Aside from the horrible optics it made some sense. I am sick of everyone pointing to that as an indictment on Judge. It is an indictment on the players - and they deserve it!
The defense was busting ass and playing well and keeping the Giants in the game. The offense was horrible and had been horrible for really the whole year but especially the past couple weeks.
There were several recent examples of the offense giving up a safety or turning the ball over deep in our territory. They had just mucked up the previous play. The running game cannot be counted on to even get back to the line of scrimmage.
If I am on defense I am thinking just punt the ball and let us try to make something happen, or at least change the field position. Judge, who was losing his mind anyway, is angry and says F this shit just run a sneak. Can you run an F'n sneak? This is pathetic, I like my defense vs the WFT offense matchup better. Many of them will be back next year and very few of the offensive guys will. Who do you want to support?
He punts and as it turns out the defense gets a three and out and the offense gets the ball back at the 20. It actually worked out.
The problem is the optics and why is the offense THAT bad? The players say it shows no faith in your offense. Well F them - earn that faith. The offense was actually losing games with turnovers and pick 6s. Reference the first play of the Bears game. So BBI who had any faith in the offense? I actually think the chance of disaster were much higher than the chance of getting a first down. End rant,
I would have let the next GM make the decision on Judge rather than firing him outright, but the double sneak was unacceptable.
It may not be truly fair, but when your steering the ship, every little bit in the public eye matters. You may have to BS, your getting paid to eat Sh$T at times, its part of the job description.
Two points is just WAYYY too much of a lead for our offense to overcome though...
I still would have run a play on third down. The one thing Saquon Barkley does well (or used to, at least) is break big gains on the rare occasions when he reaches the second level. It was worth a try. And yes, I realize the more likely result was a three-yard loss followed by a punt from a compressed set.
I mean come on.
From a pragmatic standpoint, the choice was either a sneak or a 50-yard hanging bomb to midfield. If it got picked, it would be as good as a punt. If not, no harm. Maybe we'd luck out with a pass interference call, but with our luck it would be called against us.
I think this is exactly the sort of thing that showed Judge's inexperience. If he ever faces this again – someday, somewhere – he'll make a better call.
Every week the results were the same. Defense came to play initially and usually keep it manageable if the offense was even half way competent but the werent' and the results were not very competitive double digit loss.
With nothing to lose we tried this strategy over and over with same results. The offensive players see there is no confidence in them and the defense grows tired of the pressure to carry the game series after series.
For a coach who came in preaching ability to adapt we employed the same pathetic losing strategy week after week to the same pathetic results. For a coach who preached putting players in position to be successful he set his defense up for failure week after week and only gave his offense opportunity to not blow it, unsuccessfully at that. For a coach who preaches teaching, the only thing he taught his team is that he has no confidence in them and will do his best to keep it to as close a loss as possible. Even the worst NFL players come from a background of being the best players at every level they have played. Instead of challenging or inspiring that he threw in the towel in the most obvious of ways. And that's the surest way to lose your team.
Judge was right. Crappy OL cannot block for a run or pass play that deep. WR that cannot get separation, TEs who drop passes, WRs who won’t layout to catch balls. Unfortunately, you can’t play it too safe like that in the NFL.
That being said they still had a pick-6.
Overall, zero offense since Jones got injured.
Aaron Rogers’ comment likely set Mara throwing more chairs…
Trust your initial intuition and feeling when it happened - it was embarrassing and completely unacceptable.
hey, don't diss Army v. Yale 1933! :-)
If you are a QB you have to shake off an INT. If you are a CB you have to shake off a big play allowed.
Give me a break about managing the game around a safety the PREVIOUS week. One safety. MAYBE if it was two you could say ok. But it wasn't. And despite the safety you had a 100 yard rusher last week so can it with the woe is me we can't do anything bullshit.
This was the worst offense the Giants have EVER had and I have seen some very bad NYG offenses. There was literally NO HOPE. Nothing to look forward to watching when we had the ball.
Giants fans appear to be adopting the loser mentality of the franchise.
This was the worst offense the Giants have EVER had and I have seen some very bad NYG offenses. There was literally NO HOPE. Nothing to look forward to watching when we had the ball.
BTW - Losing it in mid-game is also unacceptable.
Giants fans appear to be adopting the loser mentality of the franchise.
+1
Giants fans appear to be adopting the loser mentality of the franchise.
The only defense is that they were tanking for draft picks, but that’s not what he was doing.
He was throwing a hissy fit and had given up.
I really liked Judge at first, I thought he had a lot going for him, but his in game decisions and playing not to lose was irredeemable. Those two plays capture it perfectly.
Time to move on
The first problem is that Joe Judge did not prove himself to be Bill Belichick and nobody would describe the Giants as a smart or disciplined/fundamentally sound team. So we time again ended up on the losing end of those games. Close, but no cigar. Second, even with that kind of approach, there has to be a recognition of when its time to take a shot. I think Judge completely lacked a feel for this. In short, Judge's approach turned into coaching to lose close games. Better to lose by 3-7 by playing safely than 14-20 taking chances.
IMO, there was no scenario where those sneaks gave the Giants a chance to win....only a chance to minimize damage. And THAT is why they were indefensible. They were Joe Judge and staff saying, "We can't think of any way to help this offense and so we're not even going to try." You can't stand at the podium talking about how the defining characteristic of the team and you as a coach is that the players won't quit and then turn around and essentially quit on them.
You can run the ball. You can run the ultimately "I give up" play and run a draw. Same result without literally declaring to the world you give up. Of course it was the worst call ever.
You can run the ball. You can run the ultimately "I give up" play and run a draw. Same result without literally declaring to the world you give up. Of course it was the worst call ever.
LOL. This is brilliant. "Instead of running *that* "We give up" playcall, they should've run *my* "We give up" playcall! Anyone who disagrees with me must be trolling!"
Again, the travesty of the double sneak sequence was not the playcalling - it was the fact that our offense was so inept that the playcalling was actually defensible.
And for people who concede that point and argue that it's Judge's fault the offense was so inept, that's fine. But then why didn't Judge get due credit for when the defense played well and kept us in the game?
You have a shit team. With a shit record. You don't try o win the 18th game of the season with a field position approach.
It's so incredibly misguided, it is a firing offense.
And when has a handoff on a simple draw play ever gone badly for this franchise?
You have a shit team. With a shit record. You don't try o win the 18th game of the season with a field position approach.
It's so incredibly misguided, it is a firing offense.
If the offense is so terrible that you had no other viable options, then yeah, you do try to win with a field position approach. Throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition in the last game of the year only works when you have something resembling a kitchen sink to throw in the first place.
It's so strange that people don't see the throughline from earlier in the season. Every time Judge punted at midfield or plus territory, we were seeing the same philosophy at work. He knew perfectly well his offense wasn't reliable enough to convert most 4th downs, and the way to victory was by playing field position and letting his defense try to make a play.
Giants fans appear to be adopting the loser mentality of the franchise.
This what kind of stupid game plan is it to run a victory formation play in 2nd Quarter when down on a 3rd and 9?
Are you so stupid that you didn't plan for 3rd and 9?
It shows that he didn't address it in practice and then panicked when the same situation happened again. JJ wanted to make sure he didn't look like an idiot (again), with another safety, and instead looked like a bigger idiot with a Pop Warner coaching move.
There's a reason it became national news the minute it happened...because it's unacceptable in the NFL.
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It will never make sense.
You have a shit team. With a shit record. You don't try o win the 18th game of the season with a field position approach.
It's so incredibly misguided, it is a firing offense.
If the offense is so terrible that you had no other viable options, then yeah, you do try to win with a field position approach. Throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition in the last game of the year only works when you have something resembling a kitchen sink to throw in the first place.
It's so strange that people don't see the throughline from earlier in the season. Every time Judge punted at midfield or plus territory, we were seeing the same philosophy at work. He knew perfectly well his offense wasn't reliable enough to convert most 4th downs, and the way to victory was by playing field position and letting his defense try to make a play.
Field position football is losing football. It is not something to aspire to. You need to focus on building a winning formula.
The win is meaningless, so embarrassing yourself, and the franchise, with 2 QB sneaks, to win a meaningless game through field position, is a narrow and reductive view of the job. And by the way he still got shellacked by a shitty team.
Sorry you don't see it. It was a small decision by a small minded man.
He got a raw deal, anybody with eyes and a brain could see that. That doesn't mean you can't evaluate him. I feel bad for him in some ways but am perfectly fine moving on from his one-man crusade to actually make Special Teams 1/3 of the game.
No one would have said anything if they would have handed the ball to Booker instead sneaking Fromm. The comments would have been they're afraid to let Fromm throw the ball and he demonstrated why a little later in the game.
There is no way to sell giving up to the locker room. He might have been, probably would have been, fired anyway but after that he was dead coach walking. Between running an offense that had no chance to score in the teens after Jones got hurt, the 2 QB sneaks and the meltdown in front of the media where he touched the 3rd rail about Shurmur and Washington he had to be replaced or IMO next year would have been another double digit loss season.
What would have happened if they kept Judge and started 0-2 again?
Quote:
In comment 15549116 Producer said:
Quote:
It will never make sense.
You have a shit team. With a shit record. You don't try o win the 18th game of the season with a field position approach.
It's so incredibly misguided, it is a firing offense.
If the offense is so terrible that you had no other viable options, then yeah, you do try to win with a field position approach. Throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition in the last game of the year only works when you have something resembling a kitchen sink to throw in the first place.
It's so strange that people don't see the throughline from earlier in the season. Every time Judge punted at midfield or plus territory, we were seeing the same philosophy at work. He knew perfectly well his offense wasn't reliable enough to convert most 4th downs, and the way to victory was by playing field position and letting his defense try to make a play.
Field position football is losing football. It is not something to aspire to. You need to focus on building a winning formula.
The win is meaningless, so embarrassing yourself, and the franchise, with 2 QB sneaks, to win a meaningless game through field position, is a narrow and reductive view of the job. And by the way he still got shellacked by a shitty team.
Sorry you don't see it. It was a small decision by a small minded man.
Nobody is suggesting that playing field position football was Judge's aspiration. We're suggesting that, after years of poor talent evaluation and a brutal rash of injuries, field position football was what we were left with.
People talk so blithely about football being a results oriented business, where wins and losses are all that matter, and coaches need to put their teams in the best position to win. But then they meet a coach who, for all his faults, actually lives by those principles, and could give fuck-all about the optics of certain decisions, and look how quickly these same people abandon those arguments.
Giants fans appear to be adopting the loser mentality of the franchise.
this! most embarrassing thing I have seen from my teams and im a knicks, mets and isles fan and I have seen some embarrassing shit.
I get that ultimately it accomplished the goal - no disaster, punt and we get the ball back and try again. But honestly, that method of accomplishing the goal is so damn conservative and shows that you feel there is no better option in your playbook, that is just pathetic no matter how you try to justify it. And it admits there there was no better way to go, nothing that could get you the next set of downs. That's not a team I want to root for. We can be and need to be better than that.
This team needs talent on offense and to have players in place that compliment eachother. No identity…any coach can try to put an identity in place that’s fits the team but if the players suck it doesn’t matter. I’ve watched the giants lineup with heavy personnel 7 on the line and the defense has 6 and they get stopped in the backfield or at the line how is that the coaches fault a player misses a block completely. And it’s never just one player it’s a different one each time. This offense is bad. I kid you not this is the worse offense I’ve ever watched in my 25 years of watching football.