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NFT: Cam Reddish traded to Knicks

DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 11:27 am
Protected 2022 #1 via Charlotte the Hawks, Knicks also get Hill and 2025 2nd from BK
Trade  
31southst : 1/13/2022 11:31 am : link
Knox going the other way as well. I have never understood the Reddish love so can't so I'm a big fan (he cannot shoot).

Seems like a precursor to another move, otherwise too many guys for the rotation.
Knicks just stole Reddish  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 11:31 am : link
..
Knox is gone?  
GMEN46 : 1/13/2022 11:32 am : link
Knox was in deal?
Not a bad deal  
Anakim : 1/13/2022 11:32 am : link
RJ reunited with Reddish.

It would've been a late first rounder anyway. I mean that pick had so many conditions on it.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 11:32 am : link
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
New York is including Kevin Knox in trade to Atlanta, sources tell ESPN.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 11:34 am : link
So Knox and a protected #1 for Reddish, Hill and a 2025 2nd. Both Knox and Reddish are only 22 years old. Deal could work out for either (or both) sides
Interesting they got  
ajr2456 : 1/13/2022 11:34 am : link
The hawks to move off the Knicks pick and take the Hornets pick that may or may not be a first
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15551150 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
So Knox and a protected #1 for Reddish, Hill and a 2025 2nd. Both Knox and Reddish are only 22 years old. Deal could work out for either (or both) sides


Hill is a good defender, Knicks have to release someone, guessing it will be arci
Reddish  
Pete44 : 1/13/2022 11:35 am : link
He needs to stay healthy, but when Young was out and he got to be highlighted, he had some very big games.
Protections:  
guitarguybs12 : 1/13/2022 11:35 am : link
Quote:
The Charlotte first is protected top 18 (2022), top 16 (2023), top 14 (2024) and top 14 (2025). Turns into a 2026 and 2027 second if not conveyed.
Reddish  
31southst : 1/13/2022 11:36 am : link
Given Cam is up for an extension after this season, I wonder if they have something lined up and what it would be for. I'm guessing more than I think he should get, maybe like 4/50. They could always let him get to restricted FA the year after but that would surprise me given they are trading for him.
Poor Greg. Just when he was started to finally like a Dukie  
Anakim : 1/13/2022 11:39 am : link
Another one joins the party.

And yeah, maybe Zion will complete the triumvirate...
another thing  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 11:39 am : link
with Kemba back, who is out of the rotation?
RE: Interesting they got  
Pete44 : 1/13/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15551153 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The hawks to move off the Knicks pick and take the Hornets pick that may or may not be a first



I like this deal a lot, another excellent asset. Reddish can be a really good 3 and D player.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15551155 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15551150 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


So Knox and a protected #1 for Reddish, Hill and a 2025 2nd. Both Knox and Reddish are only 22 years old. Deal could work out for either (or both) sides



Hill is a good defender, Knicks have to release someone, guessing it will be arci


Hill will miss the remainder of the season. He was included to match salaries.
Well this is a bad take from our insider.  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 11:41 am : link
"Don’t buy
ajr2456 : 1/12/2022 11:01 am : link : reply
The Reddish rumors"
RE: another thing  
ajr2456 : 1/13/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15551177 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
with Kemba back, who is out of the rotation?


Expect another move that sends out someone like Burke by the deadline
RE: Well this is a bad take from our insider.  
ajr2456 : 1/13/2022 11:42 am : link
In comment 15551190 JohninSC said:
Quote:
"Don’t buy
ajr2456 : 1/12/2022 11:01 am : link : reply
The Reddish rumors"


At the time the Hawks wanted the Knicks first round pick.
RE: RE: Well this is a bad take from our insider.  
Pete44 : 1/13/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15551194 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15551190 JohninSC said:


Quote:


"Don’t buy
ajr2456 : 1/12/2022 11:01 am : link : reply
The Reddish rumors"


AJR - we appreciate your inside info. Never bad to add another talented asset. I just wonder when they make that deal for a star player.


At the time the Hawks wanted the Knicks first round pick.
Love that for the Knicks  
Jerry in_DC : 1/13/2022 11:44 am : link
Reddish is inconsistent and has some uncertainty, but athletic wings are hard to find so thats a good place to take some swings.

Will be interesting to seen what kind of contract he gets.
2/3 of the duke boys here  
Br00klyn : 1/13/2022 11:44 am : link
only 1 left, lets go Zion!
RE: RE: Well this is a bad take from our insider.  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15551194 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15551190 JohninSC said:


Quote:


"Don’t buy
ajr2456 : 1/12/2022 11:01 am : link : reply
The Reddish rumors"



At the time the Hawks wanted the Knicks first round pick.


I'm just busting your balls. All the inner workings are always fluid and constantly changing. I appreciate any info you provide. I like the trade.
RE: RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 11:46 am : link
In comment 15551187 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15551155 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15551150 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


So Knox and a protected #1 for Reddish, Hill and a 2025 2nd. Both Knox and Reddish are only 22 years old. Deal could work out for either (or both) sides



Hill is a good defender, Knicks have to release someone, guessing it will be arci



Hill will miss the remainder of the season. He was included to match salaries.


ahhh ok
Coincidentally,  
Anakim : 1/13/2022 11:46 am : link
Our next game is in Atlanta against the Hawks...Reddish has some time to pack his shit.
RE: RE: another thing  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 11:47 am : link
In comment 15551192 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15551177 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


with Kemba back, who is out of the rotation?



Expect another move that sends out someone like Burke by the deadline


There has to be, you didnt trade for reddish to sit, and we know thibs loves Grimes
Holy shit.. our Front Office actually did this  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 11:48 am : link
Quote:

Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks and Hawks had talked about a deal for Cam Reddish that sent Quentin Grimes to ATL in recent days but some NYK decision-makers been opposed, per SNY sources. @wojespn reports Knicks and Hawks have Reddish deal in place.


They actually kept Grimes and said, "No, take Kevin Knox instead". This would not have happened pre-Leon Rose.
Great deal for all parties  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 11:48 am : link
1. Knox gets a fresh start. He will evolve into a decent backup.

2. Reddish has tremendous upside. Shooting 90% free throws this year. You shoot that high, you can shoot. Just a matter of translating it to game. But the hand to eye coordination is there

3. It’s also obviously a move to lure Zion. Yes he is fat. Because he is unhappy. We sometimes forget how young these guys are. Your brain is not fully developed until you are 25.

Plays the same postion as Rj and Fournier  
shyster : 1/13/2022 11:48 am : link
Low assists, low rebounds, erratic scoring.

And he'll want to get paid.

There are always teams looking to grab first round picks from teams who want to make a move for the sake of making a move.
RE: Holy shit.. our Front Office actually did this  
ajr2456 : 1/13/2022 11:49 am : link
In comment 15551210 JohninSC said:
Quote:


Quote:



Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Knicks and Hawks had talked about a deal for Cam Reddish that sent Quentin Grimes to ATL in recent days but some NYK decision-makers been opposed, per SNY sources. @wojespn reports Knicks and Hawks have Reddish deal in place.



They actually kept Grimes and said, "No, take Kevin Knox instead". This would not have happened pre-Leon Rose.


Thibs would trade his own child before he trades Grimes lol
Meh. Not a big Reddish fan at all.  
Stu11 : 1/13/2022 11:49 am : link
He's a low % chucker. Sure he's a decent energy scorer off the bench, but we're loaded with those types. That's not our need. No the Charlotte pick isn't great but it was an asset and I would have rather tossed it into a trade for a star or someone of true need.
Cam is a decent player  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 11:50 am : link
Young and still improving.

We have too many wings. Grimes is legit. Burks and Fournier. When we get our PGs back, playing time is tough.

Gotta think one of those is on the move at the deadline.
Thibs is gonna like him - defense highlights from MIL playoff series - ( New Window )
Not bad  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 11:57 am : link

Jonathan Wasserman
@NBADraftWass
· 6m
Knicks essentially turned 2021 draft picks #19, 21 and 32 into Reddish, Grimes, McBride, Jokubaitis
Failed  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 11:57 am : link
physical

Mike Singer
@msinger
·
2m
Breaking: The Bol Bol trade to Detroit is off, league source tells @denverpost
.
/  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 11:59 am : link
No clue what Bol's physical issue is but if Denver wants that Nets 2025 pick I'd flip it in a deal for him
We have a lot of players now...  
Jan in DC : 1/13/2022 11:59 am : link
Another deal has to be coming to consolidate some of these assets. This feels like a precursor deal because in a vacuum it doesn't make sense.

Trading a 1st for a player in a contract year when we have a logjam for playing time already.
Nothing to complain about here, other than the logjam.  
bceagle05 : 1/13/2022 12:03 pm : link
You're replacing a guy who can't play - Knox - with a guy who can. I wonder if Alec Burks' days are numbered. He's one guy who might be able to fetch a late first from a contender.
Yeah I don't have a big problem with what we gave up  
Stu11 : 1/13/2022 12:04 pm : link
If we dealt Grimes instead I would have been furious. He has elite 3 and D potential on the level of a Mikal Bridges type player.
Kind  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 12:05 pm : link
of weird they even contemplated including Grimes. Either they are far higher on Reddish than his numbers would indicate or they are lower on Grimes.
That's great  
NoGainDayne : 1/13/2022 12:06 pm : link
that Charlotte pick was the garbagiest pick I've ever seen traded lol.

Cam has potential. Want to see what Thibs can do with him. We could potentially have a great 3 and D player in him under Thibs.

What do we think this does to Burks minutes though? I have him on my fantasy team
You have to think the Knicks have a good idea who they can  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 12:07 pm : link
and might trade at the deadline. A guy like Burks or Fournier will have value, either as part of a larger package or for draft assets. So, picking up Reddish, who can be a part of the young team you're building and trading Burks for other assets makes pretty decent roster building sense.

And Hunter is already a better 3 and D guy and they have Hueter and Bogdonavic. Atlanta clearly decided that Cam didn't fit what they were doing long term. Makes sense from their side too.
I would've flipped out if they dealt Grimes.  
bceagle05 : 1/13/2022 12:07 pm : link
Nobody's untouchable, but we've needed a lights out shooter in the worst way, AND he's an exceptional perimeter defender. Not to mention six assists the other night against the Spurs.
Grimes is available in a package for a star, IMO  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 12:09 pm : link
that's it and that's how it should be. He's gonna be a 10 year NBA player, from my perspective. Winning player and a guy you keep.
Reddish is shooting 38% from 3  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 12:11 pm : link
ha shad some big games with guys out and had some big games against Mil in playoffs
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/13/2022 12:12 pm : link
Good deal.

Good luck Kevin. We will always have that '18 Summer League.
As an aside it's amazing how bad the Hawks are reeling  
Stu11 : 1/13/2022 12:12 pm : link
17-23. Lost by 25 to Miami last night. Yes they have a bunch of injuries and Covid stuff but who hasn't in the league? They can't even keep their heads above water. We'll see if they can replay their 2nd half circus trick again but they won't have a coaching change to spark them again.
I would assume  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 12:15 pm : link
it was the hawks trying to get grimes
RE: As an aside it's amazing how bad the Hawks are reeling  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15551294 Stu11 said:
Quote:
17-23. Lost by 25 to Miami last night. Yes they have a bunch of injuries and Covid stuff but who hasn't in the league? They can't even keep their heads above water. We'll see if they can replay their 2nd half circus trick again but they won't have a coaching change to spark them again.


There are rumors that Collins wants out and they may blow the team up aside from Capela and young
A dark day in Knicks history  
Greg from LI : 1/13/2022 12:16 pm : link
As  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 12:18 pm : link
of right now the Hornets pick is 20th and thus would be conveyed to the Hawks if the season ended today.
I mean this is basically reddish for free...  
Italianju : 1/13/2022 12:19 pm : link
and you get all of next year before dealing with the QO. He has played pretty well when he gets consistent touches/minutes. He does feel a lot like fournier and burks though so it does feel like a log jam. I was expecting a move like this for a PG due to our injury concerns there.
Wonder if this is the harbinger of another trade?  
TheMick7 : 1/13/2022 12:21 pm : link
Pacers supposedly were in trade talks for Cam & we know the Knicks have interest in Turner. Maybe acquiring Cam sweetens the pot to get him.
About that defense  
shyster : 1/13/2022 12:21 pm : link
Cranjis McBasketball
@Tim_NBA
Cam Reddish's defensive impact percentiles (via D-LEBRON).

His defensive impact this season grades out the worst of any Wing Stopper over the last 8 seasons in our database.



link - ( New Window )
RE: Love that for the Knicks  
Ron Johnson : 1/13/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15551198 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
Reddish is inconsistent and has some uncertainty, but athletic wings are hard to find so thats a good place to take some swings.

Will be interesting to seen what kind of contract he gets.


This.

The Knicks desperately need to get better defensively. Defense is athleticism and desire, and this guy is super athletic.
Zion coming to the Mecca!  
adamg : 1/13/2022 12:21 pm : link
LFG
I don't think the Knicks even wanted the pick to convey this year.  
bceagle05 : 1/13/2022 12:23 pm : link
They have their own and Rokas may come over (though you might as well wait a year til Rose/Kemba are off the books). You'll probably see Burks dealt for a future first to maintain the stash for a bigger trade.
I get the talent. It is obvious.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/13/2022 12:25 pm : link
But Zion scares me long term.
It's about building a young core  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 12:26 pm : link
I was not initially excited about Leon Rose but he has shown an incredible ability to have multiple pathways.

After making playoffs last year, he kept the team together but did not fall into the usual Knicks trap of going all in and sacrificing the future.

Lebron's going from team to team misled many people, including Knicks management, into thinking the way you win is to clear the roster to attract superstars. But Lebron is a unique player. You can't use him as a model.

The way you build a team that competes for a decade is still through developing a core. Look at Golden State. Yes, they got Durant but the core is Steph, Clay and Green. GS also does not have Dolan's money and had to let players like Barnes go because they could not afford to keep them.

It's hard to get a core who are all about the same age but Rose is doing it. They still need a big time player, such as Zion, but as constituted, this current group (RJ, IQ, Grimes, Deuce, Sims, Cam, Mitch) could probably evolve into a team that regularly wins 40-50 games a year.
Burks is a ball handler  
shyster : 1/13/2022 12:27 pm : link
Reddish is not.

With Kemba's knee and Rose's limitations, Knicks can't give Burks away without a ball handler coming back,so that isn't the answer to the logjam.
Got him for free.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2022 12:28 pm : link
But what is he good at?
RE: A dark day in Knicks history  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15551302 Greg from LI said:
Quote:


LOL.

Somehow I think you would be singing a different tune if they had gotten DeAndre Hunter.
RE: Burks is a ball handler  
adamg : 1/13/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15551329 shyster said:
Quote:
Reddish is not.

With Kemba's knee and Rose's limitations, Knicks can't give Burks away without a ball handler coming back,so that isn't the answer to the logjam.


Fournier for turner?
RE: Burks is a ball handler  
Del Shofner : 1/13/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15551329 shyster said:
Quote:
Reddish is not.

With Kemba's knee and Rose's limitations, Knicks can't give Burks away without a ball handler coming back,so that isn't the answer to the logjam.


Right. I don't see where Reddish fits in without another move being made, but not Burks.
Reddish  
five5 : 1/13/2022 12:31 pm : link
and RJ were NOT great friends at Duke. Actually didn’t like each other.
There is definitely more moves coming  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 12:32 pm : link
and have to assume the next deal is for a point, Deal for Reddish is a no brainer for the fact you gave up nothing for a guy who has proven he can score when given consistent minutez..

But is as of right now those minutes really arent there yet
Burks has low key  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 12:32 pm : link
been one of our best and most important players. It's not like he's expiring, so if the only offers out there are one late first round pick, I'm not making that deal.
RE: Reddish  
adamg : 1/13/2022 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15551342 five5 said:
Quote:
and RJ were NOT great friends at Duke. Actually didn’t like each other.


Based on...?
RE: Burks is a ball handler  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15551329 shyster said:
Quote:
Reddish is not.

With Kemba's knee and Rose's limitations, Knicks can't give Burks away without a ball handler coming back,so that isn't the answer to the logjam.


It's not about this year. Burks is completely insignificant. A career backup who will have a few great games and who is in no way a PG.

If they can move Burks for a first, like BC Eagle suggested, they will do it.
RE: RE: A dark day in Knicks history  
Greg from LI : 1/13/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15551335 Vanzetti said:
Quote:


Somehow I think you would be singing a different tune if they had gotten DeAndre Hunter.


Of course I would, because Hunter is a winner and a better player. Only concern with him is staying healthy.

Reddish sucks, flat out sucks.
RE: Got him for free.  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15551332 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
But what is he good at?

it's a good question. He's been better this year compared to his first two years - but what does it say that the Hawks were unwilling to commit to him beyond his rookie contract?
RE: RE: Got him for free.  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15551357 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15551332 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


But what is he good at?


it's a good question. He's been better this year compared to his first two years - but what does it say that the Hawks were unwilling to commit to him beyond his rookie contract?


I dint think they wanted to pay him, huerter, bkgdanavjc, gallo, and hunter
Knicks have the 11th best record in the conference  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 12:41 pm : link
Only 4 teams have a worse record.

Rose is not making moves based primarily on this year. He realizes this team might not even make the playoffs, and even if they do, they won't go far.

His eye is on the future. So, you guys who are saying they can't or won't trade Burks are completely wrong. Rose won't give him away but if he gets good value, Burks, just like all the other vets, will be gone in a second.
They’ve made inquiries this week  
ajr2456 : 1/13/2022 12:42 pm : link
On Fox
RE: RE: Burks is a ball handler  
shyster : 1/13/2022 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15551336 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15551329 shyster said:


Quote:


Reddish is not.

With Kemba's knee and Rose's limitations, Knicks can't give Burks away without a ball handler coming back,so that isn't the answer to the logjam.



Fournier for turner?


Pacers are going to want picks,not a guy approaching 30.

Knicks just gave Fournier a market value FA contract; they won't get much for him in a trade.
RE: RE: RE: Burks is a ball handler  
adamg : 1/13/2022 12:44 pm : link
In comment 15551384 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 15551336 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15551329 shyster said:


Quote:


Reddish is not.

With Kemba's knee and Rose's limitations, Knicks can't give Burks away without a ball handler coming back,so that isn't the answer to the logjam.



Fournier for turner?



Pacers are going to want picks,not a guy approaching 30.

Knicks just gave Fournier a market value FA contract; they won't get much for him in a trade.


I know that. I mean as salary filler and to open up a rotation spot.
RE: They’ve made inquiries this week  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15551381 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
On Fox


I made mentioned of this a couple if weeks ago people in front office pushing for it and working back channels to get him to put pressure on the Kings
RE: They’ve made inquiries this week  
adamg : 1/13/2022 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15551381 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
On Fox


Is Fox really that good? His efficiency numbers really give me concerns.
RE: They’ve made inquiries this week  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15551381 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
On Fox

if that were to happen, it would almost have to include either Fournier (or Randle) based on Fox's contract.
RE: RE: Got him for free.  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15551357 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15551332 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


But what is he good at?


it's a good question. He's been better this year compared to his first two years - but what does it say that the Hawks were unwilling to commit to him beyond his rookie contract?


Hawks can't afford him. They are already at 113 million for 2023-4 season and they still have to sign De'Andre Hunter. They struggle to draw fans. Their arena is a mausoleum, located in a not very safe area of downtown. You have to drive to get there for most fans and the traffic is murder.

They have money now that Ressler owns the team but Hawks are still never going to be a team that goes way over the cap for a sustained period unless its for Lebron or Durant or someone of that ilk.
I flip flopped and now I do not want Fox.  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 1:01 pm : link
Something about his game I just don't like.
RE: RE: They’ve made inquiries this week  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 1:03 pm : link
In comment 15551403 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15551381 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


On Fox


if that were to happen, it would almost have to include either Fournier (or Randle) based on Fox's contract.


Probably Randle.
RJ  
five5 : 1/13/2022 1:03 pm : link
And Reddish dislike is per Marc Berman and others.
RE: Kind  
81_Great_Dane : 1/13/2022 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15551270 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
of weird they even contemplated including Grimes. Either they are far higher on Reddish than his numbers would indicate or they are lower on Grimes.
I don't think we can conclude that they contemplated including Grimes. We know Atlanta wanted him; taking that call and making a "Take Knox instead" counter-offer isn't the same as contemplating trading him.
RE: I flip flopped and now I do not want Fox.  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 1:05 pm : link
In comment 15551428 JohninSC said:
Quote:
Something about his game I just don't like.


Like Marbury, Stevie Francis or Westbrook, he is a great individual talent but does not make his team better.

That said, he is still young and can learn.
I dont think Rose is stupid  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 1:06 pm : link
i am sure they talked to Rj about Reddish, especially if they have been talking for a couple of weeks
RE: RE: Kind  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15551435 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 15551270 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


of weird they even contemplated including Grimes. Either they are far higher on Reddish than his numbers would indicate or they are lower on Grimes.

I don't think we can conclude that they contemplated including Grimes. We know Atlanta wanted him; taking that call and making a "Take Knox instead" counter-offer isn't the same as contemplating trading him.


Begley's report sure reads like it was a discussion and not one sided.

"but some decision-makers were opposed to parting with him."
RE: As  
steve in ky : 1/13/2022 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15551305 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
of right now the Hornets pick is 20th and thus would be conveyed to the Hawks if the season ended today.


Per ESPN:

Charlotte's first-round pick is protected through the top 18 in 2022, the top 16 in 2023, the top 14 in 2024 and the top 14 in 2025. It becomes two second-round picks if not conveyed before 2026.
The Hawks were not getting a first and Grimes for Reddish  
Vanzetti : 1/13/2022 1:18 pm : link
That would be a huge overpay. Knox and a first is fair value for both sides.
I like Fox  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 1:26 pm : link
but i am not giving away every asset for him, Rj and Randle would not be in that deal..

I am not giving up 3 or 4 1sts for him..

I think he is a good player and can definitely make this team a lot better but he doesnt make them a contender by any means
RE: RE: RE: Kind  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15551460 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15551435 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


In comment 15551270 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


of weird they even contemplated including Grimes. Either they are far higher on Reddish than his numbers would indicate or they are lower on Grimes.

I don't think we can conclude that they contemplated including Grimes. We know Atlanta wanted him; taking that call and making a "Take Knox instead" counter-offer isn't the same as contemplating trading him.



Begley's report sure reads like it was a discussion and not one sided.

"but some decision-makers were opposed to parting with him."


i wonder if that was earlier in the year and as Grimes got more minutes they said hell no
RE: RE: As  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15551462 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 15551305 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


of right now the Hornets pick is 20th and thus would be conveyed to the Hawks if the season ended today.



Per ESPN:

Charlotte's first-round pick is protected through the top 18 in 2022, the top 16 in 2023, the top 14 in 2024 and the top 14 in 2025. It becomes two second-round picks if not conveyed before 2026.


Top 18 protected means the Hawks would get the pick as the Hornets currently pick 20th.
Fox is a very good player  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 1:36 pm : link
He's not a great shooter but the rest of his game is very good. And his timeline fits the rest of our team. He's less than a year older than Sims, Obi and Mitch.

The thing is the contract is high (28M), you'd have to basically trade Kemba and Fournier or maybe Kemba, Obi and Burks to make it work salary wise. And I think the Knicks want to preserve a bunch of their trade assets for bigger game hunting. Fox is a really good player but he's not a max level star.
I like this  
jpkmets : 1/13/2022 1:48 pm : link
Essentially Reddish for free and see what Thibs can coax from him.
Harper  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 2:00 pm : link
gives the Knicks side an A- and basically views it as the "20th" pick in 2022 vs. Reddish and his still potentially untapped upside.
RE: RE: RE: Kind  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15551460 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15551435 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


In comment 15551270 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


of weird they even contemplated including Grimes. Either they are far higher on Reddish than his numbers would indicate or they are lower on Grimes.

I don't think we can conclude that they contemplated including Grimes. We know Atlanta wanted him; taking that call and making a "Take Knox instead" counter-offer isn't the same as contemplating trading him.



Begley's report sure reads like it was a discussion and not one sided.

"but some decision-makers were opposed to parting with him."


Begely was on with Macri said Hawks wanted Grimes but Knicks said no
I’m iffy on trading for Fox  
ajr2456 : 1/13/2022 2:05 pm : link
But who has Sacramento had for him to really make better? A lot of guys with effort issues or that just aren’t very good
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 2:08 pm : link
Zach Harper
@talkhoops
·
2m
Love this move for the Knicks. Cam Reddish Hive continues to roll
RE: RE: RE: RE: Kind  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15551542 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15551460 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 15551435 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


In comment 15551270 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


of weird they even contemplated including Grimes. Either they are far higher on Reddish than his numbers would indicate or they are lower on Grimes.

I don't think we can conclude that they contemplated including Grimes. We know Atlanta wanted him; taking that call and making a "Take Knox instead" counter-offer isn't the same as contemplating trading him.



Begley's report sure reads like it was a discussion and not one sided.

"but some decision-makers were opposed to parting with him."



Begely was on with Macri said Hawks wanted Grimes but Knicks said no


Both things can be true (especially considering Begley was the one who reported that some members of the FO were against it)
Fred  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 2:21 pm : link
Katz suggested Obi, Burks and a pick (the one they just traded but the article came out earlier in the morning) and Noel for Jerami Grant
Well I gotta admit  
ghost718 : 1/13/2022 2:35 pm : link
I like this one.

Barrett,Toppin and Reddish is enough to get excited about.
RE: Fred  
Heisenberg : 1/13/2022 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15551580 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Katz suggested Obi, Burks and a pick (the one they just traded but the article came out earlier in the morning) and Noel for Jerami Grant


Can't have Obi, Randle and Grant. Logjam, so that makes sense. Still not sure of the fit for Grant. Can he guard 3s? Ideally, you want someone who can play with Randle at crunch time. Not sure Grant is it.
RE: Poor Greg. Just when he was started to finally like a Dukie  
djm : 1/13/2022 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15551175 Anakim said:
Quote:
Another one joins the party.

And yeah, maybe Zion will complete the triumvirate...


haha yep--full disclosure I am all in on Zion. Fat ass and all. I am hopeful the Knicks/Zion union is an inevitability at this point. He'd kick ass in MSG. Shaq light.
RE: RE: Poor Greg. Just when he was started to finally like a Dukie  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15551671 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15551175 Anakim said:


Quote:


Another one joins the party.

And yeah, maybe Zion will complete the triumvirate...



haha yep--full disclosure I am all in on Zion. Fat ass and all. I am hopeful the Knicks/Zion union is an inevitability at this point. He'd kick ass in MSG. Shaq light.


I qm not the biggest Zion fan but you would think playing with Rj he would grt his ass in shape
im a jerami grant fan (cuse fan)....  
Italianju : 1/13/2022 3:07 pm : link
but i dont think id do that. Grant is a good role player on a good team, but thats it. I dont think its worth giving up a young improving player a good rotational player and a first for him. Id much rather pay what id guess is around a similar cost for Wood. At least Wood can play the stretch 5 role.

I don't know much  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 3:09 pm : link
about Grant. Any chance he can function for stretches as a small ball center?

if zion has to move cities and play with his friends...  
Italianju : 1/13/2022 3:10 pm : link
to get in shape then i think people should be very worried about him. Look the fact he has been in the league for a couple years and cant get his weight under control is a massive red flag. His body didnt really make sense to begin with, haha, and he isnt doing it any favors.

That said, I fully expect him to get his head on straight at some point, there is just too much at stake for him. But who knows.
Zion is an insanely talented player  
djm : 1/13/2022 3:11 pm : link
and he's virtually fulfilled or displayed that promise when he plays. This isn't potential we're talking about as much as it's just a super talented kid who may not like his current team.

Yea he has some concerns but Zion being scooped up by the Knicks would remind me of the Lakers stepping in shit 235 times over the last 4 decades.

RE: I don't know much  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15551683 Enzo said:
Quote:
about Grant. Any chance he can function for stretches as a small ball center?


Katz says yes.

Well, in this hypothetical, they could go small with Randle and Grant, who has played some backup five in his life, though rarely in Detroit. His most recent stretch there came just before his thumb injury when Kelly Olynyk was hurt and Isaiah Stewart was suspended. It could work in short spurts. He’s not a great rebounder, but he is a decent shot blocker, particularly when coming over to help.

The Thunder used him as a backup five for much of the 2017-18 season, before he had developed his jumper. He took opposing centers off the dribble and propped up his efficiency with an impressive free-throw rate.
Zion's talent  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 3:22 pm : link
is undeniable and he's only 21 - but the red flags are everywhere with this guy. A questionable work ethic and durablity concerns are not exactly the recipe for success. And his next contract is likey going to be anywhere from $200-$250 million.
See: Embiid  
PhilSimms15 : 1/13/2022 3:28 pm : link
Guy also had a ton of injuries early in his career but is not (relatively) healthy and is a dominant player. Zion probably is more talented. If you are going to take a risk, take a risk on an insanely gifted player.
RE: See: Embiid  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15551731 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Guy also had a ton of injuries early in his career but is not (relatively) healthy and is a dominant player. Zion probably is more talented. If you are going to take a risk, take a risk on an insanely gifted player.


Zion is nowhere near the offensive player Embiid is..
RE: See: Embiid  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 3:41 pm : link
In comment 15551731 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Guy also had a ton of injuries early in his career but is not (relatively) healthy and is a dominant player. Zion probably is more talented. If you are going to take a risk, take a risk on an insanely gifted player.

there's also a precedent for players who are the same size/shape as Embiid. Zion is basically an outlier who's carrying a significant weight on a relatiely smaller frame. He should probably be playing offensive line. in the NFL.
Reddish could be a star with Thibs coaching  
dpinzow : 1/13/2022 3:46 pm : link
The potential is definitely there, he showed it in the playoffs vs Milwaukee. If he doesn’t work out it’s not that big a loss but if he does the Knicks got an absolute steal
on what earth is zion more talented then Embiid?  
Italianju : 1/13/2022 3:51 pm : link
is zion a more athletic freak then Embiid, sure. Does that make his ceiling higher, sure i guess, but more talented? No way.

I mean look id sign up for zion in a second and convince myself he will get in shape and his body will hold up and all that. But come on we are the knicks, at best he plays 70 games his first year, dominates and then gets hurt in the first round. LOL.
Made inquires on Fox  
Carl in CT : 1/13/2022 3:59 pm : link
NOT THIS WEEK but pre Kemba it started. Don’t throw out crap.
RE: RE: See: Embiid  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/13/2022 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15551763 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15551731 PhilSimms15 said:


Quote:


Guy also had a ton of injuries early in his career but is not (relatively) healthy and is a dominant player. Zion probably is more talented. If you are going to take a risk, take a risk on an insanely gifted player.


there's also a precedent for players who are the same size/shape as Embiid. Zion is basically an outlier who's carrying a significant weight on a relatiely smaller frame. He should probably be playing offensive line. in the NFL.

Zion does have the body type of that kid from George Mason from forever ago.
Hmmm  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 4:26 pm : link
Quote:

NBA Trade Report
@NBATradeReport
#Sources — Knicks have fielded offers on Mitchell Robinson, Evan Fournier & Alec Burks. #NBA
3:21 PM · Jan 13, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
I'm a Mason Alum  
elpeces : 1/13/2022 4:45 pm : link
That final four run was amazing. Jai Lewis is who you are referring to. Pretty sure he was at the Giants camp to try out at TE in 06.
RE: Hmmm  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 4:58 pm : link
In comment 15551869 JohninSC said:
Quote:


Quote:



NBA Trade Report
@NBATradeReport
#Sources — Knicks have fielded offers on Mitchell Robinson, Evan Fournier & Alec Burks. #NBA
3:21 PM · Jan 13, 2022·Twitter for iPhone



The feed you linked only has 3,032 followers and scrolling through I haven't seen a single story they "broke".
watch Knox light us up  
Del Shofner : 1/13/2022 5:01 pm : link
on Saturday night, lol
should we be surprised this isnt announced yet?  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 5:08 pm : link
..
RE: I'm a Mason Alum  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/13/2022 5:13 pm : link
In comment 15551896 elpeces said:
Quote:
That final four run was amazing. Jai Lewis is who you are referring to. Pretty sure he was at the Giants camp to try out at TE in 06.

Yep, Jai Lewis is who I was thinking of.
Hollinger  
DanMetroMan : 1/13/2022 5:14 pm : link
on the trade. Essentially the same view as many of us
Link - ( New Window )
It seems like Zion has wanted to be in NY since day 1  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2022 8:47 pm : link
Let's have fun with it and just say he's tanking to get traded. Harden got fat just to get out of Houston.
RE: It seems like Zion has wanted to be in NY since day 1  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15552184 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Let's have fun with it and just say he's tanking to get traded. Harden got fat just to get out of Houston.


we need a reddish and Rj to post a picture on instagram with thr caption "something is missing"
RE: It seems like Zion has wanted to be in NY since day 1  
Enzo : 1/13/2022 9:01 pm : link
In comment 15552184 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Let's have fun with it and just say he's tanking to get traded. Harden got fat just to get out of Houston.

I thought there was a chance he could be the first star player (under this era's CBA rules) to turn down a max extension and play out his rookie contract and get to unrestricted free agency. But given his injuries, if the Pelicans are offering him anywhere near the max when he's extension eligible, he pretty much has to take it.
Bucks crushing GSW  
Del Shofner : 1/13/2022 9:19 pm : link
.
Reddish plays the same position as RJ and also doesn't strike me as  
Jim in Hoboken : 1/13/2022 9:23 pm : link
then kind of player Thibs likes, so we will see. I guess we will see what kind of playing time he gets, but I almost would rather have the 20th pick in next year's draft.
RE: Reddish plays the same position as RJ and also doesn't strike me as  
Del Shofner : 1/13/2022 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15552219 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
then kind of player Thibs likes, so we will see. I guess we will see what kind of playing time he gets, but I almost would rather have the 20th pick in next year's draft.


Jim - I see it that way too but Rose is no dummy and neither is Thibs. We'll see what the plan is. Hard to imagine there isn't another trade lurking.

As to draft choices - can only have so many rookies/young players. We still have a lot of draft capital.
The NBA now is positionless  
nygiants16 : 1/13/2022 9:37 pm : link
Rj is a wing, juat like Reddish is, they can play together, like Fournier and Rj play together...Rj is more of a 2/3, Reddish is a 3/4..

As for fit with Thibs, Rose is not trading a first for a player Thibs wont play and Reddish is actually a good defender
A day later, and I like this move  
Heisenberg : 1/14/2022 8:19 am : link
There's really big questions about his game - shot selection, team defense especially. We know Thibs CAN help him with that. What I wonder is if he'll have the patience to play Reddish the minutes he'll need to improve. Hopefully having RJ on the team - who is a Thibs guy and a leader in terms of effort on both ends - can help Cam adjust to the team.

There's tantalizing upside and a wide range of outcomes. Can he hit the Paul George comps or maybe a Khris Middleton? Will he just be a better version of Reggie Bullock? Or maybe he'll stay what he is, which is inconsistent and disappointing. The Knicks have a couple years to figure out which direction he'll go. Anyways, I like the gamble.
RE: A day later, and I like this move  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 8:24 am : link
In comment 15552473 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
There's really big questions about his game - shot selection, team defense especially. We know Thibs CAN help him with that. What I wonder is if he'll have the patience to play Reddish the minutes he'll need to improve. Hopefully having RJ on the team - who is a Thibs guy and a leader in terms of effort on both ends - can help Cam adjust to the team.

There's tantalizing upside and a wide range of outcomes. Can he hit the Paul George comps or maybe a Khris Middleton? Will he just be a better version of Reggie Bullock? Or maybe he'll stay what he is, which is inconsistent and disappointing. The Knicks have a couple years to figure out which direction he'll go. Anyways, I like the gamble.


You have to think Rose consulted Thibs before this move and you dont give up a 1st albeit protected for a player you dont plan on playing..
I liked reddish coming out  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 8:28 am : link
the question with him right now is can he play a team game, he is obviously at his best when he gets touches and minutes but can he be effective playing off other scorers..

When Trae young has been out he averages 20 and with young only 10..When he starts and gets minutes his scoring numbers go up..

.  
Del Shofner : 1/14/2022 8:32 am : link
In comment 15552236 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Rj is more of a 2/3, Reddish is a 3/4..


I can't see taking minutes from Obi, though, he doesn't get enough as is.
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 8:38 am : link
In comment 15552489 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 15552236 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Rj is more of a 2/3, Reddish is a 3/4..




I can't see taking minutes from Obi, though, he doesn't get enough as is.


Hate to break it to you, i dont think Obi is going to be here for much longer..

and even if Obi is you can easily play reddish and Rj together, they are interchangeable jist like the other wings on this team
I think through the first year and a half with the Knicks  
Mike in NJ : 1/14/2022 8:39 am : link
This coaching staff has shown that they have the ability to develop young talent. RJ is significantly better than he was 2 years ago, Quickley and Toppin have made really nice progress since they were drafted, despite some regression this year Randle has been a much better player under Thibs, and even a guy like Mitch has improved in subtle ways.

With that said, Reddish has the potential to be an all-star based on talent. He can shoot, and he has all of the tools to be a + defender. For the remainder of this year, if they can get him to embrace a 3 and D type of role, and clean up his decision making, I think he will make the front office look very smart for making this move. They really just need to coach him out of some of the unnecessary risks and lapses in focus that you see on D, as well as improve his shot selection. Don’t shoot anything unless it’s at the rim or from 3. The midrange shots he takes are just not what you want from him, and hopefully Thibs can coach that stuff out of him.
RE: RE: .  
Del Shofner : 1/14/2022 9:04 am : link
In comment 15552494 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

Hate to break it to you, i dont think Obi is going to be here for much longer..


OK - who/what are they getting for him?
RE: RE: RE: .  
adamg : 1/14/2022 9:10 am : link
In comment 15552527 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 15552494 nygiants16 said:


Quote:



Hate to break it to you, i dont think Obi is going to be here for much longer..




OK - who/what are they getting for him?


Turner?

Kemba and Obi for Turner works salary wise.
RE: RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 9:21 am : link
In comment 15552527 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 15552494 nygiants16 said:


Quote:



Hate to break it to you, i dont think Obi is going to be here for much longer..




OK - who/what are they getting for him?


I dont know but is he treated like a player that is going to be here for awhile?
RE: I think through the first year and a half with the Knicks  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2022 9:45 am : link
In comment 15552495 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
RJ is significantly better than he was 2 years ago


Really? After taking a rather noticeable step back from last season?

He's on a little hot streak lately, but let's see if that turns into consistent good play rather than the pathetic outings we frequently saw from him earlier in the season.
It may just be an excuse, but  
Jan in DC : 1/14/2022 10:03 am : link
RJ said he was sick and then that rolled into COVID so he's only getting back to being himself. Hopefully he continues to trend upward.

I can't see the team not making a move at the deadline now. I felt like even before this trade we had a glut of players who needed minutes and now it's even more.
RE: Made inquires on Fox  
ajr2456 : 1/14/2022 10:35 am : link
In comment 15551818 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
NOT THIS WEEK but pre Kemba it started. Don’t throw out crap.


It’s not crap when you’ve heard it from both teams ;)
RJ has given us some reasons to be more  
Enzo : 1/14/2022 10:39 am : link
optimistic but even in his good games he'll do 2-3 things that have you wondering "WTF is he doing?". Could be he just has below average basketball instincts/IQ.
RE: RJ has given us some reasons to be more  
JohninSC : 1/14/2022 10:41 am : link
In comment 15552708 Enzo said:
Quote:
optimistic but even in his good games he'll do 2-3 things that have you wondering "WTF is he doing?". Could be he just has below average basketball instincts/IQ.


Or he's 21 and learning the game?
RJ is absolutely better than he was last year.  
manh george : 1/14/2022 10:42 am : link
He lost over a month of workouts and extra workouts--which he loves--with stomach problems, probably flu, and then Covid. He is just now getting his timing, and his strength and athleticism on inside moves is massively better than last year. He is getting higher on his dunks, and has added a really good inside jumper that he just didn't have last year. And, he can go to his right some. His 3-point % over the last 6 games is 50%! He won't keep doing that, but his confidence is back, and he is showing more capacity to move with the ball to get to an open space for the three, rather than being exclusively catch and shoot.

Given his earlier problems with "bugs," it isn't at all surprising that he is just now getting into shape. His 3-point percentage will just get better, and with increased strength and athleticism he is showing more on on-ball defense than last year.

I am highly confident that what we have seen the last 6 games is real, even adjusting down a little. And he is STILL only 21. He will get even stronger, and learn more technique.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Del Shofner : 1/14/2022 10:51 am : link
In comment 15552547 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I dont know but is he treated like a player that is going to be here for awhile?


That's very hard to tell with Thibs. At least he appears in games, lol.
Of course you're confident his hot streak is real  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2022 10:54 am : link
You've been a massive fan of the guy from the moment he was drafted. Nothing wrong with that, but I can't say I think of you as an objective observer.

And yes, I'm not objective either, I'll cop to that.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/14/2022 10:56 am : link
Some nights, RJ looks like a future star. Other nights, he looks lost. He's gotta become more consistent. & I get that he's 21.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15552732 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 15552547 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


I dont know but is he treated like a player that is going to be here for awhile?



That's very hard to tell with Thibs. At least he appears in games, lol.


I dont Rj is the youngest on the team and plays over 30, i believe still 2nd on the team, Quick is over 20 and finishes a lot of games, Grimes is playing more and more and ha sbeen over 20, Mitch plays 30..

It could be Thibs just doesnt like Obi or he is jist not in the plans
RJ  
five5 : 1/14/2022 10:56 am : link
The one thing that will prevent him from being great is he doesn't have that elite athleticism. He is a real good on ball defender and he is starting to create and make his own shot. I believe he should be option #1 on the offensive end at this point. JR is a ball stopper and the team is better off with him being more of a distributor than focal point
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Ron Johnson : 1/14/2022 10:57 am : link
In comment 15552535 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15552527 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


In comment 15552494 nygiants16 said:


Quote:



Hate to break it to you, i dont think Obi is going to be here for much longer..




OK - who/what are they getting for him?



Turner?

Kemba and Obi for Turner works salary wise.



I hope so. That trade makes the Knicks a lot better.
RE: RJ  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 11:01 am : link
In comment 15552745 five5 said:
Quote:
The one thing that will prevent him from being great is he doesn't have that elite athleticism. He is a real good on ball defender and he is starting to create and make his own shot. I believe he should be option #1 on the offensive end at this point. JR is a ball stopper and the team is better off with him being more of a distributor than focal point


If Randle is a good distributor isnt that the opposite of ball stopper?
I am cautiously optimistic with Rj  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 11:05 am : link
because his shot selection and his pace are much better, he is playing within the flow of the offense..He isnt just taking more shots..

Rj isnt getting the ball on evwry possession and nor should he, but when he gets the ball he is making smart decisions and he is scoring at all 3 levels..

NYG  
five5 : 1/14/2022 11:11 am : link
You tell me?

You seem to watch these games more than most. Aren't you tired of the isolations that turn into fall away jumpers w/a couple seconds on the shot clock? The Knicks are more efficient with him being a distributor and those 6-8 forced shots need be taken by others.
In regards to Obi  
JohninSC : 1/14/2022 11:15 am : link
He hasn't really developed a shot yet. He can't create any sort of offense consistently unless it's an alley oop or fast break dunk. Right now he reminds me of Derrick Williams.

*I think Obi can grow into a player, and Thibs has to find that minute/balance.
RE: NYG  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 11:16 am : link
In comment 15552763 five5 said:
Quote:
You tell me?

You seem to watch these games more than most. Aren't you tired of the isolations that turn into fall away jumpers w/a couple seconds on the shot clock? The Knicks are more efficient with him being a distributor and those 6-8 forced shots need be taken by others.


I am not disagreeing, i have been asking for that from the start, but the ball is going to be in his hands if he is going to be a distributor, so you cant call him a blackhole..

I dont hate iso as much as other people, i think every team iso's and in the playoffs it is basically iso and pick and roll all game..

What bothers me with Randle is he forces the iso, there is a way to iso that can set up the entire offense and it looks awesome..To many times hr isos and forces a shot or forces the dribble..

In the game against the mavs he didnt do that, he ran dribble hand offs, he ran pick and roll where he was the ball handler and roller, when mavs doubled he quickly moved it and got wide open looks..thats what i want..

I dont mind iso, if they dont double take the guy to the hoop and finish strong, if he backs off shoot it, those are good shots
RE: In regards to Obi  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 11:17 am : link
In comment 15552775 JohninSC said:
Quote:
He hasn't really developed a shot yet. He can't create any sort of offense consistently unless it's an alley oop or fast break dunk. Right now he reminds me of Derrick Williams.

*I think Obi can grow into a player, and Thibs has to find that minute/balance.


I think he can develop into a damn good player but the minutes are just not going to be there to show it..

Notice Grimes played well with everyone out, players come back and he is still getting those minutez..

Obi played well, players come back and his minutes have gone down..
RE: RE: In regards to Obi  
adamg : 1/14/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15552781 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15552775 JohninSC said:


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He hasn't really developed a shot yet. He can't create any sort of offense consistently unless it's an alley oop or fast break dunk. Right now he reminds me of Derrick Williams.

*I think Obi can grow into a player, and Thibs has to find that minute/balance.



I think he can develop into a damn good player but the minutes are just not going to be there to show it..

Notice Grimes played well with everyone out, players come back and he is still getting those minutez..

Obi played well, players come back and his minutes have gone down..


Obi is playing behind Randle. Like you've said, Thibs won't play him at the five by design, so he's got no opening.
RE: RE: RE: In regards to Obi  
BigBlueShock : 1/14/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15552825 adamg said:
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In comment 15552781 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15552775 JohninSC said:


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He hasn't really developed a shot yet. He can't create any sort of offense consistently unless it's an alley oop or fast break dunk. Right now he reminds me of Derrick Williams.

*I think Obi can grow into a player, and Thibs has to find that minute/balance.



I think he can develop into a damn good player but the minutes are just not going to be there to show it..

Notice Grimes played well with everyone out, players come back and he is still getting those minutez..

Obi played well, players come back and his minutes have gone down..



Obi is playing behind Randle. Like you've said, Thibs won't play him at the five by design, so he's got no opening.

Randle doesn’t need 38 minutes every single night. There are plenty of ways to get Obi more than 9-10 minutes per game. For whatever reason, Thibs just doesn’t seem to be a huge Obi guy. He’s got the shortest leash on the team
RE: RE: RE: In regards to Obi  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 11:42 am : link
In comment 15552825 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15552781 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15552775 JohninSC said:


Quote:


He hasn't really developed a shot yet. He can't create any sort of offense consistently unless it's an alley oop or fast break dunk. Right now he reminds me of Derrick Williams.

*I think Obi can grow into a player, and Thibs has to find that minute/balance.



I think he can develop into a damn good player but the minutes are just not going to be there to show it..

Notice Grimes played well with everyone out, players come back and he is still getting those minutez..

Obi played well, players come back and his minutes have gone down..



Obi is playing behind Randle. Like you've said, Thibs won't play him at the five by design, so he's got no opening.


If thibs or the front office believed in Obi they would find minutes for him, you dont keep guys you like on the bench and only play them 10 minutes a game
RE: Of course you're confident his hot streak is real  
djm : 1/14/2022 11:58 am : link
In comment 15552739 Greg from LI said:
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You've been a massive fan of the guy from the moment he was drafted. Nothing wrong with that, but I can't say I think of you as an objective observer.

And yes, I'm not objective either, I'll cop to that.


I’m a homer but objective with RJB. I think he’s developing into a star right before our eyes. I’ve never seen him look this good before, in the NBA. He’s had big games the last two years but these performances look different. He just looks more explosive or talented to me. I think he’s growing both mentally and physically even if he doesn’t look any bigger. He’s growing up.

I guess what I’m saying is I expect this play to continue. Maybe not 30 every night but he’s turned a corner. We recently as last April I was saying I wasn’t sure about RJB.

The problem with Obi is that he's not a 10 year vet.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2022 12:00 pm : link
At least that's Thibs' problem.
RE: The problem with Obi is that he's not a 10 year vet.  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15552878 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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At least that's Thibs' problem.


tired narrative
RE: RE: RJ  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15552752 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15552745 five5 said:


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The one thing that will prevent him from being great is he doesn't have that elite athleticism. He is a real good on ball defender and he is starting to create and make his own shot. I believe he should be option #1 on the offensive end at this point. JR is a ball stopper and the team is better off with him being more of a distributor than focal point



If Randle is a good distributor isnt that the opposite of ball stopper?


I hate this latest narrative about Randle and I’ll scream it from the hilltops that he’s getting way too much shit lately.

Every great offensive force in the nba can be labeled a ball stopper. It’s called iso offense. Literally every single team does it. Teams struggle to always maintain or run a perfect set offense with 1986 Celtics like ball movement every time down the floor. Defenses take that away sometimes or you just struggle to run it. You go ISO if you’re lucky enough to have that player or players that can bail you out sometimes.

Ever since Randle got paid fans started to get all critical on him. He’s still a relative bargain and his contract is virtually harmless. Never fucking fails.
RE: RE: RJ has given us some reasons to be more  
Enzo : 1/14/2022 12:09 pm : link
In comment 15552711 JohninSC said:
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In comment 15552708 Enzo said:


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optimistic but even in his good games he'll do 2-3 things that have you wondering "WTF is he doing?". Could be he just has below average basketball instincts/IQ.



Or he's 21 and learning the game?

I'd buy that if he were making agressive mistakes. But that's not what I'm seeing.
Ball stopper  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:10 pm : link
Yet the guy leads the team in assists. Gimme a fucking break. Watch other nba games please.

That’s not to say Randle can’t play better but it basically comes down to his 3 pt shot. If he gets hot again from downtown his overall game will once again reach elite status. He plays hard every night filling up the box score.
RE: Ball stopper  
adamg : 1/14/2022 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15552902 djm said:
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Yet the guy leads the team in assists. Gimme a fucking break. Watch other nba games please.

That’s not to say Randle can’t play better but it basically comes down to his 3 pt shot. If he gets hot again from downtown his overall game will once again reach elite status. He plays hard every night filling up the box score.


I was saying this the other day. And there is something to it.

But I'm very down on Randle lately. Maybe it's just a matter of looking at him for what he is. Which is a third best player on a contender.
DJM  
five5 : 1/14/2022 12:21 pm : link
Randle numbers are down across the board this year (maybe other than rebounding). He hasn't had a good year at all. I am not saying he isn't their best player but when Randle is your best player you are going to be a middle of the pack team...and BTW he is a ball stopper.
My issue with Randle is  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 12:22 pm : link
he shouldnt be taking 17 shots per game if he is hot sure go for it, but when his shot is off move the ball and set up your teammates..

Against the mavs he did better and i thought he played a good game but he shouldnt of taken 17 shots..

That is where Randle is hurting the team
RE: DJM  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15552920 five5 said:
Quote:
Randle numbers are down across the board this year (maybe other than rebounding). He hasn't had a good year at all. I am not saying he isn't their best player but when Randle is your best player you are going to be a middle of the pack team...and BTW he is a ball stopper.


I dont think you know what ball stopper means
3rd best 2nd best who cares  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:25 pm : link
Randle is one of the best PFs in the game. He’s fine, assuming he finishes this year strong and I think he will.

RE: The problem with Obi is that he's not a 10 year vet.  
Ron Johnson : 1/14/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15552878 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
At least that's Thibs' problem.


neither is Barrett
RE: DJM  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15552920 five5 said:
Quote:
Randle numbers are down across the board this year (maybe other than rebounding). He hasn't had a good year at all. I am not saying he isn't their best player but when Randle is your best player you are going to be a middle of the pack team...and BTW he is a ball stopper.


So what? Why are we shitting all over Randle because he’s not Lebron or Durant? How about we develop better players around him?

The guy was a journeyman before busting out last year. We got something good for basically nothing. Be happy we stole an all star but no we have to bitch because he’s not the best player in the league.

We stole Randle. We can build on that alone.
Every great scorer is a ball stopper  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:29 pm : link
But ok.

Some of you deserve to watch bad players only.
I have my issues with Randle  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 12:33 pm : link
but i think people need to go watch other teams and watch how they play
Look you want to trade Randle for a player that fits here  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:33 pm : link
Or make a trade that helps the team improve and Randle has to be traded? I’d drive him to the airport myself.

It just sounds like many Knicks fans want to move this guy in a lateral type move. Friend texted me two days ago saying Obi needs to start Randle should be dumped ASAP. Friggin twilight zone.
RE: I have my issues with Randle  
djm : 1/14/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15552956 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but i think people need to go watch other teams and watch how they play


I actually do too. He annoys me at times especially since hawks last spring. But some of us need to slow the fuck down.
People should go watch the Bulls  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 12:37 pm : link
go watch how they play offense its either iso Derozan or iso Lavine or pick and pop with vucevic..
Randles problen this year is  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 12:43 pm : link
effecientcy, its not iso or having the ball to much, he has not shot well especially from 3 and has not taken good shots at time..

He has taken less shots than last year and has turn the ball over less than last year..

He needs to play more in the flow rather than force and he will be fine..
Realistically with Randle  
ajr2456 : 1/14/2022 12:54 pm : link
You’re not going to get last years Randle every year, but if you can get 75% of last years Randle he’s worth the contract and a piece you can build with.
Kings receiving heavy interest on Fox  
ajr2456 : 1/14/2022 1:05 pm : link
Pet Haynes
Fox - ( New Window )
Two things...  
Jan in DC : 1/14/2022 1:58 pm : link
The issue with Randle isn't really the ISO. I think every team has ISO sets and Thibs loves his mismatches. The issue is the quickness of the decision-making. Randle has been very slow to react this year, though I think Thibs has mentioned it to him because it's getting better.

The other thing is with RJB. I love him and want him to succeed. I was listening to a Ringer pod talk about him and they said something that I think is really true. RJ does great when there's a defender on him that he can bully, and physically impose himself on the game. If there's a longer, athletic player on him, he struggles.
RE: Every great scorer is a ball stopper  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2022 2:07 pm : link
In comment 15552944 djm said:
Quote:
But ok.

Some of you deserve to watch bad players only.




When the ball goes in the net, you're a scorer. When it doesn't you're a ball stopper. There's some old adage like that.
RE: RE: Made inquires on Fox  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15552693 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15551818 Carl in CT said:


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NOT THIS WEEK but pre Kemba it started. Don’t throw out crap.

It’s been going on for some time. Why state that it’s this week? If your in the know then you also know we made a call right after Hali was drafted. Interest has been there that long. But it take two to tangle.



It’s not crap when you’ve heard it from both teams ;)
RE: RE: RE: Made inquires on Fox  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15553179 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15552693 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15551818 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


NOT THIS WEEK but pre Kemba it started. Don’t throw out crap.

It’s been going on for some time. Why state that it’s this week? If your in the know then you also know we made a call right after Hali was drafted. Interest has been there that long. But it take two to tangle.



It’s not crap when you’ve heard it from both teams ;)



Yeah Kings have told the Knicks it has to be a crazy good package for them to say yes
Rj was consulted on the Reddish deal  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 2:39 pm : link
also he basically admits that Zion called Rj when Reddish was dealt to the Knicks
16 start with salary  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2022 2:41 pm : link
Then most of our young guys/bench/picks. Are we then better? Unless your also clearing space, going to punt this year and have a free agent (wink) willing to sign you almost can’t do it. That’s the dilemma.
AR  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2022 2:43 pm : link
Made the same comment months ago that Dame could be had without RJB which I called BS.
RE: 16 start with salary  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15553194 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Then most of our young guys/bench/picks. Are we then better? Unless your also clearing space, going to punt this year and have a free agent (wink) willing to sign you almost can’t do it. That’s the dilemma.


Oh i know, i said a couple of months ago i hear the Knicks had been pursuing Fox and that they have been persistant but the asking price is crazy
If Rj and Randle are not offered  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 2:48 pm : link
its going to cost Quickley, Toppin and Grimes as the young pieces, plus Burks and Noel as cap filler, plus 3 1sts
RE: Two things...  
shyster : 1/14/2022 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15553129 Jan in DC said:
Quote:


The other thing is with RJB. I love him and want him to succeed. I was listening to a Ringer pod talk about him and they said something that I think is really true. RJ does great when there's a defender on him that he can bully, and physically impose himself on the game. If there's a longer, athletic player on him, he struggles.


Agree. Ben Simmmons and De'Andre Hunter are two that have given him a hard time in the past.

Hunter is back from his injury, so that will be a test tomorrow night.

Re Reddish: whenever there is a trade, I always read the other team's fan board because I figure they're the ones who see the player every day and know more than we do.

Opinion seems split down the middle: many Hawks' fans still believe in Reddish's potential to be a good player and think that he may have been held beck by circumstances: injuries, COVID, usage, etc.

About as many were ready to wash their hands of him and get back whatever they could get, given that he is close to being extension eligible. Some called him the worst rotation player on the team over the last two years and offered stats to back it up.

Of course, we have to hope that those with the positive view of CR are more accurate in their perceptions. I have noticed that some Knicks' fans hang on to hopes about top ten picks past the reasonable expiration date.

Nobody seeme
Also 4.5 years left on a $165m contract  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2022 2:52 pm : link
100% guaranteed. Does he put us in the finals? For what you have to give up is the call.
RE: Also 4.5 years left on a $165m contract  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15553215 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
100% guaranteed. Does he put us in the finals? For what you have to give up is the call.


From my source who is outside the organization so this is perception maybe not complete reality..

Wes and Perry want Fox

Thibs and Rose want Brunson
RE: AR  
ajr2456 : 1/14/2022 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15553196 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Made the same comment months ago that Dame could be had without RJB which I called BS.


I stand by it when multiple people in the league told me the same thing. They can get Dame or SGA without giving up RJ.
AR  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2022 3:00 pm : link
I’ll take you for your word. Then we should start thinking about it (maybe).
Portland  
ajr2456 : 1/14/2022 3:01 pm : link
And OKC haven’t made either player available for trade yet.
RE: RE: AR  
adamg : 1/14/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15553220 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15553196 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Made the same comment months ago that Dame could be had without RJB which I called BS.



I stand by it when multiple people in the league told me the same thing. They can get Dame or SGA without giving up RJ.


If they can get SGA without giving up RJ, they have to do it, imo.
RE: RE: Also 4.5 years left on a $165m contract  
adamg : 1/14/2022 4:22 pm : link
In comment 15553218 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15553215 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


100% guaranteed. Does he put us in the finals? For what you have to give up is the call.



From my source who is outside the organization so this is perception maybe not complete reality..

Wes and Perry want Fox

Thibs and Rose want Brunson


I'm with Thubs and Rose.
RE: RE: RE: Also 4.5 years left on a $165m contract  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15553340 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15553218 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15553215 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


100% guaranteed. Does he put us in the finals? For what you have to give up is the call.



From my source who is outside the organization so this is perception maybe not complete reality..

Wes and Perry want Fox

Thibs and Rose want Brunson



I'm with Thubs and Rose.


mee too
^^^^  
Del Shofner : 1/14/2022 4:49 pm : link
what do you think it takes to get Brunson?
RE: ^^^^  
nygiants16 : 1/14/2022 4:55 pm : link
In comment 15553369 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
what do you think it takes to get Brunson?


I dont know to be honest, he is a free agent so uaually teams dont get proper value, i also dont know if the Mavs are going to pony up and sign him
I don’t see a huge long term imp  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2022 7:27 pm : link
I’m my opinion over McBride IQ or 3 firsts in the nest two years which should be a 1 or a 5. Rest of the team has plenty of bodies. However Brunson is an avg PG.
Brunson should be infinitely cheaper than Fox  
adamg : 1/14/2022 9:25 pm : link
.
I wanted the Knicks to draft Jalen Johnson, so it will be interesting  
Jim in Hoboken : 1/14/2022 10:34 pm : link
to see how Reddish fares with the Knicks.

Reddish reminds me a lot of Paul George, slightly less athletic, but his big rep in HS hasn't really translated in college or the pros.
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