You can't have an owner both below and above the GM on the org chart. It has to be one or the other. How do you all fail to see how this is one of the major issues as it creates multiple conflicts of power at the same time.
You can't have an owner both below and above the GM on the org chart. It has to be one or the other. How do you all fail to see how this is one of the major issues as it creates multiple conflicts of power at the same time.
It doesn't look good but if he doesn't really do anything different than an active owner would, who cares...
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
Using that logic, all of the owners (all the little Maras and Tischs) should be in the room.
You want Chris Mara having a of say on the next GM based on Chris' "personnel expertise?"
No, that isn't the logic. The other owners are not involved as these three, nor do interviews really work with 20 people asking questions even if they were.
Not sure I care if Chris is the room anymore than Steve or John. How is he creating a problem?
Using that logic, all of the owners (all the little Maras and Tischs) should be in the room.
You want Chris Mara having a of say on the next GM based on Chris' "personnel expertise?"
To be honest, I'm not sure I really trust the decisionmaking abilities of ANY of the guys in the room. I don't mind Chris Mara being in the room for the interview. Of the three, whatever you think of his personnel expertise, he is still probably the most qualified to consider a candidates personnel chops. So I could see why his insight there would be viewed as valuable.
That said, the bigger issue for me is what is his role going forward under the new GM and whether or not THAT discussion is part of the process. In terms of the specific issue of him being in the room, I'd say that's probably the only troubling aspect...doesn't seem likely someone's getting hired saying "owners need to be out of the football decisions" if one of the guys that impacts is sitting right there making the decision. Could it happen? Sure. But I suspect that's not where we're headed.
If you were Joe Schoen, wouldn't you want Chris Mara there so you can ask him questions about his relationship to you and your role? Any candidate would 1000% want that.
If you were Joe Schoen, wouldn't you want Chris Mara there so you can ask him questions about his relationship to you and your role? Any candidate would 1000% want that.
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
If you were Joe Schoen, wouldn't you want Chris Mara there so you can ask him questions about his relationship to you and your role? Any candidate would 1000% want that.
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
And CM changing his role would come bout, how exactly? That would have to be part of the conversation/negotiation, no?
If you were Joe Schoen, wouldn't you want Chris Mara there so you can ask him questions about his relationship to you and your role? Any candidate would 1000% want that.
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
John Mara described what the new GM would do in his comment earlier this week. You posted it yourself.
Maybe some candidates will discuss the Chris Mara role (maybe they won't) but to suggest you wouldn't take the interview and just inquire about it if it was such a mitigating issue for the GM role is not even logical.
He is the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel on the worst team in the NFL. He has been directly involved in the franchise becoming a joke.
He's not "just an owner."
Let me ask you this. In your view, would it be a good thing or a bad thing to hire a GM who is aligned with ownership's thinking?
The problem with Chris Mara as SVP of Player Personnel he will usurp any decisions the GM will have and this will scare away candidates from accepting the position.
the problem with Chris Mara as SVP of Player Personnel. We are debating the problem with Chris Mara the owner being part of the interview process for hiring the next GM of the team.
I'm not sure that most of you have noticed, but NYG is undergoing an organizational change.
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
It would be a million times worse to say one thing to the candidate in an interview and not have CM in the room to hear it and not be sure that everyone's understanding is the same. You people are nuts. For all the reasons concerning the lack of clarity over his position and the situation is 1000% of the reason Chris Mara HAS to be in the room. You are out of your mind if you don't see that.
That John Mara is considering giving up as the lead owner? He's getting up there in years, and may want to groom Chris to take over.
It does bring up the issue of succession, if something did happen to JM. Would there be a power struggle between Chris and Tim, or would the NFL have to step in? Since we don't know the arrangement, it's all speculation, but an interesting one at that.
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
It would be a million times worse to say one thing to the candidate in an interview and not have CM in the room to hear it and not be sure that everyone's understanding is the same. You people are nuts. For all the reasons concerning the lack of clarity over his position and the situation is 1000% of the reason Chris Mara HAS to be in the room. You are out of your mind if you don't see that.
I don't understand either. No one here knows what it takes to run an NFL team yet everyone is an expert in GM interviews and who should and should not be conducting him?
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
Eric we will find out, if the Giants are able to land one of the top candidates, Schoen, Horitz, Peters, Poles, then IMO it will be because they are given complete control. There is no way that any of those four are going to pass on other jobs to work under Chris Mara.
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
It would be a million times worse to say one thing to the candidate in an interview and not have CM in the room to hear it and not be sure that everyone's understanding is the same. You people are nuts. For all the reasons concerning the lack of clarity over his position and the situation is 1000% of the reason Chris Mara HAS to be in the room. You are out of your mind if you don't see that.
They COULD and SHOULD, however, move him OUT of the personnel department, and give him another job or jobs that don't relate to personnel. He should be doing "ownership stuff," Give him half whatever John's duties are that aren't personnel related.
RE: Ownership shouldn't have a view on building a roster?
10 years from now, Jimmy will be wondering why the Giants are still a joke.
If they hire a GM who is not aligned with ownership thinking, there are going to me MORE conflicts, more ownership involvement, not less. You can dislike Maras all you want, but those are the facts. They have made many mistakes, no one is denying that. But having Chris Mara there in the interview to discuss the matter and clarify is a no brainer. Sorry, it just is.
RE: Ownership shouldn't have a view on building a roster?
The big mistakes were leaving Reese on the job too long. Replacing Coughlin with McAdoo. Replacing McAdoo with Shurmur. Replacing Reese with Gettleman. Replacing Shurmur with Judge. Leaving Gettleman on the job too long.
Within each of these were poor drafts, poor CAP use, and poor trades.
The consistent individual behind all these mistakes is John Mara. The other individual was Accorsi with regard to Gettleman. I don’t know what Chris Mara, Petit, Abrams, and others had on these moves but clearly John Mara has taken on football roles he is clearly not qualified to,make. Now, he says he’ll hire the GM and presumably get out of the way and act the way other owners act who own successful franchises. He has to get this one right and then do what he says he’ll do. Who knows?
And then give that GM absolute authority over football decisions. That's what they did when they hired George Young in 1979, and they did that because Young would not take the job otherwise.
RE: RE: Ownership shouldn't have a view on building a roster?
Tim Chris Mara was born in March of 1957. He is no “spring chicken”. By comparison John Mara was born in December 1954. That is a 3 year difference which is not much. Is there any speculation that Chris Mara is going to succeed John? Really? IDTS.
I suspect one of the other siblings or a nephew/ other will ultimately follow. So why I bring this up?
Because Chris presently appears to be above the position of GM. And he is involved with scouting. His history bio includes arena football and supposedly offering a ‘service’ to up to 15 other NFL franchises. Nuf said on that.
I agree with Eric, that is, where is the ‘stellar performance’? How can anyone objectively evaluate Chris’ performance other than looking at the poor results of drafts and on the field? It is a mystery to me.
Should he be included in the interview process? No problem for me. Maybe he is the heir apparent to John, who knows?
As long as the interviewing is two way (in the management world, we would call it a “360 degree interview”). The perspective GM candidates should be allowed, that is, encouraged to ask questions of all the interviewers including Chris and get to specifics on the scouting and draft process and his (Chris’) role. That would be fair.
Meanwhile, I am not going to hyperventilate. If none of these perspective, high quality candidates actually is hired, then I can only draw one conclusion. A new candidate with ties to the Maras, Belichick or Parcells will be what concerns me.
You mean one of the primary owners shouldn't be in the room during interviews and leave it to the other primary owners?
It doesn't look good but if he doesn't really do anything different than an active owner would, who cares...
this +100
and Tim McDonnell too
You want Chris Mara having a of say on the next GM based on Chris' "personnel expertise?"
You want Chris Mara having a of say on the next GM based on Chris' "personnel expertise?"
No, that isn't the logic. The other owners are not involved as these three, nor do interviews really work with 20 people asking questions even if they were.
Not sure I care if Chris is the room anymore than Steve or John. How is he creating a problem?
He's not "just an owner."
You want Chris Mara having a of say on the next GM based on Chris' "personnel expertise?"
To be honest, I'm not sure I really trust the decisionmaking abilities of ANY of the guys in the room. I don't mind Chris Mara being in the room for the interview. Of the three, whatever you think of his personnel expertise, he is still probably the most qualified to consider a candidates personnel chops. So I could see why his insight there would be viewed as valuable.
That said, the bigger issue for me is what is his role going forward under the new GM and whether or not THAT discussion is part of the process. In terms of the specific issue of him being in the room, I'd say that's probably the only troubling aspect...doesn't seem likely someone's getting hired saying "owners need to be out of the football decisions" if one of the guys that impacts is sitting right there making the decision. Could it happen? Sure. But I suspect that's not where we're headed.
He's not "just an owner."
He's not "just an owner."
Yeah, in that room he is owner. And as an owner he probably wants to see how the franchise can get better with a new GM.
The best thing we can hope for is Mara to eventually get the GM right and then just get out of the way.
Other than that, we're in James Dolan territory.
The best thing we can hope for is Mara to eventually get the GM right and then just get out of the way.
Other than that, we're in James Dolan territory.
And how do you know that Chris isn't offering better input than John or Steve on these calls?
Under that logic...John and Steve are the competent football minds we want on the call?
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
Quote:
If you were Joe Schoen, wouldn't you want Chris Mara there so you can ask him questions about his relationship to you and your role? Any candidate would 1000% want that.
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
Quote:
If you were Joe Schoen, wouldn't you want Chris Mara there so you can ask him questions about his relationship to you and your role? Any candidate would 1000% want that.
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
John Mara described what the new GM would do in his comment earlier this week. You posted it yourself.
Maybe some candidates will discuss the Chris Mara role (maybe they won't) but to suggest you wouldn't take the interview and just inquire about it if it was such a mitigating issue for the GM role is not even logical.
Quote:
He is the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel on the worst team in the NFL. He has been directly involved in the franchise becoming a joke.
He's not "just an owner."
Let me ask you this. In your view, would it be a good thing or a bad thing to hire a GM who is aligned with ownership's thinking?
The problem with Chris Mara as SVP of Player Personnel he will usurp any decisions the GM will have and this will scare away candidates from accepting the position.
I'm not sure that most of you have noticed, but NYG is undergoing an organizational change.
If I’m GM my first question is do I report to Chris.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
If I’m GM my first question is do I report to Chris.
Quote:
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
It does bring up the issue of succession, if something did happen to JM. Would there be a power struggle between Chris and Tim, or would the NFL have to step in? Since we don't know the arrangement, it's all speculation, but an interesting one at that.
If I’m GM my first question is do I report to Chris.
And who do you raise that question to?
Chris
Quote:
In comment 15548905 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
It would be a million times worse to say one thing to the candidate in an interview and not have CM in the room to hear it and not be sure that everyone's understanding is the same. You people are nuts. For all the reasons concerning the lack of clarity over his position and the situation is 1000% of the reason Chris Mara HAS to be in the room. You are out of your mind if you don't see that.
I don't understand either. No one here knows what it takes to run an NFL team yet everyone is an expert in GM interviews and who should and should not be conducting him?
I'm not sure I would interview for the job if Chris Mara were to retain his job title.
Who is the GM?
Eric we will find out, if the Giants are able to land one of the top candidates, Schoen, Horitz, Peters, Poles, then IMO it will be because they are given complete control. There is no way that any of those four are going to pass on other jobs to work under Chris Mara.
He was not part of the interview process last time, and this time he is.
The candidates get to ask about hierarchy directly to the source.
This is a great development.
Schoen
Horitz
Peters
Poles
Quote:
He is the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel on the worst team in the NFL. He has been directly involved in the franchise becoming a joke.
He's not "just an owner."
Let me ask you this. In your view, would it be a good thing or a bad thing to hire a GM who is aligned with ownership's thinking?
Bad thing
1) ownership shouldn't have a view on how to build a roster
2) it doesn't allow for any serious self evaluation
Quote:
In comment 15548905 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Mara should voluntarily surrender his title of Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. He can own the team. But if they are going to change things, he needs to get out of the way.
This. 1000% this. It’s especially insulting to these GMs who are interviewing if he’s interviewing them as an owner only to go back to his senior VP title to work under the GM he helped to hire. While probably undermining the new GM. Just get out of the way, drop the position and avoid all of that bullshit.
It would be a million times worse to say one thing to the candidate in an interview and not have CM in the room to hear it and not be sure that everyone's understanding is the same. You people are nuts. For all the reasons concerning the lack of clarity over his position and the situation is 1000% of the reason Chris Mara HAS to be in the room. You are out of your mind if you don't see that.
I'm on board with this line of thinking.
They COULD and SHOULD, however, move him OUT of the personnel department, and give him another job or jobs that don't relate to personnel. He should be doing "ownership stuff," Give him half whatever John's duties are that aren't personnel related.
How's that working out for the Giants?
10 years from now, Jimmy will be wondering why the Giants are still a joke.
But it’s different people than last time. Was it obvious Chris Mara would be there?
Quote:
It’s crystal clear part of that organizational change includes Chris getting a seat at the big kids table.
If I’m GM my first question is do I report to Chris.
And who do you raise that question to?
Chris
Quote:
a view?
How's that working out for the Giants?
10 years from now, Jimmy will be wondering why the Giants are still a joke.
If they hire a GM who is not aligned with ownership thinking, there are going to me MORE conflicts, more ownership involvement, not less. You can dislike Maras all you want, but those are the facts. They have made many mistakes, no one is denying that. But having Chris Mara there in the interview to discuss the matter and clarify is a no brainer. Sorry, it just is.
absolutely not.
If the GM wants to build greatest show on turf 2.0 or recreate the 85 bears, it shouldn't matter as long as he produces wins.
Within each of these were poor drafts, poor CAP use, and poor trades.
The consistent individual behind all these mistakes is John Mara. The other individual was Accorsi with regard to Gettleman. I don’t know what Chris Mara, Petit, Abrams, and others had on these moves but clearly John Mara has taken on football roles he is clearly not qualified to,make. Now, he says he’ll hire the GM and presumably get out of the way and act the way other owners act who own successful franchises. He has to get this one right and then do what he says he’ll do. Who knows?
Quote:
a view?
absolutely not.
If the GM wants to build greatest show on turf 2.0 or recreate the 85 bears, it shouldn't matter as long as he produces wins.
I disagree. I think it's fine to express views and make his key decision-makers support theirs.
I suspect one of the other siblings or a nephew/ other will ultimately follow. So why I bring this up?
Because Chris presently appears to be above the position of GM. And he is involved with scouting. His history bio includes arena football and supposedly offering a ‘service’ to up to 15 other NFL franchises. Nuf said on that.
I agree with Eric, that is, where is the ‘stellar performance’? How can anyone objectively evaluate Chris’ performance other than looking at the poor results of drafts and on the field? It is a mystery to me.
Should he be included in the interview process? No problem for me. Maybe he is the heir apparent to John, who knows?
As long as the interviewing is two way (in the management world, we would call it a “360 degree interview”). The perspective GM candidates should be allowed, that is, encouraged to ask questions of all the interviewers including Chris and get to specifics on the scouting and draft process and his (Chris’) role. That would be fair.
Meanwhile, I am not going to hyperventilate. If none of these perspective, high quality candidates actually is hired, then I can only draw one conclusion. A new candidate with ties to the Maras, Belichick or Parcells will be what concerns me.