is both absurd and really tiresome. Does someone have any information on what decisions he's made, what player(s) he demanded be signed or drafted? If he has pressured scouts to upgrade or downgrade a player evaluation? We get it, a lot of fans don't like the fact he has a job in the organization. It's not ideal and it may be a distraction. But the constant, carping about what he does or doesn't do is silly, unsubstantiated bushwa. Is Chris Mara responsible for the sorry state of the franchise? Did he make the decision to sign Glenn instead of McCoy? Did he destroy the O-line? If so, let's see the receipts. If, not please give it a rest.
Meanwhile Bradshaw got hurt his first year with the Colts. The same argument you are giving as to why it was smart to move on from Bradhsaw is the one you are using to defend the Cruz extension.
Cruz was an undrafted guy that Eli made a star. His last year was Odells first. No one knows what Bradshaw could have been and no one knew he would have gotten hurt. You could have just drafted another big bruiser back and kept that thunder and lightning combo.
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don't get mad at me for that, you brought it up.
Meanwhile Bradshaw got hurt his first year with the Colts. The same argument you are giving as to why it was smart to move on from Bradhsaw is the one you are using to defend the Cruz extension.
Cruz was an undrafted guy that Eli made a star. His last year was Odells first. No one knows what Bradshaw could have been and no one knew he would have gotten hurt. You could have just drafted another big bruiser back and kept that thunder and lightning combo.
Cruz was a WR with no real real injury history. Bradshaw had constant foot and ankle issues and was a RB. Do I need to go on?
We already knew Bradshaw was injury prone, did you follow the team and his injuries?
However, I get that fans want to clean up whatever ails the Giants from a player personnel perspective. John Mara should as well and make this a very easy decision and have his brother back away here from his role/responsibilities in his SVP capacity.
Chris Mara can still interact with a new GM on his opinions with college players but it can be done in a much more subtle manner than having a formal title and place within the department. The media and fans probably wouldn't like that either but it would kill the story and fans would never know otherwise.
Just like we get stories with John Mara's meddling with things like Eli, Garret or other coaches/players.
Just say'in.
B- he sucks at his job.
B- he sucks at his job.
Yes. It's so simple and obviously true. Not sure why people can't understand this.
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A- doing nothing of real impact, which is a waste of having a SVP of PP role in the organization; OR
B- he sucks at his job.
Yes. It's so simple and obviously true. Not sure why people can't understand this.
I love how there isn’t an option C, personally. And that’s a growing theme on this thread and many others, that things are 100% black or white.
I'm sorry but if you buy this you're pathetic. If you think this is a non story you're fooling yourself.
It does, except for one thing: the franchise isn't struggling. It's making more money than the Mara's ever dreamed of. Since his pocketbook is doing fine John Mara will tolerate his brother. It's easier just to have these sob fests with the media every few years.
The real shame is that Chris Mara watches the guys he worked closely with - Gettlemen and Jusgde - get fired, and he doesn't recognize that he too should be sent packing. Extremely hypocritical of him, and that alone proves he lacks appropriate self-awareness to be successful at anything.
Again, Chris Mara doesn't have to be successful in W/L because the family evaluates the franchise in $$
so for jm to say cm has no authority is absurd
Look at the Titans and 49ers execs we are looking at. They are in the role Chris Mara has and Chris Pettit has, all while under highly successful GMs. We need more than one new voice in there and keeping Chris in that role ad infinitum is a problem. We currently have zero well respected front office types and we are looking at some young personnel guys who are cogs in well run machines. We need more of those, which is why Chris should surrender his title and just keep doing what he's doing.
so for jm to say cm has no authority is absurd
Are you kidding...you don't think they have gone against Chris' recommendations?
You make it seem like they don't even create a board with tiers. They just print off whatever college players Chris has loaded into the database and fly off to the draft.
absurd is the right sentiment...
Who said he is great?
The roster is weak because they have had a weak GM that has a weak roster building plan, weak player evaluation process, and probably has weak people in the front office that report to him.
I'll ask another way. Chris Mara has been SRVP of player personnel since 2011. That will be 3 GMs and 6 HC's in about a month. What other SRVP of player personnel would survive that kind of turnover?
Look at the Titans and 49ers execs we are looking at. They are in the role Chris Mara has and Chris Pettit has, all while under highly successful GMs. We need more than one new voice in there and keeping Chris in that role ad infinitum is a problem. We currently have zero well respected front office types and we are looking at some young personnel guys who are cogs in well run machines. We need more of those, which is why Chris should surrender his title and just keep doing what he's doing.
its as simple as that.
even the position doesn't make sense here. We essentially have 3 director or player personnel guys.
just give Chris some goofy title and move him out of the department. the nephew McConnell might have better experience than Chris! he at least worked for another program and played the game.
Koncz was a DG hire he brought from Carolina.
its ridiculous, why need 3 guys for 1 position and we're still suck at drafting and signing the right free agents.
I'll ask another way. Chris Mara has been SRVP of player personnel since 2011. That will be 3 GMs and 6 HC's in about a month. What other SRVP of player personnel would survive that kind of turnover?
maybe the kind that nobody relies upon for anything, other than his older brother on occasion...
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if cm is such a great talent evaluator why is this roster so weak?
jm said so
Who said he is great?
The roster is weak because they have had a weak GM that has a weak roster building plan, weak player evaluation process, and probably has weak people in the front office that report to him.
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when the owners brother is in the room, do you think anyone is going to contradict whatever he says?
that is not what i said JG, but if you think there is going to be robust discussion contradicting the owners brother I think you are either naive or have never been in those types of meetings
so for jm to say cm has no authority is absurd
Are you kidding...you don't think they have gone against Chris' recommendations?
You make it seem like they don't even create a board with tiers. They just print off whatever college players Chris has loaded into the database and fly off to the draft.
absurd is the right sentiment...
I'm sorry but if you buy this you're pathetic. If you think this is a non story you're fooling yourself.
X2
With that said, you are just making things up that a robust conversation is impossible to have with the Giants and their family members. And directly contradicting what John Mara even publicly said as to who the decision makers are and how differences, if any, are resolved.
I can respond to this nonsense all day long. I have said numerous times my preference would be to remove Chris from that position but not enough to care if they don't.
And until you bring something compelling to a post that Chris matters significantly and matters in a negative way, I will take the high road and continue to suggest that replacing the GM with a competent professional is what really matters here...
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In comment 15550999 UConn4523 said:
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don't get mad at me for that, you brought it up.
Meanwhile Bradshaw got hurt his first year with the Colts. The same argument you are giving as to why it was smart to move on from Bradhsaw is the one you are using to defend the Cruz extension.
Cruz was an undrafted guy that Eli made a star. His last year was Odells first. No one knows what Bradshaw could have been and no one knew he would have gotten hurt. You could have just drafted another big bruiser back and kept that thunder and lightning combo.
Cruz was a WR with no real real injury history. Bradshaw had constant foot and ankle issues and was a RB. Do I need to go on?
We already knew Bradshaw was injury prone, did you follow the team and his injuries?
I don't remember Bradshaw injuries but I don't think Cruz was like this guy who was on the field all the time either.
Ahmad Bradshaw in his highest earning year was 3 mil . Cruz had a 40 million dollar 5 year deal and was pretty much not the same player after signing it. Do you always have to such a smug , condescending douche .
I believe John when he says that Chris/Tim have no direct power/authority to make personnel decisions. I added a key word to that sentence "direct".
Chris and Tim have plenty of indirect influence. They write evaluations that are used as inputs to the draft board. People go to them for "advice" and "opinions" about players. They participate in the draft. Chris participate in interviews. These are things that they do that have been stated outright. I do not believe they are shadow GMs. I do not believe that they pound the table for "their" guy. There is a distinction here, their influence is more subtle, indirect, and potentially insidious than that.
Now put yourself in the position of being a scout and you know Chris and Tim feel a certain way about a player. Maybe you are not so sure, but hey, on paper these guys are your boss, AND they are owners. Will you consider kissing a little ass and agreeing with them when your opinion is on the margin?
How about being the GM. And you know that Chris and Tim filed a bunch of reports about some players. And they have been talking them up. Maybe your opinion is on the margin, or maybe you didn't have time to do a thorough evaluation of the player. And of course Chris and Tim are owners so, yeah they kinda work for you, but they are also kinda your boss. I mean they were in the interview room... It's a good bet they are in the room when the firings are being discussed. So do you decide to kiss a little ass and move the benefit of the doubt towards these guys who may decide your fate.
In both cases, if you are the contrarian, and are wrong, you are going to have a load of dog shit on your shoe.
This kind of influence is indirect and not very obvious. John speaks the truth, but be careful. Truths can deceive. When the GM start adjusting their opinions to make meet the opinions of those who decide his fate, where does it stop. Once on that slippery slope, how far is the slide. Ultimately there is no way to really measure how much influence really exists. Maybe its a little, maybe its a ton. That is what makes this dangerous, and insidious. The fact that John says that they are "well respected" and go to individuals should send up huge red flags that the situation is at the very least leaning into dangerous territory.
All that said. I have stayed out of this discussion because I have no idea what is really going on in people's minds in that building. I don't think there really is a way of ever figuring that out in this situation. I don't think John knows, nor do Chris and Tim. Nobody can accurately measure it.
The mere fact that it keeps coming up as an issue suggests that Eric is correct. Just remove the titles.
Or are you suggesting remove him altogether from the building in every capacity?
Or are you suggesting remove him altogether from the building in every capacity?
Except titles have a different psychological effect on people. Innately we all know this.
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that you mentioned above in the same indirect manner as an owner. So what does that really achieve?
Or are you suggesting remove him altogether from the building in every capacity?
Except titles have a different psychological effect on people. Innately we all know this.
McL - with all due respect, the only ones that may be having any psychological effect with Chris' title are the fans/media.
Everybody in Jints Central knows he is an owner whether he has no title, is SVP of Player Personnel or the Audio/Visual Manager...
Why is there resistance in the building to removing the titles.
Titles mean something.
"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."
Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.
If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??
"Well...the CFO is part of the family, so he doesn't really do anything. He just looks at some numbers and makes suggestions. Really well respected though. "
"Ah..ceremonial title? Ok let's talk to his deputy, the one who's really in charge."
"Well...he's actually part of the family too. He also doesn't really do anything. He's really really well respected though"
"OK, we need to talk to someone from finance. Who is in charge?"
"Well...we kind of just do things together. Like someone has an idea and then we talk about it some. There no real way to say that someone is "in charge" so to speak... Did I mention that a lot of our team is really well respected?"
Why is there resistance in the building to removing the titles.
Titles mean something.
My guess is it means something to Chris...
"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."
Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.
If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??
I think you are missing the point. Those responsibilities in the Giants system are covered by the GM's office...
I am bit obsessed. Chris is all I think about these days...
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didn't do anything?
"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."
Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.
If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??
I think you are missing the point. Those responsibilities in the Giants system are covered by the GM's office...
Sure. Because in "the Giants system" a key executive role is filled by an empty suit. Wouldn't it be better to use "every other team's system" and fil an important executive role with a competent executive?
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In comment 15554114 Jerry in_DC said:
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didn't do anything?
"Oh he just watches some film and suggests a few plays to the coach."
Sr VP of Player Personnel is a real job. People who have that job are supposed to add value to the organization. They have responsibilities- the hire staff, they coordinate scouting, they lay out the processes for evaluation.
If the best case scenario is that Mara doesn't do that much...that's still terrible. If he doesn't do it, then who does all the things that he's supposed to do??
I think you are missing the point. Those responsibilities in the Giants system are covered by the GM's office...
Sure. Because in "the Giants system" a key executive role is filled by an empty suit. Wouldn't it be better to use "every other team's system" and fil an important executive role with a competent executive?
Huh? If those job responsibilities are someone else’s in the NYG system what does it matter?
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, this is 10 years of suckage with only one constant. Owners, glad they admitted it, they are the hot seat until it is fixed, if we are sitting with double digit losses after next season, this is going to look like a fucking picnic.
No more excuses, plenty of other things to spend my time and money on. we were a clown show this year, the other teams and their fans are mocking us openly.