That's what it could be.Not really buying the new GM has the power to fire Judge.Maybe in a few days when the smoke clears,they'll attempt to announce Judge is staying.
When you see a decision this easy met with hesitancy,it might not be a good sign.
1. This is the first day after the last game of the season
2. We are done with Gettleman
3. It looks like we are interviewing a few interesting GM candidates
4. Mara has not committed to bringing Judge back yet. There simply has been no decision. This is not a bad thing at this point if he is allowing the new GM to weigh in.
So, the only way this is a bad day is if you for some reason NEEDED Judge to get fired TODAY.
Yeah I agree although disappointed that it does not seem they have a clear plan. Maybe they do and the media coverage makes it look like they don't.
I would have liked Judge to be fired but reports have come out saying it will be up to the GM and I also like some of the names being discussed for the Giants GM job. Especially the news of Abrams not being a candidate. As of today there is some optimism.
That Accorsi won't be involved this time. I don't need anymore would be GMs having to present Ernie with history lessons on the 1972 Baltimore Colts and why their backup left guard was underrated.
It's a start but they need to make good decisions going forward.
Can't let them off the hook they need to follow through and revamp the organization.
Hire a solid GM, revamp the personal department, move on from Judge, draft well, clean up the cap. hire a competent coaching staff.
A lot of work and a ton of checkpoints, not a lot of room for mistakes or back peddling.
Cautiously optimistic. Let’s nail this GM hire. They have a real list of candidates with a bunch of real professionals included. Not a single one induced a snigger.
Been waiting for the post Gettleman era for three years
Despite some comments today that could mean something or nothing, there is no hard proof that the Mara family and cronies are removing themselves from personnel/scouting and football operations, which is necessary for the team to make real progress.
and see at the moment. The report of Judge being retained gave me hopelessness, but was happy when it turned out to not be the case. Abrahams being confirmed as not a potential hire is good news. The list of GM candidates are all the ones most seemed to hope for. The fact that nothing has been said officially in regards to Judge makes me think Mara is going to allow the GM to decide whether or not to move on from him, which I think is the right thing to do (the obvious concern is that Mara will choose whichever says they'll give Judge another year, which will be a red flag for the GM to me).
...Judge has done nothing to earn this stay of execution, so not sure how he still has a job.
Leaving him in place tells the next GM that Mara wants him to stay.
The next GM should not be forced to make a decision that his new boss might not support.
Leaving Judge in place is not the clean slate the organization needs.
1---- DG is gone. I hated him and his pompas attitude but more importantly I thought he was a moron too blind to see the game passed him by. I think he is the worst GM the Giants ever had. Put that on your resume Dave!!!!
2--- Looks like Abrams is out for GM which means more than likely Judge is out when new GM is hired.
This! One organization is committed to winning and getting better, another isn't. The Giants brass are so scared to start a season with a clean slate, even with a 10-23, embarrassing HC.
It may workout, but keeping JJ in the picture was more of the same for this organization.
I hope that it just came out today and they started 2 weeks ago.
Judge should be a GM call. Not sure if having Judge might turn some GM off...but list looks decent, at least they are removing internal options and going to successful external choices.
I do not know enough....so will feel good when I see results.
How it's anything other than a disappointment so far.
Consensus the last few weeks has generally been that all of these people need to go:
1. Gettleman
2. Judge
3. Chris Mara
4. O'Donnell
5. Pettit
6. Abrams
Out of all these guys, only Gettleman is gone. There's not a single reason to give the Mara's any benefit of the doubt when it comes to getting rid of the rest of that club.
Every single minute they keep Judge is going to muddy the waters further when it comes to the GM search. Judge is obviously going to push heavily to hire the guy most likely to keep him around. There is not a single GM worth having who is going to want Judge to be the HC next year. Just get rid of him already and let the GM pick a new HC.
If they get rid of Judge tomorrow, I'd turn from dissapointed to neutral, but every single day they keep Judge the chance the Mara's are going to fuck this up all over again is waaaaay higher then the chance they will get it right.
On the positive side, they are doing a real GM search and seemingly willing to give that person powers unprecedented for the Giants. Maybe the Maras are learning to stick to horse racing and Westchester croquet leagues. And Gettleman is retired.
On the negative side, they should have made a quick and clean break with Judge. Which muddies my optimism that they are truly committed to delegating to a football pro.
Has there been another team who vacillates about the head coach while at the same time trying to hire the next GM? Add that JJ wants input on the search? Are you kidding me?!! His future is on shaky ground as it is. What owner would allow this to go on? Oh yea, Mara!
John Mara decides to punt the decision to retain JJ and let "the other guy" do it. Yes, ultimately I guess that's what we all want but it just seems like a half measure. Rip the bandaid off and send a clear message to the fans that you finally got it!
John Mara decides to punt the decision to retain JJ and let "the other guy" do it. Yes, ultimately I guess that's what we all want but it just seems like a half measure. Rip the bandaid off and send a clear message to the fans that you finally got it!
Looking at the names so far, Schoen and probably Peters look like the best names although that is with the caveat that I do not know how they are thought of in personnel circles which is a clear weakness. If your best candidate said he wants to give Judge the 2022 season for whatever reason (such as actually believing Judge has potential as a Head Coach or looking at cap space doesn’t think this collection of crud is what their preferred option can win with and better to get roster in place to be able to make splash in 2023) it makes no sense to fire Judge before then. The legitimate breadth of the search for GM if Mara will give everyone a legitimate shot is why I am neutral. If this is an interview everyone and give to Abrams or Chris Mara because they don’t see anyone better then I will be beyond pissed.
I know nothing of these candidates except who they currently work for. How do we know that Accorsi isn't involved? Have any of the GM candidates accepted the interview? Someone said they could have been working on this the last two weeks. Again we don't know but strictly from appearances keeping JJ around just shows how dysfunctional this organization is and how it looks to the rest of the league. Flores of all people gets fired but JJ is still here. We are in bizzaro world and we already have a George.
I know nothing of these candidates except who they currently work for. How do we know that Accorsi isn't involved? Have any of the GM candidates accepted the interview? Someone said they could have been working on this the last two weeks. Again we don't know but strictly from appearances keeping JJ around just shows how dysfunctional this organization is and how it looks to the rest of the league. Flores of all people gets fired but JJ is still here. We are in bizzaro world and we already have a George.
John Mara decides to punt the decision to retain JJ and let "the other guy" do it. Yes, ultimately I guess that's what we all want but it just seems like a half measure. Rip the bandaid off and send a clear message to the fans that you finally got it!
Looking at the names so far, Schoen and probably Peters look like the best names although that is with the caveat that I do not know how they are thought of in personnel circles which is a clear weakness. If your best candidate said he wants to give Judge the 2022 season for whatever reason (such as actually believing Judge has potential as a Head Coach or looking at cap space doesn’t think this collection of crud is what their preferred option can win with and better to get roster in place to be able to make splash in 2023) it makes no sense to fire Judge before then. The legitimate breadth of the search for GM if Mara will give everyone a legitimate shot is why I am neutral. If this is an interview everyone and give to Abrams or Chris Mara because they don’t see anyone better then I will be beyond pissed.
I don't buy this one minute. Do you think there is ANY possible GM candidate who is not going to take the job, because he doesn't get to work with Judge?
I think it's far more likely that the continued employment of Judge causes complications in the GM search than a pre-emptive firing would.
I’m cautiously optimistic they really do want to think outside the usual “keep it in the family” box
As for Judge, I wasn’t pining to see him drawn and quartered in the town square on Black Monday the way some others were, but I do hope and pray new GM has full authority to decide his fate
And given a new GM no issues to deal with. Firing someone isn’t an easy thing to do-no matter how valid it is-and now no matter what you’ve saddled a GM with that task essentially right off the bat. It’s stupid an unnecessary-Judge fired himself in the last month. He doesn’t know what he’s doing and sounds like a buffoon. Clean slate this thing. I don’t understand why this was even up for debate-we do NOTHING better than before he got here, on the field at least.
Saints went through 4 qbs, Ravens the same thing, and they were competing for playoff spots. There’s no reason why we couldn’t show some (even minute) improvement over the last month plus without Jones. They deserve to go.
I don't buy this one minute. Do you think there is ANY possible GM candidate who is not going to take the job, because he doesn't get to work with Judge?
I think it's far more likely that the continued employment of Judge causes complications in the GM search than a pre-emptive firing would.
I think it is concern over nothing. The candidates will at least take the interview. It only becomes a problem if Mara indicates that he would like to keep Judge.
To me, the shitty thing here is the assistants are in limbo and do not know what their future is. They could miss out on opportunities elsewhere
To me, the shitty thing here is the assistants are in limbo and do not know what their future is. They could miss out on opportunities elsewhere
It's easy to forget about that piece, but that's a very good observation.
It's important to think about, but, one, they are all free to interview for a step up and fir anything else they are likely to receive permission. But, two, how many opportunities do you think are out there for anyone on this staff? Not a single unit overperformed or showed any sign of improvement. If they were all fired right now, nobody is beating down their doors. They are all 2nd or 3rd choices. The only exceptions MAY be Graham, based on nothing but name.
Those Mara's can be sly foxes. They know lots of people have eyes on all meddling so I am sure they are going to do everything possible change that narrative. Might be month or even longer to see if they are staying out of things.
This stay of execution for Judge is preposterous. I'm really stunned this is possibly still being deliberated.
I agree completely.
If there was ever a "no brainer" decision to be made, it is that Judge should no longer be the HC of the NYG. What more could anyone need to see and/or hear to know that Judge is an utter disaster as HC?
the decision to pull the plug on Judge rather than kick the can to the new GM, but other than that, I'm pretty satisfied with how it went. As long as ownership is serious about A) interviewing and hiring someone with no ties to the organization and B) is really willing to give the new hire real autonomy to make changes.
Option B will be the one to look out for. If the Mara's are serious about letting the new GM make these critical decisions, I'll feel like they are on the right track for the first time since TC was fired.
If you feel the Maras should not be making football
Decisions, why do you want them to be the ones to fire Judge? If they have truly adopted a hands off philosophy, naturally it should be the new GM that fires or retains Judge and hires his own coach. As far as I’m concerned, yesterday was a great start. I like the names in the list.
If the reports are true, why isn't Abrams a candidate? Is there an explanation other than the team heard the fans screaming to go outside for the GM (or they realized it themselves)? If all we wanted was for ownership to get out of football decisions, then I don't know why we want them to fire Judge. I want him gone too, but not until someone hired to run this team decides.
I'm as annoyed as any other STH about what my tickets are worth, but so far they've conducted the search the way I'd hoped. I am willing to see where it goes.
and won't until I see a real desire to compete from the organization. The wishy washy way they are handling Judge is utterly laughable and just shows these guys are out of their depth at managing a large organization in a competitive setting.
I don't think much will change no matter who is hired. They can promise the new GM all the autonomy in the world in the interview process but once he's in the job, he's pretty much captive and at the mercy of whatever the family feels like doing anyway.
I like that they're going outside the organization and I like the profile of candidates they are looking at although I wish it was a little more well-rounded pool.
The Judge thing seems like the passive manipulative approach they have taken in the past. They have an opinion on what to do with Judge, so there is no way that doesn't sway the interviews in some capacity. The timing of it probably leads to him staying too, something I am sure they are aware of. Plus no real statement and the players fielding questions on Judge before any decision maker had to. I'll take a wait and see but some of this feels familiar to me.
That s. not really true. For a long time many were concerned the status quo would be kept. .......
Now:
Gettleman gone, Abrams not his replacement, GM will come from outside and pick the coach
At the very least 3 or 4 things this board wanted have already happened.
The only one of the four that actually happened is Gettleman "retired". Until they prove otherwise, everything else is a rumor.
Ok, that s true. But seems things are trending in that direction, after 1 day that s the best we can hope for, GM search is going to take a while, and it should.
Personally, I m pretty confident the GM will be from outside the organization, I not sure about The Judge situation, and while I see the reasoning why most here want him gone, I m not 100% certain he couldn’t turn things around next season, people learn from mistakes, grow into their jobs.
But because I do agree odds are he would be released after next season, it s probably best that move on
When you see a decision this easy met with hesitancy,it might not be a good sign.
1. This is the first day after the last game of the season
2. We are done with Gettleman
3. It looks like we are interviewing a few interesting GM candidates
4. Mara has not committed to bringing Judge back yet. There simply has been no decision. This is not a bad thing at this point if he is allowing the new GM to weigh in.
So, the only way this is a bad day is if you for some reason NEEDED Judge to get fired TODAY.
Yeah I agree although disappointed that it does not seem they have a clear plan. Maybe they do and the media coverage makes it look like they don't.
Can't let them off the hook they need to follow through and revamp the organization.
Hire a solid GM, revamp the personal department, move on from Judge, draft well, clean up the cap. hire a competent coaching staff.
A lot of work and a ton of checkpoints, not a lot of room for mistakes or back peddling.
Cautiously optimistic. Let’s nail this GM hire. They have a real list of candidates with a bunch of real professionals included. Not a single one induced a snigger.
1 - Get a real GM who seems smart and effective
2 - Remove Chris, Tim and the other dead weight
3 - Fire Judge
If we do 1 and 2, I will be very happy
I'd really like to see them at least talk to Harbaugh as he's the guy who I think could turn around this whole thing the fastest.
Leaving him in place tells the next GM that Mara wants him to stay.
The next GM should not be forced to make a decision that his new boss might not support.
Leaving Judge in place is not the clean slate the organization needs.
2--- Looks like Abrams is out for GM which means more than likely Judge is out when new GM is hired.
GO FIGURE….
2 QB SNEAKS….AND ONE 11 minute stupid rant….
Enough is enough….
This! One organization is committed to winning and getting better, another isn't. The Giants brass are so scared to start a season with a clean slate, even with a 10-23, embarrassing HC.
It may workout, but keeping JJ in the picture was more of the same for this organization.
+1. Exactly how I feel. Very disappointed. Very concerned they're going to keep Judge.
Judge should be a GM call. Not sure if having Judge might turn some GM off...but list looks decent, at least they are removing internal options and going to successful external choices.
I do not know enough....so will feel good when I see results.
Very pleased the 10 year curse has expired
How do you know they didn't?
Consensus the last few weeks has generally been that all of these people need to go:
1. Gettleman
2. Judge
3. Chris Mara
4. O'Donnell
5. Pettit
6. Abrams
Out of all these guys, only Gettleman is gone. There's not a single reason to give the Mara's any benefit of the doubt when it comes to getting rid of the rest of that club.
Every single minute they keep Judge is going to muddy the waters further when it comes to the GM search. Judge is obviously going to push heavily to hire the guy most likely to keep him around. There is not a single GM worth having who is going to want Judge to be the HC next year. Just get rid of him already and let the GM pick a new HC.
If they get rid of Judge tomorrow, I'd turn from dissapointed to neutral, but every single day they keep Judge the chance the Mara's are going to fuck this up all over again is waaaaay higher then the chance they will get it right.
On the negative side, they should have made a quick and clean break with Judge. Which muddies my optimism that they are truly committed to delegating to a football pro.
Looking at the names so far, Schoen and probably Peters look like the best names although that is with the caveat that I do not know how they are thought of in personnel circles which is a clear weakness. If your best candidate said he wants to give Judge the 2022 season for whatever reason (such as actually believing Judge has potential as a Head Coach or looking at cap space doesn’t think this collection of crud is what their preferred option can win with and better to get roster in place to be able to make splash in 2023) it makes no sense to fire Judge before then. The legitimate breadth of the search for GM if Mara will give everyone a legitimate shot is why I am neutral. If this is an interview everyone and give to Abrams or Chris Mara because they don’t see anyone better then I will be beyond pissed.
Would love to get Shoen tbh.
And Matt Rhule still has a job in Carolina
The new GM will most likely fire Judge
That’s my gut feeling
That s. not really true. For a long time many were concerned the status quo would be kept. .......
Now:
Gettleman gone, Abrams not his replacement, GM will come from outside and pick the coach
At the very least 3 or 4 things this board wanted have already happened.
Quote:
John Mara decides to punt the decision to retain JJ and let "the other guy" do it. Yes, ultimately I guess that's what we all want but it just seems like a half measure. Rip the bandaid off and send a clear message to the fans that you finally got it!
Looking at the names so far, Schoen and probably Peters look like the best names although that is with the caveat that I do not know how they are thought of in personnel circles which is a clear weakness. If your best candidate said he wants to give Judge the 2022 season for whatever reason (such as actually believing Judge has potential as a Head Coach or looking at cap space doesn’t think this collection of crud is what their preferred option can win with and better to get roster in place to be able to make splash in 2023) it makes no sense to fire Judge before then. The legitimate breadth of the search for GM if Mara will give everyone a legitimate shot is why I am neutral. If this is an interview everyone and give to Abrams or Chris Mara because they don’t see anyone better then I will be beyond pissed.
I don't buy this one minute. Do you think there is ANY possible GM candidate who is not going to take the job, because he doesn't get to work with Judge?
I think it's far more likely that the continued employment of Judge causes complications in the GM search than a pre-emptive firing would.
As for Judge, I wasn’t pining to see him drawn and quartered in the town square on Black Monday the way some others were, but I do hope and pray new GM has full authority to decide his fate
Saints went through 4 qbs, Ravens the same thing, and they were competing for playoff spots. There’s no reason why we couldn’t show some (even minute) improvement over the last month plus without Jones. They deserve to go.
I don't buy this one minute. Do you think there is ANY possible GM candidate who is not going to take the job, because he doesn't get to work with Judge?
I think it's far more likely that the continued employment of Judge causes complications in the GM search than a pre-emptive firing would.
I think it is concern over nothing. The candidates will at least take the interview. It only becomes a problem if Mara indicates that he would like to keep Judge.
To me, the shitty thing here is the assistants are in limbo and do not know what their future is. They could miss out on opportunities elsewhere
To me, the shitty thing here is the assistants are in limbo and do not know what their future is. They could miss out on opportunities elsewhere
It's easy to forget about that piece, but that's a very good observation.
Quote:
Nothing really happened yet
The new GM will most likely fire Judge
That’s my gut feeling
That s. not really true. For a long time many were concerned the status quo would be kept. .......
Now:
Gettleman gone, Abrams not his replacement, GM will come from outside and pick the coach
At the very least 3 or 4 things this board wanted have already happened.
Quote:
To me, the shitty thing here is the assistants are in limbo and do not know what their future is. They could miss out on opportunities elsewhere
It's easy to forget about that piece, but that's a very good observation.
I agree completely.
If there was ever a "no brainer" decision to be made, it is that Judge should no longer be the HC of the NYG. What more could anyone need to see and/or hear to know that Judge is an utter disaster as HC?
Option B will be the one to look out for. If the Mara's are serious about letting the new GM make these critical decisions, I'll feel like they are on the right track for the first time since TC was fired.
As far as "let the GM decide" well no GM is going to pass on the opportunity because JJ got fired first.
I'm as annoyed as any other STH about what my tickets are worth, but so far they've conducted the search the way I'd hoped. I am willing to see where it goes.
I don't think much will change no matter who is hired. They can promise the new GM all the autonomy in the world in the interview process but once he's in the job, he's pretty much captive and at the mercy of whatever the family feels like doing anyway.
The Judge thing seems like the passive manipulative approach they have taken in the past. They have an opinion on what to do with Judge, so there is no way that doesn't sway the interviews in some capacity. The timing of it probably leads to him staying too, something I am sure they are aware of. Plus no real statement and the players fielding questions on Judge before any decision maker had to. I'll take a wait and see but some of this feels familiar to me.
I don't care if Judge was fired yesterday or in a month by the new GM. The new GM may actually keep him around as lame duck.
I am skeptical about the future of Chris Mara and Tim M.
Quote:
In comment 15544644 cjac said:
Quote:
Nothing really happened yet
The new GM will most likely fire Judge
That’s my gut feeling
That s. not really true. For a long time many were concerned the status quo would be kept. .......
Now:
Gettleman gone, Abrams not his replacement, GM will come from outside and pick the coach
At the very least 3 or 4 things this board wanted have already happened.
The only one of the four that actually happened is Gettleman "retired". Until they prove otherwise, everything else is a rumor.
Ok, that s true. But seems things are trending in that direction, after 1 day that s the best we can hope for, GM search is going to take a while, and it should.
Personally, I m pretty confident the GM will be from outside the organization, I not sure about The Judge situation, and while I see the reasoning why most here want him gone, I m not 100% certain he couldn’t turn things around next season, people learn from mistakes, grow into their jobs.
But because I do agree odds are he would be released after next season, it s probably best that move on