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Ralph V Tweets that Mara will make final decision on Judge

Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/11/2022 11:49 am
"This can change at any point and the Giants owners can do whatever they want since it's their franchise.

But my understanding is they will still make the final call on Joe Judge. The new GM will have input, and if he (or she) has a better option, the owners will consider it."
So as expected  
Josh in the City : 1/11/2022 11:50 am : link
nothing will change.
Clown  
Eli owns all : 1/11/2022 11:50 am : link
Show
RE: So as expected  
Saos1n : 1/11/2022 11:50 am : link
In comment 15545636 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
nothing will change.


Exactly
Ugh  
Essex : 1/11/2022 11:50 am : link
same old story. I guess he won't oversee coaching then
im not sure I fully buy Ralph V  
mphbullet36 : 1/11/2022 11:50 am : link
but this would be no bueno
IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
NoGainDayne : 1/11/2022 11:51 am : link
by drawing this out
This is Vacchiano's opinion  
Sammo85 : 1/11/2022 11:52 am : link
.
Mara: we have Joe Judge  
Essex : 1/11/2022 11:52 am : link
New GM: Yeah, I was hoping for Daboll
Mara: I will consider it

Six hours later: Judge is the coach

Now we have a GM who wanted a different coach with a coach he doesn't want. Unreal

Same old story,
Evaluation will go on  
jeff57 : 1/11/2022 11:52 am : link
At least a few more days and new GM will probably weigh in
Link - ( New Window )
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2022 11:53 am : link
Not sweating this.
So basically nobody knows....  
MOOPS : 1/11/2022 11:54 am : link
WTF is going on. Put whatever spin you want on every piece of information that's flushed out there.
RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
BigBlueShock : 1/11/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15545649 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
by drawing this out

Yep. Mara is going to hire the GM that tells him what he wants to hear regarding Judge, then send out messages via his lapdog beats that it was the GMs decision to keep Judge. It’s all so predictable
But I read here on bbi that Tisch sounded serious this time.  
Mad Mike : 1/11/2022 11:55 am : link
Surely he'll save us, no?
Gee, shocker...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 11:56 am : link
So, great, fire him now so the new GM can pick his coach.

Or, as many of us expect, the new GM will just be a passenger in the next HC search and Mara will swing the final gavel on that, too.

We are getting very close to this:

The more things change, the more they stay the Giants Way...
OMG  
Les in TO : 1/11/2022 11:56 am : link
Mara needs to stick to the non football side of the business - charitable initiatives, ticket sales, corporate partnerships. Leave coaching decisions to the people who know what they’re doing!
RE: But I read here on bbi that Tisch sounded serious this time.  
GFAN52 : 1/11/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15545668 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Surely he'll save us, no?


Tisch soon to make his disappearing act.
Any GM who isn't assured that he can  
Bill in UT : 1/11/2022 11:57 am : link
replace Judge, either immediately, or at the worst after a year, is not someone we want here. And he has to be able to replace scouting and personnel dept, including family. It's really hard to be optimistic.
RE: RE: But I read here on bbi that Tisch sounded serious this time.  
Essex : 1/11/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15545677 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 15545668 Mad Mike said:


Quote:


Surely he'll save us, no?



Tisch soon to make his disappearing act.

I'm sure Hollywood cannot survive with him absent for more than a week.
I doubt there is a franchise in any major sports league  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/11/2022 12:02 pm : link
where the owner is not involved in the hiring of the coach. In most cases, franchises try and have a decision that both the owner and GM support. But the notion that such a decision is completely outsourced to the GM is laughable. But no GM is bringing in a coach that the owner doesn't believe in. Unless they want to put their head on a platter.
Not surprising…  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/11/2022 12:03 pm : link
But still fucking stupid.
RE: RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
NoGainDayne : 1/11/2022 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15545664 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15545649 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


by drawing this out


Yep. Mara is going to hire the GM that tells him what he wants to hear regarding Judge, then send out messages via his lapdog beats that it was the GMs decision to keep Judge. It’s all so predictable


Yeah and the whole "it's the GMs decision thing" with the idea that you are doing the GM a favor by giving him the option to keep Judge is a crock of shit. Maybe, MAYBE that's true if you have a respected coach. But JJ is pretty much the biggest laughing stock I've ever seen keep their job. National laughing stock.

The idea that any GM would want this guy, especially when he got the job before proving anything is mind boggling.

You are correct, the real thing that happens is the person interviewing wants to get the job and they talk themselves into being able to handle Judge for a year in order to tell the owner what they want to get the job.

This is what happens when you have someone running a multi-billion organization that didn't earn their way there. They aren't even aware of how conflict of interest can taint objectivity.

A lot is made of if DG believed in Eli or not or if it was "forced" on him. But to me it's pretty clear that he'd never have gotten the job without validating a lot of what Mara wanted to hear. That's how you get any job. How Mara doesn't understand that this isn't serving him and he has to do something to change it is beyond me.
Kind of why I'm reserving judgement until the end of this process  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2022 12:04 pm : link
Saying "We're not mandating this, but we'd like to keep the coach" to a prospective GM is the same as mandating it to me.
Mara shouldnt even be talking to Judge  
VinegarPeppers : 1/11/2022 12:07 pm : link
...until the GM is in place. Then the GM should make the call.
RE: Kind of why I'm reserving judgement until the end of this process  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15545707 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Saying "We're not mandating this, but we'd like to keep the coach" to a prospective GM is the same as mandating it to me.


100%. The Mara Mandate button has killed this franchise.
This is very concerning if true.  
Section331 : 1/11/2022 12:08 pm : link
I would full expect ownership to be involved in the HC search, but to give themselves the final word is really problematic. Any genuine GM candidate is going to infer that means they will retain Judge. The top candidates are going to have a problem with that.
This is the reason they are requesting so many different interviews  
Mike in NJ : 1/11/2022 12:08 pm : link
for GM. The more people you bring in the more likely you are to find one person willing to work with the worst coach in the league.
I think there'll be a lot of better options than  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2022 12:10 pm : link
JJ.
Does this not  
BigBlueJ : 1/11/2022 12:10 pm : link
mean Judge is gone?
A few things to ponder on  
UberAlias : 1/11/2022 12:10 pm : link
1. Officially, DG “retired”. But truth is no secret
2. There is a big list of GM candidates
3. Every one of them will be asked their opinion of HC situation
4. Who is curiously missing from the GM list? For one, Abrams. And two, anyone from NE.
Ralph says that the owners plural  
shyster : 1/11/2022 12:11 pm : link
will make the decision, not Mara alone.

That isn't splitting hairs because, as has been discussed, a significant issue here is that firing Judge means committing to paying three HCs, past and current, at the same time.

And that money comes out of the Tisches pocket just as much as out of the Maras.

Even if Tisch harbors some desire for a change in organizational approach, the money issue may influence him as well as Mara to prefer to keep Judge.
Everyone needs to settle down  
Sean : 1/11/2022 12:11 pm : link
Feels like some people are moving goal posts. All we heard all year is that Abrams was a lock for GM, or there would be no real search. Some people even thought Gettleman would be returned. I’m encouraged with the GM interview requests thus far.
Quote:
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
The Joe Judge Watch will likely go on for several more days, as I understand it.

He will meet again with ownership, either today or tomorrow. Then the owners will likely let the GM candidates -- and their eventual new GM -- weigh in before making any decision on Judge's future.
RE: A few things to ponder on  
bleedgiantsblue : 1/11/2022 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15545733 UberAlias said:
Quote:
1. Officially, DG “retired”. But truth is no secret
2. There is a big list of GM candidates
3. Every one of them will be asked their opinion of HC situation
4. Who is curiously missing from the GM list? For one, Abrams. And two, anyone from NE.


Great point. Outside of Ossenfort, who has been a name for other jobs, not one other candidate has a tie to Judge.
RE: But I read here on bbi that Tisch sounded serious this time.  
Scooter185 : 1/11/2022 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15545668 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Surely he'll save us, no?


You assume that Tisch hasn't already made his voice heard, which is why Judge's status is currently up in the air.

Mara: I want Judge to stay
Tisch: Let's see what the GM candidates think

Seems like a reasonable conversation between the two owners.
Hopefully Mara gets good advice on Judge from a new GM  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2022 12:17 pm : link
and/or can offer better options. Otherwise is could default to Judge which could be a lesser choice.

But not there with the comments galore that the new GM only gets the job if he goes along. Not saying Mara deserves much benefit of the doubt but playing these insinuation/conspiracy games is getting old on here...
Great  
Joey in VA : 1/11/2022 12:18 pm : link
There goes my optimism. Mara has to butt out after he hires a GM
The Giants wanted to keep this guy  
ghost718 : 1/11/2022 12:19 pm : link
and now after a meltdown for the ages,all you're getting is "It will be up to the next GM".A very convenient thing to say during a GM search.I guess we can't have any more reports about General Managers not wanting to come here and work with Judge.

Image first,football last.
This is nothing new from  
section125 : 1/11/2022 12:19 pm : link
yesterday. Mara hoping they can salvage Judge if GM wants him.

I doubt any GM worth his weight wants him.
RE: Clown  
Rory : 1/11/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15545640 Eli owns all said:
Quote:
Show


Should the owner of the team not make the final decision?
Hopefully, if the owners want to show the new GM  
Simms11 : 1/11/2022 12:21 pm : link
that they fully support him, they will go with whatever recommendation he makes too. Some might want to allow Judge to prove himself to them for a year, which would make ownership happy, I’m sure, fans not so much.
Bwahahahahahaha!  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/11/2022 12:31 pm : link


RE: This is nothing new from  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15545769 section125 said:
Quote:
yesterday. Mara hoping they can salvage Judge if GM wants him.

I doubt any GM worth his weight wants him.


Why burden the new GM with that decision? I don't want the new GM having to deal with that knowing that this was Mara's hire and he's still in the mix. NFW.

Just take Judge out - and his staff, btw, who deserve the time to find jobs because they have careers, too - so the GM has a real clean slate.
RE: This is Vacchiano's opinion  
Jim in Tampa : 1/11/2022 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15545650 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
.

Ralph used the word "understanding" not "opinion". There's a big difference.

Also, I have to laugh at anyone who thought that it was an awesome idea to let the new GM, as his first official act, fire Judge. It's Mara's decision, which means that if he hasn't fired Judge already, he probably won't do it now.
from the outside looking in  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/11/2022 12:36 pm : link
and already knowing that the owners are deciding to keep a head coach makes this one lousy job, and not one that any of the top candidates will want.

Such a shame....freakin Mara, can't see the tree for the forest
RE: from the outside looking in  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/11/2022 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15545809 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
and already knowing that the owners are deciding to keep a head coach makes this one lousy job, and not one that any of the top candidates will want.

Such a shame....freakin Mara, can't see the tree for the forest


uh....can't see the forest for the trees.....
RE: RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
joeinpa : 1/11/2022 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15545664 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15545649 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


by drawing this out


Yep. Mara is going to hire the GM that tells him what he wants to hear regarding Judge, then send out messages via his lapdog beats that it was the GMs decision to keep Judge. It’s all so predictable


Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.

Saying he wants to approve of the coaching decision does not mean he won’t listen to a convincing argument to make a change.

A new GM that is a leader should be able to be a powerful factor in this decision.

I ll wait and see, up to now Mara has not followed the narrative you describe.
So basically we have just limited our GM search to "friends of JJ"  
PatersonPlank : 1/11/2022 12:42 pm : link
Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.
Should be disqualifying for any respectable GM candidate  
Heisenberg : 1/11/2022 12:46 pm : link
..
RE: RE: RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15545824 joeinpa said:
Quote:

Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.



Enough of this narrative. Those thoughts were brought up - I know I did - because you could NOT rule them out based on Mara's history. And it's because Mara has placed a high value on loyalty, which has gotten in the way of making the best decisions.
RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
Jim in Tampa : 1/11/2022 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15545825 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.

The more I think about the following statement from Ralph, I'm a little more hopeful:

"The new GM will have input, and if he (or she) has a better option, the owners will consider it."

Maybe, just maybe, Mara wants to fire Judge but will ONLY do so if one of the potential GMs can sell ownership on the GM's preferred HC.

Sort of like a kid in high school who won't dump his current girlfriend until he has another girl lined up ;>)
RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2022 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15545825 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.


Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).
RE: RE: RE: RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2022 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15545845 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15545824 joeinpa said:


Quote:



Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.





Enough of this narrative. Those thoughts were brought up - I know I did - because you could NOT rule them out based on Mara's history. And it's because Mara has placed a high value on loyalty, which has gotten in the way of making the best decisions.


Haha, why? Because its true?

The goal posts moved to much yesterday/today on so many threads that its actually a pretty entertaining follow.
RE: RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
PatersonPlank : 1/11/2022 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15545858 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15545825 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.



Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).


I am always open to being wrong, and if I am I admit it unlike most on here. However this is my current opinion, and its drawn from managing and hiring a lot of people over my career. Also I think a 1 year audition for Judge is a waste of time, either the GM believes in him or he doesn't. Let him pick the guy he wants to tie his success too. Why hire a new GM at all if you demand he sticks with Judge? Might was well have kept DG for one more year then
RE: RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
Section331 : 1/11/2022 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15545858 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15545825 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.



Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).


How much rope does that new GM have? Because you're asking him to blow his first year on the job with a HC he probably doesn't want, and a disaster of a salary cap. That would mean year 2 is his real rebuilding year (assuming mgmt is ready to move on from Judge), so is year 3 a make or break year?

If so, don't be surprised when some of the more prominent candidates say no thanks.
RE: RE: RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
Section331 : 1/11/2022 1:05 pm : link
In comment 15545824 joeinpa said:
Quote:


Maybe, but it was also stated here Gettleman would be back, then when that didn’t happen it changed to Abrams would be the guy, wrong on both counts.

Saying he wants to approve of the coaching decision does not mean he won’t listen to a convincing argument to make a change.

A new GM that is a leader should be able to be a powerful factor in this decision.

I ll wait and see, up to now Mara has not followed the narrative you describe.


I'd quibble with many saying DG would be back, most assumed he would be allowed to retire, but your points are solid. Yes, a good GM should be able to articulate why Judge should or shouldn't be kept on, I'd just prefer that the GM be given most of the say, with ownership providing their opinion rather than the reverse.
If we're trying to tank next year  
Mike from SI : 1/11/2022 1:08 pm : link
don't we want Judge to be the coach? Otherwise I see no point, as everyone else has said.
This will cost us interviews  
Joey in VA : 1/11/2022 1:09 pm : link
These are talented executives from successful franchises, why would they even consider an interview if they don't get to pick a coach? People will refuse if they have to have Judge foisted on them.

His rambling mess after CHI, his attacks on Shurmur and Rivera and the QB sneak are out there for anyone to see. What competent person can see that behavior and want that nightmare coaching his team? The QB sneak is widely known and universally panned and it should be cause for termination. Mara again is fucking this all up.
RE: RE: RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2022 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15545878 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15545858 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15545825 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Its like the AA support group. There isn't a good GM around who if they even have the slightest desire to remove Judge will take this job.



Are you open to the idea of being wrong? Whichever GM comes here isn't signing a 1 year deal. IF there are strings attached "Judge being here in 2022" that simply means its a 1 year audition for Judge - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

You are already concluding that whoever we hire isn't good (with Judge here).



How much rope does that new GM have? Because you're asking him to blow his first year on the job with a HC he probably doesn't want, and a disaster of a salary cap. That would mean year 2 is his real rebuilding year (assuming mgmt is ready to move on from Judge), so is year 3 a make or break year?

If so, don't be surprised when some of the more prominent candidates say no thanks.


That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.

I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.
Minnesota and Chicago did it right  
PatersonPlank : 1/11/2022 1:12 pm : link
Clean out the GM with the HC, and give the new GM a clean slate to start the build with. The Giants are basically saying you can only touch these things and not those things. This isn't full control in owning your own success. No quality GM will want this, unless of course its a "friend of JJ", which is what I said above. We have limited our search
And Gettelman was fired  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2022 1:13 pm : link
because he got the QB and OL wrong. If the next GM also gets it wrong it won't matter who the HC is.

Start bringing in the right talent (draft/trade/FA) and good things will happen.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
Section331 : 1/11/2022 1:20 pm : link
In comment 15545903 UConn4523 said:
Quote:

That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.

I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.


Sure, it is only my take, but also one a prospective GM candidate might think about. You have to at least consider how long the rebuild will take, and how much rope the FO will give you considering they are hamstringing you with a lame duck coach. I would be concerned that the best candidates may decide to try their luck elsewhere.
Lol  
madeinstars : 1/11/2022 1:20 pm : link
Gettleman is gone and some of you are straight back to defending this clown show of a franchise. How can anybody give the Mara's any sort of benefit of the doubt?

Of course all of us who are very, very sceptical hope to be wrong, but until proven otherwise it looks like Mara is making a mockery of the cleaning house AGAIN.
They are no longer hiding it  
Thegratefulhead : 1/11/2022 1:31 pm : link
The owners are pulling the strings and the GM makes suggesting they may or may not listen to.

We are fucked.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15545930 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15545903 UConn4523 said:


Quote:



That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.

I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.



Sure, it is only my take, but also one a prospective GM candidate might think about. You have to at least consider how long the rebuild will take, and how much rope the FO will give you considering they are hamstringing you with a lame duck coach. I would be concerned that the best candidates may decide to try their luck elsewhere.


But we are loyal above all else, right? Seems to me that under that premise the next GM knows he's got a long runway, no?

Gettelman was here for 4 years and didn't product an OL or QB. The next GM will have plenty of time to show their worth.
my god people  
djm : 1/11/2022 1:33 pm : link
let it play out.

Apparently one thing is apparently clear, NO ONE knows for sure but we know for a fact the Giants are interviewing a lot of outside candidates. I have a hard time believing that they are telling each and every one of those candidates you are stuck with the lame duck HC.

We have heard so many different takes from so many different "reputable" sources. They all offer up different takes. So now we're mad again?

YEsterday we heard the opposite.
Obviously  
madeinstars : 1/11/2022 1:38 pm : link
We have no choice but to let it play out. But things have generally not played out well for this godforsaken team for a decadr now... Letting it play out is not a comforting thought.
RE: my god people  
NoGainDayne : 1/11/2022 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15545965 djm said:
Quote:
let it play out.

Apparently one thing is apparently clear, NO ONE knows for sure but we know for a fact the Giants are interviewing a lot of outside candidates. I have a hard time believing that they are telling each and every one of those candidates you are stuck with the lame duck HC.

We have heard so many different takes from so many different "reputable" sources. They all offer up different takes. So now we're mad again?

YEsterday we heard the opposite.


With all due respect this has been your common refrain "we don't know" "let's see" and all of that waiting just almost universally yields poor results. Maybe you can flip it around, realize that patience has not paid off for this fan base and have some understanding towards that position?
Is it possible  
TXRabbit : 1/11/2022 1:43 pm : link
that the choice for GM has been made and everything else, all the speculation, names, suggestions and predictions are simply a show to make it look like they're "addressing the issue"?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So basically we have just limited our GM search to  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2022 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15545963 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15545930 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 15545903 UConn4523 said:


Quote:



That's just your take on the timeline. Someone doing a good job would, in theory accelerate it. And tying a bad cap year and Judge together isn't really all that bad of a scenario.

I don't think the lame duck approach at HC is ideal, but it isn't the end of the world. And the more important hire is the GM anyway so if we get that part right I have faith that the course will be corrected.



Sure, it is only my take, but also one a prospective GM candidate might think about. You have to at least consider how long the rebuild will take, and how much rope the FO will give you considering they are hamstringing you with a lame duck coach. I would be concerned that the best candidates may decide to try their luck elsewhere.



But we are loyal above all else, right? Seems to me that under that premise the next GM knows he's got a long runway, no?

Gettelman was here for 4 years and didn't product an OL or QB. The next GM will have plenty of time to show their worth.


The rare but valid points being made here. Suggested the same above.

You all may be completely done and disgusted in Judge, but let a new outside voice that is about to get a good amount of power/responsibility have his heard on the Head Coach topic with Mara.

At worst Judge gets enough rope to hang himself in 2022. And we weren't buying super bowl tickets anyway for next season so...
Kind of obvious  
AcesUp : 1/11/2022 1:48 pm : link
when he survived Black Monday. I am sure they will listen to suggestions but they had to show their hand yesterday on where they wanted to go. They'd like Judge back. A GM that wants to make a change will need balls and conviction because he'll be responsible if they move ownership off Judge. I don't see a lot candidates taking that risk when they can just fire him next year.

I would have preferred if they wiped the slate clean completely and let the GM choose his guy after he signed but here we are.
RE: This will cost us interviews  
HomerJones45 : 1/11/2022 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15545901 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
These are talented executives from successful franchises, why would they even consider an interview if they don't get to pick a coach? People will refuse if they have to have Judge foisted on them.

His rambling mess after CHI, his attacks on Shurmur and Rivera and the QB sneak are out there for anyone to see. What competent person can see that behavior and want that nightmare coaching his team? The QB sneak is widely known and universally panned and it should be cause for termination. Mara again is fucking this all up.
+1.
This stalling is just to give Mara another opportunity to save his pet project. He's like an investor faced with the bankruptcy of his investment to hope his investment comes around if he just gives it a little more time.
It doesn't sound to me  
UberAlias : 1/11/2022 1:53 pm : link
like Judge is being forced on the candidates.
GM candidates  
UberAlias : 1/11/2022 1:54 pm : link
are going to provide a plan.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: IMO it's about money but he's hoping to dissipate the anger  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15545862 UConn4523 said:
Quote:


Enough of this narrative. Those thoughts were brought up - I know I did - because you could NOT rule them out based on Mara's history. And it's because Mara has placed a high value on loyalty, which has gotten in the way of making the best decisions.



Haha, why? Because its true?

The goal posts moved to much yesterday/today on so many threads that its actually a pretty entertaining follow.


What's true? That you can't/couldn't rule anything out with Mara?

JonC, a reputable insider on this board, was also taking a cautious tack that you couldn't rule anything out with this ownership. So essentially don't believe it, until you see it.

Perhaps the difference here is that you may be willing to give Mara the benefit of the doubt. Some of us don't. And therein lies this constant tension and distrust.
The number of owners  
UberAlias : 1/11/2022 1:57 pm : link
who are going to say, pick whoever you want, I don't care who coaches my team is likely zero. Jacksonville HC just embarrassed himself and guys like Harbaaugh or Rex Ryan probably not options for this team.
RE: I think there'll be a lot of better options than  
Jints in Carolina : 1/11/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15545730 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
JJ.


one being my 82 year old father.
With DG gone, and no candidates in the building (including Abrams)  
Ivan15 : 1/11/2022 2:17 pm : link
I have changed my view of the way this should play out. Here is what should happen.

As his last official acts, Mara introduces the new GM and then announces Judge’s fate which is based on what the new GM wants but Mara does the dirty work himself.

If the new GM does not have a new HC in his pocket and some HC candidates are already snapped up, the new GM probably should move forward with Judge.
The problem with this logic of  
NoGainDayne : 1/11/2022 2:19 pm : link
let a GM decide is the option of something isn't always good. That's a fallacy. Yes good options are always excellent.

Imagine you are in a job interview for a job that's going to elevate your career and the person interviewing you is like. Well I saved the other half of my sandwich for you from lunch, I wasn't sure if I wanted it or not and I'm sure you've heard there are some pretty terrible reviews of this sandwich place but I'd like you to try a bite.

You very well might try the sandwich but it is pretty clear that the sandwich is going in the garbage unless you decide to make it not garbage to please the sandwich offeror.

Joe Judge is that Sandwich. And that person was allowed to pick their own sandwich or try the one you left behind, that person is going to order their own sandwich.

And another perhaps as important point is if someone doesn't have your full confidence. If you can't say, I have this great sandwich you should try some! Maybe you should, like a non-coward, just throw the sandwich in the garbage yourself instead of making someone else do it, or eat some for your benefit.


I'll believe it when it's done  
JonC : 1/11/2022 2:37 pm : link
If there were any goalposts moving yesterday, it had more to do with the sequence of news coming out and the forum reactions, eg, Josina's info in the morning was incomplete but fans ran with it until more of the regular began to get their info out there that painted a more accurate picture. Fan reaction and the F5 buttons riding the same wavelength in excitement and all that.

Mara and the final decision, I've got to think the new GM will be listened to and if there's a case to be made, they'll agree to move on from JJ. I don't see much of a case for keeping him besides the new GM deciding "his guy" isn't available at the same time, or they decide it's not the right time to upset the apple cart given the poor cap position in 2022. But, fully expect Mara to not handover the decision (nor will they boot family members, imo).
... until more of the regular BEAT began  
JonC : 1/11/2022 2:38 pm : link
...
RE: The problem with this logic of  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2022 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15546076 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
let a GM decide is the option of something isn't always good. That's a fallacy. Yes good options are always excellent.

Imagine you are in a job interview for a job that's going to elevate your career and the person interviewing you is like. Well I saved the other half of my sandwich for you from lunch, I wasn't sure if I wanted it or not and I'm sure you've heard there are some pretty terrible reviews of this sandwich place but I'd like you to try a bite.

You very well might try the sandwich but it is pretty clear that the sandwich is going in the garbage unless you decide to make it not garbage to please the sandwich offeror.

Joe Judge is that Sandwich. And that person was allowed to pick their own sandwich or try the one you left behind, that person is going to order their own sandwich.

And another perhaps as important point is if someone doesn't have your full confidence. If you can't say, I have this great sandwich you should try some! Maybe you should, like a non-coward, just throw the sandwich in the garbage yourself instead of making someone else do it, or eat some for your benefit.




Problem I see is that TElonger the GM search goes on,  
Simms11 : 1/11/2022 3:14 pm : link
there may not be the right HC candidates left
Mara is going to ask the GM to take next year and evaluate the team  
montanagiant : 1/11/2022 3:18 pm : link
At that point, Schurmer's contract is gone and they can fire Judge and only have to pay for two HC salaries.

The GM gets a free year of no worries and Ownership saves money.
RE: Problem I see is that TElonger the GM search goes on,  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15546165 Simms11 said:
Quote:
there may not be the right HC candidates left


Imagine if that's the gambit by Mara? Drag out the GM search, drag out the status of Judge, and tell the media along the way you really want the GM to have decision making authority, etc.

But by the time you make the decision on the GM, the candidate pool of HCs is drained, and Judge is retained by default.

The Great Mara Illusion.
RE: Mara is going to ask the GM to take next year and evaluate the team  
NoGainDayne : 1/11/2022 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15546172 montanagiant said:
Quote:
At that point, Schurmer's contract is gone and they can fire Judge and only have to pay for two HC salaries.

The GM gets a free year of no worries and Ownership saves money.


Doesn't this kind of seem like everything that is wrong with the Giants? Retaining an embarrassing candidate who has shown nothing to save a little money?
LMAO  
montanagiant : 1/11/2022 6:34 pm : link
I couldn't have been more wrong. Very proud that ownership had the balls to do this. Tells me more than anything they're committed to righting this ship
RE: LMAO  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2022 6:35 pm : link
In comment 15547004 montanagiant said:
Quote:
I couldn't have been more wrong. Very proud that ownership had the balls to do this. Tells me more than anything they're committed to righting this ship


montana. Too early to pop open a celebratory beer? Haha.
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