anything John Mara said here. It's apparent that there wasn't anything he could possibly say that would satisfy all the posters here. But it looks like he is committedd to a fresh start and that's what we all wanted. As far as Chris Mara, that get's blown up here, he is part of ownership, it wouldn't be practical to demand he severs all ties to the management. As far as I'm concerned with this statement, so far, so good. We will be watching.
So true.
John Mara has done everything asked of him so far in the first 3 days of this offseason, complete with a who's who list of top GM candidates from organizations all across the current playoff spectrum and some of you are still acting crazy.
you have acknowledged that Chris Marra spends most of his time on player evaluations. Why would he do that if they didn't think he would have some input??? Confirms everything a bunch of us were worried about. You think one of the new potential GM candidates wants to hear that??? The new GM needs to have final say with input from the coach the GM has selected. John needs to get Chris the heck out of the player personnel department. If he has no final say...as John Marra says why is he spending so much time on player evaluations????? This is the Marras wanting to play with their toy. This part has to get fixed as well. In fact, long term it is the most important part to get fixed because if it is not fixed who the GM is won't matter we will be stuck with more crappy drafts, rinse, repeat.
What kind of Giants fan doesn't know how to spell "Mara"?
A badd onne
If Chris has a nothing function with a fancy title
you have acknowledged that Chris Marra spends most of his time on player evaluations. Why would he do that if they didn't think he would have some input??? Confirms everything a bunch of us were worried about. You think one of the new potential GM candidates wants to hear that??? The new GM needs to have final say with input from the coach the GM has selected. John needs to get Chris the heck out of the player personnel department. If he has no final say...as John Marra says why is he spending so much time on player evaluations????? This is the Marras wanting to play with their toy. This part has to get fixed as well. In fact, long term it is the most important part to get fixed because if it is not fixed who the GM is won't matter we will be stuck with more crappy drafts, rinse, repeat.
The big take I got out of it was that Mara recognizes that they have to essentially have to blow it up again without saying it. I think he sees as I did and many others that it would be impossible to keep Judge seeing how much they have to address roster wise.
He said "He thinks there is a good HC still inside Joe." Like him as a person and it heart wrenching to John having to make that long walk down the hall to move on from someone.
He is acknowledging things have been bad for quite a few years. I think this is a great step in the recovery. We'll see how it plays out and who gets the chance.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara sounds like someone who doesn't intend to make meaningful change with the organization.
He essentially ignores/dodges two questions about allowing GM Dave Gettleman to "retire."
All media was allowed one question, no follow-ups.
Steve Tisch not part of the call.
I don't see the BFD in allowing a 70 yr old to "retire". I'm pretty sure plenty of retirement aged guys have "retired" in similar circumstances (i.e., vs. being fired). We have bigger things to be concerned about, including getting the new GM right.
If you're not going to stream it live, don't announce to your fans it will take place by Zoom at 1:15 and have us hanging on pins and needles to watch it during the middle of our work day and look around for outlets to carry it, only to be told by the press after it began that it was not to be aired live. Weak sauce cowardly stuff.
They screwed up in the past on coach and GM hirings. Now is the time to get it right finally. He needs to get the GM hiring right and let his new GM structure the personnel, scouting and coaching depts. as he sees fit.
I feel a lot better about JM today than I did several days ago. He could of continued the BS Giants Way but he knew the organization hit rock bottom and needed to clean house.
He needs to rebuild trust with the fan base and this is a good start IMHO.
There is no issue here other than if you want to call John a flat out liar and back it up with proof.
Jimmy
There have been disagreements here as to whether Chris Mara has any impact at all on the players who are brought in here.
None of us know the real answer. However, anyone with the ability to do some mental math can come to this conclusion.
First, Chris Mara has been tied to scouting to some degree for decades
Second, the organization has been accused of allowing family (specifically Chris) to make player personnel decisions when they should leave that to professionals.
Third, John Mara refuses to at least give Chris Mara some other job in the organization. Something that would distract the fans from looking in this direction.
Fourth, why does Chris Mara continue to hold his title? They could make him director of marketing while he continues to analyze players with his office door closed.
WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE THE JOB TITLE despite so much pressure from the fan base? The answer is simple... HE IS a contributor to the decisions that are being made. There are interviews with Chris Mara going way back where he specifically says he was pushing for specific players in the draft room.
He is not just sitting at home collecting a pay check
No. John just remarked how he doesn't really have any influence and just does some college player evaluations. Evaluations that probably the GM/Coaches made not even rely upon as they are the one making the player decisions anyway.
I wouldn't give him a title if it were me, but at some point you all are going to have to think clearly about how meaningless Alf, excuse me...Chris Mara and his role is in the overall scheme of roster building decisions for the Giants.
The GM drives the bus...
This must have been a really tough press conference to do
He stood up there, took tough questions and had to admit it is the most embarrassed he's ever been, admitted to mistakes in the last GM search, and had to defend the role his brother plays. That's pretty tough and I salute him for that.
That doesn't mean that he will hire the right GM or that the organizational problems will be fixed, but facing up to a VERY hostile public is a necessary first step
Oh so he’s responsible for evaluating college prospects? How has that gone since he’s stepped into the role? Do you think he’s proven he deserves to keep that job?
How the fuck would we know if he's proven he deserves to keep the job? We don't get to see his evaluations. Maybe they were spot on, but got ignored. What is this obsession with Chris Mara? Are people simply jealous of him?
The big take I got out of it was that Mara recognizes that they have to essentially have to blow it up again without saying it. I think he sees as I did and many others that it would be impossible to keep Judge seeing how much they have to address roster wise.
He said "He thinks there is a good HC still inside Joe." Like him as a person and it heart wrenching to John having to make that long walk down the hall to move on from someone.
He is acknowledging things have been bad for quite a few years. I think this is a great step in the recovery. We'll see how it plays out and who gets the chance.
He actually did use the term “blow it up” which is a good thing 👍
you have acknowledged that Chris Marra spends most of his time on player evaluations. Why would he do that if they didn't think he would have some input??? Confirms everything a bunch of us were worried about. You think one of the new potential GM candidates wants to hear that??? The new GM needs to have final say with input from the coach the GM has selected. John needs to get Chris the heck out of the player personnel department. If he has no final say...as John Marra says why is he spending so much time on player evaluations????? This is the Marras wanting to play with their toy. This part has to get fixed as well. In fact, long term it is the most important part to get fixed because if it is not fixed who the GM is won't matter we will be stuck with more crappy drafts, rinse, repeat.
What kind of Giants fan doesn't know how to spell "Mara"?
According to John, himself, Chris spends most of his time in player evaluations. He is the head of the personnel department. So what does that mean? My assumption is that the people working UNDER Chris do all the scouting, based on criteria handed to them by Chris. I assume Chris has ultimate say in which scouts are hired and fired. I assume Chris has subjective input and oversight into what each evaluation ends up looking like. And then these evaluations get passed up to the GM and become the primary basis for how the Giants' draft board ends up looking. I don't know how much personal evaluation was done by our past GMs or will be done by our future one. Do they really have the time for large scale independent evaluations? My guess is that for the most part they are guided by the documents that they get from Chris. So whether or not Chris makes decisions in the draft room, he has had substantial input into those decisions. As they say GI/GO
The big take I got out of it was that Mara recognizes that they have to essentially have to blow it up again without saying it. I think he sees as I did and many others that it would be impossible to keep Judge seeing how much they have to address roster wise.
He said "He thinks there is a good HC still inside Joe." Like him as a person and it heart wrenching to John having to make that long walk down the hall to move on from someone.
He is acknowledging things have been bad for quite a few years. I think this is a great step in the recovery. We'll see how it plays out and who gets the chance.
He actually did use the term “blow it up” which is a good thing 👍
But the potentially bad thing is that John thinks that firing the GM and coach constitutes blowing it up, and that nothing else needs to be done. He apparently thinks, at least out loud, that the family is not something that needs to be fixed.
Clearly the McCaskey debacle in Chicago spooked them
According to John, himself, Chris spends most of his time in player evaluations. He is the head of the personnel department. So what does that mean? My assumption is that the people working UNDER Chris do all the scouting, based on criteria handed to them by Chris. I assume Chris has ultimate say in which scouts are hired and fired. I assume Chris has subjective input and oversight into what each evaluation ends up looking like. And then these evaluations get passed up to the GM and become the primary basis for how the Giants' draft board ends up looking. I don't know how much personal evaluation was done by our past GMs or will be done by our future one. Do they really have the time for large scale independent evaluations? My guess is that for the most part they are guided by the documents that they get from Chris. So whether or not Chris makes decisions in the draft room, he has had substantial input into those decisions. As they say GI/GO
Way too many leaps in this.
We know Getts turned over scouting, changed internal player eval processes. John Mara also said Chris' college player evals get loaded into their system with the rest of of them. He never said his become the primary source to create a Draft Board, picking the players or quite frankly even used.
Oh so he’s responsible for evaluating college prospects? How has that gone since he’s stepped into the role? Do you think he’s proven he deserves to keep that job?
How the fuck would we know if he's proven he deserves to keep the job? We don't get to see his evaluations. Maybe they were spot on, but got ignored. What is this obsession with Chris Mara? Are people simply jealous of him?
According to the information under "Team Administration", he is "Senior Vice President of Player Personnel" Do you think the team has done a good job with player personnel? Do you think he would keep the job if his name was not Mara?
Jawn danced around a bit with this one. He said he has no authority which would indicate that he sits in his office and plays the ponies. Then he said he has "input" and does "evaluations of college players" where we also haven't exactly been stellar, but the GM and HC make the call.
Ok, that begs the question as to whether when an owner and Senior VP of Player Personnel says "Joe Blow's scouting report has red flags because of a, b, and c" or "Joe Blow has a great scouting report because of x, y and z", do the GM and HC just ignore it? Go to Jawn so he decides? Go along? Given the issues in acquiring players, these are legitimate questions
We really need Fmic to come back to the site as this
In comment 15549403 M.S. said:
[quote]
decent man. And he did graduate Fordham Law School so he's probably no academic slouch.
But it is HIS organization and the Giants record since the start of the 2017 season is worse than abysmal.
THAT'S on John Mara.
At this stage, I'll take a little less decency and a little less academic prowess for a team that can make us feel proud again!
Don't be so kind. Its been since 2013 with one season where everything went well and still that playoff game was horrible. Hopefully this is the end of the meddling. But it starts with the SB Clock, WCO and continued thereafter. If Mara finally recognizes it has been mostly a talent issue then we are in good shape if he is hiring someone to correct that long standing issue.
at some point you all are going to have to think clearly about how meaningless Alf, excuse me...Chris Mara and his role is in the overall scheme of roster building decisions for the Giants.
The GM drives the bus...
Again... why wont they just announce Chris is no longer involved in the player personnel department? They can remove doubt in everyone's minds by doing so. The fact that they will not do that meant that he is a contributor AND he does not want to stop contributing.
If Alf is meaningless to the whole scheme then why will they not move him into a different role? Nobody is answering that.
RE: I guess the Giants saw what happened in Chicago yesterday
at some point you all are going to have to think clearly about how meaningless Alf, excuse me...Chris Mara and his role is in the overall scheme of roster building decisions for the Giants.
The GM drives the bus...
Again... why wont they just announce Chris is no longer involved in the player personnel department? They can remove doubt in everyone's minds by doing so. The fact that they will not do that meant that he is a contributor AND he does not want to stop contributing.
If Alf is meaningless to the whole scheme then why will they not move him into a different role? Nobody is answering that.
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
John getting defensive of the Chris and Tim question
I read one guy saying who knows what player personnel does without realizing that pretty much every GM candidate the Giants are interviewing is in another teams personnel department.
So if Chris Mara is the top guy in that department and doesn't do much it might explain why the Giants draft so poorly.
You have to be a complete idiot to think one of the 4 owners listed on the Giants web site under OWNERSHIP isn't heavily influencing any discussion he's part of. Whether it's consciously or unconsciously an owner employee conversation is not a level playing field or fertile ground for sharing unfiltered ideas.
The Giants aren't a laughing stock because of bad luck. They're a laughing stock because of bad management. That management is 100% lead by John and Chris Mara and if they keep doing what they've done for the past 10 years they're going to keep getting the same results. It doesn't matter how many times they change the name on the door of the GM and head coach offices. It does not work.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: More from Ralph:
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: More from Ralph:
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
He and Chris are owners, and they will meddle. But if they can get a smarter voice than Gettleman (that bar is in the Earth's core) the process will improve by default.
I think this year was, finally and mercifully, bottom.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: More from Ralph:
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
Yes, the HC and GM make the final choices. But they make them based largely on the information and evaluations they get from the Personnel Dept. If the Personnel Dept sucks, the choices are gonna suck
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
I am comfortable in hiring a new GM who drives the process, whether Chris stays in place or not. My preference is he doesn't but not enough to care.
get smarter, more modern football minds in the building to manage the show. By default, it should have an impact on improving scouting, and if it doesn't, then the GM has material ammo to make scouting changes.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
Why is that so hard to believe? Why is it hard to believe that as an owner he rightfully gives his opinion without having authority over the final decision?
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
get smarter, more modern football minds in the building to manage the show. By default, it should have an impact on improving scouting, and if it doesn't, then the GM has material ammo to make scouting changes.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
Thought it was a decent press conference. Yeah, there was some fudging about Chris Mara's role, but ok. Another poster said Jawn was a decent guy and no idiot, and he is.
I think he was genuinely embarrassed by the state of the team. He seems to have gotten the message that his family's influence on football matters is an issue with fans. He said it wasn't necessary to fire Gettlemen in mid-season, and he was right there too; the damage was done, his contract was up, and nothing was to be gained by throwing the guy out the front door. He was forthright in saying they made a mistake in their hiring process the last time and they were not going to repeat the mistake. He was also forthright in saying he had given the fans little reason to think good decisions will be made.
They have certainly cast a wide net for a GM. So, hopefully he follows through.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara sounds like someone who doesn't intend to make meaningful change with the organization.
He essentially ignores/dodges two questions about allowing GM Dave Gettleman to "retire."
All media was allowed one question, no follow-ups.
Steve Tisch not part of the call.
I don't see the BFD in allowing a 70 yr old to "retire". I'm pretty sure plenty of retirement aged guys have "retired" in similar circumstances (i.e., vs. being fired). We have bigger things to be concerned about, including getting the new GM right.
DR D, the fans want a pound of flesh and a pelt of the wall for this disaster that's why.Firing DG last month would have added accountability
Why is that so hard to believe? Why is it hard to believe that as an owner he rightfully gives his opinion without having authority over the final decision?
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
I think you're removing a lot of the human element if you believe it's that simple.This is a guy who wanted to be GM.There have been numerous articles saying he's not involved,one which was very recent.He's gone on radio shows talking about the Giants draft.He still has a job after all the shit that's gone on,and not in the mail room either.
So you add all that up,maybe a few things I'm leaving out,but that's why it's hard to believe.
So true.
John Mara has done everything asked of him so far in the first 3 days of this offseason, complete with a who's who list of top GM candidates from organizations all across the current playoff spectrum and some of you are still acting crazy.
But now actions need to speak louder than words.
And they need to decide what kind of a football team they are, going forward.
Quote:
you have acknowledged that Chris Marra spends most of his time on player evaluations. Why would he do that if they didn't think he would have some input??? Confirms everything a bunch of us were worried about. You think one of the new potential GM candidates wants to hear that??? The new GM needs to have final say with input from the coach the GM has selected. John needs to get Chris the heck out of the player personnel department. If he has no final say...as John Marra says why is he spending so much time on player evaluations????? This is the Marras wanting to play with their toy. This part has to get fixed as well. In fact, long term it is the most important part to get fixed because if it is not fixed who the GM is won't matter we will be stuck with more crappy drafts, rinse, repeat.
What kind of Giants fan doesn't know how to spell "Mara"?
+1 fix this shit.
He said "He thinks there is a good HC still inside Joe." Like him as a person and it heart wrenching to John having to make that long walk down the hall to move on from someone.
He is acknowledging things have been bad for quite a few years. I think this is a great step in the recovery. We'll see how it plays out and who gets the chance.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara sounds like someone who doesn't intend to make meaningful change with the organization.
He essentially ignores/dodges two questions about allowing GM Dave Gettleman to "retire."
All media was allowed one question, no follow-ups.
Steve Tisch not part of the call.
I don't see the BFD in allowing a 70 yr old to "retire". I'm pretty sure plenty of retirement aged guys have "retired" in similar circumstances (i.e., vs. being fired). We have bigger things to be concerned about, including getting the new GM right.
I feel a lot better about JM today than I did several days ago. He could of continued the BS Giants Way but he knew the organization hit rock bottom and needed to clean house.
He needs to rebuild trust with the fan base and this is a good start IMHO.
Quote:
There is no issue here other than if you want to call John a flat out liar and back it up with proof.
Jimmy
There have been disagreements here as to whether Chris Mara has any impact at all on the players who are brought in here.
None of us know the real answer. However, anyone with the ability to do some mental math can come to this conclusion.
First, Chris Mara has been tied to scouting to some degree for decades
Second, the organization has been accused of allowing family (specifically Chris) to make player personnel decisions when they should leave that to professionals.
Third, John Mara refuses to at least give Chris Mara some other job in the organization. Something that would distract the fans from looking in this direction.
Fourth, why does Chris Mara continue to hold his title? They could make him director of marketing while he continues to analyze players with his office door closed.
WHY DOES HE STILL HAVE THE JOB TITLE despite so much pressure from the fan base? The answer is simple... HE IS a contributor to the decisions that are being made. There are interviews with Chris Mara going way back where he specifically says he was pushing for specific players in the draft room.
He is not just sitting at home collecting a pay check
No. John just remarked how he doesn't really have any influence and just does some college player evaluations. Evaluations that probably the GM/Coaches made not even rely upon as they are the one making the player decisions anyway.
I wouldn't give him a title if it were me, but at some point you all are going to have to think clearly about how meaningless Alf, excuse me...Chris Mara and his role is in the overall scheme of roster building decisions for the Giants.
The GM drives the bus...
That doesn't mean that he will hire the right GM or that the organizational problems will be fixed, but facing up to a VERY hostile public is a necessary first step
and will continue to do so…unless John is stepping down giving Chris the reigns due to health reasons.
He said "He thinks there is a good HC still inside Joe." Like him as a person and it heart wrenching to John having to make that long walk down the hall to move on from someone.
He is acknowledging things have been bad for quite a few years. I think this is a great step in the recovery. We'll see how it plays out and who gets the chance.
He actually did use the term “blow it up” which is a good thing 👍
Quote:
In comment 15549180 Chris L. said:
Quote:
you have acknowledged that Chris Marra spends most of his time on player evaluations. Why would he do that if they didn't think he would have some input??? Confirms everything a bunch of us were worried about. You think one of the new potential GM candidates wants to hear that??? The new GM needs to have final say with input from the coach the GM has selected. John needs to get Chris the heck out of the player personnel department. If he has no final say...as John Marra says why is he spending so much time on player evaluations????? This is the Marras wanting to play with their toy. This part has to get fixed as well. In fact, long term it is the most important part to get fixed because if it is not fixed who the GM is won't matter we will be stuck with more crappy drafts, rinse, repeat.
What kind of Giants fan doesn't know how to spell "Mara"?
the morron kind...
It's morran.
Duh.
and will continue to do so…unless John is stepping down giving Chris the reigns due to health reasons.
Oh well...then you better hope Chris gets better at determining who are good players going forward.
Quote:
The big take I got out of it was that Mara recognizes that they have to essentially have to blow it up again without saying it. I think he sees as I did and many others that it would be impossible to keep Judge seeing how much they have to address roster wise.
He said "He thinks there is a good HC still inside Joe." Like him as a person and it heart wrenching to John having to make that long walk down the hall to move on from someone.
He is acknowledging things have been bad for quite a few years. I think this is a great step in the recovery. We'll see how it plays out and who gets the chance.
He actually did use the term “blow it up” which is a good thing 👍
But the potentially bad thing is that John thinks that firing the GM and coach constitutes blowing it up, and that nothing else needs to be done. He apparently thinks, at least out loud, that the family is not something that needs to be fixed.
Their PR needs an overhaul completely going back to the Gettleman hiring.
decent man. And he did graduate Fordham Law School so he's probably no academic slouch.
But it is HIS organization and the Giants record since the start of the 2017 season is worse than abysmal.
THAT'S on John Mara.
At this stage, I'll take a little less decency and a little less academic prowess for a team that can make us feel proud again!
Way too many leaps in this.
We know Getts turned over scouting, changed internal player eval processes. John Mara also said Chris' college player evals get loaded into their system with the rest of of them. He never said his become the primary source to create a Draft Board, picking the players or quite frankly even used.
Quote:
Oh so he’s responsible for evaluating college prospects? How has that gone since he’s stepped into the role? Do you think he’s proven he deserves to keep that job?
How the fuck would we know if he's proven he deserves to keep the job? We don't get to see his evaluations. Maybe they were spot on, but got ignored. What is this obsession with Chris Mara? Are people simply jealous of him?
Jawn danced around a bit with this one. He said he has no authority which would indicate that he sits in his office and plays the ponies. Then he said he has "input" and does "evaluations of college players" where we also haven't exactly been stellar, but the GM and HC make the call.
Ok, that begs the question as to whether when an owner and Senior VP of Player Personnel says "Joe Blow's scouting report has red flags because of a, b, and c" or "Joe Blow has a great scouting report because of x, y and z", do the GM and HC just ignore it? Go to Jawn so he decides? Go along? Given the issues in acquiring players, these are legitimate questions
:-)
[quote]
decent man. And he did graduate Fordham Law School so he's probably no academic slouch.
But it is HIS organization and the Giants record since the start of the 2017 season is worse than abysmal.
THAT'S on John Mara.
At this stage, I'll take a little less decency and a little less academic prowess for a team that can make us feel proud again!
Don't be so kind. Its been since 2013 with one season where everything went well and still that playoff game was horrible. Hopefully this is the end of the meddling. But it starts with the SB Clock, WCO and continued thereafter. If Mara finally recognizes it has been mostly a talent issue then we are in good shape if he is hiring someone to correct that long standing issue.
The GM drives the bus...
Again... why wont they just announce Chris is no longer involved in the player personnel department? They can remove doubt in everyone's minds by doing so. The fact that they will not do that meant that he is a contributor AND he does not want to stop contributing.
If Alf is meaningless to the whole scheme then why will they not move him into a different role? Nobody is answering that.
A salesman.
They all fucking lie.
That's the job.
Results.
Show a me a team that has winning record at any point in the season.
Quote:
at some point you all are going to have to think clearly about how meaningless Alf, excuse me...Chris Mara and his role is in the overall scheme of roster building decisions for the Giants.
The GM drives the bus...
Again... why wont they just announce Chris is no longer involved in the player personnel department? They can remove doubt in everyone's minds by doing so. The fact that they will not do that meant that he is a contributor AND he does not want to stop contributing.
If Alf is meaningless to the whole scheme then why will they not move him into a different role? Nobody is answering that.
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Press conference.
Link - ( New Window )
I read one guy saying who knows what player personnel does without realizing that pretty much every GM candidate the Giants are interviewing is in another teams personnel department.
So if Chris Mara is the top guy in that department and doesn't do much it might explain why the Giants draft so poorly.
You have to be a complete idiot to think one of the 4 owners listed on the Giants web site under OWNERSHIP isn't heavily influencing any discussion he's part of. Whether it's consciously or unconsciously an owner employee conversation is not a level playing field or fertile ground for sharing unfiltered ideas.
The Giants aren't a laughing stock because of bad luck. They're a laughing stock because of bad management. That management is 100% lead by John and Chris Mara and if they keep doing what they've done for the past 10 years they're going to keep getting the same results. It doesn't matter how many times they change the name on the door of the GM and head coach offices. It does not work.
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
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Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
"Fresh start"
"Blow it up"
"Reset button"
He and Chris are owners, and they will meddle. But if they can get a smarter voice than Gettleman (that bar is in the Earth's core) the process will improve by default.
I think this year was, finally and mercifully, bottom.
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
Yes, the HC and GM make the final choices. But they make them based largely on the information and evaluations they get from the Personnel Dept. If the Personnel Dept sucks, the choices are gonna suck
Give me a break John
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Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
I am comfortable in hiring a new GM who drives the process, whether Chris stays in place or not. My preference is he doesn't but not enough to care.
I’m hoping the next time I literally hear a word out of Mara’s mouth is him accepting the Lombardi.
I hope the only two characters we hear speak on behalf of the Giants for the next ten years are the coach and GM they hire this month.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
Give me a break John
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
I think he was genuinely embarrassed by the state of the team. He seems to have gotten the message that his family's influence on football matters is an issue with fans. He said it wasn't necessary to fire Gettlemen in mid-season, and he was right there too; the damage was done, his contract was up, and nothing was to be gained by throwing the guy out the front door. He was forthright in saying they made a mistake in their hiring process the last time and they were not going to repeat the mistake. He was also forthright in saying he had given the fans little reason to think good decisions will be made.
They have certainly cast a wide net for a GM. So, hopefully he follows through.
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Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara sounds like someone who doesn't intend to make meaningful change with the organization.
He essentially ignores/dodges two questions about allowing GM Dave Gettleman to "retire."
All media was allowed one question, no follow-ups.
Steve Tisch not part of the call.
I don't see the BFD in allowing a 70 yr old to "retire". I'm pretty sure plenty of retirement aged guys have "retired" in similar circumstances (i.e., vs. being fired). We have bigger things to be concerned about, including getting the new GM right.
DR D, the fans want a pound of flesh and a pelt of the wall for this disaster that's why.Firing DG last month would have added accountability
They may be lumped together in his brain as the core of the rotten foundation. That's a good thing.
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
I think you're removing a lot of the human element if you believe it's that simple.This is a guy who wanted to be GM.There have been numerous articles saying he's not involved,one which was very recent.He's gone on radio shows talking about the Giants draft.He still has a job after all the shit that's gone on,and not in the mail room either.
So you add all that up,maybe a few things I'm leaving out,but that's why it's hard to believe.