any of these outside guys are gonna hitch their wagon to Judge? Because the Giants org is too much of a pussy to fire him themselves? Because of the 1% chance that a GM, who is taking their first job as the head guy, is going to want to keep Judge? If they wanted him that fucking bad, he's sure to be available next week for the new GM to rehire lol.
Mara and co are playing chess.What's the best way to have Mara
Judge is giving input on which GMs he can work with? Yeah I would love to provide input on what I am looking for in a boss, but unfortunately that just isn't how it works in a strong organization.
Also, the interviewing GMs needs to sell ownership on why they should replace Judge? Isn't it fucking obvious at this point? Hire the best man for the GM job and give him the authority to make the move. Saddling a GM with this loser of a coach makes no sense. At least make the clown interview for his job again, after what we have watched for the last 2 years, he shouldn't be just given anything.
Assuming Ralph is correct, the new GM theoretically can fire Judge, but it sounds like they won't seriously consider any GM candidates who want to do so. Ralph also said they've asked Judge for input on the new GM. Why would they do that if they wanted to give the new GM total authority about whether Judge should be fired? Other reports also indicate that the Maras will make the final decision about whether to do so. It sounds like they've already made their decision.
Mara MAY decide his fate. Now he's saying Judge is in limbo.
You guys see where I am going with this.
Here's the thing, if Mara truly was going to let the new GM decide Judge's fate, he's not going to just come and say that the new GM will truly decide this guy's fate. Why? BEcause we cannot handle news like that. The media and fan base would turn that into a shit show of daily shit show stirring. So instead, we get innuendo and rumor and maybe some true leaks or whispers.
All signs point to Mara letting the new GM dictate things.
Judge is giving input on which GMs he can work with? Yeah I would love to provide input on what I am looking for in a boss, but unfortunately that just isn't how it works in a strong organization.
Also, the interviewing GMs needs to sell ownership on why they should replace Judge? Isn't it fucking obvious at this point? Hire the best man for the GM job and give him the authority to make the move. Saddling a GM with this loser of a coach makes no sense. At least make the clown interview for his job again, after what we have watched for the last 2 years, he shouldn't be just given anything.
Assuming Ralph is correct, the new GM theoretically can fire Judge, but it sounds like they won't seriously consider any GM candidates who want to do so. Ralph also said they've asked Judge for input on the new GM. Why would they do that if they wanted to give the new GM total authority about whether Judge should be fired? Other reports also indicate that the Maras will make the final decision about whether to do so. It sounds like they've already made their decision.
Not sure where you got this from that they won't consider anyone who wants to fire Judge.
Why would they be interviewing 10 GMs if they want to force Judge on them? Word would leak. Fans would learn the truth and interviewing 10 people like that would be a huge waste of time since not one of them likely wants to keep Judge.
in Judge, if Judge is kept the New GM is going to start his tenure with 0 credibility to the fanbase. No GM will be able to say with a straight face they think Judge is the right man to go with for next season . Any chance to give fans some optimism or hope will be gone
Mara couldn't handle this any worse. Incompetent, indecisive, complete clown show of an organization
Assuming Ralph is correct, the new GM theoretically can fire Judge, but it sounds like they won't seriously consider any GM candidates who want to do so. Ralph also said they've asked Judge for input on the new GM. Why would they do that if they wanted to give the new GM total authority about whether Judge should be fired? Other reports also indicate that the Maras will make the final decision about whether to do so. It sounds like they've already made their decision.
Not sure where you got this from that they won't consider anyone who wants to fire Judge.
Why would they be interviewing 10 GMs if they want to force Judge on them? Word would leak. Fans would learn the truth and interviewing 10 people like that would be a huge waste of time since not one of them likely wants to keep Judge.
Maybe they have to interview a lot of candidates because so many don't want to keep Judge. If that's the case, then they will need to interview a lot just to find one or two who will. Also, why are the asking Judge for his opinion about who they should hire for GM if they are going to fire him?
At a minimum, it seems clear the Maras would prefer to keep Judge, if only because they haven't fired him yet, despite his atrocious record. I agree that the new GM could theoretically convince them otherwise, especially if he wows them during the interview for other reasons. But although I certainly hope I'm wrong, that just seems unlikely.
This shouldn't even be an issue because Judge should have already been fired. The new GM shouldn't have to do so. What new GM wants to do that?
people think. Judge has three years left at 5mill/year. He may take a year off and probably the best he can do is a ST coordinator if that. So your looking at paying out 13+ million just for him and then all the staff changes plus your new staff.
I know everyone says they are swimming in money but there are 11 Mara's and there have been a lot of extra payments the last few years with all the firings/new staff. Then the big offseason spending, pandemic, etc. Perhaps some complaining going on.
Slow play it like he did every game. Ignore him like he ignored the offense. Put him to sleep like he did to every Giants fan. Then let him have a miserable 5 months, like every Giants fan did this year. Don’t even fire him, make him clean up the stadiums after games.
A would be GM can say, I want to move on from Judge and the owners can say, that's nice but no.
Is that really that much of the attractive job some make it out to be? Yes it's a flagship franchise that you get a chance to turnaround, but you're walking in immediately stuck with a coach you didn't pick and don't want.
people think. Judge has three years left at 5mill/year. He may take a year off and probably the best he can do is a ST coordinator if that. So your looking at paying out 13+ million just for him and then all the staff changes plus your new staff.
I know everyone says they are swimming in money but there are 11 Mara's and there have been a lot of extra payments the last few years with all the firings/new staff. Then the big offseason spending, pandemic, etc. Perhaps some complaining going on.
people think. Judge has three years left at 5mill/year. He may take a year off and probably the best he can do is a ST coordinator if that. So your looking at paying out 13+ million just for him and then all the staff changes plus your new staff.
I know everyone says they are swimming in money but there are 11 Mara's and there have been a lot of extra payments the last few years with all the firings/new staff. Then the big offseason spending, pandemic, etc. Perhaps some complaining going on.
Well, that was the risk in signing a HC who had never been a HC at anything in his life. But that should NOT be the reason to keep Judge - his contract.
is still going to get fired. Maybe some GM candidate comes in and demands it and still somehow gets hired, but that seems unlikely. Especially if they have been talking to some of these candidates for extended amount of time, it’s not even long ago that Mara was publicly supporting Judge moving forward. So if they were talking to anyone previously I’m sure it was addressed back then. It sucks and seems like more of a PR stunt to pretend Mara was close to firing him. I hope I’m wrong of course, Judge is the worst I’ve ever seen here.
Ralph Vacchiano
✔
@RVacchianoSNY
The Giants will begin virtual GM interviews on Wednesday morning when the owners speak with Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen.
That doesn't necessarily make him the favorite, though he still might be. As we saw in the last head coaching search, expect the unexpected.
Judge is giving input on which GMs he can work with? Yeah I would love to provide input on what I am looking for in a boss, but unfortunately that just isn't how it works in a strong organization.
My team at work was given the chance to interview candidates for our supervisor. We had (and have) a really strong, well-functioning team what was being held back by bad management. We didn't get to make the decision, but we got to meet the candidates, they got to meet us, and we had some input. That was a nice gesture by our senior management.
That went ok, but not great, by the way. They didn't hire the person we liked best, and then we went through two people in that role before changing the role and going back to our original second choice. (He's turned out to be fantastic, by the way. We should have hired him the first time.)
It's very hard to gauge people in an interview. Some people are great in interviews and not so great in the job. (Like Joe Judge?) Some are not so great in interviews but are terrific at their jobs. Not so easy to know that in advance.
Mara needs to be convinced that the new GM will have a better option than;
- the 10-23 current head coach who quit on his team?
- the current buffoon who actually thinks he's being more aggressive by punting than by going for it on 4th down in enemy territory?
- the current HC who unleashed his new state of the art "Double Sneak" offense on the unsuspecting WFT?
Mara wants to be sure that he has a GM and coach that can work together. Hey John, you complete imbecile...let the GM hire his own coach - problem solved!
that was a disheartening 2 minutes and 23 seconds to listen to.
The spell Judge has over this clown show is incredulous. You would think he's 23-10 with back-to-back playoff appearances.
Yep. Jawn doesn't want to admit he fucked up royally and signed an unqualified individual for 5 years and $15 million. He has sold himself on the delusion that all his bankrupt investment needs is more time to pay off.
that was a disheartening 2 minutes and 23 seconds to listen to.
The spell Judge has over this clown show is incredulous. You would think he's 23-10 with back-to-back playoff appearances.
Yep. Jawn doesn't want to admit he fucked up royally and signed an unqualified individual for 5 years and $15 million. He has sold himself on the delusion that all his bankrupt investment needs is more time to pay off.
that Judge is having any say or influence in the GM process.
He hasn't earned it and doesn't deserve that to begin with.
As it stands being a simple head coach in charge of on field product has shown he is in over his head and not up to task.
His behavior the last two months also add fuel to that fire.
And we're to believe that he has any say with owners in whom GM should be and that he can work with?
He should be hoping he doesn't get fired next week (while he might get a payout for couple years), he'll be lucky to ever sniff another HC job. Heck, he might have a hard time getting a ST coordinator job with Chase Blackburn out on the market now himself.
If the new GM just considers 2022 to be a Gettleman Hangover Year - complete waste, just flush all the Gettleman toxins out of the system.
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
After we flush all the crap in 22 we have a clean slate in 23. They can't come out and say that, but it would be fine if they actually did it
If the new GM just considers 2022 to be a Gettleman Hangover Year - complete waste, just flush all the Gettleman toxins out of the system.
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
After we flush all the crap in 22 we have a clean slate in 23. They can't come out and say that, but it would be fine if they actually did it
If the new GM just considers 2022 to be a Gettleman Hangover Year - complete waste, just flush all the Gettleman toxins out of the system.
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
After we flush all the crap in 22 we have a clean slate in 23. They can't come out and say that, but it would be fine if they actually did it
This is actually what we should be doing. Complete tear down. Use next year to eat all the dead money. Trade who they can. If they win some games, great.
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
In these stressful times of Covid, political divisions, inflation, etc, it's really unfair and inhumane to expect supporters to endure another year of Jones and Judge.
2022 will be a losing year, but it doesn't have to be unproductive
They are on the hook for Schurmer's, Judge's and the new HC's salaries plus all whatever previous asst coaches are under contract from the previous regimes.
Now Schumer's is offset some by his OC job but you are still looking at a ton of money being spent for no value
would have to explain why? Do the owners not watch games, team press conferences or the national sports news?
Your coach is a national laughingstock who is known only for insulting other teams, not knowing how to use timeouts, and ultimately quitting. You have to be sold on letting him go?
In all actuality keeping Judge at the Mara requests
Is not that bad an option for a new GM.
The GM gets a free season to truly evaluate and dissect the team before making any big decisions. It's like he gets a mulligan his first year.
IMO, this whole "we're going to take time to get a GM and then look at what to do with Judge" is a smokescreen to buy cover with the media and salve the fans somewhat. They keep Judge, GM decides what direction to go at the end of the season. Schumer's payout of his contract comes off the books and some of the asst's from his regime and possibly Garret's cost and it is then all on the GM in what direction to go.
Or maybe they told Judge, "Joe, how do you keep an idiot in suspense? We'll tell you in a couple of weeks."
:-)
Have that new GM fire Joe Judge.
Also, the interviewing GMs needs to sell ownership on why they should replace Judge? Isn't it fucking obvious at this point? Hire the best man for the GM job and give him the authority to make the move. Saddling a GM with this loser of a coach makes no sense. At least make the clown interview for his job again, after what we have watched for the last 2 years, he shouldn't be just given anything.
You guys see where I am going with this.
Here's the thing, if Mara truly was going to let the new GM decide Judge's fate, he's not going to just come and say that the new GM will truly decide this guy's fate. Why? BEcause we cannot handle news like that. The media and fan base would turn that into a shit show of daily shit show stirring. So instead, we get innuendo and rumor and maybe some true leaks or whispers.
All signs point to Mara letting the new GM dictate things.
Also, the interviewing GMs needs to sell ownership on why they should replace Judge? Isn't it fucking obvious at this point? Hire the best man for the GM job and give him the authority to make the move. Saddling a GM with this loser of a coach makes no sense. At least make the clown interview for his job again, after what we have watched for the last 2 years, he shouldn't be just given anything.
+1.
On the other hand how is it much different than what Jerry Jones did with Garrett a few years ago?
The spell Judge has over this clown show is incredulous. You would think he's 23-10 with back-to-back playoff appearances.
Not sure where you got this from that they won't consider anyone who wants to fire Judge.
Why would they be interviewing 10 GMs if they want to force Judge on them? Word would leak. Fans would learn the truth and interviewing 10 people like that would be a huge waste of time since not one of them likely wants to keep Judge.
Good Lord.
Have that new GM fire Joe Judge.
It certainly allows the narrative to move from he has a hand in too much to letting a football guy make decisions
Mara couldn't handle this any worse. Incompetent, indecisive, complete clown show of an organization
That's a damn good, plausible theory.
I think he's lost his sources last few years. His info has been bad.
Quote:
Assuming Ralph is correct, the new GM theoretically can fire Judge, but it sounds like they won't seriously consider any GM candidates who want to do so. Ralph also said they've asked Judge for input on the new GM. Why would they do that if they wanted to give the new GM total authority about whether Judge should be fired? Other reports also indicate that the Maras will make the final decision about whether to do so. It sounds like they've already made their decision.
Not sure where you got this from that they won't consider anyone who wants to fire Judge.
Why would they be interviewing 10 GMs if they want to force Judge on them? Word would leak. Fans would learn the truth and interviewing 10 people like that would be a huge waste of time since not one of them likely wants to keep Judge.
Maybe they have to interview a lot of candidates because so many don't want to keep Judge. If that's the case, then they will need to interview a lot just to find one or two who will. Also, why are the asking Judge for his opinion about who they should hire for GM if they are going to fire him?
At a minimum, it seems clear the Maras would prefer to keep Judge, if only because they haven't fired him yet, despite his atrocious record. I agree that the new GM could theoretically convince them otherwise, especially if he wows them during the interview for other reasons. But although I certainly hope I'm wrong, that just seems unlikely.
This shouldn't even be an issue because Judge should have already been fired. The new GM shouldn't have to do so. What new GM wants to do that?
I know everyone says they are swimming in money but there are 11 Mara's and there have been a lot of extra payments the last few years with all the firings/new staff. Then the big offseason spending, pandemic, etc. Perhaps some complaining going on.
Is that really that much of the attractive job some make it out to be? Yes it's a flagship franchise that you get a chance to turnaround, but you're walking in immediately stuck with a coach you didn't pick and don't want.
I know everyone says they are swimming in money but there are 11 Mara's and there have been a lot of extra payments the last few years with all the firings/new staff. Then the big offseason spending, pandemic, etc. Perhaps some complaining going on.
I know everyone says they are swimming in money but there are 11 Mara's and there have been a lot of extra payments the last few years with all the firings/new staff. Then the big offseason spending, pandemic, etc. Perhaps some complaining going on.
Well, that was the risk in signing a HC who had never been a HC at anything in his life. But that should NOT be the reason to keep Judge - his contract.
Take the hit and move on.
✔
@RVacchianoSNY
The Giants will begin virtual GM interviews on Wednesday morning when the owners speak with Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen.
That doesn't necessarily make him the favorite, though he still might be. As we saw in the last head coaching search, expect the unexpected.
I think he's lost his sources last few years. His info has been bad.
You shouldn't. The guy literally speculated (but didn't call it speculation) two different potential outcomes within the last 4 hrs.
That went ok, but not great, by the way. They didn't hire the person we liked best, and then we went through two people in that role before changing the role and going back to our original second choice. (He's turned out to be fantastic, by the way. We should have hired him the first time.)
It's very hard to gauge people in an interview. Some people are great in interviews and not so great in the job. (Like Joe Judge?) Some are not so great in interviews but are terrific at their jobs. Not so easy to know that in advance.
- the 10-23 current head coach who quit on his team?
- the current buffoon who actually thinks he's being more aggressive by punting than by going for it on 4th down in enemy territory?
- the current HC who unleashed his new state of the art "Double Sneak" offense on the unsuspecting WFT?
Mara wants to be sure that he has a GM and coach that can work together. Hey John, you complete imbecile...let the GM hire his own coach - problem solved!
The spell Judge has over this clown show is incredulous. You would think he's 23-10 with back-to-back playoff appearances.
Quote:
that was a disheartening 2 minutes and 23 seconds to listen to.
The spell Judge has over this clown show is incredulous. You would think he's 23-10 with back-to-back playoff appearances.
Yep. Jawn doesn't want to admit he fucked up royally and signed an unqualified individual for 5 years and $15 million. He has sold himself on the delusion that all his bankrupt investment needs is more time to pay off.
He hasn't earned it and doesn't deserve that to begin with.
As it stands being a simple head coach in charge of on field product has shown he is in over his head and not up to task.
His behavior the last two months also add fuel to that fire.
And we're to believe that he has any say with owners in whom GM should be and that he can work with?
He should be hoping he doesn't get fired next week (while he might get a payout for couple years), he'll be lucky to ever sniff another HC job. Heck, he might have a hard time getting a ST coordinator job with Chase Blackburn out on the market now himself.
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
After we flush all the crap in 22 we have a clean slate in 23. They can't come out and say that, but it would be fine if they actually did it
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
After we flush all the crap in 22 we have a clean slate in 23. They can't come out and say that, but it would be fine if they actually did it
Flushing the Gettleman toxins would include Jones
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
After we flush all the crap in 22 we have a clean slate in 23. They can't come out and say that, but it would be fine if they actually did it
This is actually what we should be doing. Complete tear down. Use next year to eat all the dead money. Trade who they can. If they win some games, great.
We cut a bunch of guys, run back Jones and Judge, and basically tank the year. It would be brutal to watch, but who cares at this point. Few of these players are going to help us win anyway.
In these stressful times of Covid, political divisions, inflation, etc, it's really unfair and inhumane to expect supporters to endure another year of Jones and Judge.
That's true. Production could also be considered acquiring draft capital, shedding contracts, etc.
He's a laughing stock, and so is Freddie
Now Schumer's is offset some by his OC job but you are still looking at a ton of money being spent for no value
Your coach is a national laughingstock who is known only for insulting other teams, not knowing how to use timeouts, and ultimately quitting. You have to be sold on letting him go?
The GM gets a free season to truly evaluate and dissect the team before making any big decisions. It's like he gets a mulligan his first year.
IMO, this whole "we're going to take time to get a GM and then look at what to do with Judge" is a smokescreen to buy cover with the media and salve the fans somewhat. They keep Judge, GM decides what direction to go at the end of the season. Schumer's payout of his contract comes off the books and some of the asst's from his regime and possibly Garret's cost and it is then all on the GM in what direction to go.
Link - ( New Window )
LMAO...I feel like Anak during the SB "WTF is Tyree doing out there".
I truly am impressed with Ownership making this decision
Jeff make a new thread and get pinned