but Jones didn't embarrass himself like JJ or DG. My guess is he gets a shot in camp. But feeling much better about his 5th year option not getting picked up.
but I would not discount him getting this year. There really are no good options and he is cost contained. Again, no way to know this, but it is also possible he gets another year by default
assuming he’s healthy. I don’t know who they would get that would be better without giving up a ton. But yeah, even in that situation, if he doesn’t look amazing, he’s gone.
I don't see much correlation here - unlike with Judge a new GM
He’s not the future at QB and this solidifies it. The only hope for him in 2022 is new GM will let him absorb more losing and physical impact of the full rebuild implementation before he gets his QB in 2023.
and since you can't solve everything all at once, I'd give him another year and develop someone or look to next year's draft. Fix the OLine and the pass rush this year.
There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.
There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.
Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.
If you're the Giants, and you just fired your GM and coaches,
you have already admitted your QB didn't have a chance. Jones shouldn't be "in" or "out" at this point (assuming he is physically still able to play). The new guys decide.
you have already admitted your QB didn't have a chance. Jones shouldn't be "in" or "out" at this point (assuming he is physically still able to play). The new guys decide.
They may well get rid of him and really rebuild.
But he sucks dude. He hasn't done anything in three years. Get over it.
so I would be okay with Jones playing out his last contract year even though I gave up on him last year.
What does forced mean exactly?
For example, let's say we trade one of these top ten picks to move down to grab a lower first and maybe another second. And we use the lower first - say in the 20-30 range - on a Desmond. Is that a force?
Draft plan should be to look for a QB in the 2023 draft. better QB crop and we promise to be not very good next year. We forced Jones when the better QB prospects Herbert and Tua were the following year. Couldn't draft Herbert because we already had Jones.
There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.
Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.
I've outlined many times why trading Jones makes sense. I'll just copy what I posted yesterday:
No reason to pay Jones $8M when you can trade him for something (even if it's for a 7th), spend less on an FA, and not lose anything in quality of play.
Here's how it plays out if we keep Jones:
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
Even if we don't draft a QB, how is that scenario preferable to trading him and signing a cheaper FA that can play at the same or higher level?
And this is not to mention eliminating Mara's temptation to pay Jones, which would be a catastrophe.
but I keep thinking that if Dsrnold netted a 2020 6th and 2021 2nd/4th I can't help but feel Jones could get you a 3rd if healthy. He's got physical tools and someone will think they can coach up the processing issues. It only takes one.
Why do you expect to get anything for him? If he’s terrible, how’s Jones walking at the end of the season and the Giants getting nothing in return a concern?
Jones wasn't the problem you are all idiots. The offensive line has been the issue and needs to be fixed no matter who is quarterback.
let's be honest and call it like it is. At his worst he's serviceable backup, and his best an average starter. He doesn't have great arm strength, rarely made great plays, turned the ball over like a machine and had brain farts leading to bad play. I think weve seen enough of Daniel Jones, three years of evaluation is enough for most of us.
RE: Don't make the same mistake you made with Jones
Draft plan should be to look for a QB in the 2023 draft. better QB crop and we promise to be not very good next year. We forced Jones when the better QB prospects Herbert and Tua were the following year. Couldn't draft Herbert because we already had Jones.
Yes. Could have had Josh Allen rushing off the edge and Herbert at QB.
Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
Why do you expect to get anything for him? If he’s terrible, how’s Jones walking at the end of the season and the Giants getting nothing in return a concern?
Because the snaps he eats in 2022 have value, and I don't want to see them wasted on him.
he can play again, I think he'll be here competing for the starting QB position. As others have said, he's cost controlled. Just don't pick up his fifth year option. But absent an incredible 2022, this is likely his last year with the Giants. A new GM and coach will almost certainly want their own QB, and Jones definitely has warts.
I don't see much of a trade market for Jones even if his neck injury heals completely and isn't a long term concern. Teams will already understandably be concerned about his injury history, and propensity for fumbling. But trading him for a seventh is silly.
Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
what is the trade value for jones, after having missed
the last 6-7 games of the season with a neck injury, prior to which he threw for ten whole touchdown passes. i guess you listen to offers, but you may as well let him hang around and play backup at least.
Get rid of him now and they end up wasting a pick on one of the crap QBs coming out this year. Build the line, build the playbook, and hopefully can mortgage next years draft on one of those QBs.
This allows a full year for the o line in this system. Don’t leave a young QB out there as a tackling dummy. Plus he runs an o well enough to evaluate what other needs on the offense.
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
To me the decision is simple. He is young and cheap. Don’t exercise the option. He plays his fourth year and your new regime takes the year to evaluate
This is not a playoff team in 2022. Use the draft capital to build offensive line and get a game breaker on D. And if Jones stinks - - like some of you think - - then You draft your Q B in the 2023 draft. But you have a solid foundation hopefully for the new guy.
And I still give Jones an Incomplete grade. I would like to see him with an O line that actually has some talent. I know many here already have decided he stinks. I just don’t have enough to make a legitimate determination and think the new regime should have a full year to decide. To me It makes sense under the cap and from a team building point of view.
The people saying draft a QB next year are way off
There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.
Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
#3 is a key point. At least now we can market Jones as coming off an injury and being a victim of a poor roster construction (DG) and poor coaching (JJ). And maybe some suitor takes that cheese and coughs up a decent pick or two.
If Jones has another poor year, he has basically zero value.
RE: The people saying draft a QB next year are way off
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
#3 is a key point. At least now we can market Jones as coming off an injury and being a victim of a poor roster construction (DG) and poor coaching (JJ). And maybe some suitor takes that cheese and coughs up a decent pick or two.
If Jones has another poor year, he has basically zero value.
Plus, we'd be opening up money with our cash strapped cap space. Not that money should be a major factor when it comes to QB, but he's not a proven franchise guy. Trading him gives us more flexibility in FA.
RE: RE: The people saying draft a QB next year are way off
“Jones stinks. We should trade him”. If he’s as bad as you say then what do you think you will get in a trade.
And by the way where are you going to get your next QB? And I assume your new Qb is coming in at an 8.3 cap friendly number similar to Jones? You are delusional
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
Agreed.
Jones didn't embarrass himself? He ranks 25th in every relevant category. He's garbage. Isn't that embarrassing enough?
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
“Jones stinks. We should trade him”. If he’s as bad as you say then what do you think you will get in a trade.
And by the way where are you going to get your next QB? And I assume your new Qb is coming in at an 8.3 cap friendly number similar to Jones? You are delusional
A good GM can do these two key pieces at once - trade Jones and find another solution.
This position that we have to keep Jones because there can't possibly be better alternative is - to quote my old Fat friend in Charlotte - obtuse.
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
jfc.. enough of this talk that you keep a QB because he's cheap. Let's keep a QB because he's good.
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
I've been saying the same for years about QBs. I'm only thinking about the next 2-4 years when I'm looking at QB prospects. If you land a special one like Herbert, great - but always be open to moving on if you don't.
I think I officially threw in the white towel on Jones after that horrific pick in the Bucs game. I was trending in the 'He isn't the answer long term...' but after that...I was, 'This guy has to go.'
Can fetch a 3rd round pick for a team looking for a young starter with upside. He needs to be coached up, but he is better than he has shown on a shit team.
Is still a very very viable option at QB. Bring in a solid vet for competition. Marcus Marriotta, Gardner Minshew even Andy Dalton would push this kid for playing time.
RE: RE: RE: The people saying draft a QB next year are way off
he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
I've been saying the same for years about QBs. I'm only thinking about the next 2-4 years when I'm looking at QB prospects. If you land a special one like Herbert, great - but always be open to moving on if you don't.
You may have subliminally swayed me. But with the price of 2nd contracts, it makes the most sense. As much fun and "skilled" as Lamar is, is anybody going to pay $30-$40 mill for 5 years for him, because of the chance of injury? I would be leery.
He will be here this year and they will pick up his option for following year. QBs don’t grow on trees. Probably not drafting QB this year. If they draft one next year, they will probably need to have Jones start the year and ease new guy in.
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
[/quote]
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him.
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared
if they can get something similar to the darnold deal i do it in a minute. i'd like to think with teams needing QBs who are contenders (Pitt, Saints, Broncos, Panthers) that maybe one of them is willing to roll the dice on Jones
Jones is not the future of this team. they can find a veteran to throw in there for now at a cheaper price
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
Didn’t elevate? Have you seen this team without him? Total Shit!! At least he was competitive in most games beat Philly, NO. Team lost close games. Without him not even on the same league as Filthy. Last time I looked football is a team game and he held up
His end.
Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
Didn’t elevate? Have you seen this team without him? Total Shit!! At least he was competitive in most games beat Philly, NO. Team lost close games. Without him not even on the same league as Filthy. Last time I looked football is a team game and he held up
His end.
Elevated the team to 12-25.
RE: RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared
Bring in a veteran to compete with Jones and don’t pick up his 5th year option. Draft a QB next year. Trading out of the first round this year with one of their picks for a pick next year could make a a lot of sense for a possible trade up to get your QB (if needed)
Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
No, just a decent OL.
Do you consider Slayton a tremendous skill player?
I'm pretty sure that's just saying there's not any team activities with contact scheduled for him until training camp... not that his injury will take until August to be cleared.
is Mara paying Jones $100M+. We're done for a long time if that happens and Mara desperately wants to do it. The good news is that having a real GM in place will help defend against that. So I'm less worried about it now.
I still really hope we move on from Jones this year. The long-term commitment is still a risk, giving him snaps is a waste, and his robotic play is just horrendous to watch.
Next year is going to be crap regardless, but I'd prefer a different flavor of crap.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones doesn't think he'll be medically cleared
I'm pretty sure that's just saying there's not any team activities with contact scheduled for him until training camp... not that his injury will take until August to be cleared.
I think this is really clear and no room for interpretation.
Jones said he "absolutely" expects to be fully cleared in the spring or summer.
"There's no contact for me until August," he said. "So, I can do everything from a lifting, throwing, running standpoint. I'm not limited in those areas. It is a process. I think it's weeks, but it's really irrelevant at this point because I don't expect to be doing any contact."
So under a new regime he could still be a viable option long term.
in is how will a new GM and HC view him and what they will do this year at QB.
QB becomes a very interesting conversation for free agency, draft, trade of Jones, or roll with him one more year.
Jones value probably goes up with a solid preseason. Who wants the Giants QB with a potentially career ending injury?
I’d still really would like to see what he could do with a decent OL.
Quote:
Needs a new pair of shorts.
Jones wasn't the problem you are all idiots. The offensive line has been the issue and needs to be fixed no matter who is quarterback.
Jones wasn't the problem you are all idiots. The offensive line has been the issue and needs to be fixed no matter who is quarterback.
No one who recognizes that Jones stinks is happy with the OL. This is such a silly strawman.
So then Brian Lewerke, Fromm, Glennon are the QBs ... that makes zero sense
I don't want to see Daniel Jones take another snap as a Giant. He's a lame duck.
Unless he's injured.
He has an $8.3M cap hit and almost all of it is dead cap if he's cut. You're not cutting player for 200k cap savings.
I doubt anyone trades for him, so how do signs point to him being out even if the GM who drafted him is no longer in NY?
If you mean after 2022, then sure. but a lot can happen in a year.
Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.
They may well get rid of him and really rebuild.
Quote:
In comment 15546721 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Needs a new pair of shorts.
Jones wasn't the problem you are all idiots. The offensive line has been the issue and needs to be fixed no matter who is quarterback.
Whatever you want to tell yourself. You can keep this fiction up when he's a backup for the rest of his career somewhere else.
New GM (check)
New head coach (check)
New QB...almost there
The stench of these last four years is finally starting to come out.
They may well get rid of him and really rebuild.
But he sucks dude. He hasn't done anything in three years. Get over it.
The evaluation is over. No more eval time.
If not the 2023 draft is QB loaded
New GM plus new head coach plus New OC will give DJ a chance
Thus draft is of premium importance for new GM to hit a home run and start the rebuild off on the right foot
I think it's relatively cheap to keep Jones for 2022, but there needs to be a vet and / or mid round pick (at least) for competition.
Unless they can get some outrageous trade compensation for Jones (very unlikely now with the neck issue), he'll be back.
What does forced mean exactly?
For example, let's say we trade one of these top ten picks to move down to grab a lower first and maybe another second. And we use the lower first - say in the 20-30 range - on a Desmond. Is that a force?
Once that box is checked, he needs to be traded. I'll take anything at this point.
Giants need a fresh start. Win win.
Playing time is one of the few assets the Giants have. Let’s use it to find rising young players. Not waste it on Jones.
Quote:
There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.
Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.
I've outlined many times why trading Jones makes sense. I'll just copy what I posted yesterday:
2021 1 year signings:
Fitzpatrick - $10M
Dalton - $10M
Taylor - $5.5M
Winston - $5.5M
Brissett - $5M
Bridgewater - $4.4M
Mariota - $3.5M
Trubisky - $2.5M
No reason to pay Jones $8M when you can trade him for something (even if it's for a 7th), spend less on an FA, and not lose anything in quality of play.
Here's how it plays out if we keep Jones:
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
Even if we don't draft a QB, how is that scenario preferable to trading him and signing a cheaper FA that can play at the same or higher level?
And this is not to mention eliminating Mara's temptation to pay Jones, which would be a catastrophe.
Jones gets another year. Giants draft OLine this year.Unless Jones takes major steps forward this year, Giants draft a new QB next year.
Quote:
In comment 15546721 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Needs a new pair of shorts.
Jones wasn't the problem you are all idiots. The offensive line has been the issue and needs to be fixed no matter who is quarterback.
let's be honest and call it like it is. At his worst he's serviceable backup, and his best an average starter. He doesn't have great arm strength, rarely made great plays, turned the ball over like a machine and had brain farts leading to bad play. I think weve seen enough of Daniel Jones, three years of evaluation is enough for most of us.
Yes. Could have had Josh Allen rushing off the edge and Herbert at QB.
Because the snaps he eats in 2022 have value, and I don't want to see them wasted on him.
And this is not to mention eliminating Mara's temptation to pay Jones, which would be a catastrophe.
Mara has done a terrible job, but I’m not even remotely worried about this.
If not the 2023 draft is QB loaded
New GM plus new head coach plus New OC will give DJ a chance
Thus draft is of premium importance for new GM to hit a home run and start the rebuild off on the right foot
Nonsense. DJ has proved what he is.
I don't see much of a trade market for Jones even if his neck injury heals completely and isn't a long term concern. Teams will already understandably be concerned about his injury history, and propensity for fumbling. But trading him for a seventh is silly.
No, just a decent OL.
Herbert doesn't fall till the 6th pick of the 2020 draft.
He's either 1st or 2nd. Which means Giants would have to face him or Burrow two times a year instead of Cedric Jones 2.0
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
This allows a full year for the o line in this system. Don’t leave a young QB out there as a tackling dummy. Plus he runs an o well enough to evaluate what other needs on the offense.
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
Agree on all points.
This is not a playoff team in 2022. Use the draft capital to build offensive line and get a game breaker on D. And if Jones stinks - - like some of you think - - then You draft your Q B in the 2023 draft. But you have a solid foundation hopefully for the new guy.
And I still give Jones an Incomplete grade. I would like to see him with an O line that actually has some talent. I know many here already have decided he stinks. I just don’t have enough to make a legitimate determination and think the new regime should have a full year to decide. To me It makes sense under the cap and from a team building point of view.
Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?
"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.
Quote:
There is literally no downside to having Jones here. Someone should absolutely be brought in for competition but Jones here on the last year of his deal is a not a bad thing.
Rational people recognize this, but there are a lot of irrational people on BBI.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^
Here's how it plays out if we keep Jones:
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
#3 is a key point. At least now we can market Jones as coming off an injury and being a victim of a poor roster construction (DG) and poor coaching (JJ). And maybe some suitor takes that cheese and coughs up a decent pick or two.
If Jones has another poor year, he has basically zero value.
Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?
"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.
But I also don't think we need to draft a QB at 5 or 7.
I think taking shots at mid round QBs with low cost vet competition is fine until we're poised for our Herbert.
Quote:
Here's how it plays out if we keep Jones:
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
#3 is a key point. At least now we can market Jones as coming off an injury and being a victim of a poor roster construction (DG) and poor coaching (JJ). And maybe some suitor takes that cheese and coughs up a decent pick or two.
If Jones has another poor year, he has basically zero value.
Plus, we'd be opening up money with our cash strapped cap space. Not that money should be a major factor when it comes to QB, but he's not a proven franchise guy. Trading him gives us more flexibility in FA.
Quote:
Let's say the Giants have the #1 pick in next year's draft and none of the big '23 prospects are hurt or regress (a big if) between now and then.
Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?
"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.
I agree.
But I also don't think we need to draft a QB at 5 or 7.
I think taking shots at mid round QBs with low cost vet competition is fine until we're poised for our Herbert.
We don't have to take a QB at #5 or #7. I would because I like Corral and Pickett and think they're viable in that range, but it's not a requirement.
And by the way where are you going to get your next QB? And I assume your new Qb is coming in at an 8.3 cap friendly number similar to Jones? You are delusional
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
Agreed.
Quote:
As pointed out above, there is not a college QB ready to come in and be obviously better, and we can't afford a high=priced FA. We'll bring in a low-priced FA and/or a mid-round draft pick and call it a competition.
Jones didn't embarass himself behind a shitshow OL. With better protection, he should be better. And if that isn't good enough, we move on next year when (1) the college pickings should be better and (2) we'll have some cap space.
Agreed.
Jones didn't embarrass himself? He ranks 25th in every relevant category. He's garbage. Isn't that embarrassing enough?
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
And by the way where are you going to get your next QB? And I assume your new Qb is coming in at an 8.3 cap friendly number similar to Jones? You are delusional
A good GM can do these two key pieces at once - trade Jones and find another solution.
This position that we have to keep Jones because there can't possibly be better alternative is - to quote my old Fat friend in Charlotte - obtuse.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
jfc.. enough of this talk that you keep a QB because he's cheap. Let's keep a QB because he's good.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
I've been saying the same for years about QBs. I'm only thinking about the next 2-4 years when I'm looking at QB prospects. If you land a special one like Herbert, great - but always be open to moving on if you don't.
He has no trade value...6th at best. Just keep him, let him compete with a veteran, and then let him walk.
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In comment 15547015 Go Terps said:
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Let's say the Giants have the #1 pick in next year's draft and none of the big '23 prospects are hurt or regress (a big if) between now and then.
Are you suggesting we pass on Will Anderson to draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud? Seriously?
"Build the OL this year and draft a QB in '23" isn't viable.
I agree.
But I also don't think we need to draft a QB at 5 or 7.
I think taking shots at mid round QBs with low cost vet competition is fine until we're poised for our Herbert.
We don't have to take a QB at #5 or #7. I would because I like Corral and Pickett and think they're viable in that range, but it's not a requirement.
You think Corral and Pickett are both franchise QBs?
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he is seriously injured he will be back for one more season. He is still relatively cheap.
However, if a new GM and coach decide he should be traded and get a nice pick for him, I am for it. I changed my mind after the Rams game. I do not think he is the answer. He is smart, hard working with some decent skills, but he is also unable to stay healthy and complete drives into TDs.
I think the NFL will be going to a use, abuse and lose QB stage. They are far to expensive to pay unless they have Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes ability and consistently deliver. Herbert, Burrow and Allen appear to be going done that path. 2nd contracts to QBs will be fewer with teams opting to draft young playmakers or older less expensive options. Anyway my opinion.
I've been saying the same for years about QBs. I'm only thinking about the next 2-4 years when I'm looking at QB prospects. If you land a special one like Herbert, great - but always be open to moving on if you don't.
You may have subliminally swayed me. But with the price of 2nd contracts, it makes the most sense. As much fun and "skilled" as Lamar is, is anybody going to pay $30-$40 mill for 5 years for him, because of the chance of injury? I would be leery.
Unless he's injured.
He has an $8.3M cap hit and almost all of it is dead cap if he's cut. You're not cutting player for 200k cap savings.
The Giants won’t cut Jones, but trading him before the league year begins saves the Giants about 4.2M (roster bonus + salary).
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
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3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him.
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Softened my stance on him.
I’d still really would like to see what he could do with a decent OL.
The dude locks in on someone regardless of someone else being wide open. I don't see that changing with a better OL.
No one's trading for him.
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
No one's trading for him.
I didn't hear that.
Then I would cut him and take the hit.
Jones is not the future of this team. they can find a veteran to throw in there for now at a cheaper price
1. He has another bad season and the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG
2. He takes valuable snaps from a (possible) rookie QB
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get nothing
3. He walks at the end of the season and we get a third round compensatory pick.
Not so much less than we'd get in a trade now, but we have a year to build a line so we don't waste another high draft pick QB when we can't protect him. [/quote]
A new GM is not picking up Jones' 5th year. He's not worth that money and presumably the new GM is not as stupid as Gettleman.
Didn’t elevate? Have you seen this team without him? Total Shit!! At least he was competitive in most games beat Philly, NO. Team lost close games. Without him not even on the same league as Filthy. Last time I looked football is a team game and he held up
His end.
To quote some clown at BBI today:
"Jones had a better INT% this year than Allen and Herbert..."
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Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
Didn’t elevate? Have you seen this team without him? Total Shit!! At least he was competitive in most games beat Philly, NO. Team lost close games. Without him not even on the same league as Filthy. Last time I looked football is a team game and he held up
His end.
Elevated the team to 12-25.
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Until August.
No one's trading for him.
I didn't hear that.
Then I would cut him and take the hit.
From Jones himself. No contact till August.
https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-neck-injury-status-saquon-barkley-dave-gettleman-joe-judge
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Apparently DJ needs an adequate OL & tremendous skill players to win. I guess when you're drafted 6th overall, you're not supposed to elevate those around you.
No, just a decent OL.
Do you consider Slayton a tremendous skill player?
I think all of is did in the frenzy of last weekend.
Giants probably need a QB Jones or no Jones.
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In comment 15547379 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Until August.
No one's trading for him.
I didn't hear that.
Then I would cut him and take the hit.
From Jones himself. No contact till August.
https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-neck-injury-status-saquon-barkley-dave-gettleman-joe-judge
I'm pretty sure that's just saying there's not any team activities with contact scheduled for him until training camp... not that his injury will take until August to be cleared.
You're kidding, right? He's Hienecke. Same fucking guy.
I still really hope we move on from Jones this year. The long-term commitment is still a risk, giving him snaps is a waste, and his robotic play is just horrendous to watch.
Next year is going to be crap regardless, but I'd prefer a different flavor of crap.
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In comment 15547399 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15547379 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Until August.
No one's trading for him.
I didn't hear that.
Then I would cut him and take the hit.
From Jones himself. No contact till August.
https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-neck-injury-status-saquon-barkley-dave-gettleman-joe-judge
I'm pretty sure that's just saying there's not any team activities with contact scheduled for him until training camp... not that his injury will take until August to be cleared.
I think this is really clear and no room for interpretation.
Jones said he "absolutely" expects to be fully cleared in the spring or summer.
"There's no contact for me until August," he said. "So, I can do everything from a lifting, throwing, running standpoint. I'm not limited in those areas. It is a process. I think it's weeks, but it's really irrelevant at this point because I don't expect to be doing any contact."