scott Brunner over Simms.
RE: RE: if i can change...  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/10/2022 8:18 pm : link
In comment 15544263 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15544245 only1eli said:


Quote:


you can change... Everybody Can Change - ( New Window )



The Russians turning on Drago & cheering Rocky...most absurd thing I've ever seen in a sports movie. And I still think that's my favorite Rocky movie, Haha.


Watching that movie in a theater in Staten Island, people were literally chanting USA-USA-USA in the aisles!

Rocky III was better IMO.
Also ...  
Beer Man : 1/10/2022 8:19 pm : link
Many of the NFL's SB winning coaches failed earlier in their H.C. careers. If the team keeps Judge, we will see if he can be one of them that figured it out.
When has Joe Judge ever done anything  
ghost718 : 1/10/2022 8:21 pm : link
or said anything remotely smart?

I know he uses a lot of fancy terminology,but it doesn't add up to much.
RE: RE: RE: if i can change...  
j_rud : 1/10/2022 8:24 pm : link
In comment 15544355 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 15544263 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


In comment 15544245 only1eli said:


Quote:


you can change... Everybody Can Change - ( New Window )



The Russians turning on Drago & cheering Rocky...most absurd thing I've ever seen in a sports movie. And I still think that's my favorite Rocky movie, Haha.



Watching that movie in a theater in Staten Island, people were literally chanting USA-USA-USA in the aisles!

Rocky III was better IMO.


The Rocky character arc is like a boxing themed Flowers for Algernon. He's borderline-retarded in that first movie. Not as a pejorative, his IQ is a legit 65 tips. Then because they decided to make more he gradually got smarter. By 3 he was an average guy and by 4 he literally looked like he had evolved 3 generations from the caveman who took Adrian to the zoo. Then by 5 he gets punched back into stupid.

Rocky Balboa = Charlie Gordon.
I personally don’t believe he’s capable of turning this team around.  
Simms11 : 1/10/2022 8:26 pm : link
I don’t think he’s got the experience or background to do it. Just fire him already, this is getting ridiculous.
RE: Maybe he coached conservatively because he had to  
Regular Coffee : 1/10/2022 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15544251 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
He didn’t have the talent, or the confidence in his talent, that would allow him to play it more loosely. Their game plans were to keep games close and hope for someone to step up late. Not a bad plan when you’re almost always outmanned.


Playing not to lose is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, a good plan. Why do we have to suffer through his growing pains (possibly permanent coaching ineptitude)????
Coughlin did … or so they said  
flapjack : 1/10/2022 8:28 pm : link
Then he got a ring.
I like a good redemption story.
Beats jamming fists full of pessimistic sand into my vagina every day.
Can he change?  
Bill in UT : 1/10/2022 8:29 pm : link
Out of conviction, no. Out of necessity, to a degree. But his convictions will always undermine what he's being forced to do
Reasonable question...  
bw in dc : 1/10/2022 8:31 pm : link
But the best bet, IMV, is for Judge to experience the benefits of that possible change with another team.

The experiment, which I endorsed, has failed.
Could this possibly be part of Judge’s plea to Mara?  
bwitz : 1/10/2022 8:56 pm : link

I Can Change! - ( New Window )
RE: Maybe he coached conservatively because he had to  
TyreeHelmet : 1/10/2022 9:01 pm : link
In comment 15544251 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
He didn’t have the talent, or the confidence in his talent, that would allow him to play it more loosely. Their game plans were to keep games close and hope for someone to step up late. Not a bad plan when you’re almost always outmanned.


You can't be serious right?

Some fans are truly broken.
RE: RE: RE: RE: if i can change...  
bwitz : 1/10/2022 9:02 pm : link
In comment 15544372 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 15544355 SirLoinOfBeef said:


Quote:


In comment 15544263 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


In comment 15544245 only1eli said:


Quote:


you can change... Everybody Can Change - ( New Window )



The Russians turning on Drago & cheering Rocky...most absurd thing I've ever seen in a sports movie. And I still think that's my favorite Rocky movie, Haha.



Watching that movie in a theater in Staten Island, people were literally chanting USA-USA-USA in the aisles!

Rocky III was better IMO.



The Rocky character arc is like a boxing themed Flowers for Algernon. He's borderline-retarded in that first movie. Not as a pejorative, his IQ is a legit 65 tips. Then because they decided to make more he gradually got smarter. By 3 he was an average guy and by 4 he literally looked like he had evolved 3 generations from the caveman who took Adrian to the zoo. Then by 5 he gets punched back into stupid.

Rocky Balboa = Charlie Gordon.


This analogy would be sound. Except, he really didn’t get smarter. He just got richer, lost his paternal figure, twice, and eventually lost those riches because he was, well, Rocky.
wrong question  
Josh in MD : 1/10/2022 9:20 pm : link
This is very much the wrong question. True, his in-game decision-making was lousy, But that was the least of the problems. The whole team was confused a lot of the time. Witness all the bizarre timeouts. They started the season committing countless penalties. They just weren't prepared or inspired. None of this will change even if he learns to make better in-game decisions.
Neville Chamberlain changed. It was he, not Churchill, who secured parliament's declaration of war on Germany. Having corrected his error of appeasement, he hoped to just go on from there. But, Parliament (and the public) would have no more of him. Now that the country was at war, they wanted a real leader at the helm.
MP Leo Amery's words at that moment to Chamberlain might as well be spoken to Judge: "you have sat here too long for any good you are doing. . . . In the name of God, go."
to quote David Bowie -  
Del Shofner : 1/10/2022 9:22 pm : link
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-changes
Don't want to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-changes
There's gonna have to be a different man
RE: Do  
TC : 1/10/2022 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15544231 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you want to stay bad or not?

This is starting to sound like wives stuck in abusive relationships.

+1,000,000!

Judge is basically full of shit. No matter what he does, he'll still be full of it. A Belichick wannabe without the Belichick talent.

If you don't know how to fix the problems, and just start throwing other people under the bus because of it, you're not going to change anyway but get worse.

Maybe the Giants could let him be Vice President in charge of culture. Alternately, I think he'd be really good at selling mattresses. I'm sure John Mara will line up to get some.

RE: Coughlin did … or so they said  
Blue Dream : 1/10/2022 11:15 pm : link
In comment 15544386 flapjack said:
Quote:
Then he got a ring.
I like a good redemption story.
Beats jamming fists full of pessimistic sand into my vagina every day.


Then he gets canned went to Jacksonville and changed right back to who he was before
No - he has that A-hole gene  
averagejoe : 1/10/2022 11:35 pm : link
deeply embedded . This guy makes Rex Ryan look classy . In a league filled with jackasses and dunces he stands out. He can change jobs but he won't change.
Did Parcells change?  
short lease : 1/11/2022 3:39 am : link

Coughlin?
RE: Did Parcells change?  
Beer Man : 1/11/2022 5:16 am : link
In comment 15544973 short lease said:
Quote:

Coughlin?
Change is probably not the right term/word. They learned from their mistakes and grew to become championship HCs. The real question for Judge (if the team keeps him), can he also learn from his mistakes and grow as a HC.
I think he can change  
Chocco : 1/11/2022 5:39 am : link
But he will need to do it in another team. I think the best think for Joe Judge at this point is to take a Special team coach job on another team. Then a position coach on offense or defense. Don't go back to the Patriots. Take a job at KC, Dallas or New Orleans. Learn a different style of football. Work your way into a DC or OC. Keep your mind open to learning different things.
That's how I think he could change.
RE: RE: Did Parcells change?  
short lease : 1/11/2022 5:40 am : link
In comment 15544984 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 15544973 short lease said:


Quote:



Coughlin?

Change is probably not the right term/word. They learned from their mistakes and grew to become championship HCs. The real question for Judge (if the team keeps him), can he also learn from his mistakes and grow as a HC.



+1
WTF?!  
Matt M. : 1/11/2022 6:48 am : link
His issues go deeper than coaching philosophy, or insane rants to the press. He has proven every week, multiple times a week that ON THE FIELD this job is too big for him. He hasn't managed the clock well. He hasn't managed challenges well. His team has not been disciplined. His team has not been fundamentally sound. His coaches as teachers bloated coaching staff hasn't gotten more than 1 or 2 players better. He has made 2 coaches scapegoats and inexplicably each of their areas of expertise got WORSE (OL and overall offense). And on and on.

Can he change? Sure. He can change his diarrhea of the mouth and bullshit. But, thay won't make him a better coach. He's just a ST coach on HC clothing. Abd, at that our ST suck. Instead of embarrassing your handpicked OL coach, why didn't he grt on the field and coach ST?

I don't care if he can change. I do t care if he one day gets it. He took a bad and struggling team and made it worse. He played a big part on this clown show mantra.
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