“It was like he gave up,” said one source familiar with the Giants’ situation. “It was like he threw up his hands and said ‘I can’t work with this personnel.’ He’s not wrong. The team he has is terrible. But what coach does that?”
“It was like he gave up,” said one source familiar with the Giants’ situation. “It was like he threw up his hands and said ‘I can’t work with this personnel.’ He’s not wrong. The team he has is terrible. But what coach does that?”
That quote correlates to the 3rd and 9 QB sneak. He didn't even give the offense a chance.
Was very animated about Abrams being a GM candidate were Judge to stay. He knew the situation he has had and how the team wasn't going to improve at all if Mara promoted him.
I feel like the move needed done, while also firmly believing Joe got a raw deal. Slate swept clean now, and they need to make it right. Hopefully Mara stays out of the way.
Has one bad play call ever contributed this much to a coaches demise?
That seems to be the point of no return for him, for good reason
that was just the final straw. the loony 11 minute rant, the kick ass culture baloney, lack of player development/improvement et al. Everything shows itself eventually. He showed that the job was too big for him.
RE: Has one bad play call ever contributed this much to a coaches demise?
That seems to be the point of no return for him, for good reason
I was telling a friend the other night that I honestly believe Judge would still be here if not for that sequence. On the sideline after the 2nd sneak, there was a shot of Judge saying "c'mon man," or something to that effect. I really want to hear more about who the hell made that call and whether Judge was mad about it - or what happened for that to happen. It's mind boggling.
but this idea that Judge was saddled with a bad roster makes no sense. Judge clearly had a hand in the construction. The Giants spent a ton of money this offseason, they signed VET Olmen as pieces to the puzzle who decided that quitting / retiring was better than playing for Judge.
Judge lost this team with his poor in game strategy- long before we were on QB 3 and for his idiotic PC's that always seem to come from a stance of you the listener are uneducated in football and let me tell you why what you see is not really what you should be looking at. he came off as a guy who NEVER sees blame in himself, even when he says things like the Fish stinks from the head down, that is more telling you he holds himself to a higher degree than we do so don't question him.
I have NEVER soured on someone as much as I did Judge. His talk in the beginning, which is all we get with any new coach, was inspiring and was very directive, very confident and full of strong conviction, quickly became a sales pitch for an inferior product or worse a scam of a product that never really existed. He would have been great back in the 90's informercial days!
The play call is all about perception - give the RB the ball and none of that is talked about. The problem is it came a week after his rant, which was the bigger issue.
As many others have said, you don't disparage others in your profession in public. That makes the organization look bad.
Losing on the field is one thing, putting a target on the organization publicly is different.
"Several of the GM candidates had asked Mara and Tisch if they were going to be forced to keep Judge before they agreed to an interview, according to NFL sources. They were told they weren’t, but maybe the owners saw the writing on the wall."
I don't think it was one bad play and I believe most won't either
(btw wasn't it TWO QB sneaks in a row?). It was the not winning and then these last FEW weeks, not even being competitive. You can say all you want about Glennon sucking, but we didn't have a game plan going into any of the games he started, that seemed like it was well thought out. When the weak game play didn't work we immediately abandoned it and went to a 'lets hope the defense scores' game plan. It was ridiculous. It felt like that from the Dolphins game on. I don't know how we score 21 against the Chargers(maybe they need a new HC as well). His rant added to the snowball. But there wasn't even progress from individual players. For a guy who preached teaching, it didn't seem like that was done. An OL that could NOT put together consecutive positive plays let alone positive series no matter WHO started. Like they said on GMFB, when the tough guy coaches go bad they go bad QUICKLY.
Call, letting him go, but he was dealt a bad hand here.
Last year he handled an extreme situation well, this year as thing spiraled toward futility he had no answers, don’t think there were any; those situations can lead to episode’s you regret, doesn’t mean the guy cannot coach.
But coaching for his career next season on a trial basis would not have been the way to go
Yes Judge was saddled with a horrible roster and injuries
But if the team had lost the way they lost the last 6 games he could have easily survived this. Mara was looking for a reason to keep him, and the roster and injuries gave him some cover. Everything could be laid at the feet of Gettleman.
Why Judge lost his job was his classless attacks against WFT and Shurmur, combined with him essentially quitting against the Bears and WFT in the last two weeks. He took a bad situation and turned it into an embarrassing situation. He did not need to do those things and nobody forced them on him.
He is young and will have a chance to rebuild his career, but he needs to start by realizing he lost his job in the last two weeks of the season by essentially showing no heart and no character.
But JJ's way to conservative approach and the unwillingness to acknowledge publicly what everyone else was seeing pretty much says it all.
Sadly for all of us, this is not a quick fix. Once again the Giants are in a tear it down and rebuild mode which means we will be lucky if they are competitive in the 2023 season, but more than likely it will be 2024 before we can think about winning. Awesome.
"Several of the GM candidates had asked Mara and Tisch if they were going to be forced to keep Judge before they agreed to an interview, according to NFL sources. They were told they weren’t, but maybe the owners saw the writing on the wall."
I actually posted this earlier this morning. Notice the words forced and before in that first sentence.
If true, and a majority of interesting candidates asked, this had to send a loud, serious message to Mara: we are not interested in what you are selling. So we'll look elsewhere instead...
“It was like he gave up,” said one source familiar with the Giants’ situation. “It was like he threw up his hands and said ‘I can’t work with this personnel.’ He’s not wrong. The team he has is terrible. But what coach does that?”
My main question here is, why all the punting past the 50 yard line? If you truly are done then why not try converting 4th downs in the opponents territory?
While it no longer matters, a lot of these reports don't add up for me.
It was Bad COACHING all around.
The Backup QB, that I'm sure he had say in, comes in and looks like he never played in the NFL. Meanwhile that same QB played reasonably well for a shit Jags team the year before. God awful play design and play calling did the team in along with crappy coaches over their head.
that the QB sneaks and the 10 min speech helped to cover up the fact that the personnel and structural disaster of the organization almost is getting a pass due to the focus on the coach now.
joe judge did not do a great job-- but really his impact was just on how ugly the losses looked, not the losses themselves.
the roster was crap--- he had every right to be disgusted by it-- the whole construct and approach of the GM was a disgrace and wrong from day 1 in 2018. and here we are--- gettleman is getting his quiet ride off because judge imploded himself
RE: RE: GM candidates asking about Judge's status before agreeing to interview
"Several of the GM candidates had asked Mara and Tisch if they were going to be forced to keep Judge before they agreed to an interview, according to NFL sources. They were told they weren’t, but maybe the owners saw the writing on the wall."
I actually posted this earlier this morning. Notice the words forced and before in that first sentence.
If true, and a majority of interesting candidates asked, this had to send a loud, serious message to Mara: we are not interested in what you are selling. So we'll look elsewhere instead...
If nothing else, hopefully this shows that Mara is actually listening.
A lot of us have been saying for a while that any worthwhile GM is going to consider whether or not he's inheriting a coach when making a decision about a job.
There isn't a single candidate outside of the building for whom Joe Judge would be considered a positive or even neutral factor in considering the Giants GM position. I'm certain it would have come up in conversations with any candidate, and if the Giants are serious about bringing in someone to oversee their entire football operation, Joe Judge couldn't have been part of the deal.
But JJ's way to conservative approach and the unwillingness to acknowledge publicly what everyone else was seeing pretty much says it all.
Sadly for all of us, this is not a quick fix. Once again the Giants are in a tear it down and rebuild mode which means we will be lucky if they are competitive in the 2023 season, but more than likely it will be 2024 before we can think about winning. Awesome.
Yes. We have to rebuild the rebuild. Hopefully acknowledging that is consistent throughout the franchise and we don't start applying band-aids.
has had two years as HC to make critical decisions on personnel. Gettleman was not a good GM and depth was terrible but he also was deferential to coaches to a fault.
Judge took Garrett on. If he didn't like that, he could have turned the HC job down from get-go.
This mentality "some" fans have to find excuses for everything and portray highly compensated athletes or coaches as victims of the Giants organization is a bit nauseating.
and he completely lost it... He may turn up somewhere, but it will be a very low percentage that he ever makes it to the HC ranks again, at least in the NFL...
That quote correlates to the 3rd and 9 QB sneak. He didn't even give the offense a chance.
They sure did........ "Go win with this guy we just off the Bills practice squad"
I feel like the move needed done, while also firmly believing Joe got a raw deal. Slate swept clean now, and they need to make it right. Hopefully Mara stays out of the way.
that was just the final straw. the loony 11 minute rant, the kick ass culture baloney, lack of player development/improvement et al. Everything shows itself eventually. He showed that the job was too big for him.
I was telling a friend the other night that I honestly believe Judge would still be here if not for that sequence. On the sideline after the 2nd sneak, there was a shot of Judge saying "c'mon man," or something to that effect. I really want to hear more about who the hell made that call and whether Judge was mad about it - or what happened for that to happen. It's mind boggling.
Umm, Joe Pisarcik botched attempt to hand off the football to Larry Csonka aka "the Fumble".
Judge lost this team with his poor in game strategy- long before we were on QB 3 and for his idiotic PC's that always seem to come from a stance of you the listener are uneducated in football and let me tell you why what you see is not really what you should be looking at. he came off as a guy who NEVER sees blame in himself, even when he says things like the Fish stinks from the head down, that is more telling you he holds himself to a higher degree than we do so don't question him.
I have NEVER soured on someone as much as I did Judge. His talk in the beginning, which is all we get with any new coach, was inspiring and was very directive, very confident and full of strong conviction, quickly became a sales pitch for an inferior product or worse a scam of a product that never really existed. He would have been great back in the 90's informercial days!
As many others have said, you don't disparage others in your profession in public. That makes the organization look bad.
Losing on the field is one thing, putting a target on the organization publicly is different.
He did bring this upon himself and he had to go
Jim zorn
Quote:
That seems to be the point of no return for him, for good reason
Umm, Joe Pisarcik botched attempt to hand off the football to Larry Csonka aka "the Fumble".
After Csonka told him to just keep it and fall on the ball...
"Several of the GM candidates had asked Mara and Tisch if they were going to be forced to keep Judge before they agreed to an interview, according to NFL sources. They were told they weren’t, but maybe the owners saw the writing on the wall."
Last year he handled an extreme situation well, this year as thing spiraled toward futility he had no answers, don’t think there were any; those situations can lead to episode’s you regret, doesn’t mean the guy cannot coach.
But coaching for his career next season on a trial basis would not have been the way to go
Why Judge lost his job was his classless attacks against WFT and Shurmur, combined with him essentially quitting against the Bears and WFT in the last two weeks. He took a bad situation and turned it into an embarrassing situation. He did not need to do those things and nobody forced them on him.
He is young and will have a chance to rebuild his career, but he needs to start by realizing he lost his job in the last two weeks of the season by essentially showing no heart and no character.
The mystery here isn't that the owners fired him after hearing it from GM's; the mystery is why wasn't this child shit-canned on Sunday night.
It's a factor, but there's a laundry list of failures.
Sadly for all of us, this is not a quick fix. Once again the Giants are in a tear it down and rebuild mode which means we will be lucky if they are competitive in the 2023 season, but more than likely it will be 2024 before we can think about winning. Awesome.
Ding, fucking ding!! Give this person a Nat Sherman cigar!
The record speaks for itself. 19-45. It's a .236 Win %. He was worse than Isaiah Thomas.
"Several of the GM candidates had asked Mara and Tisch if they were going to be forced to keep Judge before they agreed to an interview, according to NFL sources. They were told they weren’t, but maybe the owners saw the writing on the wall."
I actually posted this earlier this morning. Notice the words forced and before in that first sentence.
If true, and a majority of interesting candidates asked, this had to send a loud, serious message to Mara: we are not interested in what you are selling. So we'll look elsewhere instead...
My main question here is, why all the punting past the 50 yard line? If you truly are done then why not try converting 4th downs in the opponents territory?
While it no longer matters, a lot of these reports don't add up for me.
The Backup QB, that I'm sure he had say in, comes in and looks like he never played in the NFL. Meanwhile that same QB played reasonably well for a shit Jags team the year before. God awful play design and play calling did the team in along with crappy coaches over their head.
joe judge did not do a great job-- but really his impact was just on how ugly the losses looked, not the losses themselves.
the roster was crap--- he had every right to be disgusted by it-- the whole construct and approach of the GM was a disgrace and wrong from day 1 in 2018. and here we are--- gettleman is getting his quiet ride off because judge imploded himself
Quote:
No way Judge could be retained:
"Several of the GM candidates had asked Mara and Tisch if they were going to be forced to keep Judge before they agreed to an interview, according to NFL sources. They were told they weren’t, but maybe the owners saw the writing on the wall."
I actually posted this earlier this morning. Notice the words forced and before in that first sentence.
If true, and a majority of interesting candidates asked, this had to send a loud, serious message to Mara: we are not interested in what you are selling. So we'll look elsewhere instead...
If nothing else, hopefully this shows that Mara is actually listening.
A lot of us have been saying for a while that any worthwhile GM is going to consider whether or not he's inheriting a coach when making a decision about a job.
There isn't a single candidate outside of the building for whom Joe Judge would be considered a positive or even neutral factor in considering the Giants GM position. I'm certain it would have come up in conversations with any candidate, and if the Giants are serious about bringing in someone to oversee their entire football operation, Joe Judge couldn't have been part of the deal.
Sadly for all of us, this is not a quick fix. Once again the Giants are in a tear it down and rebuild mode which means we will be lucky if they are competitive in the 2023 season, but more than likely it will be 2024 before we can think about winning. Awesome.
Yes. We have to rebuild the rebuild. Hopefully acknowledging that is consistent throughout the franchise and we don't start applying band-aids.
Judge took Garrett on. If he didn't like that, he could have turned the HC job down from get-go.
This mentality "some" fans have to find excuses for everything and portray highly compensated athletes or coaches as victims of the Giants organization is a bit nauseating.