I think the Daniel Jones we saw against New Orleans this year is the real Daniel Jones. In fact after that game, few of us were questioning whether or not he was our guy. That game showed that:
1) He can make the different throws and has good arm strength
2) He can handle the pressure
3) He can protect the ball
4) He has poise
Those are what you need in an NFL starting QB.
All aspects of the team were clicking on that day and with protection, a good game plan, and healthy weapons, there's no reason he can't live up to our expectations of him.
This is definitely not true.
No I agree, but looking at his maturing process and progress to that point, one could easily say he was "getting it". Obviously the injuries after that derailed him, but I think it's hard to deny the progress was there.
We saw what we needed over three years:
1) He can tease with some good down field plays and with his legs but there are huge gaps between those plays and moments.
2) He is better about turning the ball over but when he does it is pretty pathetic- see TB game.
3) We just do not score points with Jones at QB.
4) he misses a lot of games and that has hindered his growth a lot.
5) This injury, which says he can't have contact until Aug - I know what contact would he have right now anyway- is probably worse than we know.
Jones cannot be counted on health wise and certainly not play wise even with improvement on the Oline.
I give you that yes, especially the injuries. We were SPOILED with Eli Manning. Hell weren't even Phil Simms's first few seasons marred by injuries?
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1 game is not the whole picture.
No I agree, but looking at his maturing process and progress to that point, one could easily say he was "getting it". Obviously the injuries after that derailed him, but I think it's hard to deny the progress was there.
Mediocre players have excellent games sometimes. Mitch Trubisky has 15 games with a passer rating above 102. Was he getting it?
I suspect he's not at either extreme of QB play so one of those guys that can hang around a long time in the league maybe as an OK starter or maybe as a pretty good back-up, and that needs to be sorted out.
1. the neck injury is clearly serious and could be a career-ender. we just wouldn't know it yet because the giants would want to keep it under wraps until after FA and/or the draft. we'll have to see how this plays out. even if healthy, his durability has to be a concern.
2. he has to learn how to win, and that aint easy.
3. if seeing how poorly the backups played didn't convince you that Jones was on a much higher level, i don't know what would. he had almost nothing to work with, yet still kept them in most games.
4. assuming he can play again, a fresh evaluation from a new gm and coach is a good thing and i'm excited to see how it plays out
1. the neck injury is clearly serious and could be a career-ender. we just wouldn't know it yet because the giants would want to keep it under wraps until after FA and/or the draft. we'll have to see how this plays out. even if healthy, his durability has to be a concern.
2. he has to learn how to win, and that aint easy.
3. if seeing how poorly the backups played didn't convince you that Jones was on a much higher level, i don't know what would. he had almost nothing to work with, yet still kept them in most games.
4. assuming he can play again, a fresh evaluation from a new gm and coach is a good thing and i'm excited to see how it plays out
Agree with all. Well said.
it isn't.
The real Daniel Jones is:
inaccurate
poor in the pocket
has poor pocket movement
doesn't feel pressure
holds the ball too long
has limited arm ability
subject to mental miscues
bird dogs receivers
doesn't have a feel for progressions
throws to the wrong side of WRs
can't manage a 2 minute offense
can't lead a high scoring offense.
I could go on.
It's about doing it consistently. For all of the complaints about the personnel around him and the scheme he was in, why was he able to play so well in that game (I'll give him the WFT game too) and not in others? Did the scheme change? Did the personnel play worse?
It will be up to the new brass to decide Jones's future. My guess is, given the cap situation and the relative lack of sure-fire QB prospects in the draft, that Jones will be back next year (health permitting), hopefully with a quality vet to compete with him. If he as another up and down year, are we going to continue to get these threads about how he is being hampered by the personnel around him, or poor coaching, or both?
Maybe it's him. Maybe he just isn't good enough to lift a marginal roster to greater heights. That would tell me he's not the guy to lead us back into contention.
I suspect he's not at either extreme of QB play so one of those guys that can hang around a long time in the league maybe as an OK starter or maybe as a pretty good back-up, and that needs to be sorted out.
good post. I'm not in the Jones Sucks camp. I think if they get a competent OC and average OL play he can end up in the 11-16 area of 32 QBs. The bigger issue to me right now is if can he stay healthy. If not, then none of the other stuff matters. He's going to get next year to prove himself. We'll see what happens.
It's about doing it consistently. For all of the complaints about the personnel around him and the scheme he was in, why was he able to play so well in that game (I'll give him the WFT game too) and not in others? Did the scheme change? Did the personnel play worse?
It will be up to the new brass to decide Jones's future. My guess is, given the cap situation and the relative lack of sure-fire QB prospects in the draft, that Jones will be back next year (health permitting), hopefully with a quality vet to compete with him. If he as another up and down year, are we going to continue to get these threads about how he is being hampered by the personnel around him, or poor coaching, or both?
Maybe it's him. Maybe he just isn't good enough to lift a marginal roster to greater heights. That would tell me he's not the guy to lead us back into contention.
Fair points.
He showed some signs but it was never enough. Was he in the best spot? No. But it doesn't matter anymore.
Besides, even if he was a star we would have a huge problem on our hands with his health. I give him credit because he's got balls and is tough as nails but he made a habit out of taking on defenders and as a QB, you just have to learn you can't do that.
For the record I'm curious about Pickett.
No one.
The big lesson I hope the franchise as a whole learns is that they need to give the next QB a far better environment in every aspect for him to have the best chance.
GM figure out what to do with Daniel
I think with a new scheme we could have another Kerry Collins but this guy's needs to play video games or something to get his brain thinking faster
No one.
ever hear of Phil Simms? 3-12-1 and seriously injured every one of the 1st five years of his career. bet on himself in 1984, went into the season on the last year of his contract in his 6th year and turned into the leader they needed on offense.
If you like Jones you can find enough good plays to support your beliefs.
If you don't like him you can find enough bad plays to support your beliefs.
For every N.O. there is a TB 2021 game, where with two weeks of prep he was absolutely awful. Sometimes the pendulum swings withing the same game.
But at the end of the day he is not consistent enough to be anything more than average.
Or we overpay for some veteran which thanks to Gettlehead we have zero cap space.
Key is to progress defense and get a new scheme for Jones. Plus sadly, he would do best with a stronger O-Line, but that's not coming soon. So we need a runner for 3 years at least. We saw how the pocket passers did last 5 games
I’m sure Sy will give an overall wrap at some point. My impression is that you can win with him, but not because of him on any consistent basis. But how many QBs can be that difference maker, and how often do they come around? Seems to me the average is about one a year, with probably half the league in the market at any given time.
In other words, don’t dump Jones until you have a better option.
Yeah I am pretty sure that is how the scientific process works. Great suggestion.
"Why Giants QB Daniel Jones will ultimately define how Dave Gettleman is remembered"
Ralph Vacchiano
Tue, January 11, 2022, 8:37 AM
I thought this article was very well done. Comprehensive, fair and balanced.
Link - ( New Window )
It's a QB-driven league. If you have a top 10-top 15 QB, you make the playoffs.
But solid line makes average players good and good players great.
I feel bad for these young guys, starting—and maybe ending—their careers on the shittiest team.
First take? seriously? Let's hire a professional GM and scouts and see what they say.
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is that when talking about the Giants and the questions come up "what is their biggest need", the QB is always the answer for many of the analysts. Ryan Clark said QB was the Giants biggest need, the people on First Take were saying Giants don't have a QB, people will reference the OL in passing "yeah the OL is bad, it needs to be fixed, but it always comes around back to the QB. People on ESPN/FOX feel Jones is a bigger problem than the OL. Why is that?
It's a QB-driven league. If you have a top 10-top 15 QB, you make the playoffs.
Aaron Rodgers is one of the best if not the best to ever play. He has fewer championships than ELi. It's a team game.
His ceiling was supposed to be Ryan Tannehill but Tannehill made a leap from his first to his second year as he did in college. Jones has gone backward, is basically the same player he was in college, and is not hitting that ceiling.
Jones is a nice kid, overdrafted in the first round. Let's stop wasting time acting like he can be a franchise qb. The New Orleans game was an aberration, not a trend.
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and is able to turn it around with same franchise from the depths DJ is currently mired in.
No one.
ever hear of Phil Simms? 3-12-1 and seriously injured every one of the 1st five years of his career. bet on himself in 1984, went into the season on the last year of his contract in his 6th year and turned into the leader they needed on offense.
It’s not 1986 any longer. You don’t have 6 years to decide on a QB. At most, you have 4. We’ll see if the new regime sees fit to give DJ that 4th year, but that will be his last chance as a Giant.
Aaron Rodgers is one of the best if not the best to ever play. He has fewer championships than ELi. It's a team game.
The Packers have 10+ wins in 10 of Rodgers 14 years as starter. Would that be true without him?
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In comment 15548659 Dnew15 said:
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and is able to turn it around with same franchise from the depths DJ is currently mired in.
No one.
ever hear of Phil Simms? 3-12-1 and seriously injured every one of the 1st five years of his career. bet on himself in 1984, went into the season on the last year of his contract in his 6th year and turned into the leader they needed on offense.
It’s not 1986 any longer. You don’t have 6 years to decide on a QB. At most, you have 4. We’ll see if the new regime sees fit to give DJ that 4th year, but that will be his last chance as a Giant.
FYI Simms missed all of 1982, wasn't the starter at beginning of 1983 and when he replaced Brunner he destroys his thumb in game and is gone for the year. So Simms wasn't 3-12-1 he barely played in that season and zero games the year before.
Again, this isn't the 80's however.
Simms won his first five starts of his rookie year.[9] He led the team to a 6–4 record as a starter, throwing for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes and was named to the NFL All Rookie Team.[10] He was runner-up in 1979 for Rookie of the Year, losing out to future teammate, Ottis Anderson.[11]
And like Danny "Dimes" is Phil Simms now?
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In comment 15548727 shadow_spinner0 said:
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is that when talking about the Giants and the questions come up "what is their biggest need", the QB is always the answer for many of the analysts. Ryan Clark said QB was the Giants biggest need, the people on First Take were saying Giants don't have a QB, people will reference the OL in passing "yeah the OL is bad, it needs to be fixed, but it always comes around back to the QB. People on ESPN/FOX feel Jones is a bigger problem than the OL. Why is that?
It's a QB-driven league. If you have a top 10-top 15 QB, you make the playoffs.
Aaron Rodgers is one of the best if not the best to ever play. He has fewer championships than ELi. It's a team game.
They are in the playoffs because Rodgers is there.
They have a chance every year.
I know that, but the team was in disarray, he finished the last of 4 straight seasons on the IR with a broken thumb, and many people (me included) wondered if he was just plain cursed with injuries and would never make it. I felt sorry for him. Then in 1984 they straightened out the OL and he turned it around.
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1 game is not the whole picture.
No I agree, but looking at his maturing process and progress to that point, one could easily say he was "getting it". Obviously the injuries after that derailed him, but I think it's hard to deny the progress was there.
What progress?
He stopped fumbling upon hearing someone breathe within 5 feet of him?
I'm willing to consider that he's been handcuffed by a shitshow, but please don't ask any intelligent people to pretend that he's shown any progress.
He's the same guy he was in college, and there has been ONE outlier season that has given some fans hope. Just go look at what Shurmur was able to get from Case Keenum in 2017. It's eerily similar to what he got from Jones in 2019. Say what you will about Shurmur, but he's historically been able to get productivity out of mediocre QBs.
Are you cool with hitching your wagon to Case Keenum redux?