is both absurd and really tiresome. Does someone have any information on what decisions he's made, what player(s) he demanded be signed or drafted? If he has pressured scouts to upgrade or downgrade a player evaluation? We get it, a lot of fans don't like the fact he has a job in the organization. It's not ideal and it may be a distraction. But the constant, carping about what he does or doesn't do is silly, unsubstantiated bushwa. Is Chris Mara responsible for the sorry state of the franchise? Did he make the decision to sign Glenn instead of McCoy? Did he destroy the O-line? If so, let's see the receipts. If, not please give it a rest.
his exact words were that chris mara PARTICIPATES IN THE DRAFT
At this point I don’t think you guys even know what you are complaining about anymore. Go look at any GM thread prior to yesterday. All are full of proclamations about how we are going from DG straight to Abrams and that he will be nothing more than Maras errand boy. The GM search is a ruse, just so Mara can make sure we are all faked out. Well, the complete opposite happened. So now it’s on to Chris mara and his title.
And no, plenty of people I know are die hards, they don’t care about message boards or social media.
I'm guessing you recall the fake GM search that occurred in 2017 when DG was hired. And how Mara said he was going to conduct a wide search back then...Well, that was the ruse.
So with that precedence set, it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities, until they weren't, to think Mara might keep actually keep DG or promote Abrams.
The burden was on Mara to prove otherwise. And it seems like he's finally doing something that should have been done two years ago. Four years ago. Now it's time for him to put all the words he expressed today into action.
Well done
A little thought experiment: You apply for a high level job and you’re pretty familiar with the owners. You get the interview and they give you 3 names.
You take a quick look just to confirm. One is CEO/President, one is Chairman/EVP, one is SVP over a department that sounds an awful like what you do.
You then hear through the grapevine the SVP who will be at the interview and who is an owner “has no authority and won’t be making the decisions.”
This is weird, no?
What kind of dental plan are we talking about with this new outfit? That could sway the thought process one way or another...
But I have observed you, OP, talk about the Giants the Giants ownership more than you talk about much else. So perhaps it is YOU that is obsessed.
No GM can fix this with them in the mix. Can’t you see it?
DG says, “Hey Chris what do you think?
Chris Mara says, “I know John likes so-and-so, or hates so-and-so, or would never agree with this or that…”
DG to Chris Petit, Chris do you agree?
Chris Petit, “Yeah, I have to agree with Chris Mara.”
DG, “Well then, we know what to do…”
Too many Yes-men. Horrible business model.
Until this year DG never traded down…ever…. Hmmmm.
He was given the VP title in 2011. It is not a coincidence, it is fact.
He remains, coaches, GM's come and go and we continue to stink. The one constant is Chris Mara.
I don't believe what John Mara says regarding the role Chris plays. Why would John ever admit his part owner brother is part of the problem.
It's a dysfunctional ownership group leading to a dysfunctional team.
The past 10 years of failure speak to the dysfunction.
.
Or maybe his draft recommendations on college personnel aren’t guys they have drafted and they have done well for other teams, or he has given guys red flags but they still get taken by Reese or Getts.
Maybe Chris Mara has more hits than anybody in the org for the last decade but the GMs aren’t in aligned.
The possibilities are endless...
They fired Judge. Still not good enough.
They’ve stated clearly the new GM and HC make the decisions on personnel.
Not good enough
The Maras aren’t selling the team. So if that’s the only thing that will lead some to acknowledge progress, why are you wasting your time here?
What kind of dental plan are we talking about with this new outfit? That could sway the thought process one way or another...
No dental. You need a cleaning — Chris does it. Earning his keep.
Same. And Eric hit the nail on the head. I don’t understand how people can’t see why it’s an issue if he keeps that position with a new coach/GM on the way. Especially since Chris likely has friends in various positions too. Why risk the possibility of some internal power struggle or potentially undermining the new GM? Let him have his own crew so we can finally have a well run ship.
Who’s ready for a little goose-stepping down the streets of Berlin if their preferred GM candidate doesn’t get the job?
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I have seen it run the gamut.
Yes based on today...
* he writes a few scouting reports on some college players and loads it into the player database they maintain;
* he gets to fly to the draft and sit in the war room;
* he is in-charge of logging onto the Zoom call for the GM candidate interviews
Did I miss anything?
Yep, and that report, if faulty, could be enough to spike a really good player that we then pass on during the draft.
Problem is we don’t know., and the Giants can’t say. And worse, if it is some sort of identified problem even an outside GM may not be able to address because of CMs ownership status. Owners should OWN, and GMs run the front office and scouts should scout. Any mixture is bound to create potentially unsolvable issues.
Who’s ready for a little goose-stepping down the streets of Berlin if their preferred GM candidate doesn’t get the job?
Comparing fans to Nazis? Brutal take on paying customers.
Then again you guys are so predictable — it’s a tell.
A little thought experiment: You apply for a high level job and you’re pretty familiar with the owners. You get the interview and they give you 3 names.
You take a quick look just to confirm. One is CEO/President, one is Chairman/EVP, one is SVP over a department that sounds an awful like what you do.
You then hear through the grapevine the SVP who will be at the interview and who is an owner “has no authority and won’t be making the decisions.”
This is weird, no?
It's super weird. And honestly they are so over the top in their meddling defensiveness it's super odd. Ultimately it aligns though, I think John especially is kind of a coward and knows as long as he plays down the influence it's easier to avoid the Chris should be fired conversation.
I grabbed this quote about Tim in the other thread too
This is another odd one. For me, when you talk about someone having a close relationship with the people at the top as well as apparently gobs of respect. You'd think that would get you authority? Regardless of if it's explicit or implicit. Nobody is ever like "that guy Tim, super sharp, everyone respects him, he's the future CEO of the company. That guy has no authority."
This is the kind of thing you get with a CEO that's never had to work a real job. Nobody talks like that. Who are you trying to convince of that? Look we get it, you don't want to fire your brother or your nephew but just own that instead of trying to create these weird narratives where you very ineffectively duck the topic.
I feel like going along with statements like this is like ending the press conference and calling up Chris. "Did you catch that one, whew that was close. They ALMOST figured out that you have a big impact on the decisions here"
If Chris Mara does nothing, then who does this job??? It seems like kind of an important job. Its a position that is a stepping stone to GM - many candidates we are interviewing have a job like this.
So either Mara is doing SOMETHING or he's doing nothing and we are not getting any value from what would appear to be an important position.
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In comment 15550230 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15550161 Eric from BBI said:
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I’ve yet to talk to one person, not single one in the real world who cares what Chris Maras title or involvement is.
This is as “fake news” as it gets.
You are posting on a fan run site dedicated to a team that has gone 22-59 over the past 5 years and 61-100 over the past 10 years and wondering why the fans are obsessed about the ownership and front office structure of that team? Seriously? Maybe the people you meet in the real world don't care b/c they are not die hard fans who punish themselves every Sunday watching this crap team.
At this point I don’t think you guys even know what you are complaining about anymore. Go look at any GM thread prior to yesterday. All are full of proclamations about how we are going from DG straight to Abrams and that he will be nothing more than Maras errand boy. The GM search is a ruse, just so Mara can make sure we are all faked out. Well, the complete opposite happened. So now it’s on to Chris mara and his title.
And no, plenty of people I know are die hards, they don’t care about message boards or social media.
Are you doubting the fact that the plan was to move on to Abrams eventually? That is what they wanted to do?
What does it say that they wanted to put a non personnel guy in charge?
These are all valid questions to be asked and Mara’s incredulity at the mere mention of the issue was a bit much
x1000
Make it two for the price of one and throw in Timmy too.
This is one of those two things can be true at the same time scenarios:
1) The GM and coach needed to be fired and replaced by better talent
and
2) It’s weird and potentially disruptive the player personnel department is led by two members of the ownership family who may or may not have any say
This is one of those two things can be true at the same time scenarios:
1) The GM and coach needed to be fired and replaced by better talent
and
2) It’s weird and potentially disruptive the player personnel department is led by two members of the ownership family who may or may not have any say
Don’t forget that the guys who have no say are both extremely talented and well respected inside and outside the building.
Plus he won the 2004 Unsung Hero Award as the player who supported the team spiritually, emotionally and physically for the good of the team.
They fired Judge. Still not good enough.
They’ve stated clearly the new GM and HC make the decisions on personnel.
Not good enough
The Maras aren’t selling the team. So if that’s the only thing that will lead some to acknowledge progress, why are you wasting your time here?
...thread killer!
But I have observed you, OP, talk about the Giants the Giants ownership more than you talk about much else. So perhaps it is YOU that is obsessed.
Don't think this is accurate but whatever.
The burden is on those who say he should keep his job. Any other organization the director of personnel would be out. Why should it be different here?
If Chris Mara does nothing, then who does this job??? It seems like kind of an important job. Its a position that is a stepping stone to GM - many candidates we are interviewing have a job like this.
So either Mara is doing SOMETHING or he's doing nothing and we are not getting any value from what would appear to be an important position.
This is the point I’ve made in the past. There’s no positive way to spin this. Either he sucks at his job and influences decisions with his shitty evals (my opinion) or he just has a title and cashes checks, effectively eliminating the role from adding value to the organization.
When the Giants start drafting as well as those organizations, Chris Mara can appoint the family dog to an executive role with the Giants.
I'm sorry but if you buy this you're pathetic. If you think this is a non story you're fooling yourself.
Those are fair points. But, as you know, those organizations have won more lately. Which dims the light.
Plus, for Dallas, it's fairly well acknowledged that Will McClay is the Oracle of that draft room.
- be effective in navigating the very delicate balance between owner and subordinate
- be a small negative that is overcome by good talent/processes around them
To be fair Chris could be those things too. None of us are there. But his promotion coincided exactly with a massive downgrade in talent acquisition and complete failure of the team on the field.
There are so many signs that point to this being bad from so many different angles. There are literally no signs of it being good. Why are some people so enthusiastic to give these guys the benefit of the doubt??
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one easy step to make this all go away. One step.
Nope. The Venn Diagram of people who are outraged that Chris Mara is taking notes in these GM interviews, people who would be outraged if Mara/Tisch were the only ones in the room, and people who would be outraged if they promoted from within, and people who would be outraged if they hired a consultant to feed them candidates, is a perfect circle.
When the new GM and HC are hired, I hope Chris Mara introduces them both at the introductory press with John Mara not even in the building. So that the resulting collective stroke in the fanbase might cause the aggregate sanity quotient to tick back up a few points.
Ha ha ha. Brother that is the best post of the day!
When things start going wrong (oh my - have they gone wrong) and organizations start preachin about how they've hit rock bottom and they're gonna clean house, they're gonna get all right people in the right spots and they keep those family and friends that are loose cogs in the wheel...well...then nothing is going to change.
You mean he did not have a say in these things? At this point though it looks like he has to have learned something by now and looks to be doing the right things; interviewing GMs and firing Judge. When they trade Jones and / or barkley then I know they are for real.
You mean he did not have a say in these things? At this point though it looks like he has to have learned something by now and looks to be doing the right things; interviewing GMs and firing Judge. When they trade Jones and / or barkley then I know they are for real.
Of course he did.
There was literally zero difference between the end of Reece's tenure and DG's tenure as GM when it comes to evaluating college and professional talent. Nor was there any difference between the end of McAdoo, Shurmer and Judge tenures as HC.
You tell me what the common denominator is since it's not the GM and/or coaches.
Bradshaw played for the Colts for 3 seasons and his production didn't fall off until his last year. And Jacobs was always just jacobs. The 2 of them together is what made them very effective. It didn't show up on a stat sheet as they were ranked like 30th in the NFL rushing, but they brought an attitude to this team that really helped this team win big games.
OK Whatever. Maybe not the best examples but, I think the point is made that they either replaced players or needed to replace players and Mara was most certainly involved in this process that really laid this team low back then. His subsequent coaching hires and drafts were not helpful.
Eric has said in the past that be doesn't think Chris Mara is a problem and even he realizes it would just be easier to take the title away.
Correlation isn't causation but the timeline is when Mara took over as Sr VP, our team entered the Dark Ages
Eric has said in the past that be doesn't think Chris Mara is a problem and even he realizes it would just be easier to take the title away.
Correlation isn't causation but the timeline is when Mara took over as Sr VP, our team entered the Dark Ages
I actually don't think i'm defending Chris Mara. I'm simply wondering how everyone is so sure he's the mastermind behind all of our losing. I typically try not to make assumptions in life and if I do, I try not to vehemently state them and disallow all opposing views.
The Giants just got rid of the 2 biggest culprits - the guy picking the talent and the guy coaching it. That likely took care of the majority of the problem. The rest we have no idea and area also not even allowing for the possibility of learning from mistake, like John Mara just displayed that he's doing.
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If he is good at his job, it sure didnt reflect on the field.
Eric has said in the past that be doesn't think Chris Mara is a problem and even he realizes it would just be easier to take the title away.
Correlation isn't causation but the timeline is when Mara took over as Sr VP, our team entered the Dark Ages
I actually don't think i'm defending Chris Mara. I'm simply wondering how everyone is so sure he's the mastermind behind all of our losing. I typically try not to make assumptions in life and if I do, I try not to vehemently state them and disallow all opposing views.
The Giants just got rid of the 2 biggest culprits - the guy picking the talent and the guy coaching it. That likely took care of the majority of the problem. The rest we have no idea and area also not even allowing for the possibility of learning from mistake, like John Mara just displayed that he's doing.
Fair enough. I'll admit none of us KNOW what he does...I'd just rather have someone other than an "owner" doing it. Other teams have guys in the same position and have won Super Bowls. Let's try that out.
I admitted it was not the best example. You are choosing to go into detail about it and failing to see the forest for the trees. The forest is roster moves made by Mara in his new job that laid this team low. Not whether or not he got the Vic Cruz signing right. (He didn't anyway). I didn't like it and still feel there has not been as good running in 10 years wo the Bradshaw and Jacobs.