behind essentially the same offensive line?
QB Rating
Daniel Jones 84.8
Glennon/Fromm ~46.1
Jones Advantage +84%
Pass Completion Percentage
Daniel Jones 64.3%
Glennon/Fromm 51.5%
Jones Advantage +25%
Passing Yards per Attempt
Daniel Jones 6.7
Glennon/Fromm 4.4
Jones Advantage +53%
TDs per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 2.8
Glennon/Fromm 2.2
Jones Advantage +26%
Fumbles per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 1.4
Glennon/Fromm 3.1
Jones Advantage +55%
Fumbles Lost per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones .6
Glennon/Fromm 1.8
Jones Advantage +69%
Sacks per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 6.1
Glennon/Fromm 6.6
Jones Advantage +8%
INTs per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 1.9
Glennon/Fromm 5.7
Jones Advantage +66%
Glennon is a bottom-tier QB who I wouldn't be surprised to see out of football now, and Fromm is a practice squad guy who clearly is not an NFL QB. Being better than them isn't the ringing endorsement you seem to think it is.
Jones is much better than Glennon and Fromm. You could say that about 40 QBs in the NFL.
The things that he is not good at are hard to coach. He runs fast but he is not athletic. He has no fluidity in his movement. He doesn't feel the pass rush well. Basically he does not have "it". It's hard to explain but when you watch other QBs play, things are more fluid. Probably good enough to have a winning record On a good team but that's it IMO.
Never have seen such inept backups
Which is the same signal as the one for the "Jones or Bust" crowd.
But, it may not fit the narrative that you're hoping to get across.
I like DJ, but I believe that his future in NY is, at best, as a place holder for a 2023 rookie or FA. (assuming that he's healthy)
Too funny!
Dada dada dada dada
Dada dada dada dada
BATMAN!
Have you lost your fucking mind?
Jones was 5.62
Herbert was 6.95
Burrow was 7.51, 5.72 his rookie year
Fields was 4.24
Haskins was 4.25 and 4.15 in his WFT days
Glennon 2.00 and Fromm .94
But, it may not fit the narrative that you're hoping to get across.
I like DJ, but I believe that his future in NY is, at best, as a place holder for a 2023 rookie or FA. (assuming that he's healthy)
I agree with you 100%. (But my narrative was not to beat the drum for Daniel Jones long term.) I think you hit the nail on the head about him as a placeholder in 2023. And if he somehow, someway really lights it up and impresses the new regime, then maybe there's a future for him here. But I suspect new blood will demand a new QB.
The game is too fast for No TD Jones. If a competent NFL vet QB is brought in DJ will sit .
Jones was 5.62
Herbert was 6.95
Burrow was 7.51, 5.72 his rookie year
Fields was 4.24
Haskins was 4.25 and 4.15 in his WFT days
Glennon 2.00 and Fromm .94
BTW, does the Burrow number have the Ja'Marr Chase - Tee Higgins Adjustment Factor? (:-)
And have all the QBs been adjusted by the Skura-Price- Hernandez-Solder Factor? (:-)
You, ummm, really nailed it here.
exactly. he is still an asset and you dont just discard it. If new regime wants to blow him out and trade him, fine. But they're not going to just cut the guy.
TDs per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 2.8
Glennon/Fromm 2.2
Jones Advantage +26%
These stats generally confirm my impression that with Jones, the Giants had some success moving the ball, but could not score touchdowns. With the other two, the Giants could not move the ball and obviously could not score touchdowns. Glennon and Fromm are not NFL players. Jones is probably a solid backup.
You, ummm, really nailed it here.
Actually, Mike Glennon was considered a legit back-up QB**; that is, until he came to the Giants and played behind the league's most pathetic offensive line.
**And he's got the stats to prove it.
TDs per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 2.8
Glennon/Fromm 2.2
Jones Advantage +26%
These stats generally confirm my impression that with Jones, the Giants had some success moving the ball, but could not score touchdowns. With the other two, the Giants could not move the ball and obviously could not score touchdowns. Glennon and Fromm are not NFL players. Jones is probably a solid backup.
Your point is well taken. I think part (not all) of the TD pass problem was that we had zero threat of the run game in the red zone, and a lot of our WRs were out or hampered with injuries. That said, I'm not gonna defend Daniel Jones' paltry TD pass total. That's for sure.
TDs per 100 Passing Attempts
Daniel Jones 2.8
Glennon/Fromm 2.2
Jones Advantage +26%
These stats generally confirm my impression that with Jones, the Giants had some success moving the ball, but could not score touchdowns. With the other two, the Giants could not move the ball and obviously could not score touchdowns. Glennon and Fromm are not NFL players. Jones is probably a solid backup.
That's where i'm at.
Quote:
Adjusted net yards per attempt is a better metric than YPA or completion percentage.
Jones was 5.62
Herbert was 6.95
Burrow was 7.51, 5.72 his rookie year
Fields was 4.24
Haskins was 4.25 and 4.15 in his WFT days
Glennon 2.00 and Fromm .94
BTW, does the Burrow number have the Ja'Marr Chase - Tee Higgins Adjustment Factor? (:-)
And have all the QBs been adjusted by the Skura-Price- Hernandez-Solder Factor? (:-)
Just for the record, I think Jones can go elsewhere and succeed. He was also dealt a bad hand coming into the league from a small school and playing with bad receivers, TEs and a OL with four backups.
This stat shows Jones may or may not be the answer. But he also isn't nearly as bad as others have been.
Actually, Mike Glennon was considered a legit back-up QB**; that is, until he came to the Giants and played behind the league's most pathetic offensive line.
**And he's got the stats to prove it.
Let's just cut through all the BS - what's your central thesis here as it relates to Daniel Jones? Do you believe that he's going to be among the best 5-10 QBs in the NFL at any point in his career?
Because unless you believe that, there's no reason to engage in any discussion of his future with the Giants. You need an upper echelon QB in the NFL to be consistently competitive. If you don't have one, you need to find one.
Daniel Jones is near the bottom of NFL QBs. There's no comparison between him and the top tier at that position. None.
We had a brilliant BBIer tell us yesterday that Jones had a lower INT% than Herbert and Allen.
Suggesting, of course, that Jones is in their category.
I think it's an early candidate for post of the year.
Quote:
Adjusted net yards per attempt is a better metric than YPA or completion percentage.
Jones was 5.62
Herbert was 6.95
Burrow was 7.51, 5.72 his rookie year
Fields was 4.24
Haskins was 4.25 and 4.15 in his WFT days
Glennon 2.00 and Fromm .94
BTW, does the Burrow number have the Ja'Marr Chase - Tee Higgins Adjustment Factor? (:-)
And have all the QBs been adjusted by the Skura-Price- Hernandez-Solder Factor? (:-)
Or "primary targets being being Pettis, Colin JOhnson, and Board" factor.
I don't think anyone on this Board has asserted that they know for certain Jones is the QB of the future. Only that it is impossible to tell when primary offensive player when he played were: Skura, Price, Hernandez, Solder, Johnson, Pettis, and Board, who are likely bottom 5 at their respective positions in the league. Along with a raft of players at the 50th percentile at best, such as Engram, Rudolph, and Booker. In other words, aside from Thomas, name one other player on offense would would start for any other team in the league.
Jones is better than a career backup, that’s fine to say. It doesn’t mean he has to be the answer going forward or that he’ll be great.
Things don’t need to be black or white.
As others have noted, Glennon was at least a legit backup until he got to NY (I believe at one point an NFL team gave him a sizable contract to start for them)... so it should be fairly obvious that trying to make a final determination about any Giant QB the past year or so is silly.
anyway, I don't care if we cut him, trade him or have him compete with another QB next year... I have no emotional investment at this point... but the blinders on some people here is staggering.
Quote:
Actually, Mike Glennon was considered a legit back-up QB**; that is, until he came to the Giants and played behind the league's most pathetic offensive line.
**And he's got the stats to prove it.
Let's just cut through all the BS - what's your central thesis here as it relates to Daniel Jones? Do you believe that he's going to be among the best 5-10 QBs in the NFL at any point in his career?
Because unless you believe that, there's no reason to engage in any discussion of his future with the Giants. You need an upper echelon QB in the NFL to be consistently competitive. If you don't have one, you need to find one.
Daniel Jones is near the bottom of NFL QBs. There's no comparison between him and the top tier at that position. None.
Your Words:
Let's just cut through all the BS - what's your central thesis here as it relates to Daniel Jones? Do you believe that he's going to be among the best 5-10 QBs in the NFL at any point in his career?
My Response:
If I had to venture a guess, he will not be a Top 5 QB because that is reserved for Superstars like Rogers, Brady, et. al. and Daniel Jones is simply NOT in that class. Could he be in Top 10? Dunno. But what I do know is that no one knows for certain what his top-end is? If I had to venture a guess -- maybe upper-middle of the pack?
Your Words:
Because unless you believe that, there's no reason to engage in any discussion of his future with the Giants. You need an upper echelon QB in the NFL to be consistently competitive. If you don't have one, you need to find one.
My Response:
I would love an upper echelon QB as much as anyone, but I would love one in the context of a team that is half-way competent. I've seen Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers at their very peak, and I've also seen them when former Giants defenses compressed their pass pockets and put some serious hits on them. They didn't look like super-heroes then. In any event, there are very few super-hero QBs in the NFL, and finding them is no mean feat, so in the meantime I don't see the tragedy of Daniel Jones playing for the Giants in 2022.
Your Words:
Daniel Jones is near the bottom of NFL QBs. There's no comparison between him and the top tier at that position. None.
My Response:
I disagree. He is not near the bottom. Obviously, he does not compare well to guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers... but who does? Your valuation of Daniel Jones has been clouded by the reality that he has played behind a pathetic O-line with WRs and TEs who are indeed near the bottom of the NFL.
I disagree. He is not near the bottom. Obviously, he does not compare well to guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers... but who does? Your valuation of Daniel Jones has been clouded by the reality that he has played behind a pathetic O-line with WRs and TEs who are indeed near the bottom of the NFL.
My valuation of Daniel Jones is based on the fact that he's never been great in his entire life as a QB. He's not instinctive. He's got an average arm and a long delivery. He's not elusive as a runner.
Honestly, what are his PLUS attributes? And if his ceiling (as you suggest) is "upper middle" what are we even talking about? Find someone better.
The die is cast. We know what he is, and that is a middling NFL backup.
I dont think we need him to be a top 5 QB, yes that would be nice but I think he could be between 10-15 which is pretty good and puts him in the playoff group most days.
Im all for brining in an upgrade but I dont see that answer out there. Is a Garapolo an upgrade? Hes going to cost a lot. I see him probably on the similar level to Jones.
Jones was not the main problem with this O. It was the lack of consistent talent around him and a dreadful OL. Our playcalling was terrible too. It was just a complete mess.
I think season 1 of the new regime needs to be brining ina supporting cast with the draft capital that we have. We should be able to get 2 future studs and 2 additional starters from this draft. This new regime has the chance to set this franchise up with a team of young talent. We basically got nothing out of this past draft except for Ojulari. Hopefuly Toney comes around and we have a few other pieces take a leap and we are back in business. Dont rush the QB situation if its not there.
Quote:
I disagree. He is not near the bottom. Obviously, he does not compare well to guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers... but who does? Your valuation of Daniel Jones has been clouded by the reality that he has played behind a pathetic O-line with WRs and TEs who are indeed near the bottom of the NFL.
My valuation of Daniel Jones is based on the fact that he's never been great in his entire life as a QB. He's not instinctive. He's got an average arm and a long delivery. He's not elusive as a runner.
Honestly, what are his PLUS attributes? And if his ceiling (as you suggest) is "upper middle" what are we even talking about? Find someone better.
True, he has never been "great," but he had a pretty good rookie season; indeed, some of his rookie stats were quite strong.
As for him not being "instinctive," I tend to agree... he seems to get mechanical, and his movement skills are not what I would call "fluid."
He does have a long delivery, but I disagree about his arm strength. He has plenty of arm, although I think his arm strength is negated somewhat on the run because maybe he is somewhat stiff in his movements.
My fundamental disagreement is that you have a bi-modal view of Daniel Jones, which is in full evidence with this statement of yours:
"And if his ceiling (as you suggest) is "upper middle" what are we even talking about?"
It's almost as though you are saying, "If he isn't great, I don't want him!" But that's not realistic. In any given season, teams win all the time without having a Top 5 or Top 10 QB. IMO, Daniel Jones had plenty of talent to be a winning QB, but not with a franchise that has no O-Line nor any real viable threat at TE and WR.
But this analysis says Daniel Jones is better than the worst QBs to start for the Giants since the forward pass. Whoop de doo. I'm sorry you wasted your time on this.
Everyone should be on board with whatever the new GM decides to do about the QBs. The last admin got the most important part of the roster as wrong as you can get it.
I thought that’s what this was going to be. Sigh
That is so lame to prove some shitty little point about Jones that you have to pick on Glennon; a guy who started 3 games ; had top play with a concussion in the first one and broke his wrist and needs surgery in the 3rd one when this team basically gave up and got the coach fired.
So lame. Jones sucks. We've seen Glennon play better. Where did you see Jones play better except in the minds eye of some alternate universe where rookie QBs shed their warts of 39 turnovers and only 3 wins but still keep up the meaningless stats.
Precisely.
Ahhh... I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting THAT. But there is a decent chance Daniel Jones is the New York Giants starter for the opening game of the 2022 Season. Perhaps what we should be most concerned about: He starts behind a line comprised of Skura-Price-Hernandez-Solder.