He didn’t learn bills first rule answer questions as briefly as possible he literally ran his mouth more on one question than Belichick has in the entire history of his career put together
RE: RE: RE: Joe Judge may very well get another HC job
But it won't be anytime soon. He's young, he's an expert bullshitter and he knows the right things to say.
He's not our problem anymore
No chance. He killed that the last month and a half and especially the last few weeks. He wasn't even a strong candidate to begin with. He was a rogue hire because he talked tough and told people what they want to hear in an interview, but didn't know how to achieve any of it.
Even now, I'd argue he's worsened as a coach because of this tenure. He needs a few years of rehab down at the college level as an assistant and maybe he can get a Division II job somewhere.
I don't think Belichick would even take him right now. He's got some radioactivity to him.
What part of Belichick or saban makes you think he cares about whether a coach is liked or not in the media?
Steve Sarkesian was fired for being a drunk on the job as a head football coach and Saban rehabbed his career and got him another HC job.
In the eyes of guys like Belichick and Saban, Judge was fired for a much worse reason - for sucking.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Joe Judge may very well get another HC job
But it won't be anytime soon. He's young, he's an expert bullshitter and he knows the right things to say.
He's not our problem anymore
No chance. He killed that the last month and a half and especially the last few weeks. He wasn't even a strong candidate to begin with. He was a rogue hire because he talked tough and told people what they want to hear in an interview, but didn't know how to achieve any of it.
Even now, I'd argue he's worsened as a coach because of this tenure. He needs a few years of rehab down at the college level as an assistant and maybe he can get a Division II job somewhere.
I don't think Belichick would even take him right now. He's got some radioactivity to him.
What part of Belichick or saban makes you think he cares about whether a coach is liked or not in the media?
Steve Sarkesian was fired for being a drunk on the job as a head football coach and Saban rehabbed his career and got him another HC job.
In the eyes of guys like Belichick and Saban, Judge was fired for a much worse reason - for sucking.
He did the same for Lane Kiffin, another notorious loser until the Saban Jedi Training.
The key for me was that I truly believe there were three + games that he put us at significantly worse odds to win. Sure he was dealt a tough season with injuries and limited talent, but a good coach shouldn’t cost you a few games.
Hope he learns, has success in college, and get back to the NFL one day.
I really like him and his enthusiasm. He just wasn't ready for prime-time. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Spags.
He ran into a perfect storm of ineptness starting in the Front Office (a GM who had lost his "mojo"), a nervous Nelly owner, incompetent coaching staff (and not-to-mention a ton of injuries).
So, instead of a John-Paul-Jones "hell with the torpedos, full speed ahead", he retreated into "let's just not lose"mentality - THAT is what (despite the players' loyalty, destroyed their belief they could win).
I just hope the next GM-combo doesn't take a wrecking ball to the place, the cupboard's not bare.
He had a major say in all personnel decisions. Almost his entire coaching staff was hand-picked by him, mostly SEC coaches.
But yeah, he's the victim here.
+1
Last year the lack of accountability for EEngram left me concerned about both how genuine JJ’s tough disciplinarian talk was and also his ability to assess football talent. The timeout issues, unforced penalties, and overly cautious in-game decisions also left me concerned about his strategic sense and organization skills. After Seattle, I chalked it up to 1st year young coach issues, COVID affecting training and a bad backup QB situation.. It only grew worse this year — and that was to start the season when most everything he wanted was in place, Wasn’t a confidence builder. What transpired the last 6 weeks and the 79-0 at the half was just about the worst I’ve ever seen. Utterly indefensible. His deflection, lobbying and obvious spin was a bad look — and maybe revealed a bit of his true character. The fact there was even a chance of him coming back had me reassessing any belief in ownership’s competence.
With DG/JJ going and if the Giants hire a GM from a successful outside Org with a revamp of personnel/scouting, then maybe this is a true reset with ownership/family stepping out of personnel and football operations. It would provide a real chance for a turnaround. If so, then we can at least feel good that the owners are capable of substantial and meaningful change. I’m interested to see how this plays out.
..that would severely handicap any rookie head coach. That’s not to excuse his significant mistakes and failings. But given the circumstances, in a vacuum it wouldn’t be crazy to give him another year. Some coaches who went on to great careers had bad starts in better circumstances.
But you can’t saddle a new GM with Judge. Any GM worth his salt wants a clean slate. Many would be accepting of an incumbent HC who was well regarded, but that’s obviously not the case. Judge isn’t owed anything beyond his salary, and team had to make this move to get the best GM they can.
I am 100% confident he would still have a job if he didn't
1) Throw other coaches under the bus
2) QB sneak in victory formation twice in a row
There were a number of other things I personally would have fired him for. But IMO he would still have his job were it not for these two things. He could have had a 10:30 rant that just omitted the part where he broke unwritten football rules and he'd still have a job.
He had tough circumstances. He made them harder on himself. That's why he doesn't have a job.
Some people I'm sad to see leave the front office of my team. Most I'm fairly neutral towards as I wish them the best but do not want them associated with the teams I root for.
There are only 3 people ever for teams that I've rooted for that I was more than happy to see go:
1) DG
2) JJ
3) Isiah Thomas
That's the list. And the fact that the Giants employed two of the most unsuccessful yet arrogant SOBs I've ever seen as team leaders of any franchise is a bit terrifying TBH. But I'm trying to be hopeful that they want to fix this.
I can understand getting your hopes up for JJ, not as much DG lol. But he was such a fraud, I don't understand any pity for the guy. Him calling after being fired to check if he was missed? I guess? is just so in line with everything that was wrong with him. I am fairly confident I'll never again see such an insecure person as a leader of a team, ever again.
But I think Joe Judge will be a Head Coach again and will succeed. It’s going out on a limb, but I did see some positives to go along with his passion, or gift of gab.
1. He chose the right Defensive Coordinater
2. The team played hard for him all of last year
3. Watching his weekly YouTube show, you could see how detail oriented he was and was very clear in his teaching.
I think he was torpedoed by a few things.
1. Gentleman and this atrocity of a roster
2. Garrett and his archaic offense
Mara said he’s a young coach who will need time to succeed. His game management should have been further along in year 2. That’s my biggest issue…. The immaturity shown with the press these final 6 weeks was him buckling under the immense pressure of a crumbling franchise.
With all of that being said this had to happen in order to get all facets of the organization on the same page. Unfortunately Judge was working with the biggest dopes in football.
Judge was over his head. If you can't see it...
When you get sent out in the Atlantic ocean in a row boat, it's easy to look "in over your head."
Judge has many things to work on, clearly (e.g. time mgt, more aggressive offensive approach, better use of the pre-season, etc), but he was hired as a 38 year old HC and the owner stated that they needed to show patience with him. They paired him with THE WORST GM in the NFL, and 10 years worth of bad decisions. They "encouraged" Judge to hire Garrett as his OC. This is an organizational failure and it consumed a young coach that had some potential.
+100
The Giant Insider podcast on this is a must listen and it's free.
One thing I’m glad about is that the Mara’s and Giants FO as a whole clearly care about their reputation/perception among the fans. The Giants becoming a national joke thanks to Judge and the “fan confidence rating” in the organization at a 40 year low, the Maras felt the pressure and made the move that needed to be made.
Getting a new GM from outside the organization is the most important thing. Hopefully that leads to a HC that finally delivers after 3 straight losers leading the team.
I am 100% confident he would still have a job if he didn't
1) Throw other coaches under the bus
2) QB sneak in victory formation twice in a row
There were a number of other things I personally would have fired him for. But IMO he would still have his job were it not for these two things. He could have had a 10:30 rant that just omitted the part where he broke unwritten football rules and he'd still have a job.
He had tough circumstances. He made them harder on himself. That's why he doesn't have a job.
Some people I'm sad to see leave the front office of my team. Most I'm fairly neutral towards as I wish them the best but do not want them associated with the teams I root for.
There are only 3 people ever for teams that I've rooted for that I was more than happy to see go:
1) DG
2) JJ
3) Isiah Thomas
That's the list. And the fact that the Giants employed two of the most unsuccessful yet arrogant SOBs I've ever seen as team leaders of any franchise is a bit terrifying TBH. But I'm trying to be hopeful that they want to fix this.
I can understand getting your hopes up for JJ, not as much DG lol. But he was such a fraud, I don't understand any pity for the guy. Him calling after being fired to check if he was missed? I guess? is just so in line with everything that was wrong with him. I am fairly confident I'll never again see such an insecure person as a leader of a team, ever again.
This is a long shot but the rumors yesterday were that Shoun and the Giants have had offline discussions since November. With a request by the fins to interview Daboll, could this be Shoen asking the Giants to fire Judge to confirm to Daboll he is the choice for HC?
It sounds like he demanded heavy personnel influence for next season.
I was living in the SF Bay Area for Hue Jackson's one season as Raiders' HC.
Raiders got off to a 7-4 start and HJ was in his glory. Then they lost 4 of their last 5, including a Week 17 home loss that knocked them out of a playoff spot.
HJ gave a meltdown post-game PC, saying how sick he was at the result, and how he wouldn't be feeling that way at this time next season because he would be taking control of personnel decisions.
I thought: that is really not a wise thing to say.
He was fired shortly afterwards and it took five years for him to get another HC shot with the Browns.
tear the band-aid off. The easy half is now done. The tough half is getting the family out of football ops. If that doesn't happen, the easy half was probably meaningless.
official or coach. I have criticized coaches and executives but it's never been personal until Judge. He is just a jerk and completely disingenuous, constantly pushing off the blame on players an subordinates instead of accepting responsibility and fixing it. Good riddance to him.
If there had not bee a fan revolt, had we all gone along with this crap as silent sheep, does anybody think we would be in a situation with DG and JJ out, and Abrams not in the running.
There is no doubt in my mind that all negative chatter on here, twitter, call ins to radio shows, direct letters, and even the petition. The more things we can do, the more pressure we as fans can bring does have an effect on this ownership.
The comments that suggest anything we say and do will not matter are dead and should be buried forever!
RE: He embarrassed the organization the last couple of months
And I thought made a critical mistake by firing Garrett mid season, a mistake both for football and political reasons.
I’d stress the human side of this. He wasn’t sufficiently qualified, walked into an awful and highly politicized situation, and gradually came unraveled. I’m sure it’s been incredibly painful for him. Hope he gets back on his feet and starts the next phase of his career soon.
Did he embarrass the org? Or was thee org already an embarrassment thrust upon him? Psst? It was the latter.
Judge got fucked over by DG and this leadership. And while everyone is rah fucking rah, just remember that there have been other teams that have cycled head coaches every couple years and never seem to have success...and they have historically been the bottom feeders of the league. The Giants didn't fail bc of JJ. They failed Judge in ever giving him a chance at success, and good luck to the next poor schlub, hopefully he'll get a realistic shot at building something here.
I am 100% confident he would still have a job if he didn't
1) Throw other coaches under the bus
2) QB sneak in victory formation twice in a row
There were a number of other things I personally would have fired him for. But IMO he would still have his job were it not for these two things. He could have had a 10:30 rant that just omitted the part where he broke unwritten football rules and he'd still have a job.
He had tough circumstances. He made them harder on himself. That's why he doesn't have a job.
Some people I'm sad to see leave the front office of my team. Most I'm fairly neutral towards as I wish them the best but do not want them associated with the teams I root for.
There are only 3 people ever for teams that I've rooted for that I was more than happy to see go:
1) DG
2) JJ
3) Isiah Thomas
That's the list. And the fact that the Giants employed two of the most unsuccessful yet arrogant SOBs I've ever seen as team leaders of any franchise is a bit terrifying TBH. But I'm trying to be hopeful that they want to fix this.
I can understand getting your hopes up for JJ, not as much DG lol. But he was such a fraud, I don't understand any pity for the guy. Him calling after being fired to check if he was missed? I guess? is just so in line with everything that was wrong with him. I am fairly confident I'll never again see such an insecure person as a leader of a team, ever again.
Good post right there...
I think he also lost the locker room and other people in the Giants org. If the players don't want you its over, and in any organization you need to create relationships and not burn internal bridges. Judge did neither. I'm convinced if the players were playing hard, and had told management that they supported Judge, he'd still be here.
I really did not expect that this ownership would really do this. I didn't think they had it in them.
I am pleasantly surprised, and I feel more optimistic than I have in a decade. There is no guarantee that they finally pick the right people, but at least there is a chance. I feel like weight has been lifted. Hopefully the team now goes on the right trajectory.
I think he also lost the locker room and other people in the Giants org. If the players don't want you its over, and in any organization you need to create relationships and not burn internal bridges. Judge did neither. I'm convinced if the players were playing hard, and had told management that they supported Judge, he'd still be here.
I don't know whether he did or did not lose the locker room. Even if he did, that was not the determining factor.
His rant where he threw everybody but himself under the bus started the avalanche. Starting yesterday, he needed to the mea culpa, and present to ownership how he was going to change himself. Instead he went in brash, defiant, and arrogant which is how he always is. I am sure he was still throwing others under the bus... It stopped working.
That is what got him fired.
RE: RE: Maybe a new Head Coach can bring Judge back
Very un-Giant like. I feel like he must have made demands or something that really pissed off Mara. There was more there than just losing with a broken roster.
Looking back, it was so much of the Giants need to think outside the box for their next coach, need to get with modern times, outside the organization. That was Joe Judge
While he had some positives, you absolutely can’t start over at the top with a new GM and keep the HC who has that 2 year record, despite all he was up against.
You start over and go complete from GM to HC. Has to be this way, as they are directly tied to each other
Looking back, it was so much of the Giants need to think outside the box for their next coach, need to get with modern times, outside the organization. That was Joe Judge
While he had some positives, you absolutely can’t start over at the top with a new GM and keep the HC who has that 2 year record, despite all he was up against.
You start over and go complete from GM to HC. Has to be this way, as they are directly tied to each other
Judge was a risky choice but not a modern coach. He claimed to run “multiples” but his offense was as vanilla as they come and defense was fairly vanilla both extremely conservative.
He was authoritarian style which is by no means modern.
The Mara’s played up the pats thing and sold him as modern but he wasn’t at all
was a complete fraud. He got this job off a Great interview. That was his resume. He was the best interview Mara said he ever had. Hindsight shows just how ridiculous that is when you really think about it. He was set up poorly nobody can deny that but this organization, this team, basically everything was too big for him. He was learning on the fly in the NY market. Maybe that would've worked in Houston or Cleveland but not here. It swallowed him up and unfortunately everyone should've seen this coming when he was hired.
All the Coaches have been set up poorly going back almost a decade. That is the result of almost a decade of terrible drafting.
He also had a chance to assess the roster after his first year. I believe he had major input in that. Compare the 2005 offseason to 2021. Perhaps you can argue some bad luck but TC had a much better understanding of what his team needed and it was addressed with results. 2021 very little. To me that doomed Judge more than the rants.
Imperative that a first time HC makes progress from year 1 to 2. History is not kind to those who don't. You can not like his rants but I was more concerned with how he viewed
Hard pass on listening to anything that loser Giant Insider says. Spent four years berating and blocking people who said the team was headed in the wrong direction
RE: RE: The Giant Insider podcast on this is a must listen and it's free.
Hard pass on listening to anything that loser Giant Insider says. Spent four years berating and blocking people who said the team was headed in the wrong direction
Did he? This is the first one I've listened to.
RE: RE: RE: The Giant Insider podcast on this is a must listen and it's free.
Hard pass on listening to anything that loser Giant Insider says. Spent four years berating and blocking people who said the team was headed in the wrong direction
I don't like celebrating anyone losing their job, even though Judge is not your average Joe who files for unemployment but still. I had really high hopes for him and was fired up after his introductory press conference. He was exactly what I wanted - a young, tough sob who would restore Giant pride. I bought into everything he was promising and was honestly satisfied with how his first season went last year. The team fought hard and was in games and although Judge had his issues with the Xs and Os, he showed promise. But, I was fooled. We all were. Judge was fugazy. The tough guy character he played in front of cameras was not the same guy in real life and he did not coach that way either. Of course we don't know him in real life but just seeing how he coached scared and indecisive told you everything you needed to know about who is in real life. That being said, he would still be here if wasn't for his big mouth. The excuses were lined up perfectly for him this season. Injuries, covid, no QB, no OL, Gettleman, ect. Yet that 11 minute wannabe WWE promo and going for the QB sneaks were his own undoing. You cannot do that without a resume and a track record. He made himself really unlikeable, fake and taking shots at other coaches is a big no no. Maybe one day this guy can redeem himself and coach again but he needs to look in the mirror and stfu.
BYE BYE Joe. He also embarrassed more and more with every passing week. This wasn't death by 1000 cuts more like death by bleeding out due to 2-3 critical blows. He didn't stand a chance.
The only saving grace was Mara is loyal to a fault sometimes but I think John was pretty convinced by the end.
That's not authoritarian. No one except tv people cared about that. Sterling Shepard was quoted as laughing about it and saying practices at Oklahoma were tougher.
From a business management standpoint, I'm guessing the ownership was conflicted on Monday morning, and gave Judge an ultimatum to submit a formal review of the season, including overall player evaluations of the current roster, who he would keep and continue to work out, what amount of cap space this resulted in for them to play with, and his recommended direction for personnel decisions given Gettleman's retirement and the search for a new GM.
I'm guessing, again, all speculation, but the end of the business day yesterday was the deadline to complete and present the evaluation, and ownership wasn't impressed.
That's how I'd approach it if I were on the fence internally. If he thinks players 1-20 are keepers and worth the contract, but ownership felt many of them were overcompensated or underperformed, and/or the proposed cap room after this evaluation resulted ina n untenable 2022 roster, then he was gone.
Given the performance of the roster, the team, and our cap situation, I'm sure most HC's in the league would be fired in this specific position and this gave ownership the confidence needed to pull the plug for a reset.
I'm really curious to know if this is in anyway accurate; a fun little game for me to guess and see if anything was right.
PS: I didn't read all ~8 or 9 pages of comments to see if there was an in-depth news report on the process leading to the firing, so apologies if my post is pure BS speculation hah. :)
Excited for a chance to see SOMETHING NEW at least. Even if it's a shitty team, it still gives us hope for another 1.5 years or so that we may have gotten the next few major decisions right, just like we were sort of confident for 1.5 years of Judge before the fan base collectively had enough.
oe Judge had no business being an NFL head coach for two years. It was a gross miscalculation on ownership's part, a panic, knee-jerk reaction, and they should know better than to let Bill Belichick steer them. Shame on them. And, better late than never for Giants fans, by the time they spent a few more hours with Judge this week, exploring his vision for the team after his egregious in-game malpractice and ridiculous press conference pablum, they came to the only reasonable decision, which was to terminate his contract.
Getting a reasonably accomplished general manager candidate to take the job while having to stick with Judge would have always been silly. And trying to sell him to your fanbase with season ticket renewals going out and a half-year offseason set to begin would have been backwards. History would indicate that John Mara won't get this latest reboot right, either, but at this point anything would be better than keeping this cursed experiment going.
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In comment 15547549 Anakim said:
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But it won't be anytime soon. He's young, he's an expert bullshitter and he knows the right things to say.
He's not our problem anymore
No chance. He killed that the last month and a half and especially the last few weeks. He wasn't even a strong candidate to begin with. He was a rogue hire because he talked tough and told people what they want to hear in an interview, but didn't know how to achieve any of it.
Even now, I'd argue he's worsened as a coach because of this tenure. He needs a few years of rehab down at the college level as an assistant and maybe he can get a Division II job somewhere.
I don't think Belichick would even take him right now. He's got some radioactivity to him.
What part of Belichick or saban makes you think he cares about whether a coach is liked or not in the media?
Steve Sarkesian was fired for being a drunk on the job as a head football coach and Saban rehabbed his career and got him another HC job.
In the eyes of guys like Belichick and Saban, Judge was fired for a much worse reason - for sucking.
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In comment 15547639 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 15547549 Anakim said:
Quote:
But it won't be anytime soon. He's young, he's an expert bullshitter and he knows the right things to say.
He's not our problem anymore
No chance. He killed that the last month and a half and especially the last few weeks. He wasn't even a strong candidate to begin with. He was a rogue hire because he talked tough and told people what they want to hear in an interview, but didn't know how to achieve any of it.
Even now, I'd argue he's worsened as a coach because of this tenure. He needs a few years of rehab down at the college level as an assistant and maybe he can get a Division II job somewhere.
I don't think Belichick would even take him right now. He's got some radioactivity to him.
What part of Belichick or saban makes you think he cares about whether a coach is liked or not in the media?
Steve Sarkesian was fired for being a drunk on the job as a head football coach and Saban rehabbed his career and got him another HC job.
In the eyes of guys like Belichick and Saban, Judge was fired for a much worse reason - for sucking.
He did the same for Lane Kiffin, another notorious loser until the Saban Jedi Training.
Hope he learns, has success in college, and get back to the NFL one day.
Judge really wore out his welcome inside the building over the last 4-6 weeks.
He lost some players with the two QB sneaks inside the 5.
It sounds like he demanded heavy personnel influence for next season.
Tisch was furious and had a major influence into this decision.
After Judge was let go he followed up with people in organization close to the situation. The reaction was “We’ll be fine. Time to move on”.
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I really like him and his enthusiasm. He just wasn't ready for prime-time. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Spags.
He ran into a perfect storm of ineptness starting in the Front Office (a GM who had lost his "mojo"), a nervous Nelly owner, incompetent coaching staff (and not-to-mention a ton of injuries).
So, instead of a John-Paul-Jones "hell with the torpedos, full speed ahead", he retreated into "let's just not lose"mentality - THAT is what (despite the players' loyalty, destroyed their belief they could win).
I just hope the next GM-combo doesn't take a wrecking ball to the place, the cupboard's not bare.
He had a major say in all personnel decisions. Almost his entire coaching staff was hand-picked by him, mostly SEC coaches.
But yeah, he's the victim here.
+1
Last year the lack of accountability for EEngram left me concerned about both how genuine JJ’s tough disciplinarian talk was and also his ability to assess football talent. The timeout issues, unforced penalties, and overly cautious in-game decisions also left me concerned about his strategic sense and organization skills. After Seattle, I chalked it up to 1st year young coach issues, COVID affecting training and a bad backup QB situation.. It only grew worse this year — and that was to start the season when most everything he wanted was in place, Wasn’t a confidence builder. What transpired the last 6 weeks and the 79-0 at the half was just about the worst I’ve ever seen. Utterly indefensible. His deflection, lobbying and obvious spin was a bad look — and maybe revealed a bit of his true character. The fact there was even a chance of him coming back had me reassessing any belief in ownership’s competence.
With DG/JJ going and if the Giants hire a GM from a successful outside Org with a revamp of personnel/scouting, then maybe this is a true reset with ownership/family stepping out of personnel and football operations. It would provide a real chance for a turnaround. If so, then we can at least feel good that the owners are capable of substantial and meaningful change. I’m interested to see how this plays out.
Judge really wore out his welcome inside the building over the last 4-6 weeks.
He lost some players with the two QB sneaks inside the 5.
It sounds like he demanded heavy personnel influence for next season.
Tisch was furious and had a major influence into this decision.
After Judge was let go he followed up with people in organization close to the situation. The reaction was “We’ll be fine. Time to move on”.
Thanks for that summary.
Judge really wore out his welcome inside the building over the last 4-6 weeks.
He lost some players with the two QB sneaks inside the 5.
It sounds like he demanded heavy personnel influence for next season.
Tisch was furious and had a major influence into this decision.
After Judge was let go he followed up with people in organization close to the situation. The reaction was “We’ll be fine. Time to move on”.
Like I said yesterday! Tisch to save the day!!
But you can’t saddle a new GM with Judge. Any GM worth his salt wants a clean slate. Many would be accepting of an incumbent HC who was well regarded, but that’s obviously not the case. Judge isn’t owed anything beyond his salary, and team had to make this move to get the best GM they can.
LOL!
Although $15 mil for not not working...
1) Throw other coaches under the bus
2) QB sneak in victory formation twice in a row
There were a number of other things I personally would have fired him for. But IMO he would still have his job were it not for these two things. He could have had a 10:30 rant that just omitted the part where he broke unwritten football rules and he'd still have a job.
He had tough circumstances. He made them harder on himself. That's why he doesn't have a job.
Some people I'm sad to see leave the front office of my team. Most I'm fairly neutral towards as I wish them the best but do not want them associated with the teams I root for.
There are only 3 people ever for teams that I've rooted for that I was more than happy to see go:
1) DG
2) JJ
3) Isiah Thomas
That's the list. And the fact that the Giants employed two of the most unsuccessful yet arrogant SOBs I've ever seen as team leaders of any franchise is a bit terrifying TBH. But I'm trying to be hopeful that they want to fix this.
I can understand getting your hopes up for JJ, not as much DG lol. But he was such a fraud, I don't understand any pity for the guy. Him calling after being fired to check if he was missed? I guess? is just so in line with everything that was wrong with him. I am fairly confident I'll never again see such an insecure person as a leader of a team, ever again.
He's been very slow to fix any mistakes and he's quick to blame others for his mistakes.
These are all signs of inexperience. He actually might be a good coach down the road, but he wasn't close to ready now.
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In comment 15547484 aimrocky said:
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But I think Joe Judge will be a Head Coach again and will succeed. It’s going out on a limb, but I did see some positives to go along with his passion, or gift of gab.
1. He chose the right Defensive Coordinater
2. The team played hard for him all of last year
3. Watching his weekly YouTube show, you could see how detail oriented he was and was very clear in his teaching.
I think he was torpedoed by a few things.
1. Gentleman and this atrocity of a roster
2. Garrett and his archaic offense
Mara said he’s a young coach who will need time to succeed. His game management should have been further along in year 2. That’s my biggest issue…. The immaturity shown with the press these final 6 weeks was him buckling under the immense pressure of a crumbling franchise.
With all of that being said this had to happen in order to get all facets of the organization on the same page. Unfortunately Judge was working with the biggest dopes in football.
Judge was over his head. If you can't see it...
When you get sent out in the Atlantic ocean in a row boat, it's easy to look "in over your head."
Judge has many things to work on, clearly (e.g. time mgt, more aggressive offensive approach, better use of the pre-season, etc), but he was hired as a 38 year old HC and the owner stated that they needed to show patience with him. They paired him with THE WORST GM in the NFL, and 10 years worth of bad decisions. They "encouraged" Judge to hire Garrett as his OC. This is an organizational failure and it consumed a young coach that had some potential.
+100
Getting a new GM from outside the organization is the most important thing. Hopefully that leads to a HC that finally delivers after 3 straight losers leading the team.
1) Throw other coaches under the bus
2) QB sneak in victory formation twice in a row
There were a number of other things I personally would have fired him for. But IMO he would still have his job were it not for these two things. He could have had a 10:30 rant that just omitted the part where he broke unwritten football rules and he'd still have a job.
He had tough circumstances. He made them harder on himself. That's why he doesn't have a job.
Some people I'm sad to see leave the front office of my team. Most I'm fairly neutral towards as I wish them the best but do not want them associated with the teams I root for.
There are only 3 people ever for teams that I've rooted for that I was more than happy to see go:
1) DG
2) JJ
3) Isiah Thomas
That's the list. And the fact that the Giants employed two of the most unsuccessful yet arrogant SOBs I've ever seen as team leaders of any franchise is a bit terrifying TBH. But I'm trying to be hopeful that they want to fix this.
I can understand getting your hopes up for JJ, not as much DG lol. But he was such a fraud, I don't understand any pity for the guy. Him calling after being fired to check if he was missed? I guess? is just so in line with everything that was wrong with him. I am fairly confident I'll never again see such an insecure person as a leader of a team, ever again.
Good post right there...
It sounds like he demanded heavy personnel influence for next season.
I was living in the SF Bay Area for Hue Jackson's one season as Raiders' HC.
Raiders got off to a 7-4 start and HJ was in his glory. Then they lost 4 of their last 5, including a Week 17 home loss that knocked them out of a playoff spot.
HJ gave a meltdown post-game PC, saying how sick he was at the result, and how he wouldn't be feeling that way at this time next season because he would be taking control of personnel decisions.
I thought: that is really not a wise thing to say.
He was fired shortly afterwards and it took five years for him to get another HC shot with the Browns.
Judge will be lucky to get that outcome.
Bingo
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There is no doubt in my mind that all negative chatter on here, twitter, call ins to radio shows, direct letters, and even the petition. The more things we can do, the more pressure we as fans can bring does have an effect on this ownership.
The comments that suggest anything we say and do will not matter are dead and should be buried forever!
I’d stress the human side of this. He wasn’t sufficiently qualified, walked into an awful and highly politicized situation, and gradually came unraveled. I’m sure it’s been incredibly painful for him. Hope he gets back on his feet and starts the next phase of his career soon.
Did he embarrass the org? Or was thee org already an embarrassment thrust upon him? Psst? It was the latter.
Judge got fucked over by DG and this leadership. And while everyone is rah fucking rah, just remember that there have been other teams that have cycled head coaches every couple years and never seem to have success...and they have historically been the bottom feeders of the league. The Giants didn't fail bc of JJ. They failed Judge in ever giving him a chance at success, and good luck to the next poor schlub, hopefully he'll get a realistic shot at building something here.
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I am 100% confident he would still have a job if he didn't
1) Throw other coaches under the bus
2) QB sneak in victory formation twice in a row
There were a number of other things I personally would have fired him for. But IMO he would still have his job were it not for these two things. He could have had a 10:30 rant that just omitted the part where he broke unwritten football rules and he'd still have a job.
He had tough circumstances. He made them harder on himself. That's why he doesn't have a job.
Some people I'm sad to see leave the front office of my team. Most I'm fairly neutral towards as I wish them the best but do not want them associated with the teams I root for.
There are only 3 people ever for teams that I've rooted for that I was more than happy to see go:
1) DG
2) JJ
3) Isiah Thomas
That's the list. And the fact that the Giants employed two of the most unsuccessful yet arrogant SOBs I've ever seen as team leaders of any franchise is a bit terrifying TBH. But I'm trying to be hopeful that they want to fix this.
I can understand getting your hopes up for JJ, not as much DG lol. But he was such a fraud, I don't understand any pity for the guy. Him calling after being fired to check if he was missed? I guess? is just so in line with everything that was wrong with him. I am fairly confident I'll never again see such an insecure person as a leader of a team, ever again.
Good post right there...
I think he also lost the locker room and other people in the Giants org. If the players don't want you its over, and in any organization you need to create relationships and not burn internal bridges. Judge did neither. I'm convinced if the players were playing hard, and had told management that they supported Judge, he'd still be here.
I am pleasantly surprised, and I feel more optimistic than I have in a decade. There is no guarantee that they finally pick the right people, but at least there is a chance. I feel like weight has been lifted. Hopefully the team now goes on the right trajectory.
I think he also lost the locker room and other people in the Giants org. If the players don't want you its over, and in any organization you need to create relationships and not burn internal bridges. Judge did neither. I'm convinced if the players were playing hard, and had told management that they supported Judge, he'd still be here.
I don't know whether he did or did not lose the locker room. Even if he did, that was not the determining factor.
His rant where he threw everybody but himself under the bus started the avalanche. Starting yesterday, he needed to the mea culpa, and present to ownership how he was going to change himself. Instead he went in brash, defiant, and arrogant which is how he always is. I am sure he was still throwing others under the bus... It stopped working.
That is what got him fired.
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to coach Special Teams?
::Tom Quinn grabs manilla envelope with photographs out of his safe::
lmfao!!!
While he had some positives, you absolutely can’t start over at the top with a new GM and keep the HC who has that 2 year record, despite all he was up against.
You start over and go complete from GM to HC. Has to be this way, as they are directly tied to each other
While he had some positives, you absolutely can’t start over at the top with a new GM and keep the HC who has that 2 year record, despite all he was up against.
You start over and go complete from GM to HC. Has to be this way, as they are directly tied to each other
Judge was a risky choice but not a modern coach. He claimed to run “multiples” but his offense was as vanilla as they come and defense was fairly vanilla both extremely conservative.
He was authoritarian style which is by no means modern.
The Mara’s played up the pats thing and sold him as modern but he wasn’t at all
He also had a chance to assess the roster after his first year. I believe he had major input in that. Compare the 2005 offseason to 2021. Perhaps you can argue some bad luck but TC had a much better understanding of what his team needed and it was addressed with results. 2021 very little. To me that doomed Judge more than the rants.
Imperative that a first time HC makes progress from year 1 to 2. History is not kind to those who don't. You can not like his rants but I was more concerned with how he viewed
"Let the new GM decide!"
Sounds like all of them did before they even interviewed
Hard pass on listening to anything that loser Giant Insider says. Spent four years berating and blocking people who said the team was headed in the wrong direction
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Please check it out.
Hard pass on listening to anything that loser Giant Insider says. Spent four years berating and blocking people who said the team was headed in the wrong direction
Did he? This is the first one I've listened to.
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In comment 15547883 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Please check it out.
Hard pass on listening to anything that loser Giant Insider says. Spent four years berating and blocking people who said the team was headed in the wrong direction
Did he? This is the first one I've listened to.
He was basically the Twitter version of FMIC
The laps?
The only saving grace was Mara is loyal to a fault sometimes but I think John was pretty convinced by the end.
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It was all fluff.
The laps?
That's not authoritarian. No one except tv people cared about that. Sterling Shepard was quoted as laughing about it and saying practices at Oklahoma were tougher.
I'm guessing, again, all speculation, but the end of the business day yesterday was the deadline to complete and present the evaluation, and ownership wasn't impressed.
That's how I'd approach it if I were on the fence internally. If he thinks players 1-20 are keepers and worth the contract, but ownership felt many of them were overcompensated or underperformed, and/or the proposed cap room after this evaluation resulted ina n untenable 2022 roster, then he was gone.
Given the performance of the roster, the team, and our cap situation, I'm sure most HC's in the league would be fired in this specific position and this gave ownership the confidence needed to pull the plug for a reset.
I'm really curious to know if this is in anyway accurate; a fun little game for me to guess and see if anything was right.
PS: I didn't read all ~8 or 9 pages of comments to see if there was an in-depth news report on the process leading to the firing, so apologies if my post is pure BS speculation hah. :)
Excited for a chance to see SOMETHING NEW at least. Even if it's a shitty team, it still gives us hope for another 1.5 years or so that we may have gotten the next few major decisions right, just like we were sort of confident for 1.5 years of Judge before the fan base collectively had enough.
Getting a reasonably accomplished general manager candidate to take the job while having to stick with Judge would have always been silly. And trying to sell him to your fanbase with season ticket renewals going out and a half-year offseason set to begin would have been backwards. History would indicate that John Mara won't get this latest reboot right, either, but at this point anything would be better than keeping this cursed experiment going.
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Exactly what I was thinking!