to have a Senior VP of Player Personnel who is also an owner, but insist his input is no greater than any other scout, and he does not factor into any final decisions when it comes to the draft or acquisitions.
If another scout disagrees with a player evaluation, do we just assume he expresses a contrary view like he would with any other scout?
Mara may truly believe that is role Chris Mara plays, but in reality it almost can't be. His opinion takes on much more weight simply by being an owner and brother of the guy who makes every decision for the team.
1) Do you trust J Mara to make the decision himself?
2) Does adding Tisch help ?
3) Do you think J Mara and Tisch trust themselves to make the decision alone (no!)
4) Which members of ownership have the most actual experience in actual to form an opinion? (Isn't that C Mara and Tim M ?)
5) Someone has to do interviewing - Do we all agree it should be more than the S Tisch and J Mara?
RE: They should change Chris Mara title to “Owner/Pro Personnel Fellow”
And honestly, if the media keeps enough pressure on, I think they might do it when they announce the GM or the new Head Coach.
It will spare him the humiliation if they have to fire the GM/HC again in two years and the pitchforks really come out.
Fat chance.
If you listened to the recording of the Mara presser today he downplayed Chris Mara's role and blamed the media for keeping alive what John feels is a non-story.
John Mara also seemed a little annoyed at the questions about Chris.
Neither the media or the fans are going to make him do anything regarding Chris or nephew Tim.
have an established personal relationship with the Owner that is outside the chain of command.
If the GM and Head Coach want Player A, but the Owners brother does not like Player A and wants Player B, who do you think wins that argument? The Maras cannot be fired from their ownership in the team, so the perception that there is internal conflict is actually created by the Owner not acknowledging that this structure could create actual conflict with the GM/HC. This structure is the basis for the "shadow scouting" department in the Dunne article.
IMO Mara was way too defensive on this point and if I am advising Steve Tisch I would certainly want to nail John down on the "no authority" statement in the press conference. Let's see if the next GM can push them out of the front office and back into the Owner's box.
have an established personal relationship with the Owner that is outside the chain of command.
If the GM and Head Coach want Player A, but the Owners brother does not like Player A and wants Player B, who do you think wins that argument? The Maras cannot be fired from their ownership in the team, so the perception that there is internal conflict is actually created by the Owner not acknowledging that this structure could create actual conflict with the GM/HC. This structure is the basis for the "shadow scouting" department in the Dunne article.
IMO Mara was way too defensive on this point and if I am advising Steve Tisch I would certainly want to nail John down on the "no authority" statement in the press conference. Let's see if the next GM can push them out of the front office and back into the Owner's box.
Yes and as I wrote in another thread, Jordan's question was getting to this, but Mara answered it as if Chris's appeal to him would have undue weight instead of the unspoken weight it carries with the GM and Coach who make the final call according to Mara (subject to his character assessment).
is a really easy answer to make this go away as an issue.
I wonder why they won't do it.
Because he has an ownership stake. Once the GM is hired hand him all the power so that ownership is in the background giving away Med Pepsi's and making sure Pat Hanlon stays off Twitter. Leave all the actual football-related stuff to the GM
1) Do you trust J Mara to make the decision himself?
No, but we don't get to decide.
2) Does adding Tisch help ? [/quote] Maybe, but we have no way of knowing what conversations are happening between the two families. Thems what know ain't sayin'.
3) Do you think J Mara and Tisch trust themselves to make the decision alone (no!)[/quote]No, but more problematically: I bet neither side trusts the other. The Maras look at the Tisches and think "They're not football guys. The Tisches look at the Maras think "They think of themselves as football guys, but they are terrible at it."
4) Which members of ownership have the most actual experience in actual to form an opinion? (Isn't that C Mara and Tim M ?) [/quote] They have experience in the same sense that Joe Judge has experience being a head coach. They have a track record of failure. How valuable is experience in that situation? I'd argue: Not much.
5) Someone has to do interviewing - Do we all agree it should be more than the S Tisch and J Mara? [/quote]In theory, yes. Someone proposed a consulting firm should do it; I don't think that much of consulting firms. I don't know who should do it, but I'm pretty sure I don't trust the owners or their cronies like DG or Ernie Accorsi to be hands-on. I don't know who that leaves. Probably someone we haven't heard of.
Our drafts have been terrible. If Chris Mara and Tim McDonald are providing the scouting input to the GM and that input stinks than any GM will make bad choices.
Also John Mara says everyone likes Tim. It's not supposed to be all about being liked it's supposed to be about getting results. Right there it tells me John Mara is clueless.
So two owners run scouting and our draft results stink and somehow it is all on the GM.
You know why Gettleman wasn't fired? Because he knows the truths about Chris and Tim and John wants him to be a good soldier and keep his mouth shut.
Typical Mara. We will fix the problem when we hire the GM. No John, the problem will be fixed when Chris and Tim are removed.
The next GM will have limited success as long as things stay the same in the personnel department.
The fish rots from the head. The Maras need to be booted into the owner's box. Chris needs to go enjoy his ponies and Tim needs to go back to Notre Dame and get another degree. I'd honestly feel better if Chris's daughters--Kate and Rooney--were running the team.
I wonder why they won't do it.
Hes the owner - just give yourself a new title. Be the President of Asskicking.
It will spare him the humiliation if they have to fire the GM/HC again in two years and the pitchforks really come out.
If another scout disagrees with a player evaluation, do we just assume he expresses a contrary view like he would with any other scout?
Mara may truly believe that is role Chris Mara plays, but in reality it almost can't be. His opinion takes on much more weight simply by being an owner and brother of the guy who makes every decision for the team.
I wonder why they won't do it.
There was a body under the goal posts of the previous stadium, I doubt they wanna go that route again.
2) Does adding Tisch help ?
3) Do you think J Mara and Tisch trust themselves to make the decision alone (no!)
4) Which members of ownership have the most actual experience in actual to form an opinion? (Isn't that C Mara and Tim M ?)
5) Someone has to do interviewing - Do we all agree it should be more than the S Tisch and J Mara?
It will spare him the humiliation if they have to fire the GM/HC again in two years and the pitchforks really come out.
Fat chance.
If you listened to the recording of the Mara presser today he downplayed Chris Mara's role and blamed the media for keeping alive what John feels is a non-story.
John Mara also seemed a little annoyed at the questions about Chris.
Neither the media or the fans are going to make him do anything regarding Chris or nephew Tim.
If the GM and Head Coach want Player A, but the Owners brother does not like Player A and wants Player B, who do you think wins that argument? The Maras cannot be fired from their ownership in the team, so the perception that there is internal conflict is actually created by the Owner not acknowledging that this structure could create actual conflict with the GM/HC. This structure is the basis for the "shadow scouting" department in the Dunne article.
IMO Mara was way too defensive on this point and if I am advising Steve Tisch I would certainly want to nail John down on the "no authority" statement in the press conference. Let's see if the next GM can push them out of the front office and back into the Owner's box.
I wonder why they won't do it.
An “issue” for who? You? Or the actual team? Chris doesn’t have any authority and that was fairly obvious today.
If the GM and Head Coach want Player A, but the Owners brother does not like Player A and wants Player B, who do you think wins that argument? The Maras cannot be fired from their ownership in the team, so the perception that there is internal conflict is actually created by the Owner not acknowledging that this structure could create actual conflict with the GM/HC. This structure is the basis for the "shadow scouting" department in the Dunne article.
IMO Mara was way too defensive on this point and if I am advising Steve Tisch I would certainly want to nail John down on the "no authority" statement in the press conference. Let's see if the next GM can push them out of the front office and back into the Owner's box.
Yes and as I wrote in another thread, Jordan's question was getting to this, but Mara answered it as if Chris's appeal to him would have undue weight instead of the unspoken weight it carries with the GM and Coach who make the final call according to Mara (subject to his character assessment).
I wonder why they won't do it.
Because he has an ownership stake. Once the GM is hired hand him all the power so that ownership is in the background giving away Med Pepsi's and making sure Pat Hanlon stays off Twitter. Leave all the actual football-related stuff to the GM
2) Does adding Tisch help ? [/quote] Maybe, but we have no way of knowing what conversations are happening between the two families. Thems what know ain't sayin'.
3) Do you think J Mara and Tisch trust themselves to make the decision alone (no!)[/quote]No, but more problematically: I bet neither side trusts the other. The Maras look at the Tisches and think "They're not football guys. The Tisches look at the Maras think "They think of themselves as football guys, but they are terrible at it."
4) Which members of ownership have the most actual experience in actual to form an opinion? (Isn't that C Mara and Tim M ?) [/quote] They have experience in the same sense that Joe Judge has experience being a head coach. They have a track record of failure. How valuable is experience in that situation? I'd argue: Not much.
5) Someone has to do interviewing - Do we all agree it should be more than the S Tisch and J Mara? [/quote]In theory, yes. Someone proposed a consulting firm should do it; I don't think that much of consulting firms. I don't know who should do it, but I'm pretty sure I don't trust the owners or their cronies like DG or Ernie Accorsi to be hands-on. I don't know who that leaves. Probably someone we haven't heard of.
THing is, after making this claim, John did everything possible to prove that it's false -
Chris does player evaluations, his grades are factored in, and he's interviewing the next GM.
He's as involved as can be.
Ha, spoken like a true smart ass. Good for you...
Also John Mara says everyone likes Tim. It's not supposed to be all about being liked it's supposed to be about getting results. Right there it tells me John Mara is clueless.
So two owners run scouting and our draft results stink and somehow it is all on the GM.
You know why Gettleman wasn't fired? Because he knows the truths about Chris and Tim and John wants him to be a good soldier and keep his mouth shut.
Typical Mara. We will fix the problem when we hire the GM. No John, the problem will be fixed when Chris and Tim are removed.
The next GM will have limited success as long as things stay the same in the personnel department.
Quote:
is a really easy answer to make this go away as an issue.
I wonder why they won't do it.
An “issue” for who? You? Or the actual team? Chris doesn’t have any authority and that was fairly obvious today.
Then what's with his/your title Chris...I meant shill?