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The Obsession With Chris Mara

clatterbuck : 1/12/2022 7:38 pm
is both absurd and really tiresome. Does someone have any information on what decisions he's made, what player(s) he demanded be signed or drafted? If he has pressured scouts to upgrade or downgrade a player evaluation? We get it, a lot of fans don't like the fact he has a job in the organization. It's not ideal and it may be a distraction. But the constant, carping about what he does or doesn't do is silly, unsubstantiated bushwa. Is Chris Mara responsible for the sorry state of the franchise? Did he make the decision to sign Glenn instead of McCoy? Did he destroy the O-line? If so, let's see the receipts. If, not please give it a rest.
it's  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2022 7:39 pm : link
one easy step to make this all go away. One step.
Does ANYONE really know his role?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2022 7:41 pm : link
I have seen it run the gamut.
What's...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/12/2022 7:42 pm : link
...the step?
The  
Straw Hat : 1/12/2022 7:42 pm : link
Whining over this guy is ridiculous. We’ll never know either way what kind of role he really has. Best to move on.
When the organization says it's a title with no real effect  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2022 7:43 pm : link
on day to day operations, but he's meeting with the new GM, what are fans supposed to say?
RE: When the organization says it's a title with no real effect  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2022 7:45 pm : link
In comment 15550156 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
on day to day operations, but he's meeting with the new GM, what are fans supposed to say?


He is also a co owner.
RE: What's...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2022 7:45 pm : link
In comment 15550150 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...the step?


Resign his position as Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. Or remove him from that post.

If you don't want fans bitching about his role in team personnel decisions, then maybe it's not a great idea to give him a title that suggests he has immense influence.
RE: RE: When the organization says it's a title with no real effect  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2022 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15550158 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15550156 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


on day to day operations, but he's meeting with the new GM, what are fans supposed to say?



He is also a co owner.


So are about 50 other Maras.
RE: Does ANYONE really know his role?  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2022 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15550147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I have seen it run the gamut.


Yes based on today...

* he writes a few scouting reports on some college players and loads it into the player database they maintain;
* he gets to fly to the draft and sit in the war room;
* he is in-charge of logging onto the Zoom call for the GM candidate interviews

Did I miss anything?
RE: it's  
BlackLight : 1/12/2022 7:47 pm : link
In comment 15550145 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
one easy step to make this all go away. One step.


Nope. The Venn Diagram of people who are outraged that Chris Mara is taking notes in these GM interviews, people who would be outraged if Mara/Tisch were the only ones in the room, and people who would be outraged if they promoted from within, and people who would be outraged if they hired a consultant to feed them candidates, is a perfect circle.

When the new GM and HC are hired, I hope Chris Mara introduces them both at the introductory press with John Mara not even in the building. So that the resulting collective stroke in the fanbase might cause the aggregate sanity quotient to tick back up a few points.
I'll ask one question.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/12/2022 7:51 pm : link
When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.
Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
Trainmaster : 1/12/2022 7:52 pm : link
for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?

RE: RE: it's  
bwitz : 1/12/2022 7:53 pm : link
In comment 15550166 BlackLight said:
Quote:
In comment 15550145 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


one easy step to make this all go away. One step.



Nope. The Venn Diagram of people who are outraged that Chris Mara is taking notes in these GM interviews, people who would be outraged if Mara/Tisch were the only ones in the room, and people who would be outraged if they promoted from within, and people who would be outraged if they hired a consultant to feed them candidates, is a perfect circle.

When the new GM and HC are hired, I hope Chris Mara introduces them both at the introductory press with John Mara not even in the building. So that the resulting collective stroke in the fanbase might cause the aggregate sanity quotient to tick back up a few points.


Yeah. Ok. Keep wearing this rose colored glasses.
Or If You Want Chris Mara To Have His Fancy  
Trainmaster : 1/12/2022 7:53 pm : link
Senior VP of Player Personnel title, make sure the new GM has the President of Football Operations title and ensure that the GM has the authority.

RE: RE: What's...  
clatterbuck : 1/12/2022 7:53 pm : link
In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15550150 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...the step?



Resign his position as Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. Or remove him from that post.

If you don't want fans bitching about his role in team personnel decisions, then maybe it's not a great idea to give him a title that suggests he has immense influence.


Then maybe fans should hire the coaches and run the draft, too.
RE: RE: RE: What's...  
bwitz : 1/12/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15550188 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15550150 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...the step?



Resign his position as Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. Or remove him from that post.

If you don't want fans bitching about his role in team personnel decisions, then maybe it's not a great idea to give him a title that suggests he has immense influence.



Then maybe fans should hire the coaches and run the draft, too.


Or here’s a thought, maybe hire people who aren’t inept family members? But no, no. That’s ridiculous.
RE: Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
FStubbs : 1/12/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15550183 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?


I honestly believe most of these people vociferously defending Chris Mara are either members of the Giants organization or recipients of nepotism in their offline life and feel personally attacked.
RE: I'll ask one question.  
section125 : 1/12/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.


By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.
RE: RE: Does ANYONE really know his role?  
Bill in UT : 1/12/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15550165 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15550147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I have seen it run the gamut.



Yes based on today...

* he writes a few scouting reports on some college players and loads it into the player database they maintain;
* he gets to fly to the draft and sit in the war room;
* he is in-charge of logging onto the Zoom call for the GM candidate interviews

Did I miss anything?


Wow. I don't really keep a book on every poster here as some do, but color me surprised nonetheless that you would just take anything that John Mara says at face value. I've always seen you as more of a skeptic. Maybe you haven't come down from the UGA high :)
RE: RE: Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
section125 : 1/12/2022 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15550192 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15550183 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?




I honestly believe most of these people vociferously defending Chris Mara are either members of the Giants organization or recipients of nepotism in their offline life and feel personally attacked.


WTF?
I'm sorry people are upset about "the obsession"  
cpgiants : 1/12/2022 7:57 pm : link
But the circumstantial evidence is that he is the problematic link throughout our darkest times in terms of player procurement.

He has a role in player evaluation and his is an ownership voice so it is going to be heavily influential.

And there is no evidence that he's good about it.

More likely than not, he is a significant part of the problem, and as fans we all just want our team to be good.

He seems to be exactly what needs to be spoken about.
Read the article  
David_Upstate : 1/12/2022 7:58 pm : link
Maybe this....
This explains it perfectly - ( New Window )
RE: Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
clatterbuck : 1/12/2022 7:58 pm : link
In comment 15550183 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?


So I guess Gettleman is off the hook. Btw, was Chris Mara dialed into Judge's headset demanding the QB sneak play calls as well?
RE: RE: I'll ask one question.  
bwitz : 1/12/2022 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15550193 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.



By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.


Ridiculous comparison. Tisch actually owns a stake in the team. Chris Mara does not, other than the silver fucking spoon he has ‘earned’ by the genetic lottery. You see any Tisch’s working in the front office? Nope.
RE: RE: I'll ask one question.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/12/2022 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15550193 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.



By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.


Dude, what are you talking about?
RE: RE: Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
bwitz : 1/12/2022 8:00 pm : link
In comment 15550201 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15550183 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?




So I guess Gettleman is off the hook. Btw, was Chris Mara dialed into Judge's headset demanding the QB sneak play calls as well?


Clueless
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2022 8:02 pm : link
I don't doubt Chris has some sway. But I don't think he is some shadow GM.
RE: RE: What's...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/12/2022 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15550150 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...the step?



Resign his position as Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. Or remove him from that post.

If you don't want fans bitching about his role in team personnel decisions, then maybe it's not a great idea to give him a title that suggests he has immense influence.

If it was my business I If it was my business...
...some things I would want to know what fans had to say and some things I would not.

Based on the amount of information the fans have about Chris They really looks silly complaining as much as they are.
Now that assumes that "they" is more than just BBI.
Or a small fraction of BBI.
I can't fathom why people have a problem  
j_rud : 1/12/2022 8:03 pm : link
with the heat being directed at him. It's really strange to me.
RE: RE: Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
clatterbuck : 1/12/2022 8:04 pm : link
In comment 15550192 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15550183 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?




I honestly believe most of these people vociferously defending Chris Mara are either members of the Giants organization or recipients of nepotism in their offline life and feel personally attacked.


Oh wow, you got me man. I'm an under-assistant west coast promotion man for Jints Central and I got the job from my third cousin's brother-in-law... What a smug and frankly stupid comment.
how can anyone defend that our GMS all having the same DPP in C. Mara  
Platos : 1/12/2022 8:04 pm : link
and act like its not a big deal????

you know why Jerry Reese got the nod for GM here? because he was director of player personnel from 04-07.

you know why DG got the Panthers job? because he was director of pro personnel from 99-12. both those men contributed to winning championships here. Chris Mara has not.

these are positions of meaning. these are the positions we're interviewing right now for our own GM job.

Chris was a "scout" in the 80s. then ran a scouting company i'm sure nfl teams hired as a favor to Wellington. dicked around in the AFL before coming back to ny as "Vice President of Player Evaluation" whatever the FUCK that means. we've been drafting like shit since he's been promoted. other teams don't have 3 player personnel guys like us and are better. wake up.

he has NO risk of being fired in a key position on the team.
As Eric says  
Bill in UT : 1/12/2022 8:06 pm : link
Just let him resign as head of personnel. Then, whatever title John has as operating officer, make him the assistant. He can keep drawing his salary and stay in his office. And Tim can be assistant to the assistant.
RE: RE: RE: Chris Mara Is The Whipping Boy  
bwitz : 1/12/2022 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15550213 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15550192 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 15550183 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


for the apparent deep seated organizational problems the Giants have had the last ten years. There have been some very questionable draft and free agency decisions since Chris Mara has had the Senior VP of Player Personnel role. You have to believe he has at least some "thumb on the scale" influence; how much we'll never know. He is one constant over 4 Head Coaches and 2 General Managers. Is he 100% the problem? No. Is he likely at least a small issue and potentially a large issue? Yes.

Having Mara family members have "beyond ownership roles" is problematic. Is it so hard to see that?




I honestly believe most of these people vociferously defending Chris Mara are either members of the Giants organization or recipients of nepotism in their offline life and feel personally attacked.



Oh wow, you got me man. I'm an under-assistant west coast promotion man for Jints Central and I got the job from my third cousin's brother-in-law... What a smug and frankly stupid comment.


LMFAO. Says the clueless moron who started this thread.
Most of this is on DG, some on JJ  
Payasdaddy : 1/12/2022 8:07 pm : link
C Mara has some influence but I dont see him as the one ruining things
He has a voice, but not enough to royally screw shit up
DG bid against himself for KG, horrid signings like solder
totally ruined the cap in 2 yrs
hog mollies my ass
full blown love for DJ at a senior bowl practice
saquon touched by the hand of god ( he did look awesome in 2018)
JMHO
RE: RE: RE: I'll ask one question.  
clatterbuck : 1/12/2022 8:09 pm : link
In comment 15550203 bwitz said:
Quote:
In comment 15550193 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.



By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.



Ridiculous comparison. Tisch actually owns a stake in the team. Chris Mara does not, other than the silver fucking spoon he has ‘earned’ by the genetic lottery. You see any Tisch’s working in the front office? Nope.


Jonathon Tisch is treasurer of the NY Football Giants.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'll ask one question.  
bwitz : 1/12/2022 8:10 pm : link
In comment 15550227 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15550203 bwitz said:


Quote:


In comment 15550193 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.



By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.



Ridiculous comparison. Tisch actually owns a stake in the team. Chris Mara does not, other than the silver fucking spoon he has ‘earned’ by the genetic lottery. You see any Tisch’s working in the front office? Nope.



Jonathon Tisch is treasurer of the NY Football Giants.


And? That’s not even close to the front office operations and you know it. Sad that your thread is being shot down, I know.
RE: RE: What's...  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2022 8:10 pm : link
In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15550150 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...the step?



Resign his position as Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. Or remove him from that post.

If you don't want fans bitching about his role in team personnel decisions, then maybe it's not a great idea to give him a title that suggests he has immense influence.


Seems like it would make you and some others happy, no one else cares. No one else thinks it’s a big deal. I’ve yet to talk to one person, not single one in the real world who cares what Chris Maras title or involvement is.

This is as “fake news” as it gets.
As for the nephew...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2022 8:14 pm : link
No clue. But Chris Bisignano-no shill-spoke pretty highly of him recently.
RE: RE: What's...  
Red Right Hand : 1/12/2022 8:14 pm : link
In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15550150 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...the step?



Resign his position as Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. Or remove him from that post.

If you don't want fans bitching about his role in team personnel decisions, then maybe it's not a great idea to give him a title that suggests he has immense influence.
you're not wrong.
As others noted it was his promotion  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/12/2022 8:17 pm : link
Now the Giants did win that Super Bowl in 2011 but the cracks existed and they were wide open by 2013. Draft went way downhill starting in 2009 other than a couple very high end players. Later round picks almost non existent that had a impact.

So if Chris wanted to be the GM but Tisch not agreeing to it maybe John compromised and told Chris you can still be very involved but you have to carry a different title. Just a theory but I am not sure we will ever know for sure. Hopefully they start winning more soon.
RE: I can't fathom why people have a problem  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2022 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15550210 j_rud said:
Quote:
with the heat being directed at him. It's really strange to me.


Some people are desperate to not have "negativity" on the board yet poke their heads in the threads and initiate the conversations they claim to hate.
RE: RE: RE: What's...  
kdog77 : 1/12/2022 8:21 pm : link
In comment 15550230 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:

I’ve yet to talk to one person, not single one in the real world who cares what Chris Maras title or involvement is.

This is as “fake news” as it gets.


You are posting on a fan run site dedicated to a team that has gone 22-59 over the past 5 years and 61-100 over the past 10 years and wondering why the fans are obsessed about the ownership and front office structure of that team? Seriously? Maybe the people you meet in the real world don't care b/c they are not die hard fans who punish themselves every Sunday watching this crap team.
RE: RE: it's  
Red Right Hand : 1/12/2022 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15550166 BlackLight said:
Quote:
In comment 15550145 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


one easy step to make this all go away. One step.



Nope. The Venn Diagram of people who are outraged that Chris Mara is taking notes in these GM interviews, people who would be outraged if Mara/Tisch were the only ones in the room, and people who would be outraged if they promoted from within, and people who would be outraged if they hired a consultant to feed them candidates, is a perfect circle.

When the new GM and HC are hired, I hope Chris Mara introduces them both at the introductory press with John Mara not even in the building. So that the resulting collective stroke in the fanbase might cause the aggregate sanity quotient to tick back up a few points.
That would be awesome.
RE: RE: RE: I'll ask one question.  
Red Right Hand : 1/12/2022 8:26 pm : link
In comment 15550203 bwitz said:
Quote:
In comment 15550193 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.



By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.



Ridiculous comparison. Tisch actually owns a stake in the team. Chris Mara does not, other than the silver fucking spoon he has ‘earned’ by the genetic lottery. You see any Tisch’s working in the front office? Nope.
So, wow, wrong on both counts. He's an OWNER, and there are at least 2 Tisches working in the office, including the fucking treasurer.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What's...  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2022 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15550244 kdog77 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550230 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:

I’ve yet to talk to one person, not single one in the real world who cares what Chris Maras title or involvement is.

This is as “fake news” as it gets.



You are posting on a fan run site dedicated to a team that has gone 22-59 over the past 5 years and 61-100 over the past 10 years and wondering why the fans are obsessed about the ownership and front office structure of that team? Seriously? Maybe the people you meet in the real world don't care b/c they are not die hard fans who punish themselves every Sunday watching this crap team.


At this point I don’t think you guys even know what you are complaining about anymore. Go look at any GM thread prior to yesterday. All are full of proclamations about how we are going from DG straight to Abrams and that he will be nothing more than Maras errand boy. The GM search is a ruse, just so Mara can make sure we are all faked out. Well, the complete opposite happened. So now it’s on to Chris mara and his title.

And no, plenty of people I know are die hards, they don’t care about message boards or social media.
 
christian : 1/12/2022 8:38 pm : link
As far as I know we’re all real people on this site — if anyone has evidence to the contrary that would be killer.

A little thought experiment: You apply for a high level job and you’re pretty familiar with the owners. You get the interview and they give you 3 names.

You take a quick look just to confirm. One is CEO/President, one is Chairman/EVP, one is SVP over a department that sounds an awful like what you do.

You then hear through the grapevine the SVP who will be at the interview and who is an owner “has no authority and won’t be making the decisions.”

This is weird, no?
I view this as comical  
George from PA : 1/12/2022 8:41 pm : link
I will start being concern if I hear....he squashed drafting Parsons.

I hoped he would have intervene drafting D.Baker
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'll ask one question.  
FStubbs : 1/12/2022 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15550251 Red Right Hand said:
Quote:
In comment 15550203 bwitz said:


Quote:


In comment 15550193 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550180 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


When would you say this started going downhill? Now look up when he was promoted to his current position. As Eric said, maybe he is to blame or maybe he isn't but he shouldn't be in his position.



By that reasoning Tisch should not have a title either. He never does anything except agree with John on coaches and GMs, then goes and bangs his GF.



Ridiculous comparison. Tisch actually owns a stake in the team. Chris Mara does not, other than the silver fucking spoon he has ‘earned’ by the genetic lottery. You see any Tisch’s working in the front office? Nope.

So, wow, wrong on both counts. He's an OWNER, and there are at least 2 Tisches working in the office, including the fucking treasurer.


Nobody cares about the Treasurer. People care about the guys picking the crappy players.
They own the team… if you can’t accept that…  
DJ5150 : 1/12/2022 8:56 pm : link
…. You will have to find another team to follow….. I do t care if there are 15 scouts and evaluators…. If they put Maras opinion in the basket … so be it.
Good to see  
Shock-Man : 1/12/2022 8:57 pm : link
Chris Mara's family and friends are posting on BBI now
SFGFNCGiantsFan  
arniefez : 1/12/2022 9:00 pm : link
Chris Bisignano said Tim McDonnell "has some Mara connections" which would be funny if it wasn't so sad and then he went into a glowing review. That was his description of Susan Mara's son, who is in next in line to be the CEO of Giants. After that ridiculous comment it's impossible for me to take anything he says about the Giants seriously.
john mara directly said that one of the things chris mara does is  
japanhead : 1/12/2022 9:11 pm : link
participate in the draft. in addition to evaluating college players. what the fuck do you think mara means by that? how can it be any clearer?

his exact words were that chris mara PARTICIPATES IN THE DRAFT
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What's...  
bw in dc : 1/12/2022 9:11 pm : link
In comment 15550253 UConn4523 said:
Quote:


At this point I don’t think you guys even know what you are complaining about anymore. Go look at any GM thread prior to yesterday. All are full of proclamations about how we are going from DG straight to Abrams and that he will be nothing more than Maras errand boy. The GM search is a ruse, just so Mara can make sure we are all faked out. Well, the complete opposite happened. So now it’s on to Chris mara and his title.

And no, plenty of people I know are die hards, they don’t care about message boards or social media.


I'm guessing you recall the fake GM search that occurred in 2017 when DG was hired. And how Mara said he was going to conduct a wide search back then...Well, that was the ruse.

So with that precedence set, it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities, until they weren't, to think Mara might keep actually keep DG or promote Abrams.

The burden was on Mara to prove otherwise. And it seems like he's finally doing something that should have been done two years ago. Four years ago. Now it's time for him to put all the words he expressed today into action.
RE: Good to see  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2022 9:12 pm : link
In comment 15550290 Shock-Man said:
Quote:
Chris Mara's family and friends are posting on BBI now


Well done
RE: …  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2022 9:14 pm : link
In comment 15550270 christian said:
Quote:
As far as I know we’re all real people on this site — if anyone has evidence to the contrary that would be killer.

A little thought experiment: You apply for a high level job and you’re pretty familiar with the owners. You get the interview and they give you 3 names.

You take a quick look just to confirm. One is CEO/President, one is Chairman/EVP, one is SVP over a department that sounds an awful like what you do.

You then hear through the grapevine the SVP who will be at the interview and who is an owner “has no authority and won’t be making the decisions.”

This is weird, no?


What kind of dental plan are we talking about with this new outfit? That could sway the thought process one way or another...
It's odd that you talk about obession  
NoGainDayne : 1/12/2022 9:16 pm : link
I wouldn't say the people here talk about him any more than the rest of the key people on the Giants.

But I have observed you, OP, talk about the Giants the Giants ownership more than you talk about much else. So perhaps it is YOU that is obsessed.
As far as Chris Mara is concerned,  
Angel Eyes : 1/12/2022 9:26 pm : link
how much of a coincidence is it that the Giants haven't done well in acquiring personnel after he got his current job in 2011?
If Chris Mara and Perot’s roles are nothing  
STLGiant : 1/12/2022 9:29 pm : link
Let John Mara say that. It looks, feels and smells rotten. There are lots of areas they could be in. Player Personnel should not be one of them, if you want to blow it all up and rebuild it. Don’t stop there.

No GM can fix this with them in the mix. Can’t you see it?

DG says, “Hey Chris what do you think?
Chris Mara says, “I know John likes so-and-so, or hates so-and-so, or would never agree with this or that…”

DG to Chris Petit, Chris do you agree?
Chris Petit, “Yeah, I have to agree with Chris Mara.”

DG, “Well then, we know what to do…”

Too many Yes-men. Horrible business model.

Until this year DG never traded down…ever…. Hmmmm.
Chris Mara is part of the problem  
kelly : 1/12/2022 9:37 pm : link
Our personnel decisions since 2011 stink.

He was given the VP title in 2011. It is not a coincidence, it is fact.

He remains, coaches, GM's come and go and we continue to stink. The one constant is Chris Mara.

I don't believe what John Mara says regarding the role Chris plays. Why would John ever admit his part owner brother is part of the problem.

It's a dysfunctional ownership group leading to a dysfunctional team.

The past 10 years of failure speak to the dysfunction.

.
RE: As far as Chris Mara is concerned,  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2022 9:41 pm : link
In comment 15550336 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
how much of a coincidence is it that the Giants haven't done well in acquiring personnel after he got his current job in 2011?


Or maybe his draft recommendations on college personnel aren’t guys they have drafted and they have done well for other teams, or he has given guys red flags but they still get taken by Reese or Getts.

Maybe Chris Mara has more hits than anybody in the org for the last decade but the GMs aren’t in aligned.

The possibilities are endless...
Chris came up with the medium Pepsi idea...  
EricJ : 1/12/2022 9:42 pm : link
...
They fired Gettlemen  
UberAlias : 1/12/2022 9:51 pm : link
It wasn’t good enough.
They fired Judge. Still not good enough.
They’ve stated clearly the new GM and HC make the decisions on personnel.
Not good enough
The Maras aren’t selling the team. So if that’s the only thing that will lead some to acknowledge progress, why are you wasting your time here?
RE: RE: …  
christian : 1/12/2022 9:52 pm : link
In comment 15550319 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
This is weird, no?

What kind of dental plan are we talking about with this new outfit? That could sway the thought process one way or another...


No dental. You need a cleaning — Chris does it. Earning his keep.
RE: I can't fathom why people have a problem  
illmatic : 1/12/2022 9:54 pm : link
In comment 15550210 j_rud said:
Quote:
with the heat being directed at him. It's really strange to me.


Same. And Eric hit the nail on the head. I don’t understand how people can’t see why it’s an issue if he keeps that position with a new coach/GM on the way. Especially since Chris likely has friends in various positions too. Why risk the possibility of some internal power struggle or potentially undermining the new GM? Let him have his own crew so we can finally have a well run ship.
Welcome to the internet  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/12/2022 9:56 pm : link
Having no idea what the fuck they are talking about doesn't stop people from loudly voicing their uninformed opinions.
I haven’t seen such a flow of extremist views and propaganda  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2022 10:08 pm : link
filled messages against an establishment since watching Rise of The Nazis on PBS a few years ago.

Who’s ready for a little goose-stepping down the streets of Berlin if their preferred GM candidate doesn’t get the job?







RE: RE: Does ANYONE really know his role?  
SMitch-56 : 1/12/2022 10:08 pm : link
In comment 15550165 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15550147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I have seen it run the gamut.



Yes based on today...

* he writes a few scouting reports on some college players and loads it into the player database they maintain;
* he gets to fly to the draft and sit in the war room;
* he is in-charge of logging onto the Zoom call for the GM candidate interviews

Did I miss anything?


Yep, and that report, if faulty, could be enough to spike a really good player that we then pass on during the draft.

Problem is we don’t know., and the Giants can’t say. And worse, if it is some sort of identified problem even an outside GM may not be able to address because of CMs ownership status. Owners should OWN, and GMs run the front office and scouts should scout. Any mixture is bound to create potentially unsolvable issues.
RE: I haven’t seen such a flow of extremist views and propaganda  
SMitch-56 : 1/12/2022 10:14 pm : link
In comment 15550410 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
filled messages against an establishment since watching Rise of The Nazis on PBS a few years ago.

Who’s ready for a little goose-stepping down the streets of Berlin if their preferred GM candidate doesn’t get the job?

Comparing fans to Nazis? Brutal take on paying customers.
Then again you guys are so predictable — it’s a tell.




RE: …  
NoGainDayne : 1/12/2022 10:19 pm : link
In comment 15550270 christian said:
Quote:
As far as I know we’re all real people on this site — if anyone has evidence to the contrary that would be killer.

A little thought experiment: You apply for a high level job and you’re pretty familiar with the owners. You get the interview and they give you 3 names.

You take a quick look just to confirm. One is CEO/President, one is Chairman/EVP, one is SVP over a department that sounds an awful like what you do.

You then hear through the grapevine the SVP who will be at the interview and who is an owner “has no authority and won’t be making the decisions.”

This is weird, no?


It's super weird. And honestly they are so over the top in their meddling defensiveness it's super odd. Ultimately it aligns though, I think John especially is kind of a coward and knows as long as he plays down the influence it's easier to avoid the Chris should be fired conversation.

I grabbed this quote about Tim in the other thread too

Quote:
Tim (McDonnell) is probably the most respected guy we have in this building. The coaches, front office staff, the general manager go to him and ask his advice on players because he is a good evaluator. He’s worked his way up from the bottom and he’s earned his stripes. He does not have any authority here.


This is another odd one. For me, when you talk about someone having a close relationship with the people at the top as well as apparently gobs of respect. You'd think that would get you authority? Regardless of if it's explicit or implicit. Nobody is ever like "that guy Tim, super sharp, everyone respects him, he's the future CEO of the company. That guy has no authority."

This is the kind of thing you get with a CEO that's never had to work a real job. Nobody talks like that. Who are you trying to convince of that? Look we get it, you don't want to fire your brother or your nephew but just own that instead of trying to create these weird narratives where you very ineffectively duck the topic.

I feel like going along with statements like this is like ending the press conference and calling up Chris. "Did you catch that one, whew that was close. They ALMOST figured out that you have a big impact on the decisions here"
Chris Mara, according to his job description,  
Jerry in_DC : 1/12/2022 10:40 pm : link
is responsible for player personnel. This is a real position in NFL front offices. Its the position that Joe Horvitz has, for example.

If Chris Mara does nothing, then who does this job??? It seems like kind of an important job. Its a position that is a stepping stone to GM - many candidates we are interviewing have a job like this.

So either Mara is doing SOMETHING or he's doing nothing and we are not getting any value from what would appear to be an important position.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What's...  
ron mexico : 1/12/2022 10:49 pm : link
In comment 15550253 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550244 kdog77 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550230 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:

I’ve yet to talk to one person, not single one in the real world who cares what Chris Maras title or involvement is.

This is as “fake news” as it gets.



You are posting on a fan run site dedicated to a team that has gone 22-59 over the past 5 years and 61-100 over the past 10 years and wondering why the fans are obsessed about the ownership and front office structure of that team? Seriously? Maybe the people you meet in the real world don't care b/c they are not die hard fans who punish themselves every Sunday watching this crap team.



At this point I don’t think you guys even know what you are complaining about anymore. Go look at any GM thread prior to yesterday. All are full of proclamations about how we are going from DG straight to Abrams and that he will be nothing more than Maras errand boy. The GM search is a ruse, just so Mara can make sure we are all faked out. Well, the complete opposite happened. So now it’s on to Chris mara and his title.

And no, plenty of people I know are die hards, they don’t care about message boards or social media.


Are you doubting the fact that the plan was to move on to Abrams eventually? That is what they wanted to do?

What does it say that they wanted to put a non personnel guy in charge?

These are all valid questions to be asked and Mara’s incredulity at the mere mention of the issue was a bit much

RE: it's  
GiantTuff1 : 1/12/2022 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15550145 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
one easy step to make this all go away. One step.


x1000

Make it two for the price of one and throw in Timmy too.
There is another way  
ron mexico : 1/12/2022 10:57 pm : link
Start winning some fucking games
 
christian : 1/12/2022 10:58 pm : link
The Giants have been no good for 10 years. A lot has to be wrong to be this bad for this long.

This is one of those two things can be true at the same time scenarios:

1) The GM and coach needed to be fired and replaced by better talent

and

2) It’s weird and potentially disruptive the player personnel department is led by two members of the ownership family who may or may not have any say
RE: …  
ron mexico : 1/12/2022 11:05 pm : link
In comment 15550474 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants have been no good for 10 years. A lot has to be wrong to be this bad for this long.

This is one of those two things can be true at the same time scenarios:

1) The GM and coach needed to be fired and replaced by better talent

and

2) It’s weird and potentially disruptive the player personnel department is led by two members of the ownership family who may or may not have any say


Don’t forget that the guys who have no say are both extremely talented and well respected inside and outside the building.
 
christian : 1/12/2022 11:20 pm : link
And the little one advises on all personnel decisions and strategic planning.

Plus he won the 2004 Unsung Hero Award as the player who supported the team spiritually, emotionally and physically for the good of the team.
RE: They fired Gettlemen  
Brown_Hornet : 1/12/2022 11:36 pm : link
In comment 15550370 UberAlias said:
Quote:
It wasn’t good enough.
They fired Judge. Still not good enough.
They’ve stated clearly the new GM and HC make the decisions on personnel.
Not good enough
The Maras aren’t selling the team. So if that’s the only thing that will lead some to acknowledge progress, why are you wasting your time here?
Ding...
...thread killer!
RE: It's odd that you talk about obession  
clatterbuck : 1/12/2022 11:40 pm : link
In comment 15550323 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
I wouldn't say the people here talk about him any more than the rest of the key people on the Giants.

But I have observed you, OP, talk about the Giants the Giants ownership more than you talk about much else. So perhaps it is YOU that is obsessed.


Don't think this is accurate but whatever.
RE: Most of this is on DG, some on JJ  
Breaker : 1/12/2022 11:45 pm : link
Cleaning house means everyone. Whoever has been involved in the draft board or college evaluations and pro personnel evaluations should have a hard time keeping their job. Why wouldnt you clean house after the draft and pro personnel decision making process over last ten years.
The burden is on those who say he should keep his job. Any other organization the director of personnel would be out. Why should it be different here?
FWIW, Stephen Jones Has been in Cowboys'  
clatterbuck : 1/13/2022 12:12 am : link
front office since his daddy bought the team in 1989. He's now COO, SR VP/Director of Player Personnel. Art Rooney Jr. is Steelers vice president. His father, Art Rooney, is president. Dan Rooney Jr. is Player Personnel Coordinator. There may be other examples of family members playing senior roles in NFL franchises which are family-owned businesses, Packers being the exception.
RE: Chris Mara, according to his job description,  
WillVAB : 1/13/2022 12:18 am : link
In comment 15550452 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
is responsible for player personnel. This is a real position in NFL front offices. Its the position that Joe Horvitz has, for example.

If Chris Mara does nothing, then who does this job??? It seems like kind of an important job. Its a position that is a stepping stone to GM - many candidates we are interviewing have a job like this.

So either Mara is doing SOMETHING or he's doing nothing and we are not getting any value from what would appear to be an important position.


This is the point I’ve made in the past. There’s no positive way to spin this. Either he sucks at his job and influences decisions with his shitty evals (my opinion) or he just has a title and cashes checks, effectively eliminating the role from adding value to the organization.
RE: FWIW, Stephen Jones Has been in Cowboys'  
WillVAB : 1/13/2022 12:21 am : link
In comment 15550517 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
front office since his daddy bought the team in 1989. He's now COO, SR VP/Director of Player Personnel. Art Rooney Jr. is Steelers vice president. His father, Art Rooney, is president. Dan Rooney Jr. is Player Personnel Coordinator. There may be other examples of family members playing senior roles in NFL franchises which are family-owned businesses, Packers being the exception.


When the Giants start drafting as well as those organizations, Chris Mara can appoint the family dog to an executive role with the Giants.
Is anyone else noticing  
Mike from Ohio : 1/13/2022 12:21 am : link
how many Chris Mara threads are being started by people who hate that he is being talked about?
Defending nepotism, I've seen it all.  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 1/13/2022 5:18 am : link
This franchise is possibly at the lowest point in a CENTURY mostly due to a terrible roster and there are fans defending john Mara for saying the two top guys who evaluate pro and college players for us are the best he can get and just happen to be family.

I'm sorry but if you buy this you're pathetic. If you think this is a non story you're fooling yourself.
RE: FWIW, Stephen Jones Has been in Cowboys'  
bw in dc : 1/13/2022 7:20 am : link
In comment 15550517 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
front office since his daddy bought the team in 1989. He's now COO, SR VP/Director of Player Personnel. Art Rooney Jr. is Steelers vice president. His father, Art Rooney, is president. Dan Rooney Jr. is Player Personnel Coordinator. There may be other examples of family members playing senior roles in NFL franchises which are family-owned businesses, Packers being the exception.


Those are fair points. But, as you know, those organizations have won more lately. Which dims the light.

Plus, for Dallas, it's fairly well acknowledged that Will McClay is the Oracle of that draft room.
Ok, Chris  
jeff57 : 1/13/2022 7:24 am : link
.
The family guys in other organizations could  
Jerry in_DC : 1/13/2022 7:29 am : link
- actually be good at their jobs
- be effective in navigating the very delicate balance between owner and subordinate
- be a small negative that is overcome by good talent/processes around them

To be fair Chris could be those things too. None of us are there. But his promotion coincided exactly with a massive downgrade in talent acquisition and complete failure of the team on the field.

There are so many signs that point to this being bad from so many different angles. There are literally no signs of it being good. Why are some people so enthusiastic to give these guys the benefit of the doubt??
RE: RE: it's  
Mayo2JZ : 1/13/2022 7:37 am : link
In comment 15550166 BlackLight said:
Quote:
In comment 15550145 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


one easy step to make this all go away. One step.



Nope. The Venn Diagram of people who are outraged that Chris Mara is taking notes in these GM interviews, people who would be outraged if Mara/Tisch were the only ones in the room, and people who would be outraged if they promoted from within, and people who would be outraged if they hired a consultant to feed them candidates, is a perfect circle.

When the new GM and HC are hired, I hope Chris Mara introduces them both at the introductory press with John Mara not even in the building. So that the resulting collective stroke in the fanbase might cause the aggregate sanity quotient to tick back up a few points.


Ha ha ha. Brother that is the best post of the day!
When you win..  
Dnew15 : 1/13/2022 7:37 am : link
you can do whatever you want. Owners can meddle, hire family and friends, have loose cogs in the wheel - no one cares.

When things start going wrong (oh my - have they gone wrong) and organizations start preachin about how they've hit rock bottom and they're gonna clean house, they're gonna get all right people in the right spots and they keep those family and friends that are loose cogs in the wheel...well...then nothing is going to change.
I think this team lost its way  
Debaser : 1/13/2022 9:26 am : link
when Mara decided Victor Cruz was going to be the guy and jettisoned some great players like Bradshaw and Jacobs to do it.And that does in fact coincide with his promotion in 2011.He also said Webb was the best QB in his draft class. Which I guess could be forgiven. I do not believe for a minute he didn't have a say in hiring dipsh*t Mcaddoo who was a disaster and brought this franchies really low and it never recovered. It was not that Mcadoo was a bad coach either (he was) it is just how obtuse pairing him with a still fairly young Eli with a guy who was west coast offense short opassing coach with someone like Eli who wants to throw deep like every play if he could. Shurmur was equally bad so was judge. And so was drafting Danny "Dimes" and barkley.

You mean he did not have a say in these things? At this point though it looks like he has to have learned something by now and looks to be doing the right things; interviewing GMs and firing Judge. When they trade Jones and / or barkley then I know they are for real.
what are you talking about?  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2022 9:31 am : link
Jacobs was finished as a player in 2011 - hurt and largely ineffective in 2011. Bradshaw was good through 2012 (where he was a Giant) and his health took a nosedive, we made the right decision there too.
RE: I think this team lost its way  
Dnew15 : 1/13/2022 9:32 am : link
In comment 15550773 Debaser said:
Quote:
when Mara decided Victor Cruz was going to be the guy and jettisoned some great players like Bradshaw and Jacobs to do it.And that does in fact coincide with his promotion in 2011.He also said Webb was the best QB in his draft class. Which I guess could be forgiven. I do not believe for a minute he didn't have a say in hiring dipsh*t Mcaddoo who was a disaster and brought this franchies really low and it never recovered. It was not that Mcadoo was a bad coach either (he was) it is just how obtuse pairing him with a still fairly young Eli with a guy who was west coast offense short opassing coach with someone like Eli who wants to throw deep like every play if he could. Shurmur was equally bad so was judge. And so was drafting Danny "Dimes" and barkley.

You mean he did not have a say in these things? At this point though it looks like he has to have learned something by now and looks to be doing the right things; interviewing GMs and firing Judge. When they trade Jones and / or barkley then I know they are for real.


Of course he did.

There was literally zero difference between the end of Reece's tenure and DG's tenure as GM when it comes to evaluating college and professional talent. Nor was there any difference between the end of McAdoo, Shurmer and Judge tenures as HC.

You tell me what the common denominator is since it's not the GM and/or coaches.
RE: what are you talking about?  
Debaser : 1/13/2022 9:54 am : link
In comment 15550787 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Jacobs was finished as a player in 2011 - hurt and largely ineffective in 2011. Bradshaw was good through 2012 (where he was a Giant) and his health took a nosedive, we made the right decision there too.


Bradshaw played for the Colts for 3 seasons and his production didn't fall off until his last year. And Jacobs was always just jacobs. The 2 of them together is what made them very effective. It didn't show up on a stat sheet as they were ranked like 30th in the NFL rushing, but they brought an attitude to this team that really helped this team win big games.
You are delusional  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2022 10:13 am : link
Jacobs was finished in 2011. And Bradshaw had 160 carries with he colts in 3 seasons, he was done too.
RE: You are delusional  
Debaser : 1/13/2022 10:18 am : link
In comment 15550868 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Jacobs was finished in 2011. And Bradshaw had 160 carries with he colts in 3 seasons, he was done too.


OK Whatever. Maybe not the best examples but, I think the point is made that they either replaced players or needed to replace players and Mara was most certainly involved in this process that really laid this team low back then. His subsequent coaching hires and drafts were not helpful.
you are trying to fit everything in a timeline and match it to Mara  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2022 10:32 am : link
and you cherrypicked an example that actually isn't what you are claiming it is. And I didn't even touch Cruz who actually was exactly what you are trying to say Jacobs/Bradshaw was - a lightening rod that absolutely rocked the stadium. Him getting an extension instead of Bradshaw and Jacbos was 100% the correct move only it had an unfortunate ending out of anyone's control or foresight. It's like trying to say Hakeem Nicks was a wasted pick because he got injured, it doesn't compute.
Why defend him?  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/13/2022 10:40 am : link
If he is good at his job, it sure didnt reflect on the field.
Eric has said in the past that be doesn't think Chris Mara is a problem and even he realizes it would just be easier to take the title away.
Correlation isn't causation but the timeline is when Mara took over as Sr VP, our team entered the Dark Ages
RE: Why defend him?  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2022 10:45 am : link
In comment 15550945 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
If he is good at his job, it sure didnt reflect on the field.
Eric has said in the past that be doesn't think Chris Mara is a problem and even he realizes it would just be easier to take the title away.
Correlation isn't causation but the timeline is when Mara took over as Sr VP, our team entered the Dark Ages


I actually don't think i'm defending Chris Mara. I'm simply wondering how everyone is so sure he's the mastermind behind all of our losing. I typically try not to make assumptions in life and if I do, I try not to vehemently state them and disallow all opposing views.

The Giants just got rid of the 2 biggest culprits - the guy picking the talent and the guy coaching it. That likely took care of the majority of the problem. The rest we have no idea and area also not even allowing for the possibility of learning from mistake, like John Mara just displayed that he's doing.
RE: RE: Why defend him?  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/13/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15550962 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550945 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


If he is good at his job, it sure didnt reflect on the field.
Eric has said in the past that be doesn't think Chris Mara is a problem and even he realizes it would just be easier to take the title away.
Correlation isn't causation but the timeline is when Mara took over as Sr VP, our team entered the Dark Ages



I actually don't think i'm defending Chris Mara. I'm simply wondering how everyone is so sure he's the mastermind behind all of our losing. I typically try not to make assumptions in life and if I do, I try not to vehemently state them and disallow all opposing views.

The Giants just got rid of the 2 biggest culprits - the guy picking the talent and the guy coaching it. That likely took care of the majority of the problem. The rest we have no idea and area also not even allowing for the possibility of learning from mistake, like John Mara just displayed that he's doing.


Fair enough. I'll admit none of us KNOW what he does...I'd just rather have someone other than an "owner" doing it. Other teams have guys in the same position and have won Super Bowls. Let's try that out.
RE: you are trying to fit everything in a timeline and match it to Mara  
Debaser : 1/13/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15550929 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and you cherrypicked an example that actually isn't what you are claiming it is. And I didn't even touch Cruz who actually was exactly what you are trying to say Jacobs/Bradshaw was - a lightening rod that absolutely rocked the stadium. Him getting an extension instead of Bradshaw and Jacbos was 100% the correct move only it had an unfortunate ending out of anyone's control or foresight. It's like trying to say Hakeem Nicks was a wasted pick because he got injured, it doesn't compute.


I admitted it was not the best example. You are choosing to go into detail about it and failing to see the forest for the trees. The forest is roster moves made by Mara in his new job that laid this team low. Not whether or not he got the Vic Cruz signing right. (He didn't anyway). I didn't like it and still feel there has not been as good running in 10 years wo the Bradshaw and Jacobs.
i'm responding to the 3 examples you gave  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2022 10:55 am : link
don't get mad at me for that, you brought it up.
RE: i'm responding to the 3 examples you gave  
Debaser : 1/13/2022 11:28 am : link
In comment 15550999 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
don't get mad at me for that, you brought it up.


Meanwhile Bradshaw got hurt his first year with the Colts. The same argument you are giving as to why it was smart to move on from Bradhsaw is the one you are using to defend the Cruz extension.

Cruz was an undrafted guy that Eli made a star. His last year was Odells first. No one knows what Bradshaw could have been and no one knew he would have gotten hurt. You could have just drafted another big bruiser back and kept that thunder and lightning combo.
Chris Mara  
Khs1982 : 1/13/2022 10:18 pm : link
Look it doesn't matter what role he played but he is the senior VP of player evaluation. How would you grade player evaluation based on the success of the team? He has to be part of the problem and needs to go. Who cares who is treasurer they don't create this roster. But whoever is involved with the horrible roster needs to go. Give him a job like overseeing nonfootball employees, branding, getting sponsorships who cares but just change the entire player evaluation group. He might be a great guy but if you had a business that had been run like this one you would fire every one in the failing divisions. I don't think anyone is obsessed with him they are obsessed with the failure of this once proud franchise.
RE: RE: i'm responding to the 3 examples you gave  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2022 10:29 pm : link
In comment 15551116 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15550999 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


don't get mad at me for that, you brought it up.



Meanwhile Bradshaw got hurt his first year with the Colts. The same argument you are giving as to why it was smart to move on from Bradhsaw is the one you are using to defend the Cruz extension.

Cruz was an undrafted guy that Eli made a star. His last year was Odells first. No one knows what Bradshaw could have been and no one knew he would have gotten hurt. You could have just drafted another big bruiser back and kept that thunder and lightning combo.


Cruz was a WR with no real real injury history. Bradshaw had constant foot and ankle issues and was a RB. Do I need to go on?

We already knew Bradshaw was injury prone, did you follow the team and his injuries?
All this discussion about Chris Mara and guessing as to  
chick310 : 1/14/2022 8:54 am : link
his involvement and blame in the situation has been entertaining to say the least. Not sure I even remember reading a thread about Chris Mara before this New Year started so he really is causing some recent drama.

However, I get that fans want to clean up whatever ails the Giants from a player personnel perspective. John Mara should as well and make this a very easy decision and have his brother back away here from his role/responsibilities in his SVP capacity.

Chris Mara can still interact with a new GM on his opinions with college players but it can be done in a much more subtle manner than having a formal title and place within the department. The media and fans probably wouldn't like that either but it would kill the story and fans would never know otherwise.
Well  
darktimes : 1/14/2022 8:58 am : link
People complaining about Chris Mara are probably the same people that buy in to conspiracy theories. If Chris Mara actually forced things on this team in some fashion, then it would have come out.

Just like we get stories with John Mara's meddling with things like Eli, Garret or other coaches/players.

Just say'in.
Chris Mara is either  
uther99 : 1/14/2022 12:58 pm : link
A- doing nothing of real impact, which is a waste of having a SVP of PP role in the organization; OR

B- he sucks at his job.

RE: Chris Mara is either  
Jerry in_DC : 1/14/2022 1:03 pm : link
In comment 15553025 uther99 said:
Quote:
A- doing nothing of real impact, which is a waste of having a SVP of PP role in the organization; OR

B- he sucks at his job.


Yes. It's so simple and obviously true. Not sure why people can't understand this.
RE: RE: Chris Mara is either  
UConn4523 : 1/14/2022 1:06 pm : link
In comment 15553032 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15553025 uther99 said:


Quote:


A- doing nothing of real impact, which is a waste of having a SVP of PP role in the organization; OR

B- he sucks at his job.




Yes. It's so simple and obviously true. Not sure why people can't understand this.


I love how there isn’t an option C, personally. And that’s a growing theme on this thread and many others, that things are 100% black or white.
RE: Defending nepotism, I've seen it all.  
Thegratefulhead : 1/14/2022 1:56 pm : link
In comment 15550559 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
This franchise is possibly at the lowest point in a CENTURY mostly due to a terrible roster and there are fans defending john Mara for saying the two top guys who evaluate pro and college players for us are the best he can get and just happen to be family.

I'm sorry but if you buy this you're pathetic. If you think this is a non story you're fooling yourself.
Agree
Personally  
Thegratefulhead : 1/14/2022 1:59 pm : link
I think Judge got fired because of all the Chris Mara talk. Wag the dog.
RE: Read the article  
WideRight : 1/14/2022 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15550200 David_Upstate said:
Quote:
Maybe this.... This explains it perfectly - ( New Window )


It does, except for one thing: the franchise isn't struggling. It's making more money than the Mara's ever dreamed of. Since his pocketbook is doing fine John Mara will tolerate his brother. It's easier just to have these sob fests with the media every few years.

The real shame is that Chris Mara watches the guys he worked closely with - Gettlemen and Jusgde - get fired, and he doesn't recognize that he too should be sent packing. Extremely hypocritical of him, and that alone proves he lacks appropriate self-awareness to be successful at anything.

Again, Chris Mara doesn't have to be successful in W/L because the family evaluates the franchise in $$
riddle me this  
Dave : 1/14/2022 4:20 pm : link
when the owners brother is in the room, do you think anyone is going to contradict whatever he says?

so for jm to say cm has no authority is absurd
furthermore  
Dave : 1/14/2022 4:21 pm : link
if cm is such a great talent evaluator why is this roster so weak?
Here's the problem  
Joey in VA : 1/14/2022 4:25 pm : link
When Jerry Reese was GM he had DG as the Pro Personnel guy, a role he did very well in pre-2011. Under Accorsi, Jerry Reese who was a very talented evaluator, was the head of college scouting. Now you'll bring in a GM with a supposedly non influential but respected mind in Chris Mara. Chris Pettit, our current head of college scouting has lorded over our last 4 drafts and we know how that's going.

Look at the Titans and 49ers execs we are looking at. They are in the role Chris Mara has and Chris Pettit has, all while under highly successful GMs. We need more than one new voice in there and keeping Chris in that role ad infinitum is a problem. We currently have zero well respected front office types and we are looking at some young personnel guys who are cogs in well run machines. We need more of those, which is why Chris should surrender his title and just keep doing what he's doing.
RE: riddle me this  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2022 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15553334 Dave said:
Quote:
when the owners brother is in the room, do you think anyone is going to contradict whatever he says?

so for jm to say cm has no authority is absurd


Are you kidding...you don't think they have gone against Chris' recommendations?

You make it seem like they don't even create a board with tiers. They just print off whatever college players Chris has loaded into the database and fly off to the draft.

absurd is the right sentiment...
RE: furthermore  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2022 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15553336 Dave said:
Quote:
if cm is such a great talent evaluator why is this roster so weak?


Who said he is great?

The roster is weak because they have had a weak GM that has a weak roster building plan, weak player evaluation process, and probably has weak people in the front office that report to him.
Someone explain to me why Chris Mara  
arniefez : 1/14/2022 4:53 pm : link
shouldn't have the title Co-Owner? Would he has less input on player personnel? Would any of his day to day responsibilities change? Wouldn't it be a much better perception in every way? Of course owners should have a say in who their team picks, of course an owner should have a sign off on any large long term contract or any contract if that's what they want. Wouldn't it go a long way to changing the perception of why the Giants are a mess and that they are stuck in the 20th century if the Mara's were owners not the SRVP of player personnel. That's a position on almost every NFL team that's 2nd in command to the GM in the football operation.

I'll ask another way. Chris Mara has been SRVP of player personnel since 2011. That will be 3 GMs and 6 HC's in about a month. What other SRVP of player personnel would survive that kind of turnover?
The kind who's connected to ownership.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2022 4:56 pm : link
Someone said it earlier but it's an accepted thing in the NFL.
RE: Here's the problem  
Platos : 1/14/2022 5:12 pm : link
In comment 15553344 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
When Jerry Reese was GM he had DG as the Pro Personnel guy, a role he did very well in pre-2011. Under Accorsi, Jerry Reese who was a very talented evaluator, was the head of college scouting. Now you'll bring in a GM with a supposedly non influential but respected mind in Chris Mara. Chris Pettit, our current head of college scouting has lorded over our last 4 drafts and we know how that's going.

Look at the Titans and 49ers execs we are looking at. They are in the role Chris Mara has and Chris Pettit has, all while under highly successful GMs. We need more than one new voice in there and keeping Chris in that role ad infinitum is a problem. We currently have zero well respected front office types and we are looking at some young personnel guys who are cogs in well run machines. We need more of those, which is why Chris should surrender his title and just keep doing what he's doing.


its as simple as that.

even the position doesn't make sense here. We essentially have 3 director or player personnel guys.

just give Chris some goofy title and move him out of the department. the nephew McConnell might have better experience than Chris! he at least worked for another program and played the game.

Koncz was a DG hire he brought from Carolina.

its ridiculous, why need 3 guys for 1 position and we're still suck at drafting and signing the right free agents.
RE: Someone explain to me why Chris Mara  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2022 6:06 pm : link
In comment 15553373 arniefez said:
Quote:


I'll ask another way. Chris Mara has been SRVP of player personnel since 2011. That will be 3 GMs and 6 HC's in about a month. What other SRVP of player personnel would survive that kind of turnover?


maybe the kind that nobody relies upon for anything, other than his older brother on occasion...
RE: RE: furthermore  
Dave : 1/14/2022 6:14 pm : link
In comment 15553354 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15553336 Dave said:


Quote:


if cm is such a great talent evaluator why is this roster so weak?

jm said so


Who said he is great?

The roster is weak because they have had a weak GM that has a weak roster building plan, weak player evaluation process, and probably has weak people in the front office that report to him.
RE: RE: riddle me this  
Dave : 1/14/2022 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15553345 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15553334 Dave said:


Quote:


when the owners brother is in the room, do you think anyone is going to contradict whatever he says?

that is not what i said JG, but if you think there is going to be robust discussion contradicting the owners brother I think you are either naive or have never been in those types of meetings

so for jm to say cm has no authority is absurd



Are you kidding...you don't think they have gone against Chris' recommendations?

You make it seem like they don't even create a board with tiers. They just print off whatever college players Chris has loaded into the database and fly off to the draft.

absurd is the right sentiment...
RE: Defending nepotism, I've seen it all.  
GMen72 : 1/14/2022 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15550559 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
This franchise is possibly at the lowest point in a CENTURY mostly due to a terrible roster and there are fans defending john Mara for saying the two top guys who evaluate pro and college players for us are the best he can get and just happen to be family.

I'm sorry but if you buy this you're pathetic. If you think this is a non story you're fooling yourself.


X2
Not for nothing, but I have attended many mngt and board meetings  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2022 6:31 pm : link
of family run businesses where family members also work in various high level positions. Some where the family members are strong and some where there are clear-cut morons. I advise them as objectively as possible nonetheless. So curb the naive pot shots please.

With that said, you are just making things up that a robust conversation is impossible to have with the Giants and their family members. And directly contradicting what John Mara even publicly said as to who the decision makers are and how differences, if any, are resolved.

I can respond to this nonsense all day long. I have said numerous times my preference would be to remove Chris from that position but not enough to care if they don't.

And until you bring something compelling to a post that Chris matters significantly and matters in a negative way, I will take the high road and continue to suggest that replacing the GM with a competent professional is what really matters here...
RE: RE: RE: i'm responding to the 3 examples you gave  
Debaser : 1/14/2022 7:08 pm : link
In comment 15552283 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15551116 Debaser said:


Quote:


In comment 15550999 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


don't get mad at me for that, you brought it up.



Meanwhile Bradshaw got hurt his first year with the Colts. The same argument you are giving as to why it was smart to move on from Bradhsaw is the one you are using to defend the Cruz extension.

Cruz was an undrafted guy that Eli made a star. His last year was Odells first. No one knows what Bradshaw could have been and no one knew he would have gotten hurt. You could have just drafted another big bruiser back and kept that thunder and lightning combo.



Cruz was a WR with no real real injury history. Bradshaw had constant foot and ankle issues and was a RB. Do I need to go on?

We already knew Bradshaw was injury prone, did you follow the team and his injuries?


I don't remember Bradshaw injuries but I don't think Cruz was like this guy who was on the field all the time either.

Ahmad Bradshaw in his highest earning year was 3 mil . Cruz had a 40 million dollar 5 year deal and was pretty much not the same player after signing it. Do you always have to such a smug , condescending douche .
I have largely refrained from the Chris Mara threads  
.McL. : 1/14/2022 7:22 pm : link
But here is my take.

I believe John when he says that Chris/Tim have no direct power/authority to make personnel decisions. I added a key word to that sentence "direct".

Chris and Tim have plenty of indirect influence. They write evaluations that are used as inputs to the draft board. People go to them for "advice" and "opinions" about players. They participate in the draft. Chris participate in interviews. These are things that they do that have been stated outright. I do not believe they are shadow GMs. I do not believe that they pound the table for "their" guy. There is a distinction here, their influence is more subtle, indirect, and potentially insidious than that.

Now put yourself in the position of being a scout and you know Chris and Tim feel a certain way about a player. Maybe you are not so sure, but hey, on paper these guys are your boss, AND they are owners. Will you consider kissing a little ass and agreeing with them when your opinion is on the margin?

How about being the GM. And you know that Chris and Tim filed a bunch of reports about some players. And they have been talking them up. Maybe your opinion is on the margin, or maybe you didn't have time to do a thorough evaluation of the player. And of course Chris and Tim are owners so, yeah they kinda work for you, but they are also kinda your boss. I mean they were in the interview room... It's a good bet they are in the room when the firings are being discussed. So do you decide to kiss a little ass and move the benefit of the doubt towards these guys who may decide your fate.

In both cases, if you are the contrarian, and are wrong, you are going to have a load of dog shit on your shoe.

This kind of influence is indirect and not very obvious. John speaks the truth, but be careful. Truths can deceive. When the GM start adjusting their opinions to make meet the opinions of those who decide his fate, where does it stop. Once on that slippery slope, how far is the slide. Ultimately there is no way to really measure how much influence really exists. Maybe its a little, maybe its a ton. That is what makes this dangerous, and insidious. The fact that John says that they are "well respected" and go to individuals should send up huge red flags that the situation is at the very least leaning into dangerous territory.

All that said. I have stayed out of this discussion because I have no idea what is really going on in people's minds in that building. I don't think there really is a way of ever figuring that out in this situation. I don't think John knows, nor do Chris and Tim. Nobody can accurately measure it.

The mere fact that it keeps coming up as an issue suggests that Eric is correct. Just remove the titles.
Remove the title from Chris Mara and he can still do everything  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 8:48 am : link
that you mentioned above in the same indirect manner as an owner. So what does that really achieve?

Or are you suggesting remove him altogether from the building in every capacity?
RE: Remove the title from Chris Mara and he can still do everything  
.McL. : 1/15/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15553736 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that you mentioned above in the same indirect manner as an owner. So what does that really achieve?

Or are you suggesting remove him altogether from the building in every capacity?

Except titles have a different psychological effect on people. Innately we all know this.
RE: RE: Remove the title from Chris Mara and he can still do everything  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15553905 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 15553736 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


that you mentioned above in the same indirect manner as an owner. So what does that really achieve?

Or are you suggesting remove him altogether from the building in every capacity?


Except titles have a different psychological effect on people. Innately we all know this.


McL - with all due respect, the only ones that may be having any psychological effect with Chris' title are the fans/media.

Everybody in Jints Central knows he is an owner whether he has no title, is SVP of Player Personnel or the Audio/Visual Manager...
Googs  
.McL. : 1/15/2022 2:24 pm : link
Then, if his title is so meaningless, remove it...
Why is there resistance in the building to removing the titles.

Titles mean something.
Chris Mara  
Pete in MD : 1/15/2022 2:24 pm : link
has a title and collects a paycheck but does very little because his family owns the team. He’s not the issue. Do you think a real front office person can leave during the draft to go watch his horse race? I don’t think he has a ton of real influence.
Would people be OK if our offensive coordinator  
Jerry in_DC : 1/15/2022 2:36 pm : link
didn't do anything?

"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."

Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.

If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??
..  
Jerry in_DC : 1/15/2022 2:49 pm : link
"Hi, we're with the SEC and we have some questions about your aduit. We need to talk to the CFO."

"Well...the CFO is part of the family, so he doesn't really do anything. He just looks at some numbers and makes suggestions. Really well respected though. "

"Ah..ceremonial title? Ok let's talk to his deputy, the one who's really in charge."

"Well...he's actually part of the family too. He also doesn't really do anything. He's really really well respected though"

"OK, we need to talk to someone from finance. Who is in charge?"

"Well...we kind of just do things together. Like someone has an idea and then we talk about it some. There no real way to say that someone is "in charge" so to speak... Did I mention that a lot of our team is really well respected?"
.  
Slowasski : 1/15/2022 2:51 pm : link
I don't see any obsession with Chris Mara anywhere on this thread. The thread has barely 130 replies.
RE: Googs  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 2:52 pm : link
In comment 15554098 .McL. said:
Quote:
Then, if his title is so meaningless, remove it...
Why is there resistance in the building to removing the titles.

Titles mean something.


My guess is it means something to Chris...
RE: Would people be OK if our offensive coordinator  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15554114 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
didn't do anything?

"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."

Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.

If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??


I think you are missing the point. Those responsibilities in the Giants system are covered by the GM's office...
RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15554143 Slowasski said:
Quote:
I don't see any obsession with Chris Mara anywhere on this thread. The thread has barely 130 replies.


I am bit obsessed. Chris is all I think about these days...
RE: RE: Would people be OK if our offensive coordinator  
Jerry in_DC : 1/15/2022 4:18 pm : link
In comment 15554146 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15554114 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


didn't do anything?

"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."

Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.

If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??



I think you are missing the point. Those responsibilities in the Giants system are covered by the GM's office...


Sure. Because in "the Giants system" a key executive role is filled by an empty suit. Wouldn't it be better to use "every other team's system" and fil an important executive role with a competent executive?
The Mara’s and Tisch’s own this team  
Giants73 : 1/15/2022 4:35 pm : link
They want to employ their family it is a benefit of ownership. Sure most of us would want our family to take over or businesses when we retire.
RE: RE: RE: Would people be OK if our offensive coordinator  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 4:56 pm : link
In comment 15554271 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15554146 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15554114 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


didn't do anything?

"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."

Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.

If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??



I think you are missing the point. Those responsibilities in the Giants system are covered by the GM's office...



Sure. Because in "the Giants system" a key executive role is filled by an empty suit. Wouldn't it be better to use "every other team's system" and fil an important executive role with a competent executive?


Huh? If those job responsibilities are someone else’s in the NYG system what does it matter?

The Mara's  
PaulN : 1/19/2022 9:28 am : link
Did a poor job, there is nothing to argue about, John Mara admitted it, they are getting a GM to take over everything, except ownership, and that will not change until a Mara or Tisch says its over. Time to end all the bullshit stories, the genius deductions, all of it, and time to be a fan, not am expert, we are not that.
RE: The Mara's  
Thegratefulhead : 1/19/2022 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15560536 PaulN said:
Quote:
Did a poor job, there is nothing to argue about, John Mara admitted it, they are getting a GM to take over everything, except ownership, and that will not change until a Mara or Tisch says its over. Time to end all the bullshit stories, the genius deductions, all of it, and time to be a fan, not am expert, we are not that.
The moment they put a reasonable product back on the field is when they get the benefit of the doubt again.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction, this is 10 years of suckage with only one constant. Owners, glad they admitted it, they are the hot seat until it is fixed, if we are sitting with double digit losses after next season, this is going to look like a fucking picnic.

No more excuses, plenty of other things to spend my time and money on. we were a clown show this year, the other teams and their fans are mocking us openly.
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