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All signs pointing to Jones being out too

JoeyBigBlue : 1/11/2022 5:58 pm
New GM and coach with no allegiance to Daniel Jones. Just an assumption but I think Jones will be traded before the draft.
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Assuming his neck is OK, he will be back.  
BigBlueNH : 1/11/2022 6:28 pm : link
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.

Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
what is the trade value for jones, after having missed  
japanhead : 1/11/2022 6:28 pm : link
the last 6-7 games of the season with a neck injury, prior to which he threw for ten whole touchdown passes. i guess you listen to offers, but you may as well let him hang around and play backup at least.
Play out the year  
Giants73 : 1/11/2022 6:31 pm : link
Get rid of him now and they end up wasting a pick on one of the crap QBs coming out this year. Build the line, build the playbook, and hopefully can mortgage next years draft on one of those QBs.

This allows a full year for the o line in this system. Don’t leave a young QB out there as a tackling dummy. Plus he runs an o well enough to evaluate what other needs on the offense.
RE: Assuming his neck is OK, he will be back.  
jeff57 : 1/11/2022 6:32 pm : link
In comment 15546958 BigBlueNH said:
Quote:
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.

Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.


Agree on all points.
If Jones is healthy he should be here  
ciggy : 1/11/2022 6:33 pm : link
To me the decision is simple. He is young and cheap. Don’t exercise the option. He plays his fourth year and your new regime takes the year to evaluate

This is not a playoff team in 2022. Use the draft capital to build offensive line and get a game breaker on D. And if Jones stinks - - like some of you think - - then You draft your Q B in the 2023 draft. But you have a solid foundation hopefully for the new guy.

And I still give Jones an Incomplete grade. I would like to see him with an O line that actually has some talent. I know many here already have decided he stinks. I just don’t have enough to make a legitimate determination and think the new regime should have a full year to decide. To me It makes sense under the cap and from a team building point of view.
The people saying draft a QB next year are way off  
Go Terps : 1/11/2022 6:37 pm : link
Let's say the Giants have the #1 pick in next year's draft and none of the big '23 prospects are hurt or regress (a big if) between now and then.

Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?

"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.
RE: RE: If healthy  
River Mike : 1/11/2022 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15546804 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15546798 BlueHurricane said:


Quote:


There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.



Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.


THIS ^^^^^^^^^
RE: RE: RE: If healthy  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15546880 Go Terps said:
Quote:

Here's how it plays out if we keep Jones:

1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing



#3 is a key point. At least now we can market Jones as coming off an injury and being a victim of a poor roster construction (DG) and poor coaching (JJ). And maybe some suitor takes that cheese and coughs up a decent pick or two.

If Jones has another poor year, he has basically zero value.
RE: The people saying draft a QB next year are way off  
adamg : 1/11/2022 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15547015 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Let's say the Giants have the #1 pick in next year's draft and none of the big '23 prospects are hurt or regress (a big if) between now and then.

Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?

"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.
I agree.

But I also don't think we need to draft a QB at 5 or 7.

I think taking shots at mid round QBs with low cost vet competition is fine until we're poised for our Herbert.
Pickett  
Producer : 1/11/2022 6:38 pm : link
I'll be honest, his tape looks pretty impressive. Kid is a football player. Just wish he had better size.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If healthy  
adamg : 1/11/2022 6:40 pm : link
In comment 15547025 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15546880 Go Terps said:


Quote:



Here's how it plays out if we keep Jones:

1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing





#3 is a key point. At least now we can market Jones as coming off an injury and being a victim of a poor roster construction (DG) and poor coaching (JJ). And maybe some suitor takes that cheese and coughs up a decent pick or two.

If Jones has another poor year, he has basically zero value.


Plus, we'd be opening up money with our cash strapped cap space. Not that money should be a major factor when it comes to QB, but he's not a proven franchise guy. Trading him gives us more flexibility in FA.
RE: RE: The people saying draft a QB next year are way off  
Go Terps : 1/11/2022 6:40 pm : link
In comment 15547027 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15547015 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Let's say the Giants have the #1 pick in next year's draft and none of the big '23 prospects are hurt or regress (a big if) between now and then.

Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?

"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.

I agree.

But I also don't think we need to draft a QB at 5 or 7.

I think taking shots at mid round QBs with low cost vet competition is fine until we're poised for our Herbert.


We don't have to take a QB at #5 or #7. I would because I like Corral and Pickett and think they're viable in that range, but it's not a requirement.
Some folks here make no sense at all  
ciggy : 1/11/2022 6:43 pm : link
“Jones stinks. We should trade him”. If he’s as bad as you say then what do you think you will get in a trade.

And by the way where are you going to get your next QB? And I assume your new Qb is coming in at an 8.3 cap friendly number similar to Jones? You are delusional
RE: Assuming his neck is OK, he will be back.  
AcidTest : 1/11/2022 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15546958 BigBlueNH said:
Quote:
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.

Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.


Agreed.
RE: RE: Assuming his neck is OK, he will be back.  
Producer : 1/11/2022 6:52 pm : link
In comment 15547073 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 15546958 BigBlueNH said:


Quote:


As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.

Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.



Agreed.


Jones didn't embarrass himself? He ranks 25th in every relevant category. He's garbage. Isn't that embarrassing enough?
We should keep Jones as our backup...  
EricJ : 1/11/2022 6:54 pm : link
at a salary commensurate with that role. He absolutely is a much better backup than what we have had in years.
My bet is that unless  
section125 : 1/11/2022 6:56 pm : link
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.

However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.

I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
RE: Some folks here make no sense at all  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 6:57 pm : link
In comment 15547065 ciggy said:
Quote:
“Jones stinks. We should trade him”. If he’s as bad as you say then what do you think you will get in a trade.

And by the way where are you going to get your next QB? And I assume your new Qb is coming in at an 8.3 cap friendly number similar to Jones? You are delusional


A good GM can do these two key pieces at once - trade Jones and find another solution.

This position that we have to keep Jones because there can't possibly be better alternative is - to quote my old Fat friend in Charlotte - obtuse.
RE: My bet is that unless  
Producer : 1/11/2022 6:59 pm : link
In comment 15547138 section125 said:
Quote:
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.

However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.

I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.


jfc.. enough of this talk that you keep a QB because he's cheap. Let's keep a QB because he's good.
RE: My bet is that unless  
Go Terps : 1/11/2022 7:00 pm : link
In comment 15547138 section125 said:
Quote:
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.

However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.

I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.


I've been saying the same for years about QBs. I'm only thinking about the next 2-4 years when I'm looking at QB prospects. If you land a special one like Herbert, great - but always be open to moving on if you don't.
RE: they're not going to trade a cheap, young QB  
GMen72 : 1/11/2022 7:02 pm : link
In comment 15546713 bigblue12 said:
Quote:
He will have to compete for the job, with no strings attached. That is a good thing.


He has no trade value...6th at best. Just keep him, let him compete with a veteran, and then let him walk.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2022 7:04 pm : link
I think I officially threw in the white towel on Jones after that horrific pick in the Bucs game. I was trending in the 'He isn't the answer long term...' but after that...I was, 'This guy has to go.'
I think Jones  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/11/2022 7:05 pm : link
Can fetch a 3rd round pick for a team looking for a young starter with upside. He needs to be coached up, but he is better than he has shown on a shit team.
Jones  
SleepyOwl : 1/11/2022 7:06 pm : link
Is still a very very viable option at QB. Bring in a solid vet for competition. Marcus Marriotta, Gardner Minshew even Andy Dalton would push this kid for playing time.
RE: RE: RE: The people saying draft a QB next year are way off  
adamg : 1/11/2022 7:09 pm : link
In comment 15547046 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15547027 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15547015 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Let's say the Giants have the #1 pick in next year's draft and none of the big '23 prospects are hurt or regress (a big if) between now and then.

Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?

"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.

I agree.

But I also don't think we need to draft a QB at 5 or 7.

I think taking shots at mid round QBs with low cost vet competition is fine until we're poised for our Herbert.



We don't have to take a QB at #5 or #7. I would because I like Corral and Pickett and think they're viable in that range, but it's not a requirement.


You think Corral and Pickett are both franchise QBs?
RE: RE: My bet is that unless  
section125 : 1/11/2022 7:09 pm : link
In comment 15547161 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15547138 section125 said:


Quote:


he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.

However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.

I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.



I've been saying the same for years about QBs. I'm only thinking about the next 2-4 years when I'm looking at QB prospects. If you land a special one like Herbert, great - but always be open to moving on if you don't.


You may have subliminally swayed me. But with the price of 2nd contracts, it makes the most sense. As much fun and "skilled" as Lamar is, is anybody going to pay $30-$40 mill for 5 years for him, because of the chance of injury? I would be leery.
RE: It makes no  
christian : 1/11/2022 7:15 pm : link
In comment 15546796 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
sense for Jones to be out.

Unless he's injured.

He has an $8.3M cap hit and almost all of it is dead cap if he's cut. You're not cutting player for 200k cap savings.


The Giants won’t cut Jones, but trading him before the league year begins saves the Giants about 4.2M (roster bonus + salary).
If he’s healthy  
Bones : 1/11/2022 7:20 pm : link
He will be here this year and they will pick up his option for following year. QBs don’t grow on trees. Probably not drafting QB this year. If they draft one next year, they will probably need to have Jones start the year and ease new guy in.
RE: RE: RE: If healthy  
myquealer : 1/11/2022 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15546880 Go Terps said:

1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing

[/quote]

3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.

Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him.
RE: RE: The last 6 weeks  
Poktown Pete : 1/11/2022 7:38 pm : link
In comment 15546741 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15546724 bdre992 said:


Quote:


Softened my stance on him.



I’d still really would like to see what he could do with a decent OL.

The dude locks in on someone regardless of someone else being wide open. I don't see that changing with a better OL.
Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2022 7:39 pm : link
Until August.

No one's trading for him.
What has Jones  
Scooter185 : 1/11/2022 7:41 pm : link
shown to survive 2 HC and 1 GM firing? Why would either the new GM or HC want to keep DGs mistakes?
RE: RE: RE: RE: If healthy  
Producer : 1/11/2022 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15547350 myquealer said:
Quote:
In comment 15546880 Go Terps said:

1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing

A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.



3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.

Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
RE: RE: RE: RE: If healthy  
Producer : 1/11/2022 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15547350 myquealer said:
Quote:
In comment 15546880 Go Terps said:

1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing

A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.



3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.

Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15547379 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Until August.

No one's trading for him.


I didn't hear that.

Then I would cut him and take the hit.
it depends on the return  
GiantsFan84 : 1/11/2022 7:43 pm : link
if they can get something similar to the darnold deal i do it in a minute. i'd like to think with teams needing QBs who are contenders (Pitt, Saints, Broncos, Panthers) that maybe one of them is willing to roll the dice on Jones

Jones is not the future of this team. they can find a veteran to throw in there for now at a cheaper price
RE: RE: RE: RE: If healthy  
Producer : 1/11/2022 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15547350 myquealer said:
Quote:
In comment 15546880 Go Terps said:

1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing




3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.

Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]


A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
RE: ...  
Carl in CT : 1/11/2022 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15546933 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.


Didn’t elevate? Have you seen this team without him? Total Shit!! At least he was competitive in most games beat Philly, NO. Team lost close games. Without him not even on the same league as Filthy. Last time I looked football is a team game and he held up
His end.
RE: What has Jones  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15547385 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
shown to survive 2 HC and 1 GM firing? Why would either the new GM or HC want to keep DGs mistakes?


To quote some clown at BBI today:

"Jones had a better INT% this year than Allen and Herbert..."

New GM and HC decide on Jones  
dpinzow : 1/11/2022 7:47 pm : link
hopefully without interference from Mara or his family members in the front office
RE: RE: ...  
Producer : 1/11/2022 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15547404 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15546933 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.



Didn’t elevate? Have you seen this team without him? Total Shit!! At least he was competitive in most games beat Philly, NO. Team lost close games. Without him not even on the same league as Filthy. Last time I looked football is a team game and he held up
His end.


Elevated the team to 12-25.
RE: RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2022 8:01 pm : link
In comment 15547399 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15547379 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Until August.

No one's trading for him.



I didn't hear that.

Then I would cut him and take the hit.


From Jones himself. No contact till August.

https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-neck-injury-status-saquon-barkley-dave-gettleman-joe-judge
TTH...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2022 8:05 pm : link
Thanks. Missed that detail.
This Qb class is weak  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/11/2022 8:05 pm : link
Bring in a veteran to compete with Jones and don’t pick up his 5th year option. Draft a QB next year. Trading out of the first round this year with one of their picks for a pick next year could make a a lot of sense for a possible trade up to get your QB (if needed)
RE: RE: ...  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/11/2022 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15546944 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15546933 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.



No, just a decent OL.


Do you consider Slayton a tremendous skill player?
RE: TTH...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2022 8:11 pm : link
In comment 15547460 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Thanks. Missed that detail.



I think all of is did in the frenzy of last weekend.

Giants probably need a QB Jones or no Jones.
RE: RE: RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared  
guitarguybs12 : 1/11/2022 8:24 pm : link
In comment 15547452 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15547399 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15547379 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Until August.

No one's trading for him.



I didn't hear that.

Then I would cut him and take the hit.



From Jones himself. No contact till August.

https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-neck-injury-status-saquon-barkley-dave-gettleman-joe-judge


I'm pretty sure that's just saying there's not any team activities with contact scheduled for him until training camp... not that his injury will take until August to be cleared.
RE: Pickett  
rnargi : 1/11/2022 8:36 pm : link
In comment 15547028 Producer said:
Quote:
I'll be honest, his tape looks pretty impressive. Kid is a football player. Just wish he had better size.


You're kidding, right? He's Hienecke. Same fucking guy.
The ultimate catastrophe for the Giants  
Jerry in_DC : 1/11/2022 8:46 pm : link
is Mara paying Jones $100M+. We're done for a long time if that happens and Mara desperately wants to do it. The good news is that having a real GM in place will help defend against that. So I'm less worried about it now.

I still really hope we move on from Jones this year. The long-term commitment is still a risk, giving him snaps is a waste, and his robotic play is just horrendous to watch.

Next year is going to be crap regardless, but I'd prefer a different flavor of crap.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2022 9:00 pm : link
In comment 15547556 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
In comment 15547452 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 15547399 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15547379 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Until August.

No one's trading for him.



I didn't hear that.

Then I would cut him and take the hit.



From Jones himself. No contact till August.

https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-neck-injury-status-saquon-barkley-dave-gettleman-joe-judge



I'm pretty sure that's just saying there's not any team activities with contact scheduled for him until training camp... not that his injury will take until August to be cleared.


I think this is really clear and no room for interpretation.



Jones said he "absolutely" expects to be fully cleared in the spring or summer.

"There's no contact for me until August," he said. "So, I can do everything from a lifting, throwing, running standpoint. I'm not limited in those areas. It is a process. I think it's weeks, but it's really irrelevant at this point because I don't expect to be doing any contact."
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