"This can change at any point and the Giants owners can do whatever they want since it's their franchise.
But my understanding is they will still make the final call on Joe Judge. The new GM will have input, and if he (or she) has a better option, the owners will consider it."
I doubt any GM worth his weight wants him.
Should the owner of the team not make the final decision?
I doubt any GM worth his weight wants him.
Why burden the new GM with that decision? I don't want the new GM having to deal with that knowing that this was Mara's hire and he's still in the mix. NFW.
Just take Judge out - and his staff, btw, who deserve the time to find jobs because they have careers, too - so the GM has a real clean slate.
Ralph used the word "understanding" not "opinion". There's a big difference.
Also, I have to laugh at anyone who thought that it was an awesome idea to let the new GM, as his first official act, fire Judge. It's Mara's decision, which means that if he hasn't fired Judge already, he probably won't do it now.
Such a shame....freakin Mara, can't see the tree for the forest
Such a shame....freakin Mara, can't see the tree for the forest
uh....can't see the forest for the trees.....
Quote:
by drawing this out
Yep. Mara is going to hire the GM that tells him what he wants to hear regarding Judge, then send out messages via his lapdog beats that it was the GMs decision to keep Judge. It’s all so predictable
Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.
Saying he wants to approve of the coaching decision does not mean he won’t listen to a convincing argument to make a change.
A new GM that is a leader should be able to be a powerful factor in this decision.
I ll wait and see, up to now Mara has not followed the narrative you describe.
Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.
Enough of this narrative. Those thoughts were brought up - I know I did - because you could NOT rule them out based on Mara's history. And it's because Mara has placed a high value on loyalty, which has gotten in the way of making the best decisions.
The more I think about the following statement from Ralph, I'm a little more hopeful:
"The new GM will have input, and if he (or she) has a better option, the owners will consider it."
Maybe, just maybe, Mara wants to fire Judge but will ONLY do so if one of the potential GMs can sell ownership on the GM's preferred HC.
Sort of like a kid in high school who won't dump his current girlfriend until he has another girl lined up ;>)
Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.
You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).
Quote:
Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.
Enough of this narrative. Those thoughts were brought up - I know I did - because you could NOT rule them out based on Mara's history. And it's because Mara has placed a high value on loyalty, which has gotten in the way of making the best decisions.
Haha, why? Because its true?
The goal posts moved to much yesterday/today on so many threads that its actually a pretty entertaining follow.
Quote:
Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.
Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.
You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).
I am always open to being wrong, and if I am I admit it unlike most on here. However this is my current opinion, and its drawn from managing and hiring a lot of people over my career. Also I think a 1 year audition for Judge is a waste of time, either the GM believes in him or he doesn't. Let him pick the guy he wants to tie his success too. Why hire a new GM at all if you demand he sticks with Judge? Might was well have kept DG for one more year then
Quote:
Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.
Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.
You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).
How much rope does that new GM have? Because you're asking him to blow his first year on the job with a HC he probably doesn't want, and a disaster of a salary cap. That would mean year 2 is his real rebuilding year (assuming mgmt is ready to move on from Judge), so is year 3 a make or break year?
If so, don't be surprised when some of the more prominent candidates say no thanks.
Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.
Saying he wants to approve of the coaching decision does not mean he won’t listen to a convincing argument to make a change.
A new GM that is a leader should be able to be a powerful factor in this decision.
I ll wait and see, up to now Mara has not followed the narrative you describe.
I'd quibble with many saying DG would be back, most assumed he would be allowed to retire, but your points are solid. Yes, a good GM should be able to articulate why Judge should or shouldn't be kept on, I'd just prefer that the GM be given most of the say, with ownership providing their opinion rather than the reverse.
His rambling mess after CHI, his attacks on Shurmur and Rivera and the QB sneak are out there for anyone to see. What competent person can see that behavior and want that nightmare coaching his team? The QB sneak is widely known and universally panned and it should be cause for termination. Mara again is fucking this all up.
Quote:
In comment 15545825 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.
Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.
You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).
How much rope does that new GM have? Because you're asking him to blow his first year on the job with a HC he probably doesn't want, and a disaster of a salary cap. That would mean year 2 is his real rebuilding year (assuming mgmt is ready to move on from Judge), so is year 3 a make or break year?
If so, don't be surprised when some of the more prominent candidates say no thanks.
That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.
I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.
Start bringing in the right talent (draft/trade/FA) and good things will happen.
That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.
I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.
Sure, it is only my take, but also one a prospective GM candidate might think about. You have to at least consider how long the rebuild will take, and how much rope the FO will give you considering they are hamstringing you with a lame duck coach. I would be concerned that the best candidates may decide to try their luck elsewhere.
Of course all of us who are very, very sceptical hope to be wrong, but until proven otherwise it looks like Mara is making a mockery of the cleaning house AGAIN.
We are fucked.
Quote:
That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.
I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.
Sure, it is only my take, but also one a prospective GM candidate might think about. You have to at least consider how long the rebuild will take, and how much rope the FO will give you considering they are hamstringing you with a lame duck coach. I would be concerned that the best candidates may decide to try their luck elsewhere.
But we are loyal above all else, right? Seems to me that under that premise the next GM knows he's got a long runway, no?
Gettelman was here for 4 years and didn't product an OL or QB. The next GM will have plenty of time to show their worth.
Apparently one thing is apparently clear, NO ONE knows for sure but we know for a fact the Giants are interviewing a lot of outside candidates. I have a hard time believing that they are telling each and every one of those candidates you are stuck with the lame duck HC.
We have heard so many different takes from so many different "reputable" sources. They all offer up different takes. So now we're mad again?
YEsterday we heard the opposite.
Apparently one thing is apparently clear, NO ONE knows for sure but we know for a fact the Giants are interviewing a lot of outside candidates. I have a hard time believing that they are telling each and every one of those candidates you are stuck with the lame duck HC.
We have heard so many different takes from so many different "reputable" sources. They all offer up different takes. So now we're mad again?
YEsterday we heard the opposite.
With all due respect this has been your common refrain "we don't know" "let's see" and all of that waiting just almost universally yields poor results. Maybe you can flip it around, realize that patience has not paid off for this fan base and have some understanding towards that position?
Quote:
In comment 15545903 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.
I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.
Sure, it is only my take, but also one a prospective GM candidate might think about. You have to at least consider how long the rebuild will take, and how much rope the FO will give you considering they are hamstringing you with a lame duck coach. I would be concerned that the best candidates may decide to try their luck elsewhere.
But we are loyal above all else, right? Seems to me that under that premise the next GM knows he's got a long runway, no?
Gettelman was here for 4 years and didn't product an OL or QB. The next GM will have plenty of time to show their worth.
The rare but valid points being made here. Suggested the same above.
You all may be completely done and disgusted in Judge, but let a new outside voice that is about to get a good amount of power/responsibility have his heard on the Head Coach topic with Mara.
At worst Judge gets enough rope to hang himself in 2022. And we weren't buying super bowl tickets anyway for next season so...
I would have preferred if they wiped the slate clean completely and let the GM choose his guy after he signed but here we are.
His rambling mess after CHI, his attacks on Shurmur and Rivera and the QB sneak are out there for anyone to see. What competent person can see that behavior and want that nightmare coaching his team? The QB sneak is widely known and universally panned and it should be cause for termination. Mara again is fucking this all up.
This stalling is just to give Mara another opportunity to save his pet project. He's like an investor faced with the bankruptcy of his investment to hope his investment comes around if he just gives it a little more time.
Enough of this narrative. Those thoughts were brought up - I know I did - because you could NOT rule them out based on Mara's history. And it's because Mara has placed a high value on loyalty, which has gotten in the way of making the best decisions.
Haha, why? Because its true?
The goal posts moved to much yesterday/today on so many threads that its actually a pretty entertaining follow.
What's true? That you can't/couldn't rule anything out with Mara?
JonC, a reputable insider on this board, was also taking a cautious tack that you couldn't rule anything out with this ownership. So essentially don't believe it, until you see it.
Perhaps the difference here is that you may be willing to give Mara the benefit of the doubt. Some of us don't. And therein lies this constant tension and distrust.
one being my 82 year old father.
As his last official acts, Mara introduces the new GM and then announces Judge’s fate which is based on what the new GM wants but Mara does the dirty work himself.
If the new GM does not have a new HC in his pocket and some HC candidates are already snapped up, the new GM probably should move forward with Judge.
Imagine you are in a job interview for a job that's going to elevate your career and the person interviewing you is like. Well I saved the other half of my sandwich for you from lunch, I wasn't sure if I wanted it or not and I'm sure you've heard there are some pretty terrible reviews of this sandwich place but I'd like you to try a bite.
You very well might try the sandwich but it is pretty clear that the sandwich is going in the garbage unless you decide to make it not garbage to please the sandwich offeror.
Joe Judge is that Sandwich. And that person was allowed to pick their own sandwich or try the one you left behind, that person is going to order their own sandwich.
And another perhaps as important point is if someone doesn't have your full confidence. If you can't say, I have this great sandwich you should try some! Maybe you should, like a non-coward, just throw the sandwich in the garbage yourself instead of making someone else do it, or eat some for your benefit.
Mara and the final decision, I've got to think the new GM will be listened to and if there's a case to be made, they'll agree to move on from JJ. I don't see much of a case for keeping him besides the new GM deciding "his guy" isn't available at the same time, or they decide it's not the right time to upset the apple cart given the poor cap position in 2022. But, fully expect Mara to not handover the decision (nor will they boot family members, imo).
Imagine you are in a job interview for a job that's going to elevate your career and the person interviewing you is like. Well I saved the other half of my sandwich for you from lunch, I wasn't sure if I wanted it or not and I'm sure you've heard there are some pretty terrible reviews of this sandwich place but I'd like you to try a bite.
You very well might try the sandwich but it is pretty clear that the sandwich is going in the garbage unless you decide to make it not garbage to please the sandwich offeror.
Joe Judge is that Sandwich. And that person was allowed to pick their own sandwich or try the one you left behind, that person is going to order their own sandwich.
And another perhaps as important point is if someone doesn't have your full confidence. If you can't say, I have this great sandwich you should try some! Maybe you should, like a non-coward, just throw the sandwich in the garbage yourself instead of making someone else do it, or eat some for your benefit.
The GM gets a free year of no worries and Ownership saves money.
Imagine if that's the gambit by Mara? Drag out the GM search, drag out the status of Judge, and tell the media along the way you really want the GM to have decision making authority, etc.
But by the time you make the decision on the GM, the candidate pool of HCs is drained, and Judge is retained by default.
The Great Mara Illusion.
The GM gets a free year of no worries and Ownership saves money.
Doesn't this kind of seem like everything that is wrong with the Giants? Retaining an embarrassing candidate who has shown nothing to save a little money?
montana. Too early to pop open a celebratory beer? Haha.