the book that started this Great War." Abraham Lincoln purportedly to Harriet Beecher Stowe (although many historians say it was never said).
In the annals of Giants history, the clown photograph I believe started the firing of Joe Judge.
People say internet message boards don't mean a thing. But, I do believe that the clownshow photograph somehow got to Judge and I think he reacted to it. If not for that photograph, I am not sure he makes that 11 minute rant where he specifically references "Clownshows" and contrasted it to the WFT and Shurmur's old regime. That 11 minute rant really embarrassed the organization and made the Mara's and Tisch's reexamine their beliefs. This was a fan revolt against an unqualified coach and I think it started here. I am not saying it would not have happened but for BBI, but a central location for fans to come to air their grievances and reporters and Giants officials know exists to get our temperature is very helpful in having a voice in shaping this organization.
So, congrats to Eric's daughter (I believe I read she was the one who made the photo) and Eric for running this site where fans can exchange ideas that lead to needed changes. We got the head clown out.
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”
Totally agree
Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.
Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
shit, judge even referenced [not] being a clown show organization in his bears post-game press conference.
Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.
Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
It is not the fans who read it that matters, though. It is the people in power who read it. Every beat reporter checks here and they are the ones who filter to the masses. It is also obvious that Giants employees are on here. Now, the question remains should an organization really take into account a fan message board and the answer is probably no. But, this was a fan revolt and I am convinced it started here.
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think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?
Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.
Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
It is not the fans who read it that matters, though. It is the people in power who read it. Every beat reporter checks here and they are the ones who filter to the masses. It is also obvious that Giants employees are on here. Now, the question remains should an organization really take into account a fan message board and the answer is probably no. But, this was a fan revolt and I am convinced it started here.
Good story if true, I'm just not convinced it's true.
And to be honest if it is true it doesn't give me more confidence in the decision makers, it gives me less confidence to believe they couldn't come to the right decision on their own, but required the nudging of anonymous fans on a message board.
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”
+1
No way he mentions "Clown show" otherwise.
And to echo what pj said, I can't tell you how many people I know that are die hard Giants fans that read about them all the time, and have never heard of BBI. I wouldn't doubt the Giants PR dept and the beat writers monitor it for story ideas and to get ahead of developing narratives, but this is not the leading voice of NYG fandom.
Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.
Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
I have the same experience, regarding other friends/acquaintances ... what the hell is BBI?
That said, it's a somewhat "known" entity, and we know from direct contact that Pat Hanlon (vice president of communications) not only knows about this site, but has engaged in communication at LEAST with Eric (again, at LEAST regarding the set-up and execution of the Giant of the Year trophy ceremonies - I met him at one, as did several others). Ralph Vacciano sitting at the bar with BBIers in Albany is another direct experience, indicating that these people absolutely at LEAST "take the temperature" of BBI occasionally.
I'm not saying this is one of those times. I'm saying based on what we know, factually? Very plausible that such a thing was seen/read and made even a small impact (possibly more).
And to echo what pj said, I can't tell you how many people I know that are die hard Giants fans that read about them all the time, and have never heard of BBI. I wouldn't doubt the Giants PR dept and the beat writers monitor it for story ideas and to get ahead of developing narratives, but this is not the leading voice of NYG fandom.
We already know that several read here.
Not even a question...
Didn't BBI have some direct communication with Hanlon in the past?
I could be mistaken I suppose.
I'm down with Mike from Ohio's test and bet it works. Words sweep through the public consciousness with surprising speed. One girl says "on fleek" in one video - boom, it's part of the vocabulary.
BBI is just one tool through which fans and others can (and as we know, do) connect on messages, opinions and yes, levels of anger.
Didn't BBI have some direct communication with Hanlon in the past?
I could be mistaken I suppose.
He was present at at least 2 of the Giants of the Year ceremonies I attended with my family. Met him at one. I believe it was for Jacobs. I believe he was present for the Plax ceremony, as well ... and quite possibly the Eli one (the three I attended).
Eric/Margi could verify, as they were in direct contact for the planning.
He's a Giants lifer, which is cool, and I would be shocked if he doesn't scour boards like BBI. He probably sees it as part of his job/life.
I would place some cash on the fact that Hanlon brought the BBI clown picture (which I loved) to the Giants as a whole. I would also bet that the players became aware of the picture.
Didn't BBI have some direct communication with Hanlon in the past?
I could be mistaken I suppose.
KNOWS IT!!! Eric and I (back in the day) had him on our BBI Online Live show multiple times. He arranged for us to interview Jerry Reese. He sure the heck knows BBI.
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”
Good analogy.
The Wikipedia thing happened after Eric posted his picture. It was absolutely the genesis of it all, Judge's comment just opened it up to the whole fanbase
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His own Wiki page had a picture of him as a clown for at least a day. I really don't think BBI is as influential as people seem to think it is.
The Wikipedia thing happened after Eric posted his picture. It was absolutely the genesis of it all, Judge's comment just opened it up to the whole fanbase
The term clown show is nothing new, even this year in the NFL. Skip Bayless called Carolina a clown show back in December. The Jaguar fans wore clown costumes to their final home game. Are they all reading BBI?
Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.
Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
Quote:
think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?
Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.
Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
It is not the fans who read it that matters, though. It is the people in power who read it. Every beat reporter checks here and they are the ones who filter to the masses. It is also obvious that Giants employees are on here. Now, the question remains should an organization really take into account a fan message board and the answer is probably no. But, this was a fan revolt and I am convinced it started here.
I agree with you Essex, I do believe the fan revolt was largely responsible for where we are.
The clown picture obviously hit home with FO and Judge since they responded to it.
While pjcas is right most Giant fans do not know about BBI. But you are right that the beats are here, Giant employees are here.
We are the die hards. We are the group that is going to represent their "best"/most loyal consumers.
If they want to get a good read on the overall fan base, then looking here is a good idea.
I believe BBI was at the tip of the spear of this fan revolt.
Probably countless examples on social media of other less known sites and people than BBI making a remark which some see and gain traction leading to major controversy and change.
Even before social media. No one expected the assassination of some insignificant to the world Duke or whatever his title was to cause World War 1.
People mocked me for the we need to get out our pitchforks comments but when the pitchforks game out they left their comfort zone 100%. The thing is for something to stick on BBI on catch on, you need to have a good argument. Sometimes you need to sustain it, for years. While not everyone knows about this place, a lot of the most passionate fans either read this or post here.
I do believe David Carr and Chris Bober signed the petition we had, at the very least Bober lol. Those aren't big enough names that someone would want to impersonate them.
Clearly there are insiders that post here and just like we get asshats I do believe that asshats carry information back to their sources as well. And I do believe this, if enough people can write off the critics of the world as fringe crazies the team is not going to take it seriously. When it's a narrative the average fan can adopt they will care.
And I do believe Eric switching over to a harsh critic was a big step. I do think he stays pretty balanced and he has every reason to stay in the good graces of the team.
I hope the job gets finished and Ty Siam, Koncz and Petit are shown the door. Then I can rest in full on optimism for a few years.
I do hope BBI has learned something overall though. The "in Reese we trust" the whole "they are an NFL team and they know more than you" etc. No one is unassailable. Anyone can have a lot of money, make a lot of money and still do a horrible job. Knowledge and experience are frequently trumped by a willingness to learn and innovate. Especially in today's world.
This is the biggest lesson I hope the Giants learned. DG WAS a top front office man at a time, the Giants WERE a top front office at a time. Those things are earned on an ongoing basis no coronated.
Never underestimate the power of a good meme.
So, I'm not saying people didn't see the BBI image, but calling what the Giants put on the field a clown show is probably just not a unique thought and it was probably circulating unaffiliated with BBI at a national level with more impact than BBI could have.
And to think a message board with what a few hundred active members and maybe a few thousand viewers forced a team to make significant change is not what I view as a good thing even if it's the right outcome. Also, I don't consider the few thousand BBI viewers the hard core fans when there are what 75,000 plus season ticket holders?
A quick Google search
This is from September, clearly before the BBI image:
this is from early December, also I believe before the BBI image.
From 12/29:
Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan is under more pressure than ever before - ( New Window )
Do I think BBI created a moment where a lot more people started to associate our ownership directly with clowns, yes.
I don't think it is just a coincidence that the topic started to come up for the first time and often by Giants leaders RIGHT after the picture.
Wasn't a day after, was a full week; photo was on the Eagles game story the week before the Bears game. That was enough time for the impact of the photo to percolate.
It was during that week that posters were popping up on BBI complaining about the photo and saying they would leave the site because of it.
There may have been other random clown references out there before that but I do tend to believe that it was the BBI photo that started the train that led to Judge's comment.
And once he said it to the whole world, the media was then all over it.