Flores a candidate for HC

guess it depends on the GM pick. Flores does not seem to be aligned with Schoen in any way, but who knows.

with incompetent front office, terrible OL and injury prone QB. So of course he is a fit for the Giants!

All kidding aside Flores seems like a good coach, but Giants need an HC that can improve the entire Offensive side of the ball w/o relying on the OC. The new HC can always retain Graham or hire an experienced DC to try and take the D up another level.

I'm predicting a Poles/Flores pairing to lead the Giants.

All these NE guys want more say and control over personnel like BB, but haven't earned that honor. I think Flores was on his way to getting that but you need to earn it first.

I think he's a good coach but concerned over the power dynamics with a new GM.

I would guess Schoen because he has seen Flores's teams twice per year and also Schoen had his first big break in NFL under Parcells. Not necessarily certain that Schoen brings Daboll with him especially if brass was not thrilled with his play calling.

In comment 15551615 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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I'm predicting a Poles/Flores pairing to lead the Giants.

I think if it is Poles as GM he is likely bringing Doug Pederson with him as HC

In comment 15551618 Mike in NY said:

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I would guess Schoen because he has seen Flores's teams twice per year and also Schoen had his first big break in NFL under Parcells. Not necessarily certain that Schoen brings Daboll with him especially if brass was not thrilled with his play calling.

Agreed - it would make sense for Schoen to have a specific appreciation Flores having gone against him a lot (both when he was on staff in NE and then HC in Miami). I'm sure he still knows people in the Miami organization he trusts who can speak to Flores behind the scenes as well.

In comment 15551615 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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I'm predicting a Poles/Flores pairing to lead the Giants.

I’d love this.

Daboll has jumped around but has ties to NE. That is ok?

Interesting call. Poles would have some pretty good knowledge on him as he was QB coach. I forgot about that.

to run his offense?"

The Giants offense is broken and that has to be among the first questions asked in any interview.

In comment 15551611 ryanmkeane said:

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guess it depends on the GM pick. Flores does not seem to be aligned with Schoen in any way, but who knows.

Since they are in the same division, he should be pretty familiar, even if they have no personal connection. Enough to make an evaluation

serious about candidates with winning records.

Need to do some reading up and discuss with my Miami friends.

Not Hyman Roth...

but his last two years he has a winning record.

And as much as I want to improve our offense, 2 of the last 3 head coaches we had were offensive guys, how did that work out?

I'd love Flores to be the coach, but it's the GM's decision, and we don't know who that is yet! This is super speculation until we get a GM.

If not the best one.

In comment 15551615 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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I'm predicting a Poles/Flores pairing to lead the Giants.

All BC combo?

In comment 15551613 kdog77 said:

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with incompetent front office, terrible OL and injury prone QB. So of course he is a fit for the Giants! All kidding aside Flores seems like a good coach, but Giants need an HC that can improve the entire Offensive side of the ball w/o relying on the OC. The new HC can always retain Graham or hire an experienced DC to try and take the D up another level.

Also needs to be adept in not feeding the trolls

fired from his last job after an 8-1 finish.

He seems incredibly talented but just too big of a risk because of that IMO.

He was my favorite choice to replace Judge. That was until we heard about him being difficult to work with. He also did not get along with Miami GM Grier who should have been fired first IMO as he has done a very poor job draft and signing FA's despite significant cap space.

I am still in support of hiring him.

.

And beat Belichick 3 out of the last 4 times. His teams were never unprepared, they always played hard, and by all accounts wanted players in the draft that became highly successful elsewhere but was overruled by the Miami GM.

I'm not going to compare him to BB, but there is an eerie similarity to getting his first shot as a HC, doing unexpectedly well, getting unfairly fired. And we all know how BB's second shot turned out.

You could do far, far, far worse than Flores.

to the tier of Boss head coaches.

He does excite me.

the giants are going to have a first time GM. by all accounts flores was difficult to work with in miami which is what led to his firing.

as good of a coach as i think he is, i don't know if his personality with a new, first time GM, and with mara is a good idea.

I was convinced that Miami was going 0-16 but after a couple of terrible games they played hard and finished 5-11. That doesn't sound good but they had Giants cast offs like Calvin Munson, Avery Moss, and John Jenkins start for them.

They played hard each week and stayed in nearly every game despite being significant injuries and a severe lack of talent especially on defense and the OL.

here's Barry Jackson's column, he's not upton sinclain but he's generally the most well-sourced down there. He presents both sides but on my read the arguments against firing Flores seem pretty hollow. Obviously you can't ignore a bizarre firing and the giants need to do a deep vetting of any candidate, but from the outside I'm not seeing anything that seems specifically fireable - maybe he wanted control and maybe he was a hard ass to some - but it seems to me you could probably change "flores" to "coughlin" or "cowher" or "harbough" (john) or "parcells" or "belichek" or a lot of other great coaches and write the same story on their canton plaque.

This particular part stood out to me (emphasis added by me below), as well as the fact that Grier has now survived both Gase and Flores.

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Ross believes that Grier has upgraded the roster significantly and is fine with overlooking the mistakes, including the selection of Charles Harris over T.J. Watt, Noah Igbinoghene over a running back and the Tagovailoa/Justin Herbert decision. Again, Flores was involved the Igbinoghene and Tagovailoa decisions and on board with both. But it’s easier for Ross to keep the long-term employee with the pleasant demeanor — the one who treats him royally — than the only that’s perceived as difficult to work with.

Behind-the-scenes fallout, factors in wake of the Flores dismissal. - ( New Window )

.......everybody is a candidate, we have no idea who's on the lists of our future GM...don't even know who the GM is...more lazy hype reporting . I'm sure the new GM will interview some very obvious and a few not so obvious candidates...but until a GM is in place, everything is pure speculation

with a grain of salt. Often the team (through a chosen sports writer) will spin it their way to justify the firing. I'd be more interested in hearing from some of the Dolphin players about what they think of Flores.

At this point I want Flores or Pederson, a HC that has had some success in the NFL and not first-time HC.

..

hiring a miami cast off more than a philly cast off.

Isn't Flores rumored to be a pain in the ass?

for a few years around here. The team still stinks.

Maybe time to bring in someone with a little different approach. I take his pushing for power and a ultra competitive streak which I would fully embrace as HC of the Giants.

Fix the defense and identify a good OC/QB coach for a rookie in 2023. Best friend for a rookie other than a good OL is a outstanding defense.

but I’m not sold on Daboll. I wonder what the odds of him or any of these potential GMs going for Flores is.

I know they had the impressive record in the 2nd half but they played nobody except the Titans who crushed them. I would hope that the Giants could bring a coach who didn't just underwhelm and got himself fired 2 weeks ago. What is going to be so different here?

Would he keep our DC. Would be interesting to see if that was the case.

In comment 15551823 Walker Gillette said:

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I know they had the impressive record in the 2nd half but they played nobody except the Titans who crushed them. I would hope that the Giants could bring a coach who didn't just underwhelm and got himself fired 2 weeks ago. What is going to be so different here?

The Patriots are nobody especially when a victory means they win the division and have at least one home field game in postseason?

and they’ll try to get Watson to come back and play for them.

of Flores

In comment 15551727 Eric on Li said:

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here's Barry Jackson's column, he's not upton sinclain but he's generally the most well-sourced down there. He presents both sides but on my read the arguments against firing Flores seem pretty hollow. Obviously you can't ignore a bizarre firing and the giants need to do a deep vetting of any candidate, but from the outside I'm not seeing anything that seems specifically fireable - maybe he wanted control and maybe he was a hard ass to some - but it seems to me you could probably change "flores" to "coughlin" or "cowher" or "harbough" (john) or "parcells" or "belichek" or a lot of other great coaches and write the same story on their canton plaque. This particular part stood out to me (emphasis added by me below), as well as the fact that Grier has now survived both Gase and Flores. Quote: Ross believes that Grier has upgraded the roster significantly and is fine with overlooking the mistakes, including the selection of Charles Harris over T.J. Watt, Noah Igbinoghene over a running back and the Tagovailoa/Justin Herbert decision. Again, Flores was involved the Igbinoghene and Tagovailoa decisions and on board with both. But it’s easier for Ross to keep the long-term employee with the pleasant demeanor — the one who treats him royally — than the only that’s perceived as difficult to work with. Behind-the-scenes fallout, factors in wake of the Flores dismissal. - ( New Window )

If he wants more power, than the Giants are the wrong place for him. I don't think this team will ever get rid of its GM/Coach split. Here's an article a little more favorable to Flores.

He's still on top of my list, if he can work with the structure the Giants want.
Flores story from The Ringer - ( New Window )

In comment 15551847 Metnut said:

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and they’ll try to get Watson to come back and play for them.

Seems to be a lot of folks saying that because Caserio is GM.

In comment 15551616 BH28 said:

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All these NE guys want more say and control over personnel like BB, but haven't earned that honor. I think Flores was on his way to getting that but you need to earn it first. I think he's a good coach but concerned over the power dynamics with a new GM.

We don't know how true that was, or what kind of control he was asking for. Hell, Joe Judge got more say after a 6-10 season. I think a lot coming out of Miami about Flores is spin.

In comment 15551839 Mike in NY said:

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In comment 15551823 Walker Gillette said: Quote: I know they had the impressive record in the 2nd half but they played nobody except the Titans who crushed them. I would hope that the Giants could bring a coach who didn't just underwhelm and got himself fired 2 weeks ago. What is going to be so different here? The Patriots are nobody especially when a victory means they win the division and have at least one home field game in postseason?

If I remember this correctly weren't the Pats eliminated from the division once the Bills won?

In comment 15551894 Walker Gillette said:

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In comment 15551839 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 15551823 Walker Gillette said: Quote: I know they had the impressive record in the 2nd half but they played nobody except the Titans who crushed them. I would hope that the Giants could bring a coach who didn't just underwhelm and got himself fired 2 weeks ago. What is going to be so different here? The Patriots are nobody especially when a victory means they win the division and have at least one home field game in postseason? If I remember this correctly weren't the Pats eliminated from the division once the Bills won?

Yes, the Bills beat the Jets in a 1pm game and the Pats v. Dolphins was a 4:25 game so the Pats had nothing to play for!

In comment 15551772 djm said:

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hiring a miami cast off more than a philly cast off. Isn't Flores rumored to be a pain in the ass?

Andy Reid was also a Philly cast-off.

Tom Coughlin was a Jacksonville cast-off.

Bill Belichick was a Cleveland cast-off, etc.

Ray Handley, Ben McAdoo and Joe Judge were NOT cast-offs.

Any experienced NFL HC who is currently available could be described as a "cast-off".

In comment 15551898 Walker Gillette said:

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In comment 15551894 Walker Gillette said: Quote: In comment 15551839 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 15551823 Walker Gillette said: Quote: I know they had the impressive record in the 2nd half but they played nobody except the Titans who crushed them. I would hope that the Giants could bring a coach who didn't just underwhelm and got himself fired 2 weeks ago. What is going to be so different here? The Patriots are nobody especially when a victory means they win the division and have at least one home field game in postseason? If I remember this correctly weren't the Pats eliminated from the division once the Bills won? Yes, the Bills beat the Jets in a 1pm game and the Pats v. Dolphins was a 4:25 game so the Pats had nothing to play for!

No both games were at 4:25

Schedule - ( New Window )

I can't imagine why the Giants job would be so appealing. He is going to have a GM he needs to work through who will not likely step aside and let him do what he wants, and that structure will not change.

In comment 15551908 Jim in Tampa said:

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In comment 15551898 Walker Gillette said: Quote: In comment 15551894 Walker Gillette said: Quote: In comment 15551839 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 15551823 Walker Gillette said: Quote: I know they had the impressive record in the 2nd half but they played nobody except the Titans who crushed them. I would hope that the Giants could bring a coach who didn't just underwhelm and got himself fired 2 weeks ago. What is going to be so different here? The Patriots are nobody especially when a victory means they win the division and have at least one home field game in postseason? If I remember this correctly weren't the Pats eliminated from the division once the Bills won? Yes, the Bills beat the Jets in a 1pm game and the Pats v. Dolphins was a 4:25 game so the Pats had nothing to play for! No both games were at 4:25 Schedule - ( New Window )

That's what I get for listening to a client who is a a Jets fan! Still you can somehow imagine that the Pats players weren't too confident of the jets winning in Buffalo!

In comment 15551891 Section331 said:

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In comment 15551616 BH28 said: Quote: All these NE guys want more say and control over personnel like BB, but haven't earned that honor. I think Flores was on his way to getting that but you need to earn it first. I think he's a good coach but concerned over the power dynamics with a new GM. We don't know how true that was, or what kind of control he was asking for. Hell, Joe Judge got more say after a 6-10 season. I think a lot coming out of Miami about Flores is spin.

It gives me pause that a guy who had pretty good success there, relatively speaking, was forced out. That just screams the negatives outweigh the positives.

I know you can't outright dismiss dysfunctional ownership, but it still is enough of a red flag, the Giants better do their due diligence on this one.

In comment 15551934 BH28 said:

Quote:

In comment 15551891 Section331 said: Quote: In comment 15551616 BH28 said: Quote: All these NE guys want more say and control over personnel like BB, but haven't earned that honor. I think Flores was on his way to getting that but you need to earn it first. I think he's a good coach but concerned over the power dynamics with a new GM. We don't know how true that was, or what kind of control he was asking for. Hell, Joe Judge got more say after a 6-10 season. I think a lot coming out of Miami about Flores is spin. It gives me pause that a guy who had pretty good success there, relatively speaking, was forced out. That just screams the negatives outweigh the positives. I know you can't outright dismiss dysfunctional ownership, but it still is enough of a red flag, the Giants better do their due diligence on this one.

The last guy who had pretty good success there and was forced out, happened to be hired right away by a different NY team. The had nearly the exact same records. Flores was one game better.

wish list. Miami played the way Joe Judge talked (and I like Judge). I'm all for a very strong personality who has proven he can win games in the NFL and wants the power to do it. I hope the GM, whoever it is, is just as strong a personality. Strong enough so that the both of them can push the Mara's into the background where they can be most effective IMO.

I'd pass. Why is a coach in year 3 starting a season 1-7?

In comment 15551950 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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I'd pass. Why is a coach in year 3 starting a season 1-7?

His starting QB got hurt at the beginning of the game in week 2 and they lost 5 in a row without him?

With Tua they were 8-4.

In comment 15551975 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 15551950 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: I'd pass. Why is a coach in year 3 starting a season 1-7? His starting QB got hurt at the beginning of the game in week 2 and they lost 5 in a row without him? With Tua they were 8-4.

They had what most people would think is a high quality backup. It wasn't exactly Glennon back there. The last time Brissett was a full time starter he was capable enough to win 7 games. 18 TD, 6 INT. With the dolphins they had catastrophic losses to Atlanta and Jacksonville.

I'm no Flores expert but there's enough there to make me question it.

If reports are true, Flores seems incredibly tough to get along with
Flores vs. Tua blowup - ( New Window )

I'd love for Flores to get the job. He did a helluva job in Miami with a roster that wasn't exactly the '72 'Fins.

As for the post firing stuff...I never know what to make of it. There's obviously a lot of CYA/damage control when someone gets fired & it comes from both parties. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

To be difficult to deal with and overreach for control and authority.

O'Brien, McDaniels, Patricia, Saban as a pro in Miami, And depending on what you read, Judge and Flores

In comment 15552051 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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To be difficult to deal with and overreach for control and authority. O'Brien, McDaniels, Patricia, Saban as a pro in Miami, And depending on what you read, Judge and Flores

It happens all over. HC is responsible for the W/L record. I think some are better at getting there way but it usually helps if your winning. I stand on the side the HC is on the front lines and the GM provides the supplies. Ideally you hope they share similar views and can compromise on disagreements.

I heard about the Tua/Flores situation but Tua did send him a Christmas card! Interestingly a guy on NFL network said the players love Flores. Said he is much more than a coach and takes mentoring the players very seriously on life outside of football .

In comment 15552048 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I'd love for Flores to get the job. He did a helluva job in Miami with a roster that wasn't exactly the '72 'Fins. As for the post firing stuff...I never know what to make of it. There's obviously a lot of CYA/damage control when someone gets fired & it comes from both parties. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Well the guy did get fired for something. And it’s not much of a stretch to say it didn’t have to do with the results on the field because they were pretty damn good.

Fair enough. But it could also because Flores apparently wanted Herbert, but Grier took Tua & that caused bad blood between the two?

I think Flores is a really good head coach. And I'd be stoked if we ended up with him, but we shall see.

In comment 15552004 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 15551975 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 15551950 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: I'd pass. Why is a coach in year 3 starting a season 1-7? His starting QB got hurt at the beginning of the game in week 2 and they lost 5 in a row without him? With Tua they were 8-4. They had what most people would think is a high quality backup. It wasn't exactly Glennon back there. The last time Brissett was a full time starter he was capable enough to win 7 games. 18 TD, 6 INT. With the dolphins they had catastrophic losses to Atlanta and Jacksonville. I'm no Flores expert but there's enough there to make me question it.

Questions are fair game for any non-Belichek candidate. Just pointing out that it's understandable to lose games with a backup QB and go .500 in a year where the starter was out for more than a month. There's a stronger consensus that Flores didn't deserve to get fired than vice versa. The guy almost won coach of the year last year.

the negative reports. It isnt just one report now. The article from The Ringer posted in this thread was plenty fair, and still depicted Flores as a guy who needs to smooth out his rough edges to get another gig

4 offensive coordinators in 3 years?

He sure can coach, and apparently wanted Hebert over Tua which is a plus. But can Flores get along with his players and his GM?

And if he really does want Watson, what team is going to take on that PR nightmare? Certainly not the Giants.

In comment 15551905 Jim in Tampa said:

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In comment 15551772 djm said: Quote: hiring a miami cast off more than a philly cast off. Isn't Flores rumored to be a pain in the ass? Andy Reid was also a Philly cast-off. Tom Coughlin was a Jacksonville cast-off. Bill Belichick was a Cleveland cast-off, etc. Ray Handley, Ben McAdoo and Joe Judge were NOT cast-offs. Any experienced NFL HC who is currently available could be described as a "cast-off".

Poor choice of words on my part I wasn’t really focusing on the “cast off” part anyway. Was just thinking former Miami is more palatable than Philly...

I loved the Dolphins defense. All about pressuring the QB. Ultimately what you need to shut teams down. Get the organization right and this guy will represent a respective product even in down years.