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| Of the many miscalculations Mara has made in recent years, his belief that Gettleman and Judge were on the same page after the team’s 5-3 finish to last season was one of his worst. If Mara had the necessary tough conversations, he would have learned that the relationship started to deteriorate last season and had only gotten worse, according to a source. |
The funny thing is they were probably both trying to shovel bullshit into each others mouths that neither of them were buying
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DG should have been fired with Shurmur. That was THE mistake. Then Mara could done what he says he wants to do now...
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Christ Gettleman was such a fucking schmuck.
DG should have been fired with Shurmur. That was THE mistake. Then Mara could done what he says he wants to do now...
Yep.
Remember earlier this year how all the DG defenders were converting themselves into Judge advocates. And used the concept that these two were collaborating so well and the player acquisitions were improving so let's just keep going with Gettleman as GM. Classic...
It bothers me too. At least I would have liked more questions directed at Mara on the Gettleman topic.
We could have used a random number generator at every major decision and done better than Gettleman did. I can't say enough bad things about this asshole.
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Christ Gettleman was such a fucking schmuck.
DG should have been fired with Shurmur. That was THE mistake. Then Mara could done what he says he wants to do now...
yup, was so fucking obvious to everyone but mara. at least he looks really pained by this.
I was in that group, myself
I do not know Duggan's credibility so for now I won't question the article.
(This is getting worse by the day).
everyone thought that was a great move for the most part. but who knows maybe ojulari was going to be one of those guys that drops further. we dont know. quincy roche was supposed to be a 2nd/3rd rounder and he went in the 6th.
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at this year's draft per that video where DG walks away from Judge looking very annoyed.
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Trying to recall...wasn't that during Rd 2 about the time they traded back for the second time in draft?
I am just guessing but I think Getts wanted to stay and pick and then lost his targeted guy before they got to their new lower pick...
(This is getting worse by the day).
ESPECIALLY when your brother and nephew are around those people on an everyday basis. It's mind boggling
If the GM isn't allowed to clean house, I suspect we're going to be in the same spot years from now.
The cancer situation, I believe, played a huge role in Mara having a super-light touch with Gettleman.
Judge had his issues but the fact DG gets a free pass and is not accountable is pretty disgusting. We all have to answer for our professional mistakes at the most basic level, and JJ wont ever likely be a HC again. Pretty crappy for an owner!
That was very funny...
Sad as is unhappy, or sad as in pathetic?
The organization has not made a single good hire since Coughlin/Reese. When that changes the dysfunction will stop. if they make bad hires the dysfunction will continue. It's as simple as that.
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but it bugs me that Gettleman was allowed to ride off into the sunset while Judge got canned. At the end of the day Judge coached himself out of a job the last month but I don't think an inside sabotage job by a Jerry Jones plant could've fucked Judge worse than Gettleman did.
The cancer situation, I believe, played a huge role in Mara having a super-light touch with Gettleman.
And the deathbed situation has kept Ronnie Barnes here. The man is nothing if not an empath
I think Judge was pissed at the crappy players Getts was pulling in the door and throwing at him, even the "shots in the dark" like a Benjamin who didn't have any financial guarantees but were complete wastes of his coaching time.
And it ended with Judge throwing him away before the first practice ever took place and Getts standing there trying to play good cop since he was responsible for Benjamin being there...
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at least John Mara seemed "sad" today.
Sad as is unhappy, or sad as in pathetic?
I'm told by some that I should believe John Mara has changed his ways because he seemed embarrassed today. This time it's different. Feelings and such.
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at this year's draft per that video where DG walks away from Judge looking very annoyed.
Link below. Link - ( New Window )
What's with DG and his volitional hand movements? Strange fella, all the away around.
Clear lines of responsibility and authority need to be drawn. It appears (whether it's Chris Mara alone or others) that the Giants have some blurred authority at least.
Again, GM needs to be President of Football Operations with the authority and responsibility for all football related matters. That would go a long way to reducing or eliminating this dysfunction.
Yes, I remember posting the video on this board and calling it out at the time. I was told I was crazy!
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at this year's draft per that video where DG walks away from Judge looking very annoyed.
Link below. Link - ( New Window )
I can watch that all day. It's a video worth a thousand words with all of the central characters.
Judge's snicker/laugh at the end towards DG was sensational. May have been the last time I applauded something JJ did.
The organization has not made a single good hire since Coughlin/Reese. When that changes the dysfunction will stop. if they make bad hires the dysfunction will continue. It's as simple as that.
I guess expecting the owner/president of football ops to have an understanding that his HC and GM are at odds or there's a scout in the front office that's making an ass of himself is too much to ask.
Mara himself is no leader. That's how you get infected by the cancer of tough guy a-holes.
If you have a long, mostly good relationship with someone you don’t generally inflict pain/embarrassment for little to no reason if you have any class, even if things didn’t work out. It’s a bad look to intentionally be a dick to a guy headed out the door, too.
Judge was different in that they wanted to keep him initially so let it play out, and then he wasn’t leaving without being terminated. I think they got the message real quick they’d have to clean the slate to get GM candidates to seriously consider coming. Plus I think they realized half measures only kept more questions and fan anger coming so it was better to just move on. I think they cared that cutting JJ now is going to hurt his career, too. They brought him into a bad situation but I think the last few weeks made it untenable to keep him given the Presser, etc. So overall it became clear it was in their best interests for the team to clean the slate.
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but it bugs me that Gettleman was allowed to ride off into the sunset while Judge got canned. At the end of the day Judge coached himself out of a job the last month but I don't think an inside sabotage job by a Jerry Jones plant could've fucked Judge worse than Gettleman did.
The cancer situation, I believe, played a huge role in Mara having a super-light touch with Gettleman.
That was 3 years ago. If it's insensitive so be it but that's weak.
Judge had his issues but the fact DG gets a free pass and is not accountable is pretty disgusting. We all have to answer for our professional mistakes at the most basic level, and JJ wont ever likely be a HC again. Pretty crappy for an owner!
DG only got a pass in name only. His contract was expiring, he still left a disgrace on everyone's eyes.
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In comment 15549966 bw in dc said:
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at this year's draft per that video where DG walks away from Judge looking very annoyed.
Link below. Link - ( New Window )
I can watch that all day. It's a video worth a thousand words with all of the central characters.
Judge's snicker/laugh at the end towards DG was sensational. May have been the last time I applauded something JJ did.
Haha! The snicker and grin at the very end was my favorite part. I also think it’s the only times I ever seen Judge crack a smile in two years
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Christ Gettleman was such a fucking schmuck.
DG should have been fired with Shurmur. That was THE mistake. Then Mara could done what he says he wants to do now...
Not only a mistake, but a mistake they were repeating from the Reese/Coughlin era.
If you have a long, mostly good relationship with someone you don’t generally inflict pain/embarrassment for little to no reason if you have any class, even if things didn’t work out. It’s a bad look to intentionally be a dick to a guy headed out the door, too.
Judge was different in that they wanted to keep him initially so let it play out, and then he wasn’t leaving without being terminated. I think they got the message real quick they’d have to clean the slate to get GM candidates to seriously consider coming. Plus I think they realized half measures only kept more questions and fan anger coming so it was better to just move on. I think they cared that cutting JJ now is going to hurt his career, too. They brought him into a bad situation but I think the last few weeks made it untenable to keep him given the Presser, etc. So overall it became clear it was in their best interests for the team to clean the slate.
Good post. I've agreed with the BBI sentiment most of the way but I don't understand all the hemming and hawing about Gettleman 'getting' to retire instead of being fired. What matters is he is gone. He should have been gone sooner, or better yet never hired at all but he was. He was shown the door, the semantics is all just sour grapes.
DG doesnt look on board, so surprisingly, this was a better pick.
Is that Chris across from JJ?
For him to do that I think we would need to know exactly what Judge's involvement was (I think strong) and what direction he have gone with personnel wise imv. I still think he reached a point where he short circuited from the stress of the overall situation and made some poor decisions.
I get your POV on Judge. He wasn't dealt the best hand. But you still have to play the hand. And he played it horribly this year.
Judge isn't riding off destitute. So I wouldn't feel too bad for too long.
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They didn’t fire DG. (Though they probably did, in essence, if he wasn’t originally planning to retire.) He’s a guy with a long relationship to the team and thus owners, he was part of 2 SBs in the past, he was going anyway, they prefer not to fire mid season, they didn’t see it as an impediment to talking to the people they want to talk to.
If you have a long, mostly good relationship with someone you don’t generally inflict pain/embarrassment for little to no reason if you have any class, even if things didn’t work out. It’s a bad look to intentionally be a dick to a guy headed out the door, too.
Judge was different in that they wanted to keep him initially so let it play out, and then he wasn’t leaving without being terminated. I think they got the message real quick they’d have to clean the slate to get GM candidates to seriously consider coming. Plus I think they realized half measures only kept more questions and fan anger coming so it was better to just move on. I think they cared that cutting JJ now is going to hurt his career, too. They brought him into a bad situation but I think the last few weeks made it untenable to keep him given the Presser, etc. So overall it became clear it was in their best interests for the team to clean the slate.
Good post. I've agreed with the BBI sentiment most of the way but I don't understand all the hemming and hawing about Gettleman 'getting' to retire instead of being fired. What matters is he is gone. He should have been gone sooner, or better yet never hired at all but he was. He was shown the door, the semantics is all just sour grapes.
Whether he was fired or not isn't really the point that's making people react.
It's the decision making process that led to this season. He should have been let go a year ago. Lame duck GMs and coaches do things like spend irresponsibly and jam up the salary cap.
Keeping DG a year too long when he didnt even earn it means the Giant now need to spend 2022 paying for their mistakes.
And Dave being gone doesn't mean the Giants are going to learn from the mistake.
It was either after the trade down in the 1st, the Toney pick or the Ojulari pick.
I’m blanking.
It was either after the trade down in the 1st, the Toney pick or the Ojulari pick.
I’m blanking.
Uh - it's posted above by Sean...?
this is imo the most interesting revelation in the last couple weeks. it's also an interesting reflection of the reality that John Mara has been indiscriminately wrong on hiring decisions wrong whether they were popular (judge) or unpopular (gettleman).
i think many are overcomplicating their read on the state of the franchise when "Mara has made shitty hires" explains it.
there's really nothing anyone can do except hope he finally gets one right. the next competent person they hire to management will be the first since Coughlin left.
there's blame to go around. the offense went off a cliff in judge year 1 despite essentially the same personnel (and better personnel year 2).
seeing as judge/his staff had fingerprints on almost every draft pick and free agent signed blameshifting the roster makeup is a hollow excuse. it's the same qb sneak that got him fired.
(This is getting worse by the day).
Is it? Funny how stories come out after both are gone. Perhaps they did know this season and knew DG was on his way out. Why is this any more effecting than the other stuff? They are both gone.. BTW if you think Mara should have known then you are saying that Mara was more hands off than what all here are saying he is. Can't be both too involved and too hands off
I too feel bad for Judge. He did get screwed. He trusted Belichick and he trusted Mara but he fired himself. He wasn't ready for the job and it broke him after Jones got hurt.
- Gettleman with both coaching staffs brought in a LOT of players that the staffs were familiar with. A good portion was on defense. Bechter's picks were mostly absolute slugs where Graham/Judge's connections were a lot better.
There were offensive players brought in to a lesser extent. A little more tied to Garrett. I still think the season could've looked a LOT different even if someone like Looney (tied to Garrett) didn't retire. Maybe Gates doesn't get hurt. Maybe we don't trade for Price (and have more of an inside pass rush with B.J. Hill). Maybe we have Looney at left guard with Price at center. Maybe with that Skura can push Hernandez out.
- My guess is that you don't spend the money on Golladay unless both people were absolutely comfortable. I still would love to understand what happened with there. Was he a malcontent - he may lose his job anyway but the guy we brought in from Detroit should have known. Was it more like Hakeem Nicks who just went down physically due to wear and tear? Who in our medical staff signed off? Or was it just really bad luck and he can recover.
- If I remember correctly, the video of Gettleman looking like a lost pup was that Gettleman was disappointed about losing out on a couple lineman he liked.
Mara like his old man seems to be loyal to a fault. There are worst traits to have as a person. As a head of a business, it could be a big problem as tough decisions usually can't be based on loyalty.
I'm thinking back to Parcells's first year. It is crazy to think how he rebounded off of that with everything that went wrong - it's been awhile but if my memory is right he lost both parents and a coach that year.
John’s only real choice is to move Chris and Petit elsewhere in the organization, out of Player Personnel.
Find another cap specialist than Abrams who may just be yet another Fox in the henhouse…
Yikes!
+1 Eric. Did you use the 8-ball when you thought it could get worse?
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In comment 15549972 Sean said:
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In comment 15549966 bw in dc said:
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at this year's draft per that video where DG walks away from Judge looking very annoyed.
Link below. Link - ( New Window )
I can watch that all day. It's a video worth a thousand words with all of the central characters.
Judge's snicker/laugh at the end towards DG was sensational. May have been the last time I applauded something JJ did.
Haha! The snicker and grin at the very end was my favorite part. I also think it’s the only times I ever seen Judge crack a smile in two years
I'm going out on a limb here, but it might have been because Gettleman is an abrasive asshole.
- Gettleman with both coaching staffs brought in a LOT of players that the staffs were familiar with. A good portion was on defense. Bechter's picks were mostly absolute slugs where Graham/Judge's connections were a lot better.
There were offensive players brought in to a lesser extent. A little more tied to Garrett. I still think the season could've looked a LOT different even if someone like Looney (tied to Garrett) didn't retire. Maybe Gates doesn't get hurt. Maybe we don't trade for Price (and have more of an inside pass rush with B.J. Hill). Maybe we have Looney at left guard with Price at center. Maybe with that Skura can push Hernandez out.
- My guess is that you don't spend the money on Golladay unless both people were absolutely comfortable. I still would love to understand what happened with there. Was he a malcontent - he may lose his job anyway but the guy we brought in from Detroit should have known. Was it more like Hakeem Nicks who just went down physically due to wear and tear? Who in our medical staff signed off? Or was it just really bad luck and he can recover.
- If I remember correctly, the video of Gettleman looking like a lost pup was that Gettleman was disappointed about losing out on a couple lineman he liked.
Mara like his old man seems to be loyal to a fault. There are worst traits to have as a person. As a head of a business, it could be a big problem as tough decisions usually can't be based on loyalty.
I'm thinking back to Parcells's first year. It is crazy to think how he rebounded off of that with everything that went wrong - it's been awhile but if my memory is right he lost both parents and a coach that year.
I'm sure Judge signed off on a lot of the players signed over the past 2 years, but he's not the one putting contracts in front of them. Golladay was one who had an injury history, AND had been bad-mouthed by Lions coaches for shutting it down when he could have played. You want to take a chance on him, fine, but paying him that kind of money?
And then there is Adoree Jackson, I'm sure both Judge and Graham wanted him, but when word got out that Philly had offered 3/27, does DG offer 3/30? No, he goes to 3/39! That kind of crap is on him, he was bidding against himself and couldn't see it.