Backup RT getting toasted play after play by Maxx Crosby. OL was being abused. Pressure everytime he dropped back. Took numerous big hits. Receivers dropping balls. Ineffective run game.
Yet, with all those offensive woes, he put team on his shoulders and almost won a game where they were clearly outplayed by their opponents.
QB is the most important position in sports and a great one can cover up a lot of offensive deficiencies / inferior talent.
Sorry DJ apologists, if Herbert was on the Giants, his superior talent would still jump off the screen and be obvious to all.
How great was he last night on 4th down??
He's brilliant and only 23.
When I watch Herbert and Allen play and my envy soars.
This offensive line didn't have 'deficiencies' it was putrid at four positions after the 6th quarter of the year. Name a Giants offensive lineman other than Thomas who would play at all for any other team. Some wouldn't even make another team. Herbert was missing one lineman out of a group of five above average to very good starters.
My point is that people need to be realistic as to what DJ is and stop thinking that if only he had more support, he'd develop into a top tier QB. Strategy going into next year needs to be that DJ is not part of our long-term plans.
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is the OL important? Yes however a great QB can still make plays despite OL deficiencies. It's not something people here want to hear.
Pressure is pressure and he was under a lot of it last night. He didn't panic and throw stupid interceptions or fumble.
This offensive line didn't have 'deficiencies' it was putrid at four positions after the 6th quarter of the year. Name a Giants offensive lineman other than Thomas who would play at all for any other team. Some wouldn't even make another team. Herbert was missing one lineman out of a group of five above average to very good starters.
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is the OL important? Yes however a great QB can still make plays despite OL deficiencies. It's not something people here want to hear.
This offensive line didn't have 'deficiencies' it was putrid at four positions after the 6th quarter of the year. Name a Giants offensive lineman other than Thomas who would play at all for any other team. Some wouldn't even make another team. Herbert was missing one lineman out of a group of five above average to very good starters.
Herbert was under tons of pressure and still make good decisions and threw strikes. He didn't panic and lock on receivers, throw boneheaded interceptions or fumble.
If DG loved Herbert the way Accorsi loved Eli, he should’ve just taken him when he had the chance and traded Jones off a decent rookie year.
Are you and Giants42 the same dupe or is it just a wild coincidence ?
Herbert's talent is self evident. However, I think DJ is closer than you likely think. Biggest difference to my eye was decisiveness. In my opinion, that comes from coaching and confidence. If anyone is criticized on ball security and coached continuously on ball security, they will become tentative.
I can't remember the quote but I do remember Parcels on sideline saying he wanted Simms to take chances even if he throws a pick. My impression based on my observation of the results is that Jones is getting the opposite feedback, to his detriment.
Normally when you have a chance to grab a guy like that it is BECAUSE you suck and have holes in the roster.
Hopefully next year we have that chance.
He made some incredible reads. It was a really enjoyable game.
Herbert's talent is self evident. However, I think DJ is closer than you likely think. Biggest difference to my eye was decisiveness. In my opinion, that comes from coaching and confidence. If anyone is criticized on ball security and coached continuously on ball security, they will become tentative.
I can't remember the quote but I do remember Parcels on sideline saying he wanted Simms to take chances even if he throws a pick. My impression based on my observation of the results is that Jones is getting the opposite feedback, to his detriment.
Jones doesn't compare to Herbert in many regards. Pocket awareness and presence. Decision-making. Progressions. Movement. But the biggest difference is arm talent. You see that right? Herbert throws lasers on 30 yard outs. The best way to put it is, the way Jones throws 10 yard passes, Herbert throws 30 yard passes. Herbert throws 45 yard passes the way most QBs throw 20 yard passes. His arm talent is unreal, and is an incredible advantage.
Great game. Felt like a playoff game (I guess it kinda was)
Having said that, I don't see the point in playing this game anymore. Herbert is absurdly good and, taking into account his youth, probably one of the top 3-4 QBs you'd take if you were starting an expansion franchise at this point in time. Arguably the top two behind Mahomes.
But it's over and done with. It sucks to see him in a Chargers jersey knowing that if Oregon just didn't give his brother a scholarship he'd have come out a year earlier and been a Giant, but it is what it is at this point.
Anyone trying to compare him to Daniel Jones needs their head examined, but it's also a pointless exercise.
And anyone trying to contend Herbert isn't awesome (whether it's some stupid ass mental gymnastics to defend Daniel Jones or not) should just STFU and never talk about football again.
Herbert had help too. His receivers made great catches too. They were both on the same page; Herbert throwing where only they could get it and, receivers making diving catches.
I have not seen anything like that from the Giants receivers.
How great was he last night on 4th down??
He's brilliant and only 23.
When I watch Herbert and Allen play and my envy soars.
What impressed me was his composure. That's what all the great QBs have.
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I am not responding to this as a Jones apologist, though I will likely be labeled as such and summarily dismissed because of what I am going to say.
Herbert's talent is self evident. However, I think DJ is closer than you likely think. Biggest difference to my eye was decisiveness. In my opinion, that comes from coaching and confidence. If anyone is criticized on ball security and coached continuously on ball security, they will become tentative.
I can't remember the quote but I do remember Parcels on sideline saying he wanted Simms to take chances even if he throws a pick. My impression based on my observation of the results is that Jones is getting the opposite feedback, to his detriment.
Jones doesn't compare to Herbert in many regards. Pocket awareness and presence. Decision-making. Progressions. Movement. But the biggest difference is arm talent. You see that right? Herbert throws lasers on 30 yard outs. The best way to put it is, the way Jones throws 10 yard passes, Herbert throws 30 yard passes. Herbert throws 45 yard passes the way most QBs throw 20 yard passes. His arm talent is unreal, and is an incredible advantage.
Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
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when Herbert was a rookie he had the highest QBR in the NFL under pressure. So he can handle adversity and doesn't need everything to be pristine.
How great was he last night on 4th down??
He's brilliant and only 23.
When I watch Herbert and Allen play and my envy soars.
What impressed me was his composure. That's what all the great QBs have.
He has that in spades. Some of those throws last night with the game down to the last play - about 10X - were extraordinary. Fitting the ball into tight windows with serious pace and accuracy.
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In comment 15544581 JinCO said:
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I am not responding to this as a Jones apologist, though I will likely be labeled as such and summarily dismissed because of what I am going to say.
Herbert's talent is self evident. However, I think DJ is closer than you likely think. Biggest difference to my eye was decisiveness. In my opinion, that comes from coaching and confidence. If anyone is criticized on ball security and coached continuously on ball security, they will become tentative.
I can't remember the quote but I do remember Parcels on sideline saying he wanted Simms to take chances even if he throws a pick. My impression based on my observation of the results is that Jones is getting the opposite feedback, to his detriment.
Jones doesn't compare to Herbert in many regards. Pocket awareness and presence. Decision-making. Progressions. Movement. But the biggest difference is arm talent. You see that right? Herbert throws lasers on 30 yard outs. The best way to put it is, the way Jones throws 10 yard passes, Herbert throws 30 yard passes. Herbert throws 45 yard passes the way most QBs throw 20 yard passes. His arm talent is unreal, and is an incredible advantage.
Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
It's not an exaggeration. I'm not saying it is three times better. It is vastly superior. I have watched most of his throws in the NFL throws. I suggest you watch more clips. He throws 50 yard lasers with much less air than any other QB in the league. And he is doing that all over the field. His 30 yard passes look so easy and effortless it is astonishing, and literally looks like a Jones 10 to 15 yard pass.
This team will sick even if they get a QB by some miracle until they find a GM who knows is shit and they let him do his job without interference
Sadly they get FA wrong even more than the draft. Brady and Mahomes would lose here as stands
Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
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Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
I think Herbert has the best arm in the league, better than Allen. Possibly the best arm ever. I think the zip on intermediate and long throws is stunning.
I am not a DG fan for obvious reasons. But the reports were indicating that he really liked Herbert after his Junior year. Herbert opted to return to Oregon for his senior season.
The question here is who really picked Jones? Did DG like Jones or did the Mara influence come in and push to pick the next Eli, Cutcliffe ties, etc.?
It’s also possible DG wanted Herbert, could draft him in 2019 and panic picked Jones to fit a QB need. We’ll never know.
I think Herbert has the best arm in the league, better than Allen. Possibly the best arm ever. I think the zip on intermediate and long throws is stunning.
He's in the conversation. That throw against us on that 60+ yard TD was, IMV, the throw of the year.
Allen doesn't throw as pretty of a ball as Herbert. But his pace is right there with Elway, who had the strongest arm I've seen.
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Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
Whatever, if it makes you feel better. There is nothing wrong (or more believable) if you simply say his arm is better.
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I think Herbert has the best arm in the league, better than Allen. Possibly the best arm ever. I think the zip on intermediate and long throws is stunning.
He's in the conversation. That throw against us on that 60+ yard TD was, IMV, the throw of the year.
Allen doesn't throw as pretty of a ball as Herbert. But his pace is right there with Elway, who had the strongest arm I've seen.
That TD at the end of the first half against us was a helluva throw but I think the throw vs Dallas is the throw of the year. It's 50 yards but it is across the field so it is at least 60 yds and there is little arc and he still is able to drop it in between two defenders. I think this is an astonishing throw. Link below. And Jones certainly can't make it, and I'm not sure Mahomes or Rodgers could, I guess they might, but they probably wouldn't attempt it.
Herbert throw vs Dallas. - ( New Window )
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In comment 15544671 section125 said:
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Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
I think Herbert has the best arm in the league, better than Allen. Possibly the best arm ever. I think the zip on intermediate and long throws is stunning.
I like Herbert, but let’s pump the brakes a bit. “Possibly the best arm ever.” He’s played two seasons. Let’s see a little more of this guy before we start anointing him as a legend.
The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
Whatever, if it makes you feel better. There is nothing wrong (or more believable) if you simply say his arm is better.
I'll let it go because this is so subjective, but Herbert's arm talent is elite. It's fun to watch him at his craft.
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In comment 15544712 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15544671 section125 said:
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Herbert is far better than Jones in every aspect. But please, don't exaggerate the arm strength. Yes it is better, it is not 3 times better.
The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
I think Herbert has the best arm in the league, better than Allen. Possibly the best arm ever. I think the zip on intermediate and long throws is stunning.
I like Herbert, but let’s pump the brakes a bit. “Possibly the best arm ever.” He’s played two seasons. Let’s see a little more of this guy before we start anointing him as a legend.
He's a legend already. He has physical gifts that are unlikely to wane for at least 15 years. You have Romo, Aikman, Warner, Young, literally gushing. He's there dude. Just appreciate it.
Focus efforts on the 2023 draft when our new GM will be picking his next QB. A QB who will have his blindside protected by the guy we drafted in 2020, Andrew Thomas (assumes the QB of the future is right handed lol).
Allen set a record at the combine with a 62 mph throw. He also threw a football more than 66 mph at the Senior Bowl.
Some believe Allen can throw it 90, even 100 yards in the air.
Allen has the biggest arm in the NFL. Herbert is very good, but it would be between he and Mahomes for 2nd biggest arm in the NFL, nobody's touching Allen's shoulder cannon.
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The arm talent overall is probably 3X.
Whatever, if it makes you feel better. There is nothing wrong (or more believable) if you simply say his arm is better.
I'll let it go because this is so subjective, but Herbert's arm talent is elite. It's fun to watch him at his craft.
You'll let it go? WTF does that mean. Is he as good as Rodgers?
Too bad he went back to Oregon to get no where a CFP.
Allen set a record at the combine with a 62 mph throw. He also threw a football more than 66 mph at the Senior Bowl.
Some believe Allen can throw it 90, even 100 yards in the air.
Allen has the biggest arm in the NFL. Herbert is very good, but it would be between he and Mahomes for 2nd biggest arm in the NFL, nobody's touching Allen's shoulder cannon.
I respect Allen's arm but Herbert is better in every regard. I don't care what happened in the combine. Herbert can throw further with lower arc than Allen. And what I especially like about Herbert's arm is that it has a late action that enables him to drop a laser into the pocket. Allen can't do that. I forget who was talking about Herbert's release (Aikman or Romo) but he has a torque to his release like a pitcher and he can make his balls dip with more action than most QBs.
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That is an uninformed opinion.
Allen set a record at the combine with a 62 mph throw. He also threw a football more than 66 mph at the Senior Bowl.
Some believe Allen can throw it 90, even 100 yards in the air.
Allen has the biggest arm in the NFL. Herbert is very good, but it would be between he and Mahomes for 2nd biggest arm in the NFL, nobody's touching Allen's shoulder cannon.
I respect Allen's arm but Herbert is better in every regard. I don't care what happened in the combine. Herbert can throw further with lower arc than Allen. And what I especially like about Herbert's arm is that it has a late action that enables him to drop a laser into the pocket. Allen can't do that. I forget who was talking about Herbert's release (Aikman or Romo) but he has a torque to his release like a pitcher and he can make his balls dip with more action than most QBs.
No he cannot. You are literally making that up. Show me the film where Herbert can unvork an 80 yarder. You can't. But I can show you Allen throwing it 80 yards in the air.
I"m a fan of Herbert, but he's a tick or two behind Allen in terms if arm strength. I'm not saying he's a better or worse QB, but Herbert simply isn't on Allen's level in arm strength, and I don't think anyone is.
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In comment 15544845 allstarjim said:
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That is an uninformed opinion.
Allen set a record at the combine with a 62 mph throw. He also threw a football more than 66 mph at the Senior Bowl.
Some believe Allen can throw it 90, even 100 yards in the air.
Allen has the biggest arm in the NFL. Herbert is very good, but it would be between he and Mahomes for 2nd biggest arm in the NFL, nobody's touching Allen's shoulder cannon.
I respect Allen's arm but Herbert is better in every regard. I don't care what happened in the combine. Herbert can throw further with lower arc than Allen. And what I especially like about Herbert's arm is that it has a late action that enables him to drop a laser into the pocket. Allen can't do that. I forget who was talking about Herbert's release (Aikman or Romo) but he has a torque to his release like a pitcher and he can make his balls dip with more action than most QBs.
No he cannot. You are literally making that up. Show me the film where Herbert can unvork an 80 yarder. You can't. But I can show you Allen throwing it 80 yards in the air.
I"m a fan of Herbert, but he's a tick or two behind Allen in terms if arm strength. I'm not saying he's a better or worse QB, but Herbert simply isn't on Allen's level in arm strength, and I don't think anyone is.
He could do it. He has thrown 62 yards flat-footed.