So how did Daniel Jones perform relative to his successors

Be tge guy who's son said Daniel Jones is the best QB in the NFL because of how he performed on this team vs the other great names that played for the Giants this season. He is on a full rant to educate us all on how great Jones is. So best listen, he is educating.

In comment 15549881 Producer said:

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In comment 15549817 M.S. said: Quote: In comment 15549763 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15549444 M.S. said: Quote: In comment 15549424 Producer said: Quote: Bottom 10 QBs are a collection of failed journeymen, stopgaps and a few rookies. the rookies will make a tier bump in the next year or two, If they don't they become stopgaps. That's what Daniel Jones is. He is in the tier with transitory starters like Tyrod Taylor and backups like Trubisky. He is nowhere near the tier of pretty good starters which includes Carr and Cousins. Nowhere near it. This season in head-to-head competition, Danile Jones beat Derek Carr and also out-performed him. I think you know this is a lame argument. Superior QBs lose games to inferior QBs all the time. Earlier this season, Tom Brady lost a game to Taysom Hill. Do we really think that makes Taysom Hill better than Tom Brady? It's a fatuous, dishonest point you are making and wastes time. If this is what you need to pump up Daniel Jones, then even you don't believe what you are saying. Either you have not read all my remarks on this thread or perhaps you misunderstood them. Whatever. Below is a paste of my responses to an earlier post. This pretty much summarizes my view of Daniel Jones. Your Words: Let's just cut through all the BS - what's your central thesis here as it relates to Daniel Jones? Do you believe that he's going to be among the best 5-10 QBs in the NFL at any point in his career? My Response: If I had to venture a guess, he will not be a Top 5 QB because that is reserved for Superstars like Rogers, Brady, et. al. and Daniel Jones is simply NOT in that class. Could he be in Top 10? Dunno. But what I do know is that no one knows for certain what his top-end is? If I had to venture a guess -- maybe upper-middle of the pack? Your Words: Because unless you believe that, there's no reason to engage in any discussion of his future with the Giants. You need an upper echelon QB in the NFL to be consistently competitive. If you don't have one, you need to find one. My Response: I would love an upper echelon QB as much as anyone, but I would love one in the context of a team that is half-way competent. I've seen Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers at their very peak, and I've also seen them when former Giants defenses compressed their pass pockets and put some serious hits on them. They didn't look like super-heroes then. In any event, there are very few super-hero QBs in the NFL, and finding them is no mean feat, so in the meantime I don't see the tragedy of Daniel Jones playing for the Giants in 2022. Your Words: Daniel Jones is near the bottom of NFL QBs. There's no comparison between him and the top tier at that position. None. My Response: I disagree. He is not near the bottom. Obviously, he does not compare well to guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers... but who does? Your valuation of Daniel Jones has been clouded by the reality that he has played behind a pathetic O-line with WRs and TEs who are indeed near the bottom of the NFL. You may not agree that he is bottom 10, but the numbers say he is. And it is a consistent set of numbers across his entire career. This is a common tactic here. Say Jones isn't as good as brady or Rodgers but then say he belongs in the next tier. He does not. He is nowhere close to the top12. Please do us all a favor and go to Pro Football reference 2021 passing stats and sort each column, one at a time. Notice in almost every category Jones is btween 22 and 27. Jones is not only, not in the Brady/rodgers convo. he is not in the Herbert convo He is not in the Burrow convo he is not in the Wilson convo he is not in the Cousins convo He is not in the Carr convo see I'm going far down the list now... He is not even in the Garropolo convo Tua has now passed Jones. Soon Lawrence will pass Jones. You might want to tie the neck of the Giants franchise to this anvil for another 5 years. It has to stop. He is our biggest problem. Daniel Jones is a coach killer. And I am quite certain Joe Judge regrets ever agreeing that Jones should be the QB of this team.

I understand how you feel about Daniel Jones, which can be summarized as follows:

(1) He sucks;
(2) Even with a good offensive line and a healthy set of fine receivers, he still would suck.

That is why I disagree with your opinion about Daniel Jones.

my arguments are rooted in facts and data.

And your arguments are rooted in fantasy, speculation, and wishful thinking,

It's wishful thinking that got us into this mess.

In comment 15550173 Producer said:

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my arguments are rooted in facts and data. And your arguments are rooted in fantasy, speculation, and wishful thinking, It's wishful thinking that got us into this mess.

Fact:. We have the bottom tier talent on the OLine and receiver corps. Compound that with terrible coaching and you get an offensive year like this. Every game we won this year was because of Jones

So Jones pumpers why does Jones get the benefit of the doubt?

The Panthers oline is dreadful -- would you be willing to give Darnold the benefit of the doubt? Of course not. You say he sucks, and glad the Giants didn't draft him and , laugh at Rhule at Carolina for paying him. And at least you can say Darnold was a top prospect coming out.

So why doesn't that apply to jones as well? Especially considering new coach and GM will now have to inherit him like Judge did. 2 coaches ago!

It is rebuild time ; new GM time ; new coach time and yes new QB time. Especially considering that all the decent players on this team are free agents anyway so jones is the only thing to wheel and deal on roster moves.

In comment 15550812 Debaser said:

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So Jones pumpers why does Jones get the benefit of the doubt? The Panthers oline is dreadful -- would you be willing to give Darnold the benefit of the doubt? Of course not. You say he sucks, and glad the Giants didn't draft him and , laugh at Rhule at Carolina for paying him. And at least you can say Darnold was a top prospect coming out. So why doesn't that apply to jones as well? Especially considering new coach and GM will now have to inherit him like Judge did. 2 coaches ago! It is rebuild time ; new GM time ; new coach time and yes new QB time. Especially considering that all the decent players on this team are free agents anyway so jones is the only thing to wheel and deal on roster moves.

Your opening statement is misguided, and like a few others on this thread you can only think of Daniel Jones in bi-modal terms -- either he sucks or he doesn't suck. You simply will not allow for any middle-ground or nuanced view of Daniel Jones.

In a similar vein, just because a poster is not in your "suck camp" -- that doesn't mean he must be a "Jones pumper." That's a very limited view of things and simply not how it works.

In any event, I see you mentioned that it's rebuild time with a new GM and a new HC, thus a new QB. In the link below you will see I started a thread this morning that speculated this point exactly, and I'm supposedly one of your "Daniel Jones "pumpers."

Your Biggest NYG Draft Surprise Round One - ( New Window )

In comment 15550897 M.S. said:

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In comment 15550812 Debaser said: Quote: So Jones pumpers why does Jones get the benefit of the doubt? The Panthers oline is dreadful -- would you be willing to give Darnold the benefit of the doubt? Of course not. You say he sucks, and glad the Giants didn't draft him and , laugh at Rhule at Carolina for paying him. And at least you can say Darnold was a top prospect coming out. So why doesn't that apply to jones as well? Especially considering new coach and GM will now have to inherit him like Judge did. 2 coaches ago! It is rebuild time ; new GM time ; new coach time and yes new QB time. Especially considering that all the decent players on this team are free agents anyway so jones is the only thing to wheel and deal on roster moves. Your opening statement is misguided, and like a few others on this thread you can only think of Daniel Jones in bi-modal terms -- either he sucks or he doesn't suck. You simply will not allow for any middle-ground or nuanced view of Daniel Jones. In a similar vein, just because a poster is not in your "suck camp" -- that doesn't mean he must be a "Jones pumper." That's a very limited view of things and simply not how it works. In any event, I see you mentioned that it's rebuild time with a new GM and a new HC, thus a new QB. In the link below you will see I started a thread this morning that speculated this point exactly, and I'm supposedly one of your "Daniel Jones "pumpers." Your Biggest NYG Draft Surprise Round One - ( New Window )

So we passed on herbert because we are committed to Jones and we are going to draft another QB in the top 10 but play Jones more?

And I am somehow obtuse because I am making Jones pumpers out to be irrational but, it is really me who irrational?

THere are backups in this league better than Jones. Glennon might not be one of them. But others are -- Minshew ; Kyle Allen even; A Dalton; Nick Foles just to name 4. But instead of acknowledging this you make a comparison to a Glennon or Fromm a fourth stringer they started because everyone else . So I am mis-characterizing that as pumping?

Why don't you answer the question-- why doesn't Darnold get this? Every argument oline etc can be made about Darnold.