But Tim and Chris aren’t going anywhere. And Abraham will probably end up in another role or maybe back on cap.
Which is fine. Chris and Tim are deballed right now and I don't see either having much ass to throw around at the moment. DeFacto, I don't see either being a real problem. An Annoyance, maybe, but that's it.
But Tim and Chris aren’t going anywhere. And Abraham will probably end up in another role or maybe back on cap.
Which is fine. Chris and Tim are deballed right now and I don't see either having much ass to throw around at the moment. DeFacto, I don't see either being a real problem. An Annoyance, maybe, but that's it.
That’s not wrong. People believe what they want. Chris Mara involvement is vastly overstated by people that don’t know anything. Even logic fails I. His case. That of a mid 60s millionaire that has passed the pinnacle of his career. A vanity title and a job where he works as much or as little as he feels like. Tim is most likely being groomed to run the franchise at some point. Most accounts are that he works hard and is fairly bright. Learning the business is probably in the best interests long term.
Tim is most likely being groomed to run the franchise at some point. Most accounts are that he works hard and is fairly bright. Learning the business is probably in the best interests long term.
I saw giant insider say this - but who knows. They have a source that strategically feeds them info and says oh by the way Tim is really bright - dunno what to believe here. Gore are they too really know. Has anyone spent real direct time with Tim to make their own evaluation? Could be true but has that propaganda feel to it.
Chris Mara dabbles in player personal.....more character issues
members that some are demanding. Chris Mara isn’t getting fired or pushed out anytime soon.
But I’d like to think they really are serious about doing an honest review of the org structure and decision making processes.
IMO the problem isn’t just on Chris Mara or any one person, but rather having multiple factions within the org with at times competing agendas contributing to decisions
Chris Mara thing is what I cant understand. You have all the media members trying to convince the fan base that he is not the source of the problems, he has a voice at the table but he is no longer active in decision making, which I get. Maybe we don't know how much he does and maybe its true, I don't know. If what the media is saying is true, then I don't understand what the problem is in removing the title and just giving him a title of Co-Owner. If he isn't active as the the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel then he shouldn't have that title. Co-Owner is a title that gets you a seat at the table and a voice, Senior Vice President of Player Personnel should not be leaving drafts to go watch horse races.
Why not have him arrested? Spend a few years in a maximum security prison maybe? Would that give you your pound of flesh? I've never seen BBI this mean spirited before. But that's the internet for you. It's the place where people go to unleash their ugly side.
pretty sure I just said take his title away from him - I didn't say tar and feather the guy. The media is going out of the way to tell us the title doesn't mean anything that he isn't the problem and isn't a decision maker anymore so all I'm proposing is for his title to be changed to co-owner and we hire a true VP of Player Personnel if that's a true statement they are making. I'm pretty sure no one can complain about a guy who is a co-owner having a title of co-owner.
RE: Agree that there won’t be the public execution of all Mara family
IMO the problem isn’t just on Chris Mara or any one person, but rather having multiple factions within the org with at times competing agendas contributing to decisions
you are right, its not solely on Chris.
Its the combo of Chris, Tim and John all having a seat at the table.
pretty sure I just said take his title away from him - I didn't say tar and feather the guy. The media is going out of the way to tell us the title doesn't mean anything that he isn't the problem and isn't a decision maker anymore so all I'm proposing is for his title to be changed to co-owner and we hire a true VP of Player Personnel if that's a true statement they are making. I'm pretty sure no one can complain about a guy who is a co-owner having a title of co-owner.
I agree 100%. Until this happens, a rebuild can never truly take place.
He is busy with his horses and watching his daughters act and pops in a couple meetings with a few player evaluations. Seems the Giants are aware of the perception and are playing down his role. Tim may be the bigger problem.
Chris wanted to be GM. since that got kiboshed, ya think his drive just disappeared? More likely is that his role is meddling owner with an official voice in the room, or (not so likely) the power behind the throne. It is foolish to think he's just a Tisch with a nameplate on a door.
It could be the worst of all worlds: a rich guy who thinks he knows a lot, who thinks he has a real role, who has his brother believing in him, but who doesn't put in the hours, or suffer the consequences of being part of the clown show.
And it's hard to take seriously someone who consistently thinks Kevin Abraham is vice-GM
Chris Mara thing is what I cant understand. You have all the media members trying to convince the fan base that he is not the source of the problems, he has a voice at the table but he is no longer active in decision making, which I get. Maybe we don't know how much he does and maybe its true, I don't know. If what the media is saying is true, then I don't understand what the problem is in removing the title and just giving him a title of Co-Owner. If he isn't active as the the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel then he shouldn't have that title. Co-Owner is a title that gets you a seat at the table and a voice, Senior Vice President of Player Personnel should not be leaving drafts to go watch horse races.
This. And I think people are so vociferously defending him on these boards because they're recipients of nepotism IRL.
Let's just say it's true that he dabbles. That means he's coming in, going to the Senior Bowl, watching a few hours of tape,and then going into meetings (or via phone call) pounding the table for the 5-6 scrubs he noticed like Davis Webb.
He is busy with his horses and watching his daughters act and pops in a couple meetings with a few player evaluations. Seems the Giants are aware of the perception and are playing down his role. Tim may be the bigger problem.
Yeah, Tim is a growing problem, with the Kyle Rudolph signing and the organization trying to sell him as "bright" or what have you.
It is not hard to see that a new GM will know pretty much know what goes on inside the building. As Sy said, it is a pretty incestuous society. If you are not on the inside, you are not considered.
It is possible, if the shadow scouting dept is true, that it is known inside the NFL. So a GM candidate could simply say, that unless it stops, or works under his auspices, he will not take the job. Seems to have worked for getting Joe fired. It is also possible that Tisch has had enough. He has been quiet for years and has seen "his investment" sour. It is possible Tisch says that enough is enough and the family only gets one say at high levels within the org - John Mara - and that all others work under or for the GM.
It is not hard to see that a new GM will know pretty much know what goes on inside the building. As Sy said, it is a pretty incestuous society. If you are not on the inside, you are not considered.
It is possible, if the shadow scouting dept is true, that it is known inside the NFL. So a GM candidate could simply say, that unless it stops, or works under his auspices, he will not take the job. Seems to have worked for getting Joe fired. It is also possible that Tisch has had enough. He has been quiet for years and has seen "his investment" sour. It is possible Tisch says that enough is enough and the family only gets one say at high levels within the org - John Mara - and that all others work under or for the GM.
I'm surprised Tisch doesn't have some family member involved in the front office in some capacity like Chris and Tim.
Did Joe Schoen, the assistant GM of the Bills, have “full control” over anything at Buffalo, or was he a cog in the wheel?
What makes everyone want to distance themselves from a front office that has Super Bowls under their belt?
The foundation of those Super Bowls was built by George Young, then maintained and rebuilt by Ernie Accorsi before he handed off to Jerry Reese.
Members of the current front office had a negligible role in the construction of those teams, and have subsequently presided over the worst era of Giants football in four decades.
Wellington Mara didn't know how to build a football team in the 1970s. There's no reason to believe John or Chris know how to do it in the 2020s.
So, yes, I trust Joe Schoen more than I trust a bunch of people who only have their jobs because of which vagina they flew out of.
We know the W-L football side, but we don't know the financial/business side. As long as the business side is being run competently, the owners aren't going to be too distraught. From that perspective, Tisch is going to be more upset with Judge fired, than retained.
but I wouldn't lay any money down on it. If one of the top candidates says he can't work with an owner running part of the personnel dept, maybe it changes.
pretty sure I just said take his title away from him - I didn't say tar and feather the guy. The media is going out of the way to tell us the title doesn't mean anything that he isn't the problem and isn't a decision maker anymore so all I'm proposing is for his title to be changed to co-owner and we hire a true VP of Player Personnel if that's a true statement they are making. I'm pretty sure no one can complain about a guy who is a co-owner having a title of co-owner.
It is not hard to see that a new GM will know pretty much know what goes on inside the building. As Sy said, it is a pretty incestuous society. If you are not on the inside, you are not considered.
It is possible, if the shadow scouting dept is true, that it is known inside the NFL. So a GM candidate could simply say, that unless it stops, or works under his auspices, he will not take the job. Seems to have worked for getting Joe fired. It is also possible that Tisch has had enough. He has been quiet for years and has seen "his investment" sour. It is possible Tisch says that enough is enough and the family only gets one say at high levels within the org - John Mara - and that all others work under or for the GM.
I'm surprised Tisch doesn't have some family member involved in the front office in some capacity like Chris and Tim.
There is a Charles Tisch listed as a football ops assistant.
So, yes, I trust Joe Schoen more than I trust a bunch of people who only have their jobs because of which vagina they flew out of.
So with piece of intelligent posting, the other family owned teams are also condemned, i.e., Hunts, Rooneys, Bowles(?)
ok a case can be made for the McKaskeys
Maybe they're not condemned because they don't have a bunch of relatives with unspecified roles in the highest levels of their personnel department? The Steelers have twice since 1990 conducted thorough searches for their head of football operations - Tom Donahoe (along with Bill Cowher) rebuilt the franchise in the 90s, and Kevin Colbert subsequently modernized and maintained the department for the last 22 years.
The issue with the Giants is that they are not clear about what Chris Mara actually does. Some people say he has a minimal role in player personnel, so logically one would wonder why he holds the highest office in that department?
It's true you can't fire an owner, but you should be able to fire the SVP of Player Personnel.
RE: Agree that there won’t be the public execution of all Mara family
members that some are demanding. Chris Mara isn’t getting fired or pushed out anytime soon.
But I’d like to think they really are serious about doing an honest review of the org structure and decision making processes.
IMO the problem isn’t just on Chris Mara or any one person, but rather having multiple factions within the org with at times competing agendas contributing to decisions
pretty sure I just said take his title away from him - I didn't say tar and feather the guy. The media is going out of the way to tell us the title doesn't mean anything that he isn't the problem and isn't a decision maker anymore so all I'm proposing is for his title to be changed to co-owner and we hire a true VP of Player Personnel if that's a true statement they are making. I'm pretty sure no one can complain about a guy who is a co-owner having a title of co-owner.
Right, you want to rip his balls off and publicly emasculate him. We're not really so on board, some of us.
I'm pretty sure no one can complain about a guy who is a co-owner having a title of co-owner.
But why do you care what his title is?
I'm just saying if what the media says is true then there should be no objection changing his title, remove the doubt that the Mara's are making any final decisions on player personnel such that of what a Senior VP of Player Personnel would. If there truly is an objection to changing the title then that I take it that means his input carries more weight than just that of a co-owner.
I'm just saying if what the media says is true then there should be no objection changing his title, remove the doubt that the Mara's are making any final decisions on player personnel such that of what a Senior VP of Player Personnel would. If there truly is an objection to changing the title then that I take it that means his input carries more weight than just that of a co-owner.
Why does removing the title remove any doubt that the Mara's are making any final decisions on player personnel? They still own the team.
p.s.--And why shouldn't they have a say? It's their fucking team! If I'm the owner of an NFL team, you're damn right I'm gonna have a say in who is representing my team.
Chris Mara is Senior Vice President, Player Personnel
Why not have him arrested? Spend a few years in a maximum security prison maybe? Would that give you your pound of flesh? I've never seen BBI this mean spirited before. But that's the internet for you. It's the place where people go to unleash their ugly side.
What is so "mean-spirited" about questioning why an owner holds an SVP title in the personnel dept.? How the GM reports to the owners, but one of the owners "technically" reports to him? You don't see the conflict there?
The same people who claim he has no real power in the FO are the very same ones who claim that others have no idea what he does. Somehow though, they "know" he has no real power, as if people under him wouldn't rather keep him happy than the GM, because that is human nature.
Enjoy you’re bread & circus
To me this would truly signal the dawning of a new era and holy shit moment.
x1000
Is this asshat info?
Quote:
But Tim and Chris aren’t going anywhere. And Abraham will probably end up in another role or maybe back on cap.
Is this asshat info?
More so tea leaves. Chris and Tim are owners. They aren’t getting fired. It’s silly when people demand it.
Quote:
But Tim and Chris aren’t going anywhere. And Abraham will probably end up in another role or maybe back on cap.
Which is fine. Chris and Tim are deballed right now and I don't see either having much ass to throw around at the moment. DeFacto, I don't see either being a real problem. An Annoyance, maybe, but that's it.
That’s not wrong. People believe what they want. Chris Mara involvement is vastly overstated by people that don’t know anything. Even logic fails I. His case. That of a mid 60s millionaire that has passed the pinnacle of his career. A vanity title and a job where he works as much or as little as he feels like. Tim is most likely being groomed to run the franchise at some point. Most accounts are that he works hard and is fairly bright. Learning the business is probably in the best interests long term.
Tim is most likely being groomed to run the franchise at some point. Most accounts are that he works hard and is fairly bright. Learning the business is probably in the best interests long term.
I saw giant insider say this - but who knows. They have a source that strategically feeds them info and says oh by the way Tim is really bright - dunno what to believe here. Gore are they too really know. Has anyone spent real direct time with Tim to make their own evaluation? Could be true but has that propaganda feel to it.
But I’d like to think they really are serious about doing an honest review of the org structure and decision making processes.
IMO the problem isn’t just on Chris Mara or any one person, but rather having multiple factions within the org with at times competing agendas contributing to decisions
Probably correct George. If he was really heavily involved, he would not have skipped the draft to go to the Derby.
IMO the problem isn’t just on Chris Mara or any one person, but rather having multiple factions within the org with at times competing agendas contributing to decisions
you are right, its not solely on Chris.
Its the combo of Chris, Tim and John all having a seat at the table.
I agree 100%. Until this happens, a rebuild can never truly take place.
What makes everyone want to distance themselves from a front office that has Super Bowls under their belt?
It could be the worst of all worlds: a rich guy who thinks he knows a lot, who thinks he has a real role, who has his brother believing in him, but who doesn't put in the hours, or suffer the consequences of being part of the clown show.
And it's hard to take seriously someone who consistently thinks Kevin Abraham is vice-GM
This. And I think people are so vociferously defending him on these boards because they're recipients of nepotism IRL.
Let's just say it's true that he dabbles. That means he's coming in, going to the Senior Bowl, watching a few hours of tape,and then going into meetings (or via phone call) pounding the table for the 5-6 scrubs he noticed like Davis Webb.
Yeah, Tim is a growing problem, with the Kyle Rudolph signing and the organization trying to sell him as "bright" or what have you.
It is possible, if the shadow scouting dept is true, that it is known inside the NFL. So a GM candidate could simply say, that unless it stops, or works under his auspices, he will not take the job. Seems to have worked for getting Joe fired. It is also possible that Tisch has had enough. He has been quiet for years and has seen "his investment" sour. It is possible Tisch says that enough is enough and the family only gets one say at high levels within the org - John Mara - and that all others work under or for the GM.
It is possible, if the shadow scouting dept is true, that it is known inside the NFL. So a GM candidate could simply say, that unless it stops, or works under his auspices, he will not take the job. Seems to have worked for getting Joe fired. It is also possible that Tisch has had enough. He has been quiet for years and has seen "his investment" sour. It is possible Tisch says that enough is enough and the family only gets one say at high levels within the org - John Mara - and that all others work under or for the GM.
I'm surprised Tisch doesn't have some family member involved in the front office in some capacity like Chris and Tim.
What makes everyone want to distance themselves from a front office that has Super Bowls under their belt?
The foundation of those Super Bowls was built by George Young, then maintained and rebuilt by Ernie Accorsi before he handed off to Jerry Reese.
Members of the current front office had a negligible role in the construction of those teams, and have subsequently presided over the worst era of Giants football in four decades.
Wellington Mara didn't know how to build a football team in the 1970s. There's no reason to believe John or Chris know how to do it in the 2020s.
So, yes, I trust Joe Schoen more than I trust a bunch of people who only have their jobs because of which vagina they flew out of.
So, yes, I trust Joe Schoen more than I trust a bunch of people who only have their jobs because of which vagina they flew out of.
So with piece of intelligent posting, the other family owned teams are also condemned, i.e., Hunts, Rooneys, Bowles(?)
ok a case can be made for the McKaskeys
+1
Quote:
It is not hard to see that a new GM will know pretty much know what goes on inside the building. As Sy said, it is a pretty incestuous society. If you are not on the inside, you are not considered.
It is possible, if the shadow scouting dept is true, that it is known inside the NFL. So a GM candidate could simply say, that unless it stops, or works under his auspices, he will not take the job. Seems to have worked for getting Joe fired. It is also possible that Tisch has had enough. He has been quiet for years and has seen "his investment" sour. It is possible Tisch says that enough is enough and the family only gets one say at high levels within the org - John Mara - and that all others work under or for the GM.
I'm surprised Tisch doesn't have some family member involved in the front office in some capacity like Chris and Tim.
There is a Charles Tisch listed as a football ops assistant.
Quote:
So, yes, I trust Joe Schoen more than I trust a bunch of people who only have their jobs because of which vagina they flew out of.
So with piece of intelligent posting, the other family owned teams are also condemned, i.e., Hunts, Rooneys, Bowles(?)
ok a case can be made for the McKaskeys
Maybe they're not condemned because they don't have a bunch of relatives with unspecified roles in the highest levels of their personnel department? The Steelers have twice since 1990 conducted thorough searches for their head of football operations - Tom Donahoe (along with Bill Cowher) rebuilt the franchise in the 90s, and Kevin Colbert subsequently modernized and maintained the department for the last 22 years.
The issue with the Giants is that they are not clear about what Chris Mara actually does. Some people say he has a minimal role in player personnel, so logically one would wonder why he holds the highest office in that department?
It's true you can't fire an owner, but you should be able to fire the SVP of Player Personnel.
But I’d like to think they really are serious about doing an honest review of the org structure and decision making processes.
IMO the problem isn’t just on Chris Mara or any one person, but rather having multiple factions within the org with at times competing agendas contributing to decisions
Quote:
So, yes, I trust Joe Schoen more than I trust a bunch of people who only have their jobs because of which vagina they flew out of.
So with piece of intelligent posting, the other family owned teams are also condemned, i.e., Hunts, Rooneys, Bowles(?)
ok a case can be made for the McKaskeys
Its not that you can't win with a family owned structure.
But if you continue to lose and keep doing the same thing, the results are predictable.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure no one can complain about a guy who is a co-owner having a title of co-owner.
But why do you care what his title is?
I'm just saying if what the media says is true then there should be no objection changing his title, remove the doubt that the Mara's are making any final decisions on player personnel such that of what a Senior VP of Player Personnel would. If there truly is an objection to changing the title then that I take it that means his input carries more weight than just that of a co-owner.
p.s.--And why shouldn't they have a say? It's their fucking team! If I'm the owner of an NFL team, you're damn right I'm gonna have a say in who is representing my team.
What is so "mean-spirited" about questioning why an owner holds an SVP title in the personnel dept.? How the GM reports to the owners, but one of the owners "technically" reports to him? You don't see the conflict there?
The same people who claim he has no real power in the FO are the very same ones who claim that others have no idea what he does. Somehow though, they "know" he has no real power, as if people under him wouldn't rather keep him happy than the GM, because that is human nature.