I read one guy saying who knows what player personnel does without realizing that pretty much every GM candidate the Giants are interviewing is in another teams personnel department.
So if Chris Mara is the top guy in that department and doesn't do much it might explain why the Giants draft so poorly.
You have to be a complete idiot to think one of the 4 owners listed on the Giants web site under OWNERSHIP isn't heavily influencing any discussion he's part of. Whether it's consciously or unconsciously an owner employee conversation is not a level playing field or fertile ground for sharing unfiltered ideas.
The Giants aren't a laughing stock because of bad luck. They're a laughing stock because of bad management. That management is 100% lead by John and Chris Mara and if they keep doing what they've done for the past 10 years they're going to keep getting the same results. It doesn't matter how many times they change the name on the door of the GM and head coach offices. It does not work.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: More from Ralph:
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: More from Ralph:
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
He and Chris are owners, and they will meddle. But if they can get a smarter voice than Gettleman (that bar is in the Earth's core) the process will improve by default.
I think this year was, finally and mercifully, bottom.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: More from Ralph:
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
Yes, the HC and GM make the final choices. But they make them based largely on the information and evaluations they get from the Personnel Dept. If the Personnel Dept sucks, the choices are gonna suck
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
I am comfortable in hiring a new GM who drives the process, whether Chris stays in place or not. My preference is he doesn't but not enough to care.
get smarter, more modern football minds in the building to manage the show. By default, it should have an impact on improving scouting, and if it doesn't, then the GM has material ammo to make scouting changes.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
Why is that so hard to believe? Why is it hard to believe that as an owner he rightfully gives his opinion without having authority over the final decision?
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
get smarter, more modern football minds in the building to manage the show. By default, it should have an impact on improving scouting, and if it doesn't, then the GM has material ammo to make scouting changes.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
Thought it was a decent press conference. Yeah, there was some fudging about Chris Mara's role, but ok. Another poster said Jawn was a decent guy and no idiot, and he is.
I think he was genuinely embarrassed by the state of the team. He seems to have gotten the message that his family's influence on football matters is an issue with fans. He said it wasn't necessary to fire Gettlemen in mid-season, and he was right there too; the damage was done, his contract was up, and nothing was to be gained by throwing the guy out the front door. He was forthright in saying they made a mistake in their hiring process the last time and they were not going to repeat the mistake. He was also forthright in saying he had given the fans little reason to think good decisions will be made.
They have certainly cast a wide net for a GM. So, hopefully he follows through.
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara sounds like someone who doesn't intend to make meaningful change with the organization.
He essentially ignores/dodges two questions about allowing GM Dave Gettleman to "retire."
All media was allowed one question, no follow-ups.
Steve Tisch not part of the call.
I don't see the BFD in allowing a 70 yr old to "retire". I'm pretty sure plenty of retirement aged guys have "retired" in similar circumstances (i.e., vs. being fired). We have bigger things to be concerned about, including getting the new GM right.
DR D, the fans want a pound of flesh and a pelt of the wall for this disaster that's why.Firing DG last month would have added accountability
Why is that so hard to believe? Why is it hard to believe that as an owner he rightfully gives his opinion without having authority over the final decision?
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
I think you're removing a lot of the human element if you believe it's that simple.This is a guy who wanted to be GM.There have been numerous articles saying he's not involved,one which was very recent.He's gone on radio shows talking about the Giants draft.He still has a job after all the shit that's gone on,and not in the mail room either.
So you add all that up,maybe a few things I'm leaving out,but that's why it's hard to believe.
Press conference.
Link - ( New Window )
I read one guy saying who knows what player personnel does without realizing that pretty much every GM candidate the Giants are interviewing is in another teams personnel department.
So if Chris Mara is the top guy in that department and doesn't do much it might explain why the Giants draft so poorly.
You have to be a complete idiot to think one of the 4 owners listed on the Giants web site under OWNERSHIP isn't heavily influencing any discussion he's part of. Whether it's consciously or unconsciously an owner employee conversation is not a level playing field or fertile ground for sharing unfiltered ideas.
The Giants aren't a laughing stock because of bad luck. They're a laughing stock because of bad management. That management is 100% lead by John and Chris Mara and if they keep doing what they've done for the past 10 years they're going to keep getting the same results. It doesn't matter how many times they change the name on the door of the GM and head coach offices. It does not work.
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
Quote:
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
"Fresh start"
"Blow it up"
"Reset button"
He and Chris are owners, and they will meddle. But if they can get a smarter voice than Gettleman (that bar is in the Earth's core) the process will improve by default.
I think this year was, finally and mercifully, bottom.
Mara put all personnel decisions squarely on the tandem of Head Coach and General Manager. They are the ones picking the players and John Mara accepts all their choices unless there are outside personal issues. The only rule is that the HC and GM BOTH want the player. Then it's a done deal.
Yes, the HC and GM make the final choices. But they make them based largely on the information and evaluations they get from the Personnel Dept. If the Personnel Dept sucks, the choices are gonna suck
Give me a break John
Quote:
Well, maybe you're right but Alf's contributions are helpful from time to time. So no harm in reading his college player evals, even if not always relied upon.
Jimmy
I just listened to John Mara's press conference. This is what he said about Chris Mara and his player evaluation contributions.
"His grades go into our system and he participates in the draft"
"He is a very skilled evaluator"
"I go to him"
"he does not make the final decision. The General manager and he head coach make the final decision"
So based upon this, it seems that the GM and coach are using Chris' talent evaluation skills (grades) as a factor in deciding who to select. Are you comfortable with this knowing the team has struggled with talent evaluation and Chris has been the common denominator here?
I am comfortable in hiring a new GM who drives the process, whether Chris stays in place or not. My preference is he doesn't but not enough to care.
I’m hoping the next time I literally hear a word out of Mara’s mouth is him accepting the Lombardi.
I hope the only two characters we hear speak on behalf of the Giants for the next ten years are the coach and GM they hire this month.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
Give me a break John
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
It has to start somewhere, and we know it's unlikely family members are moved out this offseason.
I think he was genuinely embarrassed by the state of the team. He seems to have gotten the message that his family's influence on football matters is an issue with fans. He said it wasn't necessary to fire Gettlemen in mid-season, and he was right there too; the damage was done, his contract was up, and nothing was to be gained by throwing the guy out the front door. He was forthright in saying they made a mistake in their hiring process the last time and they were not going to repeat the mistake. He was also forthright in saying he had given the fans little reason to think good decisions will be made.
They have certainly cast a wide net for a GM. So, hopefully he follows through.
Quote:
Pat Leonard
✔
@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara sounds like someone who doesn't intend to make meaningful change with the organization.
He essentially ignores/dodges two questions about allowing GM Dave Gettleman to "retire."
All media was allowed one question, no follow-ups.
Steve Tisch not part of the call.
I don't see the BFD in allowing a 70 yr old to "retire". I'm pretty sure plenty of retirement aged guys have "retired" in similar circumstances (i.e., vs. being fired). We have bigger things to be concerned about, including getting the new GM right.
DR D, the fans want a pound of flesh and a pelt of the wall for this disaster that's why.Firing DG last month would have added accountability
They may be lumped together in his brain as the core of the rotten foundation. That's a good thing.
This is how the Giants do business and it's been how they've done business for several decades. Dan Reeves didn't understand why they needed multiple opinions on each prospect, he described the Giants War Room as the most argumentative place he'd ever been. But the Giants philosophy was to encourage those arguments, they wanted to see which prospects got the most passionate support.
The key is to keep track of who said what and how it worked out for that prospect's NFL career. And I'm quite sure the Giants do that. They would have to be all kinds of incompetent not to. And so Chris Mara's past opinions have been logged and his future opinions will be valued based on his track record, not his last name.
I think you're removing a lot of the human element if you believe it's that simple.This is a guy who wanted to be GM.There have been numerous articles saying he's not involved,one which was very recent.He's gone on radio shows talking about the Giants draft.He still has a job after all the shit that's gone on,and not in the mail room either.
So you add all that up,maybe a few things I'm leaving out,but that's why it's hard to believe.