Free of the Curse of Dave Gettleman

In comment 15547973 christian said:

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On a personal note, I’ll always be reminded to be more careful and humble when facing my own failures. I’ve never once observed someone who made me question whether I wanted to root for a favorite team of mine until he took over.

What failures?

In comment 15547965 Go Terps said:

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It's going to take a couple years to completely get the stink out. His removal and replacement by someone that actually knows what year it is will be the single most positive development of this offseason.

The sooner the new GM can clear out ALL of his detritus, the better off we'll be. And I do mean ALL. The baby, the bathwater, the kitchen sink... everything. He left us with no keepers, it's going to be clear to everyone at some point.

the dark ages will continue until everyone is gone.

I hope I'm wrong...but I just think the reality of it is that these 3 guys are wielding power they shouldn't have and have been every bit of a disaster as the guy at the top.

If the new GM with this "ultimate" power doesn't get rid of them...I got questions - serious questions.

As far as I'm concerned, there's literally no reason for why Chris Petit should still have a job.

I was fine with the hire due to DG's reputation as someone who can divorce emotion from facts. I thought he was going to build the OL again, regardless of his decision on Eli. I also thought he would be able to analyze Eli and the rest of the roster properly. I was pretty much immediately disproven there.

I was concerned after the Ogletree trade, I thought that was dumb. The Solder signing and Barkley pick had me worried. I thought the roster sucked but it seemed Gettleman was going for it. He should have been fired after year one once his analysis of the roster was so poor. How can you trust someone to get it right if he was so wrong on that team (which I thought was so obviously going to be bad)?

Barkley Jones Solder Baker Toney Golloday Omameh Beckham JPP Stewart Benjamin Shurmur Judge etc. Disaster.

Half of BBI could have done a better job.

In a league that is designed to help struggling teams via the draft order and free agency/salary caps, it is really hard to stay bad for an extended period of time. Yet Gettleman found a way to keep the Giants in the cellar.

On top of being a disaster, he was a misogynist arrogant schmuck to reporters. And even in his goodbye letter, he refused to own up for his mistakes and role in the Giants going backwards.

Good riddance.

"DAMN, MY FANTASY TEAM LOST AGAIN YESTERDAY"

his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried.

In comment 15548238 JonC said:

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his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried.

DG had peak boomer mindset (ignorance, arrogance, pride in his ignorance, etc.). It's why he had so many supporters here early on.

In comment 15548150 NoGainDayne said:

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all have a good chuckle about Resume. And the people that somehow thought he was going to do well. The oddest part about that upon reflection was the insistence that you can’t hold it against someone that they were fired. The team was bad, but each year he wasn’t fired (the last two mainly) a little piece of my enthusiasm for the team died. Not until Joe Judge topped him in some ways recently have I ever seen someone that was so skilled at making it apparent they had no idea what they were doing at their job. I tend to agree with the people that say you shouldn’t worry about press conferences but the ones DG held frequently confirmed and even highlighted the personality and analysis flaws that were readily apparent in the results already. Sometimes flaunting them. It underscored a culture so rotten that I’m sure it was probably even hard to play for the team than watch. My antennas will now forever be up for people that excessively talk about culture. Acknowledging the importance is normal, the extent the Giants talked about it as if it was something that could be achieved with a hack saw and a self important / authoritarian attitude at the top is probably just as big of a mistake as any of the individual choices. Good cultures are guided / supported at the top and mainly carried by diffusion and shared purpose too to bottom. Not commanded from a throne and bragged about. I hope I never have to be anywhere near attitudes like this again. And I hope the Mara’s are now serious about rooting this out. I fear DG and JJ mimicked the feelings of their bosses and this is why I can only be cautiously optimistic right now but a GM and head coach completely on the same page, brought in at the same time, paddling together is the best chance we’ve had in a long time.

DG and JJ had a poor relationship with facts and data. It was highly concerning. Reese was a bit awkward and sometimes overly defensive in front of the cameras but I don't recall him ever sounding stupid.

had he simply retired after his Carolina tenure and gone to ESPN like Mike Tannenbaum he'd probably be considered a popular talking head who knew football. Now he's in the Matt Millen category of executives

In comment 15548205 JonC said:

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but you've got to remove him and get a new GM in there to dig into it, figure it out and make changes. Scouting failures are a huge red button issue here, and more changes will be coming. The good news is there's no cap space to do more UFA damage this Winter. I'm really curious to see if they bite the bullet and let some of the pricey under-performing veterans go to accelerate some of the pain. They might be forced to given less than $5M cap space available.

Mentioned this earlier.

Will absolutely need to create some extra cap space as will need to put an experienced body on the OL and probably at QB this year if they aren't drafting one. Not high priced as something middle of the road will do, but still need some space.

So the smart play is to figure out which guys on the Defense are the most easily replaceable positions with the highest cap allocation. Not sure anybody on the offense has much value.

Take your dead hit with 1-2 guys, and get yourself some wiggle room...

In comment 15548218 Dnew15 said:

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the dark ages will continue until everyone is gone. I hope I'm wrong...but I just think the reality of it is that these 3 guys are wielding power they shouldn't have and have been every bit of a disaster as the guy at the top. If the new GM with this "ultimate" power doesn't get rid of them...I got questions - serious questions. As far as I'm concerned, there's literally no reason for why Chris Petit should still have a job.

Mara said he wanted a GM to run the entire football operations, and listed scouts, coaches, etc. Everything football. If he actually means that then everyone in the building should be polishing up their resume.

I don't think the GM can oust Chris, but my hope is he can further neutralize him to a person in title only.

Then real progress is underway. Finally.

I agree DG was symbolic of all that was wrong at Jints Central - there was even glaring nepotism in the hire and hiring process of DG.

Let's hope the new GM is really given the freedom to bring the Giants up to the new NFL standards and practices of player scouting and development leaving the old ways (finally) behind.

Barkley is off the roster.

Look at the diverse set of candidates under consideration today, and compare it to the sham search in 2017.

BW was 100% right — it was classic Giants Way thinking. Hire the old GM to recommend interviewing all the greatest hits. Then ultimately hire the old pal.

I’m so glad we don’t ever have to hear how unfair of a shake he got in Carolina, how progressive his approach is, and how great he drafted in 2018, again.

was not just a bad GM for the Giants, but close to the bottom of bad historically. Not only did he screw four years, he also screwed a year in advance as 2022 looks to be a bloodbath with a skill/cost ratio as low as has been seen in a long time. He should have been let go two years ago based on that Solder contract alone.

In comment 15548261 Jimmy Googs said:

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Will absolutely need to create some extra cap space as will need to put an experienced body on the OL and probably at QB this year if they aren't drafting one. Not high priced as something middle of the road will do, but still need some space.

I’ll do a comprehensive cap thread later in the week, but I’m a nerd and keep a list of reporting on contracts that don’t show up in the cap sites always.

Long story short there are some surprises good and bad on the balance sheet, but getting clean is only going to take a year.

have no bonus money left after 2022, there figure to be big cuts a year from now.

In comment 15548286 christian said:

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Look at the diverse set of candidates under consideration today, and compare it to the sham search in 2017. BW was 100% right — it was classic Giants Way thinking. Hire the old GM to recommend interviewing all the greatest hits. Then ultimately hire the old pal. I’m so glad we don’t ever have to hear how unfair of a shake he got in Carolina, how progressive his approach is, and how great he drafted in 2018, again.

Great thread from back in early 2018 season, questioning whether fans are concerned DG was the wrong hire.

All the usual critics and defenders making their cases...

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=572832&show_all=1

That he had his head stuck up his ass and was into oldtime football.

I did think there was a shade of possibility to be respectable this year or next IF he was correct because he finally nailed some FA's the prior year in Bradberry and Martinez.

And I loved the tradedown and many on here were so positive on the 1st round draft pick.

But all it took was two crummy injuries to Gates and Martinez only to see he had nothing. He built nothing.

In comment 15548298 christian said:

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In comment 15548261 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Will absolutely need to create some extra cap space as will need to put an experienced body on the OL and probably at QB this year if they aren't drafting one. Not high priced as something middle of the road will do, but still need some space. I’ll do a comprehensive cap thread later in the week, but I’m a nerd and keep a list of reporting on contracts that don’t show up in the cap sites always. Long story short there are some surprises good and bad on the balance sheet, but getting clean is only going to take a year.

Thx, look forward to going thru it.

I recall a lot will be amortized off heading into 2023, but as mentioned Giants need to find some cap space in 2022. So hoping something can be done within reason...

On the Mount Rushmore of worst GM tenures in league history. That's not hyperbole either, pretty sure he's only behind Matt Millen in win percentage. Unlike Millen, Gettleman emptied the clip in free agent spend as well.

Gettleman was likely a poor fit at the top of an organization for any era. But at his advanced age in an era of accelerated change with a stubborn and arrogant personality? Brutal recipe for disaster.

Some additional changes need to be made, I am hoping the new GM brings in his people but I am just happy it's behind us. For the first time in about a decade it looks like the Giants are following a sound process with a cohesive plan. It's not a guarantee for success but at least they're not drawing dead anymore.

Always great to see how consistently and aggressively wrong FMiC was. Although he was more polite than usual on that one.

Agree with some of the posters above that it was hard to root for the Giants with Gettleman at the helm. Lack of professionalism, complete rejection of any information from after the 80s, utter lack of understanding of details.

There are just basic things that people in charge of a team or an organization need to do. They need to be able to communicate in a professional manner. They need to be learning. They need to be humble and review their own decisions and priors. They need to have command of details.

Gettleman had none of that. It's just so hard to get behind these fundamental failures of basic leadership principles. I mean, guys make mistakes all the time. Draft picks don't work out. Guys get hurt. Teams get unlucky on the field. This wasn't that. This was a failure of basic competence. This was being lazy, arrogant, impulsive, and rude.

I've supported bad teams in the past and will continue to do. That's part of being a sports fan. But it was hard - almost impossible - to support THIS.

In comment 15548487 Jerry in_DC said:

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Always great to see how consistently and aggressively wrong FMiC was. Although he was more polite than usual on that one. Agree with some of the posters above that it was hard to root for the Giants with Gettleman at the helm. Lack of professionalism, complete rejection of any information from after the 80s, utter lack of understanding of details. There are just basic things that people in charge of a team or an organization need to do. They need to be able to communicate in a professional manner. They need to be learning. They need to be humble and review their own decisions and priors. They need to have command of details. Gettleman had none of that. It's just so hard to get behind these fundamental failures of basic leadership principles. I mean, guys make mistakes all the time. Draft picks don't work out. Guys get hurt. Teams get unlucky on the field. This wasn't that. This was a failure of basic competence. This was being lazy, arrogant, impulsive, and rude. I've supported bad teams in the past and will continue to do. That's part of being a sports fan. But it was hard - almost impossible - to support THIS.

Can you imagine working for someone like DG? It would be a disaster.

now let's go win again.

...it is hard to imagine what it's like. There are good ways to make an incompetent boss look good. That can help your career, but tends to require that there are adults higher up on the org chart.

If there are any smart, diligent employees at Giants HQ, I'm sure they were de-motivated, disillusioned, and immensely frustrated.

In comment 15548238 JonC said:

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his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried.

Yeah, you Gen X'rs and Gen Z's just sit down and throw tantrums like our not dearly departed HC when things go sour.

JFC, ageism anyone.

In comment 15548404 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15548286 christian said: Quote: Look at the diverse set of candidates under consideration today, and compare it to the sham search in 2017. BW was 100% right — it was classic Giants Way thinking. Hire the old GM to recommend interviewing all the greatest hits. Then ultimately hire the old pal. I’m so glad we don’t ever have to hear how unfair of a shake he got in Carolina, how progressive his approach is, and how great he drafted in 2018, again. Great thread from back in early 2018 season, questioning whether fans are concerned DG was the wrong hire. All the usual critics and defenders making their cases... https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=572832&show_all=1

verrrrry interesting comments from some BBIers in that thread.

Oy, bw and Terps were right. Let’s hope optimism is the right take from now onwards.

In comment 15548531 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 15548238 JonC said: Quote: his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried. Yeah, you Gen X'rs and Gen Z's just sit down and throw tantrums like our not dearly departed HC when things go sour. JFC, ageism anyone.

Too old! Buh bye!

In comment 15548597 JonC said:

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In comment 15548531 HomerJones45 said: Quote: In comment 15548238 JonC said: Quote: his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried. Yeah, you Gen X'rs and Gen Z's just sit down and throw tantrums like our not dearly departed HC when things go sour. JFC, ageism anyone. Too old! Buh bye!

Put everyone over 30 in a nursing home!

where a hire started out with buffoonery and ended that way.

4 years of buffoonery. Wire to wire. Has to be some kind of record.

If it didn't come with an arrogant and stubborn personality. He stopped learning decades ago.

Gettleman managed the team with the mental acuity of a two year old.

Rereading that old thread posted above gives me a sense of how bad my PTSD is from these past four years.

from beginning to end of his GM tenure and not see his age was an issue. It affected his entire approach, attitude, treatment of the media, etc. Outdated, childish, petty, cantankerous, the list is long is plain to see.

At one point in time, he was reportedly a sound contributor to the UFAs brought in 15+ years ago. That part of DG was no longer present either, he was just handing out blank checks.

In comment 15548661 JonC said:

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from beginning to end of his GM tenure and not see his age was an issue. It affected his entire approach, attitude, treatment of the media, etc. Outdated, childish, petty, cantankerous, the list is long is plain to see. At one point in time, he was reportedly a sound contributor to the UFAs brought in 15+ years ago. That part of DG was no longer present either, he was just handing out blank checks.

Absolutely was. No question.

I’ve worked with plenty of people who are/were powerhouses into their 60s and 70s.

The key quality I’ve noticed with these folks is an acute ability to listen and not get obsessed with who they once were or how things once were.

Dave Gettleman was so busy making out with his old self in the mirror, he couldn’t be bothered to see that his current self devolved into a total mess.

Absolutely, my boss is in his late 60s and still highly effective because he pays attention, listens, stays engaged, humbly acknowledges his attributes and how age plays a part moving fwd, etc. I know a number of BBIers 65+ who are razor sharp, as well as work colleagues.

But, DG is well past his allotted time as an NFL pro, imo.

he came into the job with a 'look at me' conquering hero personality and viewed getting this job as if he was owed it after getting passed over in favor of Reese.

If a player acted with this sense of superiority and selfishness he would get blasted for it.

Every move was made with the assumption it was correct and would work out. There was no humility whatsoever. And not even a shred of a thought to "what if this doesn't work?"

I think Stewart hasn't lost anything. Clownery.

I'm handing a in-decline tackle top of the league money out of desperation - what could go wrong?

I'm an old school football guy that's going to draft a RB #2 overall without an OL to block for him. - what "old school" football man does this?

Terps and bw were right on it after DG's first season. The die was cast and never really ascended at all, four years torched and wasted.

About the “Assholes need not apply” desk sign tells you all you need to know really. There was a total lack of self-awareness with Gettlemen.

The aggressive stubborn buffoonery that was allowed to go unchecked for four years makes you wonder exactly what Mara was listening to and approving of on a day to day basis.

In comment 15548714 JonC said:

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But, DG is well past his allotted time as an NFL pro, imo.

Exactly. I imagine the end of your career is a lot like the beginning. Lots of listening, alliance building, and trusting goes a long way. Whereas self importance, assumptions, and ego do not.

every good leader I know wants to learn. There is a reason that Buffet, Gates etc. spend a lot of their time reading.

The Giants biggest problem is they as a whole seem to overrate their knowledge by an extreme margin. And when faced with the possibility that they may not have things figured out seem to double down on their egos instead of actually facing the idea that maybe they should learn as much as they can about what they might not be doing well.

he sucked. Leave it at that.

as DG's performance as GM was rungs below his stint as part of pro personnel. Older people tend to get sick, slow down, perform below past markers, et al. I'm approaching 52 and can confirm age can be a factor. Disagree? Debate the point, I won't shut up especially for those who can't see the forest for the trees.

was being hired or considered, made by someone who had been in the building years earlier? It said that, alone amongst NY Giant front office folks, DG made underlings call him "Mr. Gettleman," NEVER "Dave." Would correct anyone who strayed. Small thing, probably petty but it did seem too odd to be fabricated, and definitely hinted at DG's fragile ego and unwillingness to let go of earlier conventions. Always stuck with me for some reason.

In comment 15548404 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15548286 christian said: Quote: Look at the diverse set of candidates under consideration today, and compare it to the sham search in 2017. BW was 100% right — it was classic Giants Way thinking. Hire the old GM to recommend interviewing all the greatest hits. Then ultimately hire the old pal. I’m so glad we don’t ever have to hear how unfair of a shake he got in Carolina, how progressive his approach is, and how great he drafted in 2018, again. Great thread from back in early 2018 season, questioning whether fans are concerned DG was the wrong hire. All the usual critics and defenders making their cases... https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=572832&show_all=1

Holy crap, Gettleman made so many horrible moves that it's impossible to remember each and every one of them. I completely forgot all about Ogletree!

Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.

It's just been a disaster.

Why Gettleman shouldn't be fired...


https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=591715&show_all=1

In comment 15552016 Jimmy Googs said:

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Why Gettleman shouldn't be fired... https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=591715&show_all=1

That’s a rough one. I had to re-read a number of posts to make sure they weren’t sarcasm.