Free of the Curse of Dave Gettleman

It's going to take a couple years to completely get the stink out. His removal and replacement by someone that actually knows what year it is will be the single most positive development of this offseason.

On a personal note, I’ll always be reminded to be more careful and humble when facing my own failures.

I’ve never once observed someone who made me question whether I wanted to root for a favorite team of mine until he took over.

but I never would have predicted the incompetence displayed during his tenure. I figured he would at least be decent.

In comment 15547975 bceagle05 said:

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but I never would have predicted the incompetence displayed during his tenure. I figured he would at least be decent.

I get the sense he figured he just knew better, and never tried to do better.

But hardly anything he did worked. Maybe the Bradberry signing. Got the better end of the Beckham trade, I guess. But it was an remarkable string of failures. It was a face-plant. It’s hard to be that bad. Perversely impressive.

In comment 15547992 81_Great_Dane said:

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But hardly anything he did worked. Maybe the Bradberry signing. Got the better end of the Beckham trade, I guess. But it was an remarkable string of failures. It was a face-plant. It’s hard to be that bad. Perversely impressive.

if he had just done nothing, kept the roster intact and used draft guides to decide who to pick he would have done better. he was an active failure.

Felt much of his actions were HC driven.....getting stuck with system players of different coaches and his drafts were better than the previous grouping, imo.

But he did finally lose me with "we feel stronger about the OL than you guys do"

Definitely time to go....I hope this site give whoever some slack....its not an exact science....we must hit on the right coach and staff.

Also, we are finally free of the 10 year curse from previous Super Bowl victory

In comment 15547975 bceagle05 said:

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but I never would have predicted the incompetence displayed during his tenure. I figured he would at least be decent.

That fake search did it for me. It was telegraphed when they brought in Accorsi. They defaulted to a "Giants Way" candidate. It was lazy and arrogant by both and Accorsi.

But that was THE TIME to look inward by doing a truly comprehensive search and begin chopping down the "Giants Way". A missed opportunity that wasted four years.

And then all of this was compounded by the arrogance and unprofessional nature and conduct of Gettleman. He was an embarrassment from the start.

The examples are endless.

recovered yet?

Worst GM since Millen. You and I could have thrown darts at a board for the last 4 years and come up with better results.

Bisignano brought up a really good point on how tone deaf Gettleman and the Giants were up to the very end. How do you go on the field pregame with your family in some sort of celebration when the fans detest you and are out for blood? How aloof do you have to be?

That attitude permeated his entire tenure. He'll be known for Saquon, Jones and Leo Williams and his horrid record.

disaster...for sure.

But let's not pretend that the bad scouting, draft choices, FA moves, internal scouting, etc. began with DG.

He was NOT responsible for drafting Evan Engram, Eli Apple, Erik Flowers, Bobby Hart, Davis Webb, Odi, etc.

THe personnel decisions made by this team for a solid decade have been a disaster. There are still some members of the front office that have jobs that have been there for the duration of this fall into complete non-competitive football.

Until they are all gone - we are just rinsing and repeating the same BS "clean house" we've seen before.

In comment 15548104 Dnew15 said:

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disaster...for sure. But let's not pretend that the bad scouting, draft choices, FA moves, internal scouting, etc. began with DG. He was NOT responsible for drafting Evan Engram, Eli Apple, Erik Flowers, Bobby Hart, Davis Webb, Odi, etc. THe personnel decisions made by this team for a solid decade have been a disaster. There are still some members of the front office that have jobs that have been there for the duration of this fall into complete non-competitive football. Until they are all gone - we are just rinsing and repeating the same BS "clean house" we've seen before.

Since you listed that stream of bad players, let's take a look at how Getts tried to fix those mistakes. In most instances just continuing the stink or actually making them worse...

Evan Engram - Gettleman did basically nothing here in putting a more impactful receiving TE on roster. Engram only got worse, he passed on opportunities to move him at the trade deadline and he became a wasted salary.

Eli Apple - picked Beal in supplemental draft and then used mutliple picks to trade up for Baker. Both were disasters.

Erik Flowers - moved him to RT where he failed. Signed Solder to a mega deal at LT where he failed. Still looking for a competent RT and Swing Tackle.

Bobby Hart - was a 2015 7th round pick...does he even matter enough to list? Nevertheless, see above on continuing Tackle issues.

Davis Webb - replaced with Kyle Lauletta, need I say more?

Odi - Lorenzo Carter and Ximinies, need I say more?

So Mr. Resume didn't exactly shine now did he in fixing at least the problem players you chose...

Gettleman memories?

that DG was a mess - he was terrible..an unmitigated disaster was my term. At least Reece looked the part, DG's outwardly behavior was an embarrassment to this once proud franchise.

BUT...I don't think he acted alone in all these decisions. There are guilty parties with as much blood on their hands for these personnel decisions that still have jobs.

Until they are all also gone, I'm not buying the clean house, the demons are exercised, everything is awesome mindset some seem to have here.

In comment 15548100 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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Worst GM since Millen. You and I could have thrown darts at a board for the last 4 years and come up with better results. Bisignano brought up a really good point on how tone deaf Gettleman and the Giants were up to the very end. How do you go on the field pregame with your family in some sort of celebration when the fans detest you and are out for blood? How aloof do you have to be? That attitude permeated his entire tenure. He'll be known for Saquon, Jones and Leo Williams and his horrid record.

"How do you go on the field pregame with your family in some sort of celebration when the fans detest you and are out for blood? How aloof do you have to be?"

THIS ^ to the 10th power.

In comment 15548138 Jimmy Googs said:

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Gettleman memories?

The Ogletree trade is one of my personal favorites. Right off the bat showed he was inept.

all have a good chuckle about Resume. And the people that somehow thought he was going to do well. The oddest part about that upon reflection was the insistence that you can’t hold it against someone that they were fired.

The team was bad, but each year he wasn’t fired (the last two mainly) a little piece of my enthusiasm for the team died.

Not until Joe Judge topped him in some ways recently have I ever seen someone that was so skilled at making it apparent they had no idea what they were doing at their job. I tend to agree with the people that say you shouldn’t worry about press conferences but the ones DG held frequently confirmed and even highlighted the personality and analysis flaws that were readily apparent in the results already. Sometimes flaunting them.

It underscored a culture so rotten that I’m sure it was probably even hard to play for the team than watch. My antennas will now forever be up for people that excessively talk about culture. Acknowledging the importance is normal, the extent the Giants talked about it as if it was something that could be achieved with a hack saw and a self important / authoritarian attitude at the top is probably just as big of a mistake as any of the individual choices. Good cultures are guided / supported at the top and mainly carried by diffusion and shared purpose too to bottom. Not commanded from a throne and bragged about.

I hope I never have to be anywhere near attitudes like this again. And I hope the Mara’s are now serious about rooting this out. I fear DG and JJ mimicked the feelings of their bosses and this is why I can only be cautiously optimistic right now but a GM and head coach completely on the same page, brought in at the same time, paddling together is the best chance we’ve had in a long time.

In comment 15548138 Jimmy Googs said:

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Gettleman memories?

Of course.

I bet the sponsorship dude at Hackensack Meridean Health is the 2nd happiest person this is all over.

In comment 15548146 Poktown Pete said:

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In comment 15548100 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said: Quote: Worst GM since Millen. You and I could have thrown darts at a board for the last 4 years and come up with better results. Bisignano brought up a really good point on how tone deaf Gettleman and the Giants were up to the very end. How do you go on the field pregame with your family in some sort of celebration when the fans detest you and are out for blood? How aloof do you have to be? That attitude permeated his entire tenure. He'll be known for Saquon, Jones and Leo Williams and his horrid record. "How do you go on the field pregame with your family in some sort of celebration when the fans detest you and are out for blood? How aloof do you have to be?" THIS ^ to the 10th power.

That I don’t think was tone deaf. I think DG absolutely did like antagonizing his haters. And that was his final Giant middle finger

In comment 15548149 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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In comment 15548138 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Gettleman memories? The Ogletree trade is one of my personal favorites. Right off the bat showed he was inept.

The Kareem Martin signing is my favorite. At least Solder and Golladay are or were good players. Paying Martin that much remains incomprehensible to this day.

both DG and JJ are gone. My enthusiasm has returned and I'm looking forward to getting new leadership in place, and beginning the process of tearing the roster apart. 2022 figures to be another tough season, but hopefully the new GM will recognize it will be about taking the medicine and clearing the decks for 2023.

In comment 15548145 Dnew15 said:

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that DG was a mess - he was terrible..an unmitigated disaster was my term. At least Reece looked the part, DG's outwardly behavior was an embarrassment to this once proud franchise. BUT...I don't think he acted alone in all these decisions. There are guilty parties with as much blood on their hands for these personnel decisions that still have jobs. Until they are all also gone, I'm not buying the clean house, the demons are exercised, everything is awesome mindset some seem to have here.

No, he didn't act alone...but he is the GM. Have fun going on the witch hunt for everybody and their mother that weighed in with a bad opinion on a poor free agent signing or draft pick.

The GM drives the bus on all significant personnel decisions, and finding a competent one will make a difference.

Chris Mara 14 yrs in his FO role
Chris Petit 13 yrs in his FO role
TIm McDonnell 6 yrs in his FO role

All guys that got in after the foundation for the Eli/TC SB runs were set and had (I'm assuming) influential say in personnel decisions for the past 10 years.

DG wasn't making these calls in a vacuum.

In comment 15548154 christian said:

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In comment 15548138 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Gettleman memories? Of course. I bet the sponsorship dude at Hackensack Meridean Health is the 2nd happiest person this is all over.

haha, good call...

Or at least get over .500

In comment 15548163 JonC said:

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both DG and JJ are gone. My enthusiasm has returned and I'm looking forward to getting new leadership in place, and beginning the process of tearing the roster apart. 2022 figures to be another tough season, but hopefully the new GM will recognize it will be about taking the medicine and clearing the decks for 2023.

Me, too. I’ve been a diehard fan since the 80s and this December I was thinking at the back of my mind about a full divorce from the NFL.

Now let’s hire the right GM. Giants’ most important decision in a decade.

In comment 15548104 Dnew15 said:

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disaster...for sure. But let's not pretend that the bad scouting, draft choices, FA moves, internal scouting, etc. began with DG. He was NOT responsible for drafting Evan Engram, Eli Apple, Erik Flowers, Bobby Hart, Davis Webb, Odi, etc. THe personnel decisions made by this team for a solid decade have been a disaster. There are still some members of the front office that have jobs that have been there for the duration of this fall into complete non-competitive football. Until they are all gone - we are just rinsing and repeating the same BS "clean house" we've seen before.

Pre-DG isn't the point. The point is Mara had a chance to start fix those issues - some that you listed - after unceremoniously firing Reese and Mac. But he defaulted to his instincts and hired the absolute wrong person.

So the dark age just grew longer.

In comment 15548172 Dnew15 said:

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Chris Mara 14 yrs in his FO role Chris Petit 13 yrs in his FO role TIm McDonnell 6 yrs in his FO role All guys that got in after the foundation for the Eli/TC SB runs were set and had (I'm assuming) influential say in personnel decisions for the past 10 years. DG wasn't making these calls in a vacuum.

I hear you. They may suck at what they do to, or aren't really helpful/harmful either. Either way, logic suggests a better GM gets you a better future...

The new GM also want have to deal with propping up Weekend at Manning’s corpse and convincing himself that’s a good plan.

but you've got to remove him and get a new GM in there to dig into it, figure it out and make changes. Scouting failures are a huge red button issue here, and more changes will be coming.

The good news is there's no cap space to do more UFA damage this Winter. I'm really curious to see if they bite the bullet and let some of the pricey under-performing veterans go to accelerate some of the pain. They might be forced to given less than $5M cap space available.

In comment 15547973 christian said:

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On a personal note, I’ll always be reminded to be more careful and humble when facing my own failures. I’ve never once observed someone who made me question whether I wanted to root for a favorite team of mine until he took over.

What failures?

In comment 15547965 Go Terps said:

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It's going to take a couple years to completely get the stink out. His removal and replacement by someone that actually knows what year it is will be the single most positive development of this offseason.

The sooner the new GM can clear out ALL of his detritus, the better off we'll be. And I do mean ALL. The baby, the bathwater, the kitchen sink... everything. He left us with no keepers, it's going to be clear to everyone at some point.

the dark ages will continue until everyone is gone.

I hope I'm wrong...but I just think the reality of it is that these 3 guys are wielding power they shouldn't have and have been every bit of a disaster as the guy at the top.

If the new GM with this "ultimate" power doesn't get rid of them...I got questions - serious questions.

As far as I'm concerned, there's literally no reason for why Chris Petit should still have a job.

I was fine with the hire due to DG's reputation as someone who can divorce emotion from facts. I thought he was going to build the OL again, regardless of his decision on Eli. I also thought he would be able to analyze Eli and the rest of the roster properly. I was pretty much immediately disproven there.

I was concerned after the Ogletree trade, I thought that was dumb. The Solder signing and Barkley pick had me worried. I thought the roster sucked but it seemed Gettleman was going for it. He should have been fired after year one once his analysis of the roster was so poor. How can you trust someone to get it right if he was so wrong on that team (which I thought was so obviously going to be bad)?

Barkley Jones Solder Baker Toney Golloday Omameh Beckham JPP Stewart Benjamin Shurmur Judge etc. Disaster.

Half of BBI could have done a better job.

In a league that is designed to help struggling teams via the draft order and free agency/salary caps, it is really hard to stay bad for an extended period of time. Yet Gettleman found a way to keep the Giants in the cellar.

On top of being a disaster, he was a misogynist arrogant schmuck to reporters. And even in his goodbye letter, he refused to own up for his mistakes and role in the Giants going backwards.

Good riddance.

"DAMN, MY FANTASY TEAM LOST AGAIN YESTERDAY"

his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried.

In comment 15548238 JonC said:

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his health, a consistent pattern of making not just the wrong decisions but the worst decisions possible, refusing to modernize his approach, etc. The biggest decisions felt lazy and dismissive of facts. I think we'll find he was symbolic of the changes required, eg Pettit and Koncz should be worried.

DG had peak boomer mindset (ignorance, arrogance, pride in his ignorance, etc.). It's why he had so many supporters here early on.

In comment 15548150 NoGainDayne said:

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all have a good chuckle about Resume. And the people that somehow thought he was going to do well. The oddest part about that upon reflection was the insistence that you can’t hold it against someone that they were fired. The team was bad, but each year he wasn’t fired (the last two mainly) a little piece of my enthusiasm for the team died. Not until Joe Judge topped him in some ways recently have I ever seen someone that was so skilled at making it apparent they had no idea what they were doing at their job. I tend to agree with the people that say you shouldn’t worry about press conferences but the ones DG held frequently confirmed and even highlighted the personality and analysis flaws that were readily apparent in the results already. Sometimes flaunting them. It underscored a culture so rotten that I’m sure it was probably even hard to play for the team than watch. My antennas will now forever be up for people that excessively talk about culture. Acknowledging the importance is normal, the extent the Giants talked about it as if it was something that could be achieved with a hack saw and a self important / authoritarian attitude at the top is probably just as big of a mistake as any of the individual choices. Good cultures are guided / supported at the top and mainly carried by diffusion and shared purpose too to bottom. Not commanded from a throne and bragged about. I hope I never have to be anywhere near attitudes like this again. And I hope the Mara’s are now serious about rooting this out. I fear DG and JJ mimicked the feelings of their bosses and this is why I can only be cautiously optimistic right now but a GM and head coach completely on the same page, brought in at the same time, paddling together is the best chance we’ve had in a long time.

DG and JJ had a poor relationship with facts and data. It was highly concerning. Reese was a bit awkward and sometimes overly defensive in front of the cameras but I don't recall him ever sounding stupid.

had he simply retired after his Carolina tenure and gone to ESPN like Mike Tannenbaum he'd probably be considered a popular talking head who knew football. Now he's in the Matt Millen category of executives

In comment 15548205 JonC said:

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but you've got to remove him and get a new GM in there to dig into it, figure it out and make changes. Scouting failures are a huge red button issue here, and more changes will be coming. The good news is there's no cap space to do more UFA damage this Winter. I'm really curious to see if they bite the bullet and let some of the pricey under-performing veterans go to accelerate some of the pain. They might be forced to given less than $5M cap space available.

Mentioned this earlier.

Will absolutely need to create some extra cap space as will need to put an experienced body on the OL and probably at QB this year if they aren't drafting one. Not high priced as something middle of the road will do, but still need some space.

So the smart play is to figure out which guys on the Defense are the most easily replaceable positions with the highest cap allocation. Not sure anybody on the offense has much value.

Take your dead hit with 1-2 guys, and get yourself some wiggle room...

In comment 15548218 Dnew15 said:

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the dark ages will continue until everyone is gone. I hope I'm wrong...but I just think the reality of it is that these 3 guys are wielding power they shouldn't have and have been every bit of a disaster as the guy at the top. If the new GM with this "ultimate" power doesn't get rid of them...I got questions - serious questions. As far as I'm concerned, there's literally no reason for why Chris Petit should still have a job.

Mara said he wanted a GM to run the entire football operations, and listed scouts, coaches, etc. Everything football. If he actually means that then everyone in the building should be polishing up their resume.

I don't think the GM can oust Chris, but my hope is he can further neutralize him to a person in title only.

Then real progress is underway. Finally.

I agree DG was symbolic of all that was wrong at Jints Central - there was even glaring nepotism in the hire and hiring process of DG.

Let's hope the new GM is really given the freedom to bring the Giants up to the new NFL standards and practices of player scouting and development leaving the old ways (finally) behind.

Barkley is off the roster.

Look at the diverse set of candidates under consideration today, and compare it to the sham search in 2017.

BW was 100% right — it was classic Giants Way thinking. Hire the old GM to recommend interviewing all the greatest hits. Then ultimately hire the old pal.

I’m so glad we don’t ever have to hear how unfair of a shake he got in Carolina, how progressive his approach is, and how great he drafted in 2018, again.

was not just a bad GM for the Giants, but close to the bottom of bad historically. Not only did he screw four years, he also screwed a year in advance as 2022 looks to be a bloodbath with a skill/cost ratio as low as has been seen in a long time. He should have been let go two years ago based on that Solder contract alone.

In comment 15548261 Jimmy Googs said:

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Will absolutely need to create some extra cap space as will need to put an experienced body on the OL and probably at QB this year if they aren't drafting one. Not high priced as something middle of the road will do, but still need some space.

I’ll do a comprehensive cap thread later in the week, but I’m a nerd and keep a list of reporting on contracts that don’t show up in the cap sites always.

Long story short there are some surprises good and bad on the balance sheet, but getting clean is only going to take a year.

have no bonus money left after 2022, there figure to be big cuts a year from now.

In comment 15548286 christian said:

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Look at the diverse set of candidates under consideration today, and compare it to the sham search in 2017. BW was 100% right — it was classic Giants Way thinking. Hire the old GM to recommend interviewing all the greatest hits. Then ultimately hire the old pal. I’m so glad we don’t ever have to hear how unfair of a shake he got in Carolina, how progressive his approach is, and how great he drafted in 2018, again.

Great thread from back in early 2018 season, questioning whether fans are concerned DG was the wrong hire.

All the usual critics and defenders making their cases...

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=572832&show_all=1

That he had his head stuck up his ass and was into oldtime football.

I did think there was a shade of possibility to be respectable this year or next IF he was correct because he finally nailed some FA's the prior year in Bradberry and Martinez.

And I loved the tradedown and many on here were so positive on the 1st round draft pick.

But all it took was two crummy injuries to Gates and Martinez only to see he had nothing. He built nothing.