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Brian Daboll- Not so fast

JohninSC : 1/13/2022 2:53 pm
So I know with Joe Schoen being an interesting candidate for GM, a lot of fans and media are linking Brian Daboll to come along with him. He's been an OC for quite a few years (including heading down to be OC at Alabama)

I tracked his years as OC using the DVOA. What's DVOA?

Quote:
DVOA: The main statistic used on Football Outsiders, DVOA breaks down the entire season play-by-play, comparing success on each play to the league average based on a number of variables including down, distance, location on field, current score gap, quarter, and opponent quality. While it can be used as a measure of total team performance, it differs from other power ratings found throughout the Web because it can be broken down to analyze team effectiveness in any number of ways: down, quarter, rushing vs. receiving, location on field, passes to backs vs. passes to receivers, and so on. Read the article METHODS TO THE MADNESS for more information. DVOA stands for Defense-adjusted Value Over Average, although we use the same letters to refer to defensive rankings which are adjusted to take into account the quality of offensive opponents. When not adjusted for opponent, this stat is called VOA.



Year Team DVOA Rank (Total)
2009 Browns 24 (-16.8)
2010 Browns 21 (-5.0)
2011 Miami 20 (-7.2)
2012 Chiefs 31 (-26.0)
2018 Bills 31 (-27.5)
2019 Bills 21 (-7.0)
2020 Bills 5 (15.6)
2021 Bills 10 (9.7)

Are these past 2 years simply because of Josh Allen? His resume kinda shows me that.

I'm more interested in Greg Roman. Here are his years when he served as Offensive Coordinator.

Year Team DVOA Rank (Total)
2011 49ers 18 (-3.7)
2012 49ers 5 (17.4)
2013 49ers 9 (9.7)
2014 49ers 14 (-0.3)
2015 Bills 9 (9.7)
2016 Bills 10 (10.5)
2019 Ravens 1 (28.2)
2020 Ravens 11 (4.3)
2021 Ravens 17 (2.0)

A lot more impressive than Daboll. I think Roman/Horwitz or Roman/Schoen is the much better combo going forward.

The more I look into Schoen, the more I have my reservations as well  
AJ23 : 1/13/2022 2:56 pm : link
I posted the breakdown on another thread earlier but Hortiz's record picking talent is impressive. Schoen's is really not, in comparison.
I'm a big fan of Roman's offense  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 2:58 pm : link
Does that mean he'll be a good head coach? Who knows. Same could be said for Daboll too, as his offense feels like the opposite Roman's.
Thats fair  
Jerry in_DC : 1/13/2022 3:00 pm : link
Talent is a factor here, but that is an interesting data point.

One thing I think is interesting about Daboll is that he's been so many places. He's been exposed to a lot coaches, practice approaches, schemes, etc. Seems like a good way to learn.

But it's always hard to tell with these assistants.
?  
AdamBrag : 1/13/2022 3:01 pm : link
Brian Daboll is widely attributed to turning Josh Allen from a complete bust to an All Pro QB.
Be wary  
LG in NYC : 1/13/2022 3:03 pm : link
of any "hot" coordinator - there is very little way of knowing who can translate their coordinator skills into HC success.

it is silly to just assume bc some was a successful coord that they will be a good HC.

RE: ?  
santacruzom : 1/13/2022 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15551662 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brian Daboll is widely attributed to turning Josh Allen from a complete bust to an All Pro QB.


When was Allen ever considered to be a complete bust?
RE: ?  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15551662 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
Brian Daboll is widely attributed to turning Josh Allen from a complete bust to an All Pro QB.


I'm not saying that. I'm just saying he only had great years when Allen was playing as a top 5 QB. All of the other years his offenses were pretty putrid. And also regarding Allen, getting Stephon Diggs was a huge boost for him as well.
RE: I'm a big fan of Roman's offense  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15551658 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Does that mean he'll be a good head coach? Who knows. Same could be said for Daboll too, as his offense feels like the opposite Roman's.


Not for nothing, but Roman completely tailored his offensive scheme to fit Lamars playstyle. That's very encouraging.
Better Option  
ChicagoGiant : 1/13/2022 3:05 pm : link
SF Adam Peters and Mike McDaniel - We need a great running game and dynamic players - these two will get us there
Greg  
Toth029 : 1/13/2022 3:08 pm : link
Roman made offenses work with Tyrod Taylor and Kaepernick.

He's an amazing playcaller.
I hate the fact that Buffalo struggles running the ball  
robbieballs2003 : 1/13/2022 3:10 pm : link
.
RE: RE: ?  
Gruber : 1/13/2022 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15551669 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 15551662 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


Brian Daboll is widely attributed to turning Josh Allen from a complete bust to an All Pro QB.



When was Allen ever considered to be a complete bust?


He was nowhere ever near to being a complete or partial bust. He was learning on the job, fortunately for him behind a decent OLine, but that still involved growing pains. I remember his first season and a half or so, occasionally reports coming through that he wasn't so good, he was what was holding back the Bills. The usual stuff that gets said and doesn't add up to much.
Having said that, I'm not sold on Daboll. His record just seems patchy.
RE: RE: I'm a big fan of Roman's offense  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15551672 JohninSC said:
Quote:
In comment 15551658 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Does that mean he'll be a good head coach? Who knows. Same could be said for Daboll too, as his offense feels like the opposite Roman's.



Not for nothing, but Roman completely tailored his offensive scheme to fit Lamars playstyle. That's very encouraging.


Athletic QBs are easy to find; personally I love the idea of Roman implementing his offense here.
both roman and daboll are good candidates  
GiantsFan84 : 1/13/2022 3:21 pm : link
.
RE: Greg  
Mike in NY : 1/13/2022 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15551682 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Roman made offenses work with Tyrod Taylor and Kaepernick.

He's an amazing playcaller.


He also was fired in Buffalo because his offense was horrible when he did not have a mobile QB and he has sputtered in postseason against stronger defenses. Roman can get the most out of QB's who can't throw from the pocket, but that is it. He would look like crap if he had to coach someone like Eli Manning.
RE: RE: RE: I'm a big fan of Roman's offense  
Mike in NY : 1/13/2022 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15551695 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15551672 JohninSC said:


Quote:


In comment 15551658 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Does that mean he'll be a good head coach? Who knows. Same could be said for Daboll too, as his offense feels like the opposite Roman's.



Not for nothing, but Roman completely tailored his offensive scheme to fit Lamars playstyle. That's very encouraging.



Athletic QBs are easy to find; personally I love the idea of Roman implementing his offense here.


If it is so easy, why hasn't every team found an athletic QB that is a NFL starter caliber?
RE: RE: Greg  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 3:28 pm : link
In comment 15551724 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15551682 Toth029 said:


Quote:


Roman made offenses work with Tyrod Taylor and Kaepernick.

He's an amazing playcaller.



He also was fired in Buffalo because his offense was horrible when he did not have a mobile QB and he has sputtered in postseason against stronger defenses. Roman can get the most out of QB's who can't throw from the pocket, but that is it. He would look like crap if he had to coach someone like Eli Manning.


Ah yes. The ever elusive Alex Smith that he coached up to the Super Bowl. Also, he was fired because Rex Ryans defense got blown out by the Jets after week 2. It wasn't the offense.
I'd be happy with a coach named Wink  
DavidinBMNY : 1/13/2022 3:38 pm : link
I'm in. Blitz is back. None of this sit back and read and react crap. Play to win not to lose. If you lose fine , but do it in style.
Josh Allen  
stretch234 : 1/13/2022 3:47 pm : link
He was not ever close to a bust, however he did make a dramatic improvement once they got Stefon Diggs -
RE: RE: RE: Greg  
Mike in NY : 1/13/2022 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15551730 JohninSC said:
Quote:
In comment 15551724 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15551682 Toth029 said:


Quote:


Roman made offenses work with Tyrod Taylor and Kaepernick.

He's an amazing playcaller.



He also was fired in Buffalo because his offense was horrible when he did not have a mobile QB and he has sputtered in postseason against stronger defenses. Roman can get the most out of QB's who can't throw from the pocket, but that is it. He would look like crap if he had to coach someone like Eli Manning.



Ah yes. The ever elusive Alex Smith that he coached up to the Super Bowl. Also, he was fired because Rex Ryans defense got blown out by the Jets after week 2. It wasn't the offense.


Smith never took the Niners to the Super Bowl. His one year in the postseason with them we beat them in Conference Championship where Smith did not complete 1 pass to a WR until very late in the game. Roman went all the way with Kaepernick as his QB.
….  
ryanmkeane : 1/13/2022 3:50 pm : link
That’s my thing with Schoen as well. He’s obviously going to be able to run the operation. But does he have an actual eye for legit talent? Horitz and Peters may be better in that department.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Greg  
JohninSC : 1/13/2022 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15551790 Mike in NY said:
Quote:


Smith never took the Niners to the Super Bowl. His one year in the postseason with them we beat them in Conference Championship where Smith did not complete 1 pass to a WR until very late in the game. Roman went all the way with Kaepernick as his QB.


Correct. But Smith was benched after an injury that year and their record was 7-2-1. Before the injury, Smith was ranked third in the NFL in passer rating (104.1), led the league in completion percentage (70%), and had been 19–5–1 as a starter under Harbaugh, while Kaepernick was considered more dynamic with his scrambling ability and arm strength.
Said this before  
Biteymax22 : 1/13/2022 4:12 pm : link
And will probably repeat it until we hire him and I'm forced to talk myself into liking him, but there's a lot in Daboll's resume left to be desired. He's kind of in the right place right time, but the rest of his career is rather uninspiring. Who knows, maybe he's learned from past mistakes and its better for it, I haven't watched enough Bills games to say.

Give me Horitz and Martindale over Schoen/Daboll.
RE: RE: Greg  
compton : 1/13/2022 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15551724 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15551682 Toth029 said:


Quote:


Roman made offenses work with Tyrod Taylor and Kaepernick.

He's an amazing playcaller.



He also was fired in Buffalo because his offense was horrible when he did not have a mobile QB and he has sputtered in postseason against stronger defenses. Roman can get the most out of QB's who can't throw from the pocket, but that is it. He would look like crap if he had to coach someone like Eli Manning.


Well it's a good thing that the Giants don't have someone like Eli Manning.
I have to agree…  
EliisGod77 : 1/13/2022 4:18 pm : link
Honestly I’m all set with coordinator and head coach chances…Macadoo, Shermer, Judge. Can we please hire a guy whose been successful as a head coach and not some hope that we get the next big thing such a crap shoot. I think Gmen need to think big and hopefully the next GM doesn’t give us some shit recommendation for a head coach. Honestly, the guys that are out there, Daboll, Leftwhich, Bienemy and Roman are all calling plays with all pro great QBs. It’s like the Jets picking Gase as head coach why? Because he coached a hall of fame QB?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm a big fan of Roman's offense  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15551725 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15551695 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15551672 JohninSC said:


Quote:


In comment 15551658 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Does that mean he'll be a good head coach? Who knows. Same could be said for Daboll too, as his offense feels like the opposite Roman's.



Not for nothing, but Roman completely tailored his offensive scheme to fit Lamars playstyle. That's very encouraging.



Athletic QBs are easy to find; personally I love the idea of Roman implementing his offense here.



If it is so easy, why hasn't every team found an athletic QB that is a NFL starter caliber?


Because they don't have Greg Roman to run their offenses.
RE: ….  
Sammo85 : 1/13/2022 4:22 pm : link
In comment 15551793 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
That’s my thing with Schoen as well. He’s obviously going to be able to run the operation. But does he have an actual eye for legit talent? Horitz and Peters may be better in that department.


That's the rub but also a tradeoff. Schoen's had a lot more responsibilities with diverse portfolio of executive and management responsibilities. He's gotten rave reviews for seeing the forest through the trees on things and does have some experience on scouting with Dolphins - he also was kind of used a super-scout by Beane in Buffalo).

Hortiz has kind of just managed a small/tight group and dealing with college scouting (not pro personnel or free agents). Working only for the Ravens also may not be a super-positive (he comes from a good culture, but is he going to be a one way or the highway guy - that's the risk with guys with one tenure).

Peters has a broader/steadier movement across departments in front offices in different places.
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