for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

The Power of BBI "So you are the little woman who wrote

Essex : 1/12/2022 9:42 am
the book that started this Great War." Abraham Lincoln purportedly to Harriet Beecher Stowe (although many historians say it was never said).

In the annals of Giants history, the clown photograph I believe started the firing of Joe Judge.

People say internet message boards don't mean a thing. But, I do believe that the clownshow photograph somehow got to Judge and I think he reacted to it. If not for that photograph, I am not sure he makes that 11 minute rant where he specifically references "Clownshows" and contrasted it to the WFT and Shurmur's old regime. That 11 minute rant really embarrassed the organization and made the Mara's and Tisch's reexamine their beliefs. This was a fan revolt against an unqualified coach and I think it started here. I am not saying it would not have happened but for BBI, but a central location for fans to come to air their grievances and reporters and Giants officials know exists to get our temperature is very helpful in having a voice in shaping this organization.

So, congrats to Eric's daughter (I believe I read she was the one who made the photo) and Eric for running this site where fans can exchange ideas that lead to needed changes. We got the head clown out.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2022 9:45 am : link
I am convinced the clown references here were seen or passed along by prominent people employed by the Giants.
Drawing a parallel from the past  
section302 : 1/12/2022 9:47 am : link
Clown show photo/11 minute rant = airplane banner
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”
"Clown Show was referenced or picked up by almost every media  
MartyNJ1969 : 1/12/2022 9:47 am : link
outlet since it appeared on BBI. It did help foster this change.
RE: Drawing a parallel from the past  
MartyNJ1969 : 1/12/2022 9:48 am : link
In comment 15548358 section302 said:
Quote:
Clown show photo/11 minute rant = airplane banner
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”



Totally agree
You really  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2022 9:49 am : link
think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?

Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.

Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
internet message boards and sites like twitter  
japanhead : 1/12/2022 9:51 am : link
have never been more impactful than in the current cultural moment. eric's daughter's picture was hilarious and spot on and i 100% believe it started the fire that burned judge out of the building.

shit, judge even referenced [not] being a clown show organization in his bears post-game press conference.
RE: You really  
Essex : 1/12/2022 9:52 am : link
In comment 15548367 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?

Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.

Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.

It is not the fans who read it that matters, though. It is the people in power who read it. Every beat reporter checks here and they are the ones who filter to the masses. It is also obvious that Giants employees are on here. Now, the question remains should an organization really take into account a fan message board and the answer is probably no. But, this was a fan revolt and I am convinced it started here.
and by employees on here  
Essex : 1/12/2022 9:53 am : link
I don't mean that they post but just lurk and read.
RE: RE: You really  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2022 9:56 am : link
In comment 15548376 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15548367 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?

Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.

Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.


It is not the fans who read it that matters, though. It is the people in power who read it. Every beat reporter checks here and they are the ones who filter to the masses. It is also obvious that Giants employees are on here. Now, the question remains should an organization really take into account a fan message board and the answer is probably no. But, this was a fan revolt and I am convinced it started here.


Good story if true, I'm just not convinced it's true.

And to be honest if it is true it doesn't give me more confidence in the decision makers, it gives me less confidence to believe they couldn't come to the right decision on their own, but required the nudging of anonymous fans on a message board.
The picture  
Scooter185 : 1/12/2022 9:57 am : link
And then Dunne's autopsy article seemed to kick off the firestorm and it boiled over onto Twitter with Hanlon, and then the NotsoangryScout, and finally the supposed Petit burner of MustangLover. We also saw it with what the beats and others were saying. The organization went into full defensive mode after the clown picture, and I definitely think JJs reference was to it. BBI 100% struck a nerve
RE: Drawing a parallel from the past  
Del Shofner : 1/12/2022 9:58 am : link
In comment 15548358 section302 said:
Quote:
Clown show photo/11 minute rant = airplane banner
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”


+1
I find it a little odd that Judge would reference  
Section331 : 1/12/2022 9:59 am : link
a clown show day after that pic appeared on this website. Maybe it was just a random comment, or Judge saw it made elsewhere, but he repeated it a number of times in that presser. Maybe most fans don't know what BBI is, but you can be sure Giant management does.
That clown show  
Giants86 : 1/12/2022 10:00 am : link
picture 100% got back to them.
No way he mentions "Clown show" otherwise.
Easy enough theory to test  
Mike from Ohio : 1/12/2022 10:02 am : link
Whenever they hire a new head coach, BBI needs to give him a ridiculous nickname that would never come from anyone else. That name has to be used by many posters (unironically) for several weeks. If that eventually finds its way into the press, we will know if anyone is paying attention.

And to echo what pj said, I can't tell you how many people I know that are die hard Giants fans that read about them all the time, and have never heard of BBI. I wouldn't doubt the Giants PR dept and the beat writers monitor it for story ideas and to get ahead of developing narratives, but this is not the leading voice of NYG fandom.
certainly had legs......weather fair or not  
George from PA : 1/12/2022 10:08 am : link
but lets look forward....not back
RE: You really  
Beezer : 1/12/2022 10:09 am : link
In comment 15548367 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?

Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.

Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.


I have the same experience, regarding other friends/acquaintances ... what the hell is BBI?

That said, it's a somewhat "known" entity, and we know from direct contact that Pat Hanlon (vice president of communications) not only knows about this site, but has engaged in communication at LEAST with Eric (again, at LEAST regarding the set-up and execution of the Giant of the Year trophy ceremonies - I met him at one, as did several others). Ralph Vacciano sitting at the bar with BBIers in Albany is another direct experience, indicating that these people absolutely at LEAST "take the temperature" of BBI occasionally.

I'm not saying this is one of those times. I'm saying based on what we know, factually? Very plausible that such a thing was seen/read and made even a small impact (possibly more).
RE: Easy enough theory to test  
Beezer : 1/12/2022 10:10 am : link
In comment 15548415 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Whenever they hire a new head coach, BBI needs to give him a ridiculous nickname that would never come from anyone else. That name has to be used by many posters (unironically) for several weeks. If that eventually finds its way into the press, we will know if anyone is paying attention.

And to echo what pj said, I can't tell you how many people I know that are die hard Giants fans that read about them all the time, and have never heard of BBI. I wouldn't doubt the Giants PR dept and the beat writers monitor it for story ideas and to get ahead of developing narratives, but this is not the leading voice of NYG fandom.


We already know that several read here.
Of course that clown picture pushed a few buttons  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2022 10:11 am : link
within the front office, and led to Judge commenting on it.

Not even a question...

Hanlon knows BBI  
ij_reilly : 1/12/2022 10:12 am : link
I'm pretty darn sure that Hanlon knows BBI.

Didn't BBI have some direct communication with Hanlon in the past?

I could be mistaken I suppose.
it was absolutely a contributing factor. i'm sure the picture hit a  
markky : 1/12/2022 10:13 am : link
nerve, mostly because it was true. there was nowhere to hide.

I'm down with Mike from Ohio's test and bet it works. Words sweep through the public consciousness with surprising speed. One girl says "on fleek" in one video - boom, it's part of the vocabulary.

The airplane overhead used that era's  
Beezer : 1/12/2022 10:13 am : link
available avenues of communication.

BBI is just one tool through which fans and others can (and as we know, do) connect on messages, opinions and yes, levels of anger.
whether other fans know BBI or not,  
japanhead : 1/12/2022 10:14 am : link
the meme originated here and was spread from here. a number of other twitter handles featured avatars with judge's web head shot photoshopped with clown wig and nose. BBI lit that tinder ablaze and the flames spread. this is how the social media works.
RE: Hanlon knows BBI  
Beezer : 1/12/2022 10:14 am : link
In comment 15548437 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
I'm pretty darn sure that Hanlon knows BBI.

Didn't BBI have some direct communication with Hanlon in the past?

I could be mistaken I suppose.


He was present at at least 2 of the Giants of the Year ceremonies I attended with my family. Met him at one. I believe it was for Jacobs. I believe he was present for the Plax ceremony, as well ... and quite possibly the Eli one (the three I attended).

Eric/Margi could verify, as they were in direct contact for the planning.
re: Beezer - Then Hanlon definitely knows BBI  
ij_reilly : 1/12/2022 10:22 am : link
and I would bet that he monitors the content here.

He's a Giants lifer, which is cool, and I would be shocked if he doesn't scour boards like BBI. He probably sees it as part of his job/life.

I would place some cash on the fact that Hanlon brought the BBI clown picture (which I loved) to the Giants as a whole. I would also bet that the players became aware of the picture.


I don't disagree.  
Beezer : 1/12/2022 10:33 am : link
No telling ... but certainly possible. As we know, he's not a wallflower. lol And it can't be a fun era for him, working in the FO.
RE: Hanlon knows BBI  
jvm52106 : 1/12/2022 10:40 am : link
In comment 15548437 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
I'm pretty darn sure that Hanlon knows BBI.

Didn't BBI have some direct communication with Hanlon in the past?

I could be mistaken I suppose.


KNOWS IT!!! Eric and I (back in the day) had him on our BBI Online Live show multiple times. He arranged for us to interview Jerry Reese. He sure the heck knows BBI.
Everyone was calling him a clown  
Tyrion : 1/12/2022 10:42 am : link
His own Wiki page had a picture of him as a clown for at least a day. I really don't think BBI is as influential as people seem to think it is.
RE: Drawing a parallel from the past  
81_Great_Dane : 1/12/2022 10:52 am : link
In comment 15548358 section302 said:
Quote:
Clown show photo/11 minute rant = airplane banner
QB sneaks = “The Fumble”

Good analogy.
As one aspect of fan sentiment  
mattlawson : 1/12/2022 11:36 am : link
It probably played a small part. But let’s not start sucking each others dicks just yet gentlemen
RE: Everyone was calling him a clown  
Scooter185 : 1/12/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15548558 Tyrion said:
Quote:
His own Wiki page had a picture of him as a clown for at least a day. I really don't think BBI is as influential as people seem to think it is.


The Wikipedia thing happened after Eric posted his picture. It was absolutely the genesis of it all, Judge's comment just opened it up to the whole fanbase
RE: RE: Everyone was calling him a clown  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15548754 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15548558 Tyrion said:


Quote:


His own Wiki page had a picture of him as a clown for at least a day. I really don't think BBI is as influential as people seem to think it is.



The Wikipedia thing happened after Eric posted his picture. It was absolutely the genesis of it all, Judge's comment just opened it up to the whole fanbase


The term clown show is nothing new, even this year in the NFL. Skip Bayless called Carolina a clown show back in December. The Jaguar fans wore clown costumes to their final home game. Are they all reading BBI?
Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. Makes no matter to me.  
CardinalX : 1/12/2022 11:59 am : link
But witnessing people's rabid thirst to be relevant? That's truly comical. I hear a lot of honking clown horns.
RE: You really  
Red Right Hand : 1/12/2022 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15548367 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?

Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.

Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.
And yet even non giant fans all over the country knew what the clown show referred to.
RE: RE: You really  
.McL. : 1/12/2022 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15548376 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15548367 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


think BBI had that much influence over this current situation?

Obviously anecdotal, but almost no Giants fans I know ever heard of BBI.

Not disagreeing, I just really don't know, but if forced to pick a side I tend to doubt it.


It is not the fans who read it that matters, though. It is the people in power who read it. Every beat reporter checks here and they are the ones who filter to the masses. It is also obvious that Giants employees are on here. Now, the question remains should an organization really take into account a fan message board and the answer is probably no. But, this was a fan revolt and I am convinced it started here.

I agree with you Essex, I do believe the fan revolt was largely responsible for where we are.
The clown picture obviously hit home with FO and Judge since they responded to it.
While pjcas is right most Giant fans do not know about BBI. But you are right that the beats are here, Giant employees are here.
We are the die hards. We are the group that is going to represent their "best"/most loyal consumers.
If they want to get a good read on the overall fan base, then looking here is a good idea.
I believe BBI was at the tip of the spear of this fan revolt.
It was  
Les in TO : 1/12/2022 12:11 pm : link
An awesome photoshop and seemingly got the attention of Jints Central who sent a troll army to complain about it here.
Did anyone see any reference  
Big Al : 1/12/2022 12:23 pm : link
at all to the word “clown” with regard to the Giants before that picture? Where? I think it started here. Just because that may have happened once doe not follow that BBI has any general significance in Giants decision making. Something that happened was noticed here which probably would have been ignored by management gained an audience to support it. it spread to the press, the team organization including Judge who committed verbal suicide putting him on a very short lease before his horrible last game.

Probably countless examples on social media of other less known sites and people than BBI making a remark which some see and gain traction leading to major controversy and change.

Even before social media. No one expected the assassination of some insignificant to the world Duke or whatever his title was to cause World War 1.
McL agreed  
NoGainDayne : 1/12/2022 12:28 pm : link
I think BBI kind of represents a fan consensus. When changes weren't being made in earlier years, the critiques were outnumbered by the people that still believed. It was my estimation and I think yours as well that until this shifted the Mara's were going to stay in their comfort zone.

People mocked me for the we need to get out our pitchforks comments but when the pitchforks game out they left their comfort zone 100%. The thing is for something to stick on BBI on catch on, you need to have a good argument. Sometimes you need to sustain it, for years. While not everyone knows about this place, a lot of the most passionate fans either read this or post here.

I do believe David Carr and Chris Bober signed the petition we had, at the very least Bober lol. Those aren't big enough names that someone would want to impersonate them.

Clearly there are insiders that post here and just like we get asshats I do believe that asshats carry information back to their sources as well. And I do believe this, if enough people can write off the critics of the world as fringe crazies the team is not going to take it seriously. When it's a narrative the average fan can adopt they will care.

And I do believe Eric switching over to a harsh critic was a big step. I do think he stays pretty balanced and he has every reason to stay in the good graces of the team.

I hope the job gets finished and Ty Siam, Koncz and Petit are shown the door. Then I can rest in full on optimism for a few years.

I do hope BBI has learned something overall though. The "in Reese we trust" the whole "they are an NFL team and they know more than you" etc. No one is unassailable. Anyone can have a lot of money, make a lot of money and still do a horrible job. Knowledge and experience are frequently trumped by a willingness to learn and innovate. Especially in today's world.

This is the biggest lesson I hope the Giants learned. DG WAS a top front office man at a time, the Giants WERE a top front office at a time. Those things are earned on an ongoing basis no coronated.
I think it started here  
Optimus-NY : 1/12/2022 12:33 pm : link
Credit to Eric's daughter and the fans who pushed for change.
Agree, Essex  
The Jake : 1/12/2022 12:42 pm : link
it seems like the meme started here, was picked up on social media, and then blasted out to more people by influencers, sharing, etc.

Never underestimate the power of a good meme.
I like BBI  
pjcas18 : 1/12/2022 12:51 pm : link
so it's not like I'm trying to discredit anyone or anything, and maybe I just hope the Giants are competent enough not to be swayed to the point of "nuclear" action by a graphic on a message board. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm the naive one.

So, I'm not saying people didn't see the BBI image, but calling what the Giants put on the field a clown show is probably just not a unique thought and it was probably circulating unaffiliated with BBI at a national level with more impact than BBI could have.

And to think a message board with what a few hundred active members and maybe a few thousand viewers forced a team to make significant change is not what I view as a good thing even if it's the right outcome. Also, I don't consider the few thousand BBI viewers the hard core fans when there are what 75,000 plus season ticket holders?

A quick Google search

This is from September, clearly before the BBI image:


this is from early December, also I believe before the BBI image.




Yea I love BBI  
AJ23 : 1/12/2022 1:12 pm : link
But clown show is a pretty widely used phrase. It also could have easily been a reference to the Jaguars.

From 12/29:
Quote:
For context, a large contingent of Jaguars fans has changed their Twitter avatars to a clown donned with a mustache that appears to be similar to Khan’s mustache. As silly as it sounds, it has made an impact already, and it has been reported that people within the Jaguars organization have seen the backlash.

Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan is under more pressure than ever before - ( New Window )
I think there are two different things  
NoGainDayne : 1/12/2022 4:22 pm : link
was clown show a unique idea? I don't think so.

Do I think BBI created a moment where a lot more people started to associate our ownership directly with clowns, yes.

I don't think it is just a coincidence that the topic started to come up for the first time and often by Giants leaders RIGHT after the picture.
This will live forever in BBI annals  
HomerJones45 : 1/12/2022 4:29 pm : link
One thing I won't miss.  
Beezer : 1/12/2022 4:37 pm : link
Gettleman's smug look. (See: Clownshow photo, above.)
RE: I find it a little odd that Judge would reference  
shyster : 1/12/2022 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15548403 Section331 said:
Quote:
a clown show day after that pic appeared on this website. Maybe it was just a random comment, or Judge saw it made elsewhere, but he repeated it a number of times in that presser. Maybe most fans don't know what BBI is, but you can be sure Giant management does.


Wasn't a day after, was a full week; photo was on the Eagles game story the week before the Bears game. That was enough time for the impact of the photo to percolate.

It was during that week that posters were popping up on BBI complaining about the photo and saying they would leave the site because of it.

There may have been other random clown references out there before that but I do tend to believe that it was the BBI photo that started the train that led to Judge's comment.

And once he said it to the whole world, the media was then all over it.
Back to the Corner