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Talking Giants-Justin Penik on Joe Judge: "Another...

Red Right Hand : 1/12/2022 11:25 pm
"... head coach that is sacrifice on John Mara's road to self discovery about what is needed to be right".

Good episode tonight on how the Giants set Judge up to fail, (including by never giving him his own coordinator).
Judge isn’t gone because of the losing  
Mike from Ohio : 1/13/2022 12:04 am : link
He is gone for being classless and gutless while losing.
Great podcast  
dancing blue bear : 1/13/2022 12:56 am : link
I really like skinners take on judge (and most things) Big blue banter is another one that is can't miss.

Falato generally has very fair and level headed takes. Dan can get hysterical at times, but they have a good balance and great football insight.

These guys spend the time grinding through the tape to reach educated opinions. It would behoove many fans to educate themselves through various outlets. It might raise the level of discourse up in this piece.
RE: Great podcast  
Bill in UT : 1/13/2022 12:58 am : link
In comment 15550529 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:

Falato generally has very fair and level headed takes. Dan can get hysterical at times, but they have a good balance and great football insight.



The poor guy is really named Falato? That sucks
RE: RE: Great podcast  
dancing blue bear : 1/13/2022 1:10 am : link
In comment 15550531 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15550529 dancing blue bear said:


Quote:



Falato generally has very fair and level headed takes. Dan can get hysterical at times, but they have a good balance and great football insight.





The poor guy is really named Falato? That sucks


could be worse with a few more vowels. haha. have you listed, tho? They will be doing tons of draft stuff, breaking down tape etc. Throw it on while your chef-fing it up.
kinda like the way penik  
Red Right Hand : 1/13/2022 2:12 am : link
breaks down the GM prospects, kinda like his partner Finally-got-a-haircut-man worked his way through the Olinemen during the season.
Joe Judge is no victim  
GMen72 : 1/13/2022 2:58 am : link
Was it an ideal situation? No. Gettleman shares the blame, no doubt.

Terrible clock management,terrible use of timeouts, 11 minute rant, mud wrestling, ultra conservative gameplan, bend and break defense, embarrassing coaching moves...that's on Joe Judge.

He was the wrong guy for the job. You could give him the Tampa roster and he'd still blow it.
The players acquired  
TrueBlue56 : 1/13/2022 3:30 am : link
either through the draft or free agency were all brought in with judges approval. Judge signed off on golladay, Jackson and rudolph specifically. The drafts had a lot of players with SEC ties. The special team players acquired was all Joe judge.
RE: RE: Great podcast  
Optimus-NY : 1/13/2022 4:37 am : link
In comment 15550531 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15550529 dancing blue bear said:


Quote:



Falato generally has very fair and level headed takes. Dan can get hysterical at times, but they have a good balance and great football insight.





The poor guy is really named Falato? That sucks


Pun intended about "that sucks", or no?
I'm thrilled Judge is gone  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/13/2022 6:01 am : link
but I agree with the point about him being given an oc. What qualifications does John Mara have to be hand picking coordinators? He just can't seem to help himself from meddling in football decisions. The past few days show me we might be moving in the right direction but we'll see
RE: The players acquired  
ZogZerg : 1/13/2022 6:45 am : link
In comment 15550545 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
either through the draft or free agency were all brought in with judges approval. Judge signed off on golladay, Jackson and rudolph specifically. The drafts had a lot of players with SEC ties. The special team players acquired was all Joe judge.


+1

He also picked all of his coaches, except the OC.
Sure, the Giants tried to help with the OC and that probably didn't help Judge, but even if they didn't Judge was going to fail. His "Defense wins championships" mindset is about 40 years too old. He was never going to be successful with the way he was trying to win.
sorry not buying. he had plenty of input to the mess  
Victor in CT : 1/13/2022 7:11 am : link
but the biggest thing is that he lost his composure. He showed that the job is too big for him over the last month+ of the season.
Judge had zero chance to win  
Jerry in_DC : 1/13/2022 7:14 am : link
with a Gettleman assembled team. But he did have a chance to look A LOT better while losing.
RE: The players acquired  
bw in dc : 1/13/2022 7:16 am : link
In comment 15550545 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
either through the draft or free agency were all brought in with judges approval. Judge signed off on golladay, Jackson and rudolph specifically. The drafts had a lot of players with SEC ties. The special team players acquired was all Joe judge.


Such a smart post.

The martyrdom of Judge seems underway for some fans.
RE: Judge isn’t gone because of the losing  
bluewave : 1/13/2022 7:27 am : link
In comment 15550516 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He is gone for being classless and gutless while losing.


If you are talking about the 11 minute rant and the victory formation plays you are completely wrong. If Joe Judge had this team going 10-7 no one would give a shit about those talking points. He's out of here because the football team was consistently non-competitive!
RE: Judge isn’t gone because of the losing  
Beer Man : 1/13/2022 7:30 am : link
In comment 15550516 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He is gone for being classless and gutless while losing.
True, but to the bigger point - 3-GMs and 4-HCs in six years; is the team addressing the real problem?
No defending Judge  
aka dbrny : 1/13/2022 7:34 am : link
but the number one problem for the Giants is they couldn't score touchdowns, so the OC decision really did matter a lot.

Would he have made a more effective choice at OC? We'll never know.

I do agree with all the comments about game management. Several moments where he (and Daniel Jones) just seem to be a few ticks of the clock slower in making decisions than what is demanded in the NFL.
should have said  
aka dbrny : 1/13/2022 7:37 am : link
a few ticks of the clock slower in properly reading the situation and making sharp decisions ...
The giants got worse after Garret was fired  
mattlawson : 1/13/2022 7:41 am : link
Scapegoated by a desperate coach trying to save his ass. Judge could not step in and right any of his football wrongs. To me that’s a CEO who doesn’t have the ability to effectively manage. Wasn’t working. Alienated coaches and coordinators. I believe the locker room leaks that his act was getting tired.

That qb sneak routine was the final straw.
Judge is absolutely  
section125 : 1/13/2022 7:50 am : link
gone because of his record. After two years they never got better. The last 10 games he looked clueless as to what to do. It is a win now league. If he wins 8 games this year, he is still there.
Oh and if he was bullied into taking an OC and players he did not want, then he was not prepared to be a NFL HC. I don't believe that he and DG did not work well together, nor do I believe he did not get the players he wanted.

He is smart. He will be picked up somewhere, probably college first as a position coach. Would not be surprised, though, to see him back in New England after next season.
RE: The players acquired  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2022 7:51 am : link
In comment 15550545 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
either through the draft or free agency were all brought in with judges approval. Judge signed off on golladay, Jackson and rudolph specifically. The drafts had a lot of players with SEC ties. The special team players acquired was all Joe judge.


Not that I disagree with this post but just drafting players from the SEC I'd an indicator of what? Everybody drafts players from.the SEC because that's where some of the best talent comes from. You don't have to be Joe Judge for that. Giants have been drafting Alabama players for years.
Judge signing off on the acquisition of some of the free agents  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2022 8:03 am : link
this past year is peanuts compared with if he signed off on:

1) Jones being his QB with no new competition brought in
2) Losing Zeitler and not putting any new credible investment into the OL

The injuries that occurred with the WRs and notably LB Martinez still hurt but the two items above were basically coach killers...


This doesn’t have to be a black and white debate  
mfsd : 1/13/2022 8:06 am : link
Judge was set up to fail in his first two years by Gettleman and the front office’s epic failures. He cost himself the job bc of the terrible way he handled adversity and losing down the stretch this season

Plenty of blame to go around for this mess
RE: This doesn’t have to be a black and white debate  
Capt. Don : 1/13/2022 8:12 am : link
In comment 15550643 mfsd said:
Quote:
Judge was set up to fail in his first two years by Gettleman and the front office’s epic failures. He cost himself the job bc of the terrible way he handled adversity and losing down the stretch this season

Plenty of blame to go around for this mess


Exactly. Gettleman was terrible, Mara was terrible but Judge had a 3rd year coming 3 weeks ago - and then he talked himself out of it.

Frankly, giving him a 3rd year would have likely delayed the inevitable.
Judge got a bad hand and then played it badly  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 8:13 am : link
..
RE: Judge is absolutely  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2022 8:18 am : link
In comment 15550623 section125 said:
Quote:
gone because of his record. After two years they never got better. The last 10 games he looked clueless as to what to do. It is a win now league. If he wins 8 games this year, he is still there.
Oh and if he was bullied into taking an OC and players he did not want, then he was not prepared to be a NFL HC. I don't believe that he and DG did not work well together, nor do I believe he did not get the players he wanted.

He is smart. He will be picked up somewhere, probably college first as a position coach. Would not be surprised, though, to see him back in New England after next season.


Judge lost his job in the last few weeks because both he and the offense imploded in concert.

If he had shut his mouth and put a few offensive plays into the mix to keep the losses reasonably competitive, he would probably still have the job.
Gettleman handed JJ a flawed roster.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/13/2022 8:20 am : link
But JJ definitely-from all indications-had a hand in some personnel moves this past offseason that backfired. Throw in his in game coaching & his out to lunch comments...he had to go.
RE: Judge isn’t gone because of the losing  
mphbullet36 : 1/13/2022 8:22 am : link
In comment 15550516 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He is gone for being classless and gutless while losing.


This!

If it was just about the losing he would have been gone Monday morning. I think Mara wanted to give him more time even with his trash record but it's making the Giants a laughing stock and throwing other coaches and organizations under the bus that did him in.

Judge did this all to himself. If he just lost but wasn't a total dummy about it he would probably still be here.
RE: RE: Judge isn’t gone because of the losing  
Mike from Ohio : 1/13/2022 8:28 am : link
In comment 15550594 bluewave said:
Quote:
In comment 15550516 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


He is gone for being classless and gutless while losing.



If you are talking about the 11 minute rant and the victory formation plays you are completely wrong. If Joe Judge had this team going 10-7 no one would give a shit about those talking points. He's out of here because the football team was consistently non-competitive!


You didn't understand what you read. I said he was fired for being classless and gutless WHILE losing. Of course if they were 12-5 he would still be here.

Had he not taken shots at former Giants coaches and other teams, or tried to win at the end he would still be here bad record and all. He was the one who created those problems all by himself.
RE: RE: Judge isn’t gone because of the losing  
Mike from Ohio : 1/13/2022 8:30 am : link
In comment 15550603 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 15550516 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


He is gone for being classless and gutless while losing.

True, but to the bigger point - 3-GMs and 4-HCs in six years; is the team addressing the real problem?


Hopefully bringing in a GM from outside the organization who is not married to trying run the ball in a league designed for the passing game will help.
RE: RE: Judge is absolutely  
section125 : 1/13/2022 8:32 am : link
In comment 15550654 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Judge lost his job in the last few weeks because both he and the offense imploded in concert.

If he had shut his mouth and put a few offensive plays into the mix to keep the losses reasonably competitive, he would probably still have the job.


IDK Googs. It seems the GM candidates said they would not interview with Judge still there. Did the last three weeks make this happen or would it have been still a requirement?

Yes the offense completed imploded once Jones went down, not that it was any good anyway.

Meh, perhaps it was best he had the meltdown so it left Mara/Tisch no alternative.
I had high hopes, but in my view JJ is gone because ...  
Spider56 : 1/13/2022 8:34 am : link
1. He hired long time friends (Graham & Kitchens) who have had little success in the pros...
2. He hired a lot of college guys who had no experience at the pro level.
3. He was a victim of his own ego thinking he could coach guys up to a higher level ... and this failed miserably
4. He is a poor talent evaluator.
5. He is a lousy game manager.

RE: Joe Judge is no victim  
HomerJones45 : 1/13/2022 8:38 am : link
In comment 15550541 GMen72 said:
Quote:
Was it an ideal situation? No. Gettleman shares the blame, no doubt.

Terrible clock management,terrible use of timeouts, 11 minute rant, mud wrestling, ultra conservative gameplan, bend and break defense, embarrassing coaching moves...that's on Joe Judge.

He was the wrong guy for the job. You could give him the Tampa roster and he'd still blow it.
Thank you. Add the guy was walking around with a head as big as a haystack even though he had never accomplished a fucking thing anywhere, substituted windy speeches for ideas and effort, and couldn't get along with anyone that wasn't part of his Cornpone Clan. Yeah, Gettleman stunk, that is not an excuse for him to in effect, throw a tantrum and try and show everyone up. Good riddance.
RE: RE: RE: Judge is absolutely  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2022 8:39 am : link
In comment 15550677 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550654 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



Judge lost his job in the last few weeks because both he and the offense imploded in concert.

If he had shut his mouth and put a few offensive plays into the mix to keep the losses reasonably competitive, he would probably still have the job.



IDK Googs. It seems the GM candidates said they would not interview with Judge still there. Did the last three weeks make this happen or would it have been still a requirement?

Yes the offense completed imploded once Jones went down, not that it was any good anyway.

Meh, perhaps it was best he had the meltdown so it left Mara/Tisch no alternative.


Section - Not certain the the first piece is really truthful reporting as to GM candidates. But if it was, then it was due to the way Judge spoke/coached the team the last few weeks AND everybody was watching, including those candidates.

I was actually okay with a new GM making the assessment but have come around with your same thoughts in the last part that leaving the owners no alternative is probably best.

later...prayers for a good new GM
Oh shut up Penik  
Ben in Tampa : 1/13/2022 8:48 am : link
there is blame EVERYWHERE in the Giants organization. The two people who can be fired, were fired.

Gettleman put together a terrible roster. But there are a lot of terrible rosters in the NFL and the Giants are the only team who lost by double digits six weeks in a row.
You coach up  
Joe Beckwith : 1/13/2022 12:09 pm : link
To ‘what the player does best’, fit the best players to the scheme or create a scheme that fits the players, even if they’re 3rd stringers.
He and his staff did NONE of that with the O.
You should be able to score 7 points offensively in a O leaning league.
Grahams D left something to be desired.
Special teams: yeh😏.
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