article on Giants Nepotism.
Talking about being hired with Giants years ago, his dream job. Mara and Tisch families are good people.
Last 6 years have been crappy- all deserve blame.
Talking about Chris Mara and Tim McConnell. Weis says those two are the two best people in that organization. Says Chris Mara isn't GM only because of his name! They don't want their family being viewed that way.
Weis hired Tim MCConnell who Weis said he was one of the most valuable guys at the University (ND) and was kept on after Weis left. Mara's have a rule you can't start working with Giants you must go elsewhere first.
Papa and Weis (BBI was just mentioned specifically by Papa) and Papa is sick of arguing with people about Chris Mara. The league has offered him jobs elsewhere but doesn't because he is an owner of this team. Weis again talks about how Chris Mara is one of the BEST there is but fans think they know more than they do.
Again, if Chris is as good as Weis and Papa say - and that there is this big market for him, but the ownership piece gets in the way - than his brother is making a huge mistake keeping such a talented evaluator out of the GM chair.
So, I'd be okay with Chris as the GM to prove once and for all if Chris is really this good.
Its been stated by several talking heads that Tisch has vetoed this move.
I know, and I get it.
Look, when the ship has been slowly sinking for a decade, it's fair to ask who is doing what inside the organization and question their roles. The fact John, and his shills like Papa and Weiss, get so bent out of shape for asking reasonable questions is very strange to me.
Other teams in the league want to hire a co-owner of Giants to help build their football team? Near as I can tell, the last time that was even mentioned was in 2008, when Arthur Blank interviewed Mara for the Atlanta Falcons job based on the recommendation of, you guessed it, Ernie Accorsi.
Presumably, this was a favor by Accorsi after he chose Jerry Reese as his successor with the Giants.
Was he ever a legitimate candidate? Who can say, because he pulled his name from consideration early in the process.
That's how I see it too. Whichever it is, there's really no positive way to spin it. We're stuck with his semi-involvement (horses being more important to him) and can only hope that the Giants hire a strong GM that everyone allows to do his thing.
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In comment 15550899 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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that Chris Mara and Tim McDonald contribute information and opinions to the decision-making process, but that the GM and the HC make the final decisions. This place has become filled with myths based on limited to no information. A couple of these guys are being maligned without any specific facts other than the overall failures of the organiztion.
That doesn't entirely exonerate Chris, as he's actively contributing evaluations of players, presumably many are being drafted by the decision makers (or missed) due to his/their scouting work.
We have no idea whether his advice is followed or not. This place has made him evil based on projection, not facts.
Your first point is not compelling, and we do not entirely disagree on the second. I don't find it wise to gloss over his impact given the talent acquisition has been awful since he was elevated. Ross was elevated afterwards and has since left, but still the talent they're assembling is poor. Responsibility should begin with Chris Mara ...
Is that the takeaway? Because that totally makes sense.
Also Chris doesn't really do anything. But he's great at his job and everybody totally respects him. But he chooses to keep a low profile because....but he totally could be an awesome GM that would restore the Giants to competence...but again, he doesn't have any power or authority despite being in charge of player personnel....
That’s the only thing that matters.
Do they report to the SVP of player personnel?
Just because the Giants have been bad does not mean that they are the biggest problem. Sure it can be perceived that way but there are a lot of things that are contributing to the Giants issues. I’m kind of with them on this. I truly can’t say that they are good or bad at there jobs. They could suck or be actually pretty good. The thing is it is easy to point fingers at them based upon the titles they hold and their connections to the organization.
To be honest I’m kind of tired of all the negativity and am ready to have a positive outlook on this team going forward. Sure it has been crap lately but it doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. Let’s go Giants!
Papa playing with strawmen again. No one is saying that Chris Mara, and his nephew are the MAIN problem, but that heir titles are PART of the problem.
They.
Are.
Unfireable.
THAT is a problem.
Papa- believes the Coach and GM going is the right move. Weis agrees as well, clean slate.
Weis- this is the third time (third times the charm, right).. Mara has to take his lumps, you are the main guy here. You stand up there and take the lumps- wanted to be patient but couldn't.
Papa- interesting how this unfolds, must be diligent and make smart choice BUT, you don't have the luxury of months. Lots of guys interviewing elsewhere and need to make a decision soon.
Weis believes they will have a GM next week.
Plenty of good HC'ing candidates out there. Weis talking about how the hiring last time went quickly, looking was a bit but interview to hire of Judge was fast.
Weis believes as long as there are no character issues with HC recommendation from new GM, he should get hired.
Papa- with putting staff together the two Coordinators are huge OC and DC but the next biggest one is the Oline coach. Papa feels he is almost as important as the OC. Need a really good Oline coach and it is an art. The established ones have their own ways but they are so very important.
Strength Coach just as important with the needs of the team for such a long season and less hitting. QB coach also a huge need, someone to keep working with the QB. Weis points out he used to do it and then McDaniels after him. Gotta have that guy in the QB's ear after each series even if it isn't just X's and O's.. Don't let your QB dwell or mope after a series.
Papa- very important decisions coming here. Need to develop staffs that can withstand losses and be ready to have coaches who can move up when you lose a coach.
These guys have run this organization into the ground. Including both Maras and McDonnell, all 3 rightfully having a say in what goes on.
Spare me with the "best in the business/we don't know" crap.
Good for him - he's done a hell of job in gathering key people.
If any of the owners are slandered on BBI it's Steve Tisch because he's a movie producer but the Tisch family philanthropy is his families legacy and has never been mentioned here that I've seen. A lot of people who post here don't even know what Loews Corp is.
This is a football website. We are football fans. Specifically fans of the New York Giants. The only thing I'm concerned about or commenting about when it comes to the Mara and Tisch families is whether their football team is winning. IMO we are all well within our rights as customers, who watch their games, buy their gear, paid large sums of money to buy tickets, to hold the owners who provide the product accountable when the product is a laughing stock.
Charlie Weis owes his entire career and everything he has in life to the Mara family. I can't take anything he says about them as an objective opinion.
What were Tim McDonnell's qualifications to be hired at Notre Dame? Who did he replace? Or did Charlie create a job for him because his mother owns the Giants?
And if he's reading this F Bob Papa. Another guy who owes everything he has to the Mara family. I don't want to hear employees and ex employees tell me to how to consume my entertainment. I made my Giant bones in the upper deck of freezing cold Yankee Stadium when being a fan of the Giants was actually important to the Mara's wallets.
I read the article I linked today and thought it was brave to write it. I'm sure Baghdad PitBull Pat is all over Politi about now and the Giants are going to try to make his life covering them as difficult as they can from this day forward. At least he's a columnist so that might have given him a little more freedom than a beat.
I owe Eric a thanks and a big donation next year. There is no doubt in my mind that BBI has played a part, maybe just a small part, but a part, in bringing the real reason the Giants stink to the surface. Hopefully it helps. Regardless of what anyone else thinks about what I write I'm Giants for life.
Why John Mara’s latest claim about the Giants is hard to believe - ( New Window )
He all but said Chris and Tim just advise on college players from time-to-time. The implication being they aren’t in leadership positions above the scouts or the personnel staff.
Not to be rude, but sounds like they have toy jobs where they watch tape for a hobby.
That’s fine. But the Giants do seem to have amateur and pro personnel problems.
Hopefully the new GM brings in people who do this work professionally.
That means Chris Mara sucks at his job.
Wtf could I be missing?
For anyone to now say that BBI isn't known, followed and even used to gauge fans thoughts and feelings, is pretty obviously incorrect.
As I mentioned before Eric and I had Pat Hanlon on our show a few times and even had Jerry Reese on- set up by Hanlon.. They know BBI!
Papa was sitting behind Junkin on the flight back. Papa didn't know Junkin at all but never felt worse for a player than him (who was sitting by himself)..
If you think I am exaggerating please read this puff-piece from the time:
"Chris Mara helped guide the Giants through the late stages of the NFL draft on Saturday, then scrambled down to Louisville to watch his horse run in the Kentucky Derby—a rare double duty that would have made his father proud..."
The Giants’ Chris Mara pulls NFL draft and Kentucky Derby double duty - Sports Illustrated - ( New Window )
Do you agree with Papa and Weiss that Chris Mara is an excellent personnel manager?
Agree! Many seem to be blindly following misinformation and have pitchforks out for no apparent reason IMO. I still believe the Head Coach and GM made all final decisions with their input.
He all but said Chris and Tim just advise on college players from time-to-time. The implication being they aren’t in leadership positions above the scouts or the personnel staff.
Not to be rude, but sounds like they have toy jobs where they watch tape for a hobby.
That’s fine. But the Giants do seem to have amateur and pro personnel problems.
Hopefully the new GM brings in people who do this work professionally.
christian - not sure hobby is the right word...more like their roles & workproduct may be superfluous and John Mara took the high road and not disparaging them.
I am aligned with rest of these sentiments though.
Since none of us ever played or coached in the league, we should probably just shut down the entire site as we shouldn't be commenting on anything at all, or just limit it to chicken parm recipes and grill reccomendations
If you think I am exaggerating please read this puff-piece from the time:
"Chris Mara helped guide the Giants through the late stages of the NFL draft on Saturday, then scrambled down to Louisville to watch his horse run in the Kentucky Derby—a rare double duty that would have made his father proud..." The Giants’ Chris Mara pulls NFL draft and Kentucky Derby double duty - Sports Illustrated - ( New Window )
after that article, you can see why Chris no longer does interviews.
It's not a conspiracy. People just want to see what they want to see and ignore the facts or evidence.
There's little to no proof that any of the Maras are meddling or overtly and overly influential. Or at least not any more meddling than any other ownership group in the NFL.
They have done an awful job finding the right GM and HC lately. Full stop. We know that. All this other talk of John Mara mimicking this under the bridge big, bad and evil troll that bellows dark and evil orders day after day is just that, talk.
They have failed to build a winner. It doesn't have to be this big bad conspiracy.
And if he's reading this F Bob Papa. Another guy who owes everything he has to the Mara family. I don't want to hear employees and ex employees tell me to how to consume my entertainment.
All the Giants have are "lifers". Bob Papa started doing the pregame show for Giants radio broadcasts two years after he graduated college - in 1988. He's been there for his entire adult life, and is the central figure in every facet of their broadcasting empire. Radio play by play. Giants Chronicles. Coach's Show. Giants Access Blue.
It's perfectly reasonable to question his objectivity when his paychecks are signed by the Mara family.
they can't hire him as GM so the pipeline is now broken.
it makes sense to just make him another position and promote either Mconnell if he's so respected or another person in the scouting team.
Then why are we interviewing 9 other candidates?
Just give Chris Mara the job if is so good.
Do you agree with Weiss that Chris Mara is a highly skilled, best-in-class personnel man?
Is that the takeaway? Because that totally makes sense.
Also Chris doesn't really do anything. But he's great at his job and everybody totally respects him. But he chooses to keep a low profile because....but he totally could be an awesome GM that would restore the Giants to competence...but again, he doesn't have any power or authority despite being in charge of player personnel....
^^^ THIS ^^^
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(Mykkele Thompson in 2015) so that he could get out of the war room in time to make the Kentucky Derby should be our GM?!?
If you think I am exaggerating please read this puff-piece from the time:
"Chris Mara helped guide the Giants through the late stages of the NFL draft on Saturday, then scrambled down to Louisville to watch his horse run in the Kentucky Derby—a rare double duty that would have made his father proud..." The Giants’ Chris Mara pulls NFL draft and Kentucky Derby double duty - Sports Illustrated - ( New Window )
after that article, you can see why Chris no longer does interviews.
ron - yep...
How about getting someone effective?
He all but said Chris and Tim just advise on college players from time-to-time. The implication being they aren’t in leadership positions above the scouts or the personnel staff.
Not to be rude, but sounds like they have toy jobs where they watch tape for a hobby.
That’s fine. But the Giants do seem to have amateur and pro personnel problems.
Hopefully the new GM brings in people who do this work professionally.
So, wouldn't a real SVP of PP be a good idea? Unless Chris Mara is a duplicate of someone else. I can't tell through all the smoke screen
You can't run an organization and expect to be successful when some people are held accountable and others are not.
It's not going to work.
Leaving the NFL Draft to go to the Kentucky Derby means that (1) being Sr. Vice President of Player Personnel for the Giants is not a full time job for him; and (2) being Sr. Vice President of Player Personnel is not a priority for him.
If being Sr. Vice President of Player Personnel for the Giants was his full time job, he would have been in the war room for the full draft. If being Sr. Vice President of Player Personnel was a priority, he wouldn't have chosen the Kentucky Derby over the draft.
If being Sr. Vice President of Player Personnel is not his full time job and is not a priority for him, then he shouldn't do it at all, IMO.
Give the job to someone will give it his or her full time and focus/energy.
but what do i know
Tell me why Chris Petit gets to stay on as director of college scouting again? Tell me what any of those pro personnel guys have done again that is worth keeping them for?
If the new GM comes in and wipes everyone out - I'm a believer...if that upper crust of management stays with direct ties to the owner...it ain't gonna work.
Even Hanlon admitted that scout steve V was doing a terrible job for years but allowed to keep his job
but what do i know
I don't think it's scapegoating as much as pointing to his SVP title in the Personnel department and wondering how much influence he has there? Team personnel has SUCKED for the better part of a decade, yet he's still there. We don't know how much influence he has over picks, trades or FA's, but THAT is the problem.
How can you have an owner whose job title reports to the GM when the GM reports to the owners? Doesn't that sound a little odd? Maybe a conflict of interest?
I just don't understand how people can think it impossible that those who report to Chris Mara and the GM might have more loyalty to Mara. If the GM and Mara agree, it's not a problem, but if they don't?
And yes, there are other teams with owners who have direct say in personnel matters, but guess what? Everyone knows that and knows who to hold responsible. If Jerry Jones and his son fuck up a draft, are fans going to be mad at Will McClay? No, they will take it out on the Jones's. That isn't the case here.
So a guy who is qualified to be a GM, is SVP of Player Personnel, is sitting in on GM interviews (I assume based on his qualifcations), but has no input on the actual decision?
I know he's an owner but he can never be truly evalauted at his position because he has no metrics to live up to. It's like the Bob's from Office Space, "What exactly would you say you do here?"
The other option is that Chris is so qualified, HE should be invovled in the decision making on GM but John and Steve are too stubborn to let him.
The criticism was based on some fans believing they knew more than they did, I ve stopped paying attention. It s become obvious the Giants failure has been due to bad hires, that can be fixed, as it has been in the past
but what do i know
Do you know who the heads of college scouting and pro scouting are and to whom they report?
In most organizations those departments report to someone along the lines of the Senior VP of Player Personnel.