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Diehl: Our problems predate Judge, Gettleman, Jones

Big Blue '56 : 1/13/2022 9:50 am
Quote:


“Nobody’s been talking about the root of the problem. Everybody’s just continued to say, ‘It’s bad drafting. Bad coaching. It’s injuries. It’s this. It’s that.’ This, for me, goes all the way back to the end of the 2015 season, where they only fired Tom Coughlin and they didn’t fire Jerry Reese with him. Since that point, nothing has been in alignment with one another. Because then after you fire coach Coughlin, you bring in Ben McAdoo. Ben McAdoo and Jerry Reese are together. That doesn’t work out.


Now you go to Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman. Pat Shurmur doesn’t work out. But then you keep Dave Gettleman again. Then you bring in another head coach. That does not work in the NFL. The head coach and the GM have to be on the same page, they have to come in together, or they have to have that community-building and that accountability to one another that when the ship goes down, I’m not going to be pointing at you because I have another year left on my contract. Or you’re not going to be pointing at me as the coach, saying ‘Well, I don’t have enough players.’

“When it comes to Daniel Jones, I don’t know why Giants fans are going crazy because just by bringing him back doesn’t mean he has to be your starting quarterback. You have all the leverage in the world in this operation. We know with those top draft picks, the Giants need to utilize those on the offensive line and on the defensive side of the ball as well. ...

If I was the Giants general manager, I would bring in a veteran quarterback to compete for that job. That would not only help develop Daniel Jones but would bring out the best in Daniel Jones and say to Daniel Jones, ‘The opportunity to start is right in front of you, but you’re going to have to earn it.’”

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RE: Wait  
christian : 1/13/2022 10:54 am : link
In comment 15550978 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
At the minimum Getts/Shurm was in that both came in fresh and Getts picked Shurm, no?


Exactly. Diehl brushes over that fact, I suspect because that synchronization he claims is the answer, actually happened.

Like I posted above, I suspect he skips over that, because those two built their plan around Eli Manning. And of course that was really stupid.
Doc is back  
Arnie D. : 1/13/2022 10:54 am : link
in the house! We need a diagnosis!
RE: RE: .  
GiantsFan84 : 1/13/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15550895 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15550865 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's very possible the Giants do exactly what Diehl suggests.

That scenario ends up with Jones leaving the Giants for nothing after 2022.



And if Daniel Jones is "Blaine Gabbert" as you suggest, they're not getting better than a 5th or 6th rounder for him anyway. At that point he holds more value to them as a 1 year placeholder for them in a competition with some other veteran or rookie.

I'm open-minded about this. If the new regime likes Corral or Pickett. Go do it. If they would rather use this opportunity of extra picks to build out more of the roster and let Jones and say, a guy like Trubisky fight it out for a year, that's fine too.

The point is Jones is no longer a long term consideration here barring some kind of light bulb going on in year 4.

I have a hunch Jones is going to have issues getting back on a football field anywhere due to his neck.


the expected return compensation is simply not true. look what the eagles got for wentz and what the jets got for darnold. jones should fetch something similar
and so Accorsi handed off Coughlin to Reese  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/13/2022 10:57 am : link
and they weren't in alignment, were they, they only had two Super Bowls come out of it


This alignment crap is horse puckies - bad decisions are bad decisions - it has nothing to do with alignment

To add to that  
Daniel in MI : 1/13/2022 10:57 am : link
The coach and GM will not be 100% aligned and in agreement. The coach is always win now, and the GM is supposed to think longer term, right? The coach is gonna want the shiny toy now, and the GM needs to look at where we’ll have holes in 2-3 years, too. (right now, you can just point to almost any position and find a hole.)
RE: and so Accorsi handed off Coughlin to Reese  
christian : 1/13/2022 10:58 am : link
In comment 15551006 gidiefor said:
Quote:
and they weren't in alignment, were they, they only had two Super Bowls come out of it


This alignment crap is horse puckies - bad decisions are bad decisions - it has nothing to do with alignment


The earth stopped spinning their for a moment, because I think we agree!
Missed you BB'56  
Optimus-NY : 1/13/2022 11:00 am : link
BBI is better with you :-)

Hope all is well!
This is what Mara said yesterday, they had to let  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/13/2022 11:04 am : link
Judge go for the entire 'reset' the team needs. Judge may be a good coach, but you can't count on him being on the same page as the GM. So, unfair to Judge but it is what it is.
I've seen enough of Jones...  
bw in dc : 1/13/2022 11:06 am : link
It's been nearly three years of starting football games. The sample size is adequate.

Even with less-than-ideal circumstances, where are the special plays/skills to give anyone hope that this guy is the solution? In an honest moment, we all know that they are limited. And not enough to continue to roll him out there, cross our fingers, and hope he finally shows something.

Go watch Josh Allen his first two years in Buffalo. He struggled to hit the broad side of a barn. But for crissakes, the talent just jumped off the screen - the laser throws, the elusiveness, the running ability, etc.

Here's hoping a new GM/HC duo don't take too long to make this assessment so we can end this torture.

I’ve said this  
Joe Beckwith : 1/13/2022 11:07 am : link
several times before, and the fact that ownership over involvement is a given, that when it was apparent after 2009, the last REAL attempt at evolve the OL with Beatty( judge that as you wish), and watching a fading Diehl, injured Snee, and the slow down of McKenzie, but reaching for a Brewer, Petrus, et al, to try to fill the spots, then the poor OL draft picks in 13 because Eli was getting killed the last 10 games of ‘12, and the continuing failure to protect the QB has led to the team’s primary failure.
I think  
Daniel in MI : 1/13/2022 11:07 am : link
Alignment could be an issue, but really the misses on GM and draft choices and coaches are bigger.

Each new coach will have his system. Yes, it should adjust to personnel, but overall they’re hired to implement their vision. But the players they inherit may not be a fit. (Pioli talked about BB going to Cleveland where Hugh Douglas tried, but was just not a 2-gap DE.) And roster turnover takes a few years. By changing every two years you end up with both a coach never getting the guys in place, and a mosh mash of guys for different systems.

They need a GM they believe in. Hire a coach you believe in. Give him the actual time to Fing get it together. We have to be ok with progress, not playoffs next year. It’s not going to get instantly better, and if it seems to it may be a flash and revert a bit. But let the guy play it out to get his system and guys in place because each cycle change restarts that clock.
.  
Danny Kanell : 1/13/2022 11:10 am : link
Welcome back, bud. Glad to see you back in the game.

RE: Here's a thought  
ron mexico : 1/13/2022 11:18 am : link
In comment 15550979 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If QB competition is the aim, we could sign both Trubisky and Mariota (combined $5.5M in 2021) for less than what Jones would be owed ($8M) in 2022. Both Mariota and Trubisky signed somewhere in 2021 where they had no chance of being the starter, so for them this would be a step up.

Sign both, tell them they're fighting for the starting job. Trade Jones, get a pick. We've improved the QB depth chart, saved a little cap space, and gotten a pick.

Bringing Jones back only makes sense of you're considering keeping him beyond 2022, and no incoming GM is going to want to do that unless we rehire Gettleman.


trading Jones will only save 4 mil. The other 4 is signing bonus we that would be accelerated in a trade. But I doubt that changes your calculus much.

Have to admit, you do make a decent point here.
Good to see you back, '56  
Mike from Ohio : 1/13/2022 11:20 am : link
Hope all is well.
Completely Agree with Diehl  
ZogZerg : 1/13/2022 11:21 am : link
.
Jones feels like Kerry Collins after 2003  
Sean : 1/13/2022 11:24 am : link
New GM/HC have no attachment. I’d expect either a QB drafted or veteran signed. Jones traded for whatever you can get. Giants drafted Eli and signed Warner after 2003.
Welcome back Dr. Bruce!  
Joe in CT : 1/13/2022 11:31 am : link
Hope all is well. Yep, alignment is key on many levels. Looks like JM has finally got that figured out and now we hopefully move forward to some respectability again, baby steps of course.
Glad you're back BB56. You were missed.  
Blue21 : 1/13/2022 11:32 am : link
It's been ugly around here as you probably know and glad you're back posting.
Welcome back  
Keaton028 : 1/13/2022 11:38 am : link
BB’56!
It goes back even further than what Diehl is talking about...  
Milton : 1/13/2022 11:40 am : link
But they still managed to go to five Super Bowls and win four of them.

Accorsi didn't want Fassel in 1997. It was George Young's last year before retiring and he hired Fassel over Accorsi's choice, Nick Saban (I'm 90% sure it was Saban, but I could be mixing him up with someone else). It was seven years before Fassel finally gave Accorsi enough justification to fire him (most of which was bullshit and hypocritical on Accorsi's part), but then Accorsi was saddled with Coughlin. I can't say for certain that Accorsi wasn't particularly fond of Coughlin, but reading between the lines, that was my impression. As for Fassel, Accorsi came right out and said he wasn't his preferred choice.
It doesn't hurt to bring Jones back for 22  
Walker Gillette : 1/13/2022 11:40 am : link
Sign a veteran QB and let them compete, if he beats Jones out so be it, if Jones takes beats him out, great. A new coach and GM aren't going to have any allegiance to Jones, they're going to want to play the guy that gives them the best chance to win and to politely disagree with some on here he still does have upside and has shown some ability to make things happen on the field. Mitch Trubisky has no upside and has never shown the ability to do anything despite what his defense fueled record shows. I think we can all agree that Daniel Jones taking a step and playing well for the Giants next year would be a fantastic development!
RE: RE: .  
rsjem1979 : 1/13/2022 11:51 am : link
In comment 15550874 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 15550865 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's very possible the Giants do exactly what Diehl suggests.

That scenario ends up with Jones leaving the Giants for nothing after 2022.



we could get a comp pick

either way, I think jones is more valuable as a lottery ticket or back up than what we could get in return. (unless some team wants to throw a couple 2s at us)


That's not how comp picks work.
Welcome Back BB56  
Thegratefulhead : 1/13/2022 11:53 am : link
Hope you have been well. You are all class.
Agreed with bring in a veteran to compete with Jones  
Payasdaddy : 1/13/2022 12:07 pm : link
Obviously, no 5th yr option for DJ
If for some reason things click for him, great.
I do think he still has some upside but probably not enough to be a long term solution
He competes hard, has athletic ability and can make some nice throws
Decision making / progressions still iffy though
Even though he doesn’t really elevate team, playing with garbage half the time never helped his cause
Welcome Back BB  
STLGiant : 1/13/2022 12:31 pm : link
:-)
Welcome!!  
aka dbrny : 1/13/2022 1:42 pm : link
You've been missed.
RE: You're back!  
aka dbrny : 1/13/2022 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15550830 Chris684 said:
Quote:
I know why you leave, but I wish there were more reasonable people like you around during the shitstorms.

This is a welcome sight as always.


What Chris said!
Not that what David Deihl is saying is wrong but  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2022 1:51 pm : link
it isn't the root problem. The root problem is the poor decision-making on college and pro personnel for this team.

Find better quality evaluators of talent and the team will improve...
 
christian : 1/13/2022 1:59 pm : link
I think the good football teams have three pillars:

1) Good talent 2) Good architecture 3) Good coaching

Coaching is the most straightforward.

Architecture has been a big problem here for a while. Allocation, timing, vision etc. This has to be the primary focus of the GM.

Talent is where I’m worried. The coach and the GM have to be able to trust the recommendations from the pro and college evaluators.
It’s been  
Les in TO : 1/13/2022 2:16 pm : link
A decade of bad drafting, bad injury luck, bad free agent signing and bad picks for head coach. I’m hopeful the new GM will thoroughly review everyone involved in pro and college scouting and personnel and weed out people who are underperforming. And that the GM will hire a coach aligned with his vision, with the Maras only intervening if there was a massive character red flag. And the new coach will hopefully thoroughly review strength, conditioning, wellness, medical teams to evaluate why we are disproportionately impacted by injuries.
Diehl is right  
Matt in SGS : 1/13/2022 2:38 pm : link
but it goes back further than that, and I've said it on BBI before. The Giants spent the better part of the last 10 years trying half measures to put just enough around Eli to try to squeeze out another title. Honestly, one of the worst things that came from the 2011 championship was the thought that you only need to be just good enough to make the playoffs and then let Eli take over.

If you remember back in 2002, the Giants had a good OL coach in Jim McNally. McNalley took a group of FA OL, like Seubert, Bober, etc and molded them into a strong line to get a playoff push. The Giants basically felt he could turn any dogcrap into a player and that led us to the Ian Allens and Jeff Roehl's as it fell apart in 2003. Sometimes they over estimate the ability of someone to lift a group, whether it's a player or coach.

What set in motion the mess to come was the Giants inability to see the core of the team Accorsi built that won in 2007 and squeezed out 2011, was done by 2012. They got blown out by Atlanta and Baltimore in back to back games. That should have been the signal to rebuild and try to win again in a year or so with Eli at the tail end of his prime.

But MetLife hosted the Super Bowl in 2013. No one hosted the Super Bowl and played in it before. The Giants wanted that. Reese put up that dumb Super Bowl count down clock. They re-upped their vets on their last legs and crashed at 0-6. That team should have been 4-12, but they had a stretch of playing 3rd string QBs and finished 7-9. More false hope going into 2014. That team went from 3-2 to 3-9. But, Odell burst on to the scene. More false hope, they rightly decided to focus on OL, but the players didn't play up to where they should (Flowers, Richburg, Pugh). That was realistically a 4-12 team that beat bad teams late and finished 6-10.

That leads into the period that Diehl is talking about in sweeping out both Coughlin and Reese. And he's right. Once that happens, it sets up these 2 year bursts of decisions, placing blame on front office or coaches. And the x-factor of the org trying to build around Eli when he was gassed at the end (which is why Saquon was taken at #2). If nothing else, the twitter explosion 2 weeks ago unearthed all the inside politics and finger pointing that we all suspected.

Judge's only way to survive was for 2021 to be a winning/competitive season. They spent that cap money to give him the tools to win. The plan was to transition to Abrams and Pettit. Gettleman was in the background all year, remember how Abrams and Pettit handled the pre-draft pressers? That's why Judge wanted Abrams as GM. That was his only lifeline to stay as head coach. No GM on the outside was going to come in here with him as coach.

In the long run, the cratering of the end of this season, in my mind, is best thing to happen to this organization since 2011. The Young era ended in 1997. The Accorsi era ended in 2006. The Reese era really ended in 2012. After that was stop and go mess with generally good intentions but bad execution and eventually they could no longer function. To paraphrase the term from Vietnam, you needed to destroy the village to save it. Get the right person in here and we can finally start a new era after 10 years of trash.
HEY BB56  
steve in maryland : 1/13/2022 2:38 pm : link
Nice to see you. Hope you are well.
Matt in SGS  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 2:46 pm : link
Great post, Matt.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2022 2:49 pm : link
.
great post matt only 2 minor quibbles  
Eric on Li : 1/13/2022 3:14 pm : link
1. the 2007 and 2011 rosters weren't just EA's rosters. Not trying to take credit from him, but Reese's ascent and Coughlin's hiring markedly improved the drafts in '04-'11 relative to the Fassell/EA era. Eli and Snee were obviously cornerstones. The '05 draft with just 4 picks was historic - Webster, Tuck, Jacobs - completely made up for the lost picks via Eli trade. The '07 draft was obviously massively influential in SB42, but the '08-'10 drafts were just as big for SB46 (Nicks, Phillips, JPP, Joseph).

2. You can't write a recap of the orgs downfall without mentioning Marc Ross. The '04-'10 Coughlin/Reese/EA group morphed into the '11-'17 disasters that wasted Eli's back half career under Marc Ross's leadership ascent. No tea leaves needed to know whose voice got louder in those years - the title bumps, press conferences, and 3 piece suits made it clear.

In the history of what went wrong this decade there are others who may bear more blame indirectly since they were in position to recognize the problem and didn't, but nobody is more directly responsible.
 
christian : 1/13/2022 3:14 pm : link
Matt, that’s a good post. But if Diehl’s solution is a GM and coach starting at the same time with a shared vision — this happened in 2017.

The slate was clean and those two just made terrible choices.

The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.
RE: …  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15551698 christian said:
Quote:
The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.


Yup. This is why to me the moment that will always symbolize this era is the Barkley pick. Even Darnold would have been a better pick, as if we had done that we might be sitting here with Herbert today.

The Barkley pick, in that moment, was one of my worst moments as a Giant fan. It was such a terrible sign.
Bravo, Matt  
Greg from LI : 1/13/2022 3:20 pm : link
100% agreement
RE: …  
bigbluehoya : 1/13/2022 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15551698 christian said:
Quote:
Matt, that’s a good post. But if Diehl’s solution is a GM and coach starting at the same time with a shared vision — this happened in 2017.

The slate was clean and those two just made terrible choices.

The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.


was it really a shared vision?

it was two guys who accepted the pre-condition of hire -- Eli Manning is definitely the Starting QB.

Make me your best dish, anything you like. You have a $30 budget, and by the way $15 of it has already been spent on a steak that I cooked last week. Also that steak is in the fridge and it has to be the only protein in the meal.

I guess I could say that you and your sous chef have a shared vision as long as you follow my rules.
RE: …  
Greg from LI : 1/13/2022 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15551698 christian said:
Quote:
The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.


ELI REVENGE TOUR 2018!!!!
So the wasted 4/5 prime Eli years 2013-2017 were what then?  
Eric on Li : 1/13/2022 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15551698 christian said:
Quote:
Matt, that’s a good post. But if Diehl’s solution is a GM and coach starting at the same time with a shared vision — this happened in 2017.

The slate was clean and those two just made terrible choices.

The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.


If they weren't the cardinal sin were they the original sin?
RE: …  
Matt in SGS : 1/13/2022 3:56 pm : link
In comment 15551698 christian said:
Quote:
Matt, that’s a good post. But if Diehl’s solution is a GM and coach starting at the same time with a shared vision — this happened in 2017.

The slate was clean and those two just made terrible choices.

The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.


Shumur was the "adult". He was the guy before the guy, IMO. They were trying to re-stabilize around Eli and get a professional back at HC. Again, a half measure. Do what you could to try to coax the last bit out of Eli and see if they could find the next QB.

The question I still have to this day, if you remember back in 2019, Gettleman met with Eli after the season. Gettleman said "Eli took me to the low post and won". What did they talk about? Did Eli tell them that this was going to be his last season in 2019? Did Eli say that he wanted better players around him or he wasn't coming back? Whatever it was, the Giants got very interested in getting the next QB in here. We know they wanted Herbert. But Herbert stayed. But they kept going and fell "Full bloom in love" with Jones. We don't need to go through all of that after. We all know the story. But it just fit right back within the Giants mode of half measures, not thought out. They were reactive and reached for a QB. The guy they really wanted happened to be there the next year. Missed opportunity.
RE: he's wrong about 1 thing - the problem predates 2015  
Jay on the Island : 1/13/2022 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15550881 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
in 2013 Marc Ross was promoted to VP of player evaluation. I believe in the period around the 2nd SB when Ross started getting GM interviews Jerry Reese mistakenly allowed Ross far more autonomy than he deserved.

100% correct. Reese was a solid GM in the draft until Marc Ross came aboard. Ross had a poor drafting record in Buffalo but the Giants hired him anyway which was the main reason for Reese's downfall.

Marc Ross was not only a very bad talent evaluator but he also refused to take any of the blame for the sorry state of the franchise. There were also rumors that Ross was not a hard worker who didn't put in the necessary hours.

I remember Ross appearance on the NFL network right before the start of Gettleman's first season. Ross was criticizing Gettleman for the lack of talent on the roster. This still blows my mind that this guy lacks the basic awareness that he was one of the architects of this teams roster. Mike Florio from NBC ripped Ross for his lack of accountability while trying to pin the blame on the new FO.

In the past I wondered if Ross would still be here had he hired a competent director of college scouting instead of Marc Ross.
RE: Here's a thought  
Jay on the Island : 1/13/2022 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15550979 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If QB competition is the aim, we could sign both Trubisky and Mariota (combined $5.5M in 2021) for less than what Jones would be owed ($8M) in 2022. Both Mariota and Trubisky signed somewhere in 2021 where they had no chance of being the starter, so for them this would be a step up.

Sign both, tell them they're fighting for the starting job. Trade Jones, get a pick. We've improved the QB depth chart, saved a little cap space, and gotten a pick.

Bringing Jones back only makes sense of you're considering keeping him beyond 2022, and no incoming GM is going to want to do that unless we rehire Gettleman.

That's a fine idea but I doubt Trubisky signs for that little again. He clearly took less money to sign with the Bills because it gave him a chance to go to the SB.

Even if the Giants keep Jones I hope that they try to sign either of those two. If the Giants did draft Malik Willis I would still be in support of signing either of those two or Andy Dalton to compete with Jones for the starting job. The loser would be the primary backup allowing Willis to sit for his entire rookie season.
 
christian : 1/13/2022 4:23 pm : link
I’m sure for many reasons (arrogance, incompetence, age, focus, injuries) — the very crisp management and coaching we saw during the championship years waned from 2013 - 2015.

The Giants should have cleaned house — coaching and management — after the 2015 season. Manning was still young enough and good enough to build around. I buy that. I agree with Diehl that keeping Reese was sloppy and was a mishmash approach.

But Diehl conveniently glosses over the Giants did clean sweep after 2017. New GM, new coach, big roster turnover, big infusion of dollars.

That should have been the new dawn — instead they dragged out the Gettleman corpse and the Manning corpse and re-enacted Weekend at Bernie’s.
RE: RE: …  
.McL. : 1/13/2022 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15551711 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15551698 christian said:


Quote:


The cardinal sin of the last decade was the idiotic hope that Eli Manning would return to form and solve all problems.



Yup. This is why to me the moment that will always symbolize this era is the Barkley pick. Even Darnold would have been a better pick, as if we had done that we might be sitting here with Herbert today.

The Barkley pick, in that moment, was one of my worst moments as a Giant fan. It was such a terrible sign.

GT , I am on the same page with you here.

The reason that the Barkley pick was the worst pick in my time as a fan (a little more than 50 years), was that it signified a front office that didn't know what they were doing. It was the foreshadowing of the horrible 4 years to come. I felt it in my bones as soon as it happened. It was such a bad decision, that you just knew it would be followed with more bad decision making. That is why it was the worst. It has nothing to do with the player himself (who by the way was never a player I thought of very highly even before that draft).
Man oh man  
The Jake : 1/13/2022 4:43 pm : link
reading Matt in SGS's post was like reliving a traumatic fucking experience.

he is so right and that SUCKED as a fan to watch them bungle through all of those mistakes.

I hope every Mara shill on this board reads Matt's post.
He's got the year right  
montanagiant : 1/13/2022 5:13 pm : link
But you have to include the horrid drafts of 2014, 2015, and 2016. Three straight years of some of the worse drafts the Giants have ever had
RE: He's got the year right  
christian : 1/13/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15551922 montanagiant said:
Quote:
But you have to include the horrid drafts of 2014, 2015, and 2016. Three straight years of some of the worse drafts the Giants have ever had


In retrospect are those drafts really horrid?

- 2014 produced 3 multi-year starters in Beckham, Richburg, and Kennard
- 2015 produced 2 multi-year starters in Flowers and Collins, and a journeyman in Heart
- 2016 produced 2 multi-year starters in Goodson and Shepard, and a journeyman in Apple

I often wonder if the Giants had better coaching during that time if those drafts would have looked better.
no disagreement with most of this  
Eric on Li : 1/13/2022 5:55 pm : link
In comment 15551867 christian said:
Quote:
I’m sure for many reasons (arrogance, incompetence, age, focus, injuries) — the very crisp management and coaching we saw during the championship years waned from 2013 - 2015.

The Giants should have cleaned house — coaching and management — after the 2015 season. Manning was still young enough and good enough to build around. I buy that. I agree with Diehl that keeping Reese was sloppy and was a mishmash approach.

But Diehl conveniently glosses over the Giants did clean sweep after 2017. New GM, new coach, big roster turnover, big infusion of dollars.

That should have been the new dawn — instead they dragged out the Gettleman corpse and the Manning corpse and re-enacted Weekend at Bernie’s.


the point i'm trying to make is that many are incorrectly labeling 2015 or 2017 or 2018 or 2020 the earthquake when they were aftershocks.

the earthquake was the terrible drafting 2011+ on the backside of Eli's career, best embodied by the OL falling apart - which I personally attribute to Jerry Reese's empowerment of his hand picked protege Marc Ross.

Eli had his best year in 2012 but crappy rosters triggered the team's downward trend in 13, 14, 15 - leading to coaching change #1. Where Diehl is right is that not only was that a chance to start fresh but also a chance to contain fall out - which did not get contained so damage continued.

McAdoo, the 2016 FA splurge, and the Apple/Engram drafts were fallout directly attributable to keeping Reese/Ross.

So while you're right that there was a full reset for coaching change #3 in 2018 by that point the situation was more contaminated than chernobyl. And with Eli at the end it was probably not the most appealing place for newcomers to walk into having to be the ones that put down old yeller. I give the Kevin Colbert a lot of credit because he's probably stepping down at least in part due to the fact that it's a logical transition point for someone new to get the chance to pick their guy.
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