can you guys name quarterbacks who walked into the situation Daniel Jones has----3 head coaches in 4 years, 4 offensive coordinators (if you count Kitchens)---that eventually went on to be successful.
People like to look to Tanehill and there are similarities. I'm trying to think of other examples.
I think Jason Campbell had to deal with this in Washington, but he never really saw success.
Alex Smith also comes to mind, as he had several o'coordinators and coaching changes---I suppose you could call him a success story. So maybe this is Smith is the closest comparison I can find. They are also similar players.
Bridgewater has been all over the place. Not sure he has the same talent as Jones, but he's overcome some adversity. But would he have been better with a stable environment--i'd have to think so. Injuries also really set him back.
Not sure about how much jockeying of coordinators/coaches, but this played his whole career with little to no support.
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Not sure about how much jockeying of coordinators/coaches, but this played his whole career with little to no support.
This. Anyone complaining about Jones having to deal with 3 OC's and 2 systems in 3 years, that isn't unusual when a highly drafted QB goes to a bad team. Coaches change, systems change, but many deal with it fine.
Both Carr brothers and Kirk Cousins had some tough years when they played for crappy coaches who got fired, and had some real good years with better coaches.
He'd be biting kneecaps with the rest of them if he doesn't get traded.
David Carr had an abysmal situation and never recovered. Sam Darnold also comes to mind.
Justin Herbert has Keenan Allen and Mike WIlliams not to mention a very fine Center in Corey Linsley.
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had 6 offensive coordinators in 6 years.
Justin Herbert has Keenan Allen and Mike WIlliams not to mention a very fine Center in Corey Linsley.
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had 6 offensive coordinators in 6 years.
This. Anyone complaining about Jones having to deal with 3 OC's and 2 systems in 3 years, that isn't unusual when a highly drafted QB goes to a bad team. Coaches change, systems change, but many deal with it fine.
Actually, very, very few of them overcome it. Almost all the great QBs get taken in the mid or bottom first round... because they are drafted onto already good teams. It is a very rare exception that a QB taken in the top 5 can elevate a bad team into a real contender. Kyler Murray. Whom else in recent memory? Andrew Luck. Bob Griffin, but of course his play was reckless, and Washington wasnt a threat.
Look for Corrall, Willis or the guy from Pitt to shock in the next couple of years... because they are not valued enough to go at the top of the draft, and the team that takes them are likely a playoff contender.
Scott Linehan and Jim Schwartz was his OC and HC his first 5 seasons, and he sucked completely his first two years.
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Scott Linehan and Jim Schwartz was his OC and HC his first 5 seasons, and he sucked completely his first two years.
In Stafford's 2nd year, he played 2 1/2 games and threw 6 TDs and 1 INT.
In his 3rd, he threw 41 TDs, 16 INTs.
Try again.
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In comment 15549410 Biteymax22 said:
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Not sure about how much jockeying of coordinators/coaches, but this played his whole career with little to no support.
I saw Archie Manning play. A lot of the Saints problems were Archie. Oddly, he was far more mobile than either of his boys. He'd run around out there whenever he got pressured and invariably throw a pick. The Saints had Chuck Muncie and George Rogers putting up 1000+ yard seasons and Archie was still throwing more picks than TD's. Even with the corpse of Ken Stabler, the Saints immediately became a .500 team as soon as Archie was gone.
He played like 10 games with Rogers, and I think they had a winning record the one year Muncie had a 1000 yards running.
By NYG fan standards that's a pretty horrible situation.
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In comment 15549419 FStubbs said:
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Scott Linehan and Jim Schwartz was his OC and HC his first 5 seasons, and he sucked completely his first two years.
In Stafford's 2nd year, he played 2 1/2 games and threw 6 TDs and 1 INT.
In his 3rd, he threw 41 TDs, 16 INTs.
Try again.
You try again asswipe, who said anything about his third year.
You try again asswipe, who said anything about his third year.
Just so we're clear, you said his first two years sucked, then I pointed out that he played 10 quarters of football in his 2nd year due to a shoulder injury, during which time he threw 6 TDs in 96 passes, and instead of admitting a mistake you call me an asswipe?
In his first 29 starts he threw 60 TDs.
I'm sorry Daniel Jones blows. You should get over it.
I am done making excuses for Jones, I saw enough this year and last year that we just do not score enough points with him at Quarterback. Drives that we make into the red zone end in FG's or no points way way way too much. Too many missed plays or ALMOST plays that kill us.
He was a .500 quarter back by his second season, and by his third season was .500 again and a 4K/27TD QB.
Was his situation all that bad? What was the matter?
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Scott Linehan and Jim Schwartz was his OC and HC his first 5 seasons, and he sucked completely his first two years.
He missed almost all of year 2 with injury.
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had 6 offensive coordinators in 6 years.
Justin Herbert has Keenan Allen and Mike WIlliams not to mention a very fine Center in Corey Linsley.
Eckler, too.
It's going to be funny to go back to these threads when Jones signs as a backup in Jacksonville and disappears into the ether.
He was a .500 quarter back by his second season, and by his third season was .500 again and a 4K/27TD QB.
Was his situation all that bad? What was the matter?
He was very good through year 4. Got hurt late in year 5, missed all of 6, and came back for his 7th, and played pretty well. A new admin came in and decided to go in another direction.
A lot of people try to paint Tannehill as a bust in Miami, he wasn't. When healthy, he was really good, he just had a major injury at an inopportune time.
By NYG fan standards that's a pretty horrible situation.
Brady had a ideal situation to come into for a young QB. Kind of like a Parcells Giants team. Blue collar OL and running game with a outstanding D. They may have been the top defense in the league and had multiple high end players on D. LB''s were outstanding, stud corners and I forgot his name but a outstanding DT. Brady played a vastly different game than he would just a couple years later. Great blueprint on how to bring in a young QB. He did enough and didn't turn the ball over.
It would be the statistical outlier of all outliers for DJ to suddenly "figure it out."
his team in Detroit was a loser. How was he successful? Wins and losses are all that count.
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his team in Detroit was a loser. How was he successful? Wins and losses are all that count.
Ok, so Jones sucks.
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You try again asswipe, who said anything about his third year.
Just so we're clear, you said his first two years sucked, then I pointed out that he played 10 quarters of football in his 2nd year due to a shoulder injury, during which time he threw 6 TDs in 96 passes, and instead of admitting a mistake you call me an asswipe?
In his first 29 starts he threw 60 TDs.
I'm sorry Daniel Jones blows. You should get over it.
Threw a pick in every game and fumbled 5 times his second year. So he sucked his second year regardless of how many games he played. Your logic you give Jones a pass this year because he got hurt. No he sucked regardless. Narrative of this thread was who succeeded with multiple head and offensive coaches, and clearly Stafford does not fit the criteria.
Tannehill did not need a lot of time. He threw for 3,900 yds and 24 TD's in year 2, and over 4,000 yds and 25 TD's in years 3 & 4.
1) Mental and physical flexibility to improve you cannot predict or take for granted
2) Good coaching and a stable organization
After three years Jones has not exhibited number one and the Giants have not exhibited number two.
This isn’t some rarity. This is exactly what happened with Mitch Trubisky.
Maybe Jones goes and sits and repairs. Or maybe he’s Blaine Gabbert.
If I’m the Giants both of those aren’t worth it.
Threw a pick in every game and fumbled 5 times his second year. So he sucked his second year regardless of how many games he played. Your logic you give Jones a pass this year because he got hurt. No he sucked regardless. Narrative of this thread was who succeeded with multiple head and offensive coaches, and clearly Stafford does not fit the criteria.
What the hell are you talking about?
2nd season:
3 GP (10 quarters) - 6 TDs, 1 INT, 1 fumble lost
3rd season
16 starts - 41 TDs, 16 INTs, 1 fumble lost
Are you an actual moron or just acting like one?
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Threw a pick in every game and fumbled 5 times his second year. So he sucked his second year regardless of how many games he played. Your logic you give Jones a pass this year because he got hurt. No he sucked regardless. Narrative of this thread was who succeeded with multiple head and offensive coaches, and clearly Stafford does not fit the criteria.
What the hell are you talking about?
2nd season:
3 GP (10 quarters) - 6 TDs, 1 INT, 1 fumble lost
3rd season
16 starts - 41 TDs, 16 INTs, 1 fumble lost
Are you an actual moron or just acting like one?
You clearly are an idiot, keep bringing up his third year for no reason. Don’t read the OP either. Go back and check the game logs and see what he did that year.
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In comment 15549419 FStubbs said:
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his team in Detroit was a loser. How was he successful? Wins and losses are all that count.
Ok, so Jones sucks.
Jones was not successful. Maybe he sucks too but that is completely different and they are not always true at the same time.
I did not say that Stafford sucks... he is a skilled QB but he absolutely was not successful in Detroit. He was not able to overcome the deficiencies in his team or coaching staff to win anyway.
If I have to explain that to you, then we should probably pay less attention to your posts here.
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In comment 15549549 EricJ said:
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In comment 15549419 FStubbs said:
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his team in Detroit was a loser. How was he successful? Wins and losses are all that count.
Ok, so Jones sucks.
Jones was not successful. Maybe he sucks too but that is completely different and they are not always true at the same time.
I did not say that Stafford sucks... he is a skilled QB but he absolutely was not successful in Detroit. He was not able to overcome the deficiencies in his team or coaching staff to win anyway.
If I have to explain that to you, then we should probably pay less attention to your posts here.
Jones does suck. Pay attention to my posts or don't; I'll stand by my track record here.
He played 3 games in his 2 nd year , what am I missing?
Jones is a gone. I would be completely beside myself if a new GM and coach wanted to bring Jones back instead of just trading him for whatever and starting new with coach input on a new QB.
He is one of the few people you can trade. Engram and Peppers are free agents (not that Peppers is tradeable). Barkley is hurt or just not good any more and a RB. Who is taking on Golladay's contract.
You can basically trade Jones and get a mItch Trubsky for the same offense.
or
37 Games - 12-25-0 Record - 62.8 Comp% - 45 TDs - 29 INTs - 28 Fumbles Lost
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won his first two super bowls (vs the Rams and Panthers) with Deion Branch being his best WR and an offensive line built primarily with castoffs and late round draft picks (other than Damien Woody (Rams) and Matt Light (both)).
By NYG fan standards that's a pretty horrible situation.
Brady had a ideal situation to come into for a young QB. Kind of like a Parcells Giants team. Blue collar OL and running game with a outstanding D. They may have been the top defense in the league and had multiple high end players on D. LB''s were outstanding, stud corners and I forgot his name but a outstanding DT. Brady played a vastly different game than he would just a couple years later. Great blueprint on how to bring in a young QB. He did enough and didn't turn the ball over.
lol, come on man.
Brady made that situation ideal.
"blue collar OL" - his OL was Matt Light (2nd round pick) and late round projects. Deion Branch and David Givens were his skill guys. Until Corey Dillon in '05 his RB was Antowain Smith. Again you drop Daniel Jones (or almost any QB into that situation and almost everyone will call it horrible). And Charlie Weis calling plays...how did that work out everywhere else Weis went.
He had a good D and great head coach, but Drew Bledsoe was not winning a SB with that team (nor were most QB's).
Wilson had a great RB and great defense.
He's part of the OL pass protection problem.
And besides, he isn't a huge beneficiary of having an hour to throw the ball like most QBs would be.
When I think of Russell Wilson I think of one of the luckiest situations of a starting QB in the last 25 years.
Roethlisberger probably up there as well.
Another level of awful than the offensive unit the Giants put on the field in most games this year?
Young only played in 19 games for the Bucs. But he had James Wilder and Ron Springs as RBs and Jimmie Giles as a TE. He had Kevin House as his No. 1 WR (he had 2 1,000 yard seasons). In '86 (after 5 starts in '85), in 14 games, he completed 54 percent of his passes for 2,200 yards, had 8 TDs and 13 INTs. His QB rating was 65. NY fans would have run him out of town.
Jones has never thrown more INTs than TDs. He completed 62 percent of his passes as a rookie (and that's risen every year) in 12 starts for 3,000 yards. His rating his first year was 87, and hasn't been below 80 in any year.
Also, Young didn't start in SF until the middle of his fifth year there. He wasn't almost immediately great.
The only thing he had in common with his sons is that they played QB. Archie was fast and ran all over the place. He could probably still beat both of his sons in a race.
If Jones were good, there would be fans on other teams sites saying "if [our scrub QB] had Golloday, Toney, Sheppard...he'd be just as good as Jones"