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Could Daniel Jones have had a worse scenario since drafted?

NJBlueTuna : 1/13/2022 8:24 pm
How many different head coaches and OCs and poor OL can a rookie QB take? Despite your thoughts on his performance or ceiling, this kid has been crushed. And for those truly familiar with his OL and WRs at Duke, the giants OL and talent is like all-pro level.

Just a thought for the masses.
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...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/13/2022 8:25 pm : link
Hasn't Herbert had like 6 different OCs? And some terrible lines?

DJ is a backup QB in this league. From all accounts...good kid/hard worker...but we ain't winning a damn thing with him.
 
christian : 1/13/2022 8:28 pm : link
Unfortunately, often circumstances do have a big part in making the quarterback.
RE: ...  
NJBlueTuna : 1/13/2022 8:32 pm : link
In comment 15552147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Hasn't Herbert had like 6 different OCs? And some terrible lines?


Ummm. No. While he is a promising QB, he has stud WRs and a stud rb.

Can we limit response to informed, factually accurate and intelligent responses please?
To be fair,  
an_idol_mind : 1/13/2022 8:34 pm : link
some of the instability is on Jones' shoulders. It's not like he's been a lone bright star in the offense.
RE: RE: ...  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/13/2022 8:40 pm : link
In comment 15552160 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15552147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Hasn't Herbert had like 6 different OCs? And some terrible lines?




Ummm. No. While he is a promising QB, he has stud WRs and a stud rb.

Can we limit response to informed, factually accurate and intelligent responses please?



The Bengals line is worse than the Giants. They’ve given up 57 sacks. They are absolute garbage.

Jones has the #2 pick at RB and a $72mm WR and a better line.

Just sayin.
If Gettleman said before the 2019 draft…  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/13/2022 8:42 pm : link
“I’m gonna overdraft a QB and then set him up for failure” he could not have done a better job.
Giants did a terrible job  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/13/2022 8:46 pm : link
supporting him. He has not shown enough to continue imv.
For those who think other OL are worse than ours this year  
BillT : 1/13/2022 8:56 pm : link
Consider this. The 2020 Giants OL was bottom 5 at best. Probably worse. The 2021 line was unquestionably downgraded at 4 of the 5 positions compared to the 2020 line. Maybe the worst unit I’ve ever seen in NFL.
I was going to say  
81_Great_Dane : 1/13/2022 8:57 pm : link
"Yes, a career-ending injury that will trouble him into old age would be a worse scenario."

But with this neck injury, that might have happened, too.
If Jones was a better player  
Dave in PA : 1/13/2022 8:59 pm : link
Maybe this scenario wouldn’t be so lousy?
RE: ...  
DonQuixote : 1/13/2022 9:02 pm : link
In comment 15552147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Hasn't Herbert had like 6 different OCs? And some terrible lines?


He's been in the NFL for two years. Name the 6OCs.
RE: If Jones was a better player  
uconn18 : 1/13/2022 9:02 pm : link
In comment 15552201 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Maybe this scenario wouldn’t be so lousy?

Yup, chicken or the egg
I'd say  
myquealer : 1/13/2022 9:07 pm : link
Sean Taylor had a worse scenario.
RE: If Jones was a better player  
BillT : 1/13/2022 9:14 pm : link
In comment 15552201 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Maybe this scenario wouldn’t be so lousy?

Yet, we saw what happened to the offense when he went out.
Two things can be true at the  
Keaton028 : 1/13/2022 9:18 pm : link
Same time. The Giants offense was terrible top to bottom, and with Jones out was unwatchable. Also, Daniel Jones is himself not a great starting QB.
RE: RE: If Jones was a better player  
US1 Giants : 1/13/2022 9:22 pm : link
In comment 15552212 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15552201 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


Maybe this scenario wouldn’t be so lousy?


Yet, we saw what happened to the offense when he went out.


The giants may have had the worst backup QBs ever. That doesn't mean that Jones was good.
RE: RE: RE: If Jones was a better player  
BillT : 1/13/2022 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15552216 US1 Giants said:
Quote:
In comment 15552212 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15552201 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


Maybe this scenario wouldn’t be so lousy?


Yet, we saw what happened to the offense when he went out.



The giants may have had the worst backup QBs ever. That doesn't mean that Jones was good.

That isn’t what hiss stats show from his prior appearances even with the Giants. He’s an average backup.
Keep in mind that Eli  
bluesince56 : 1/13/2022 9:27 pm : link
was left out to dry by this organization. I’m not defending DJ but this inability to perform at the QB level has been going on for a long time.
Could be worse  
David B. : 1/13/2022 9:33 pm : link
No quarterback  
kelly : 1/13/2022 9:35 pm : link
would be successful behind this line with no running game and no talent at wide receiver, or tight end.

Not defending Jones but that is the reality.
Jones got a bad situation  
cjac : 1/13/2022 9:35 pm : link
But it also doesn’t help that he sucks
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Rory : 1/13/2022 9:37 pm : link
In comment 15552174 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
In comment 15552160 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15552147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Hasn't Herbert had like 6 different OCs? And some terrible lines?




Ummm. No. While he is a promising QB, he has stud WRs and a stud rb.

Can we limit response to informed, factually accurate and intelligent responses please?




The Bengals line is worse than the Giants. They’ve given up 57 sacks. They are absolute garbage.

Jones has the #2 pick at RB and a $72mm WR and a better line.

Just sayin.


lol nfw...

he did?! pretty sure Barkley barely played due to injuries.

Bengals offensive line was not worse

72m wr, pretty sure he was out too.
.  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 9:37 pm : link
It's amazing how poorly people assess quarterbacks.
RE: Keep in mind that Eli  
BillT : 1/13/2022 9:39 pm : link
In comment 15552224 bluesince56 said:
Quote:
was left out to dry by this organization. I’m not defending DJ but this inability to perform at the QB level has been going on for a long time.

Couldn’t be more true.
He could've been drafted in the 2nd round  
Jerry in_DC : 1/13/2022 9:54 pm : link
He'd have like $20m fewer dollars and would bave been benched halfway through his 2nd year (think Drew Lock $ and career path)

The Giants falling in love with him is the greatest thing that will ever happen to him professionally. He's set for life and got 3 years of NFL starts to prove himself
RE: RE: RE: ...  
giantstock : 1/13/2022 9:55 pm : link
In comment 15552174 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
In comment 15552160 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15552147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Hasn't Herbert had like 6 different OCs? And some terrible lines?




Ummm. No. While he is a promising QB, he has stud WRs and a stud rb.

Can we limit response to informed, factually accurate and intelligent responses please?




The Bengals line is worse than the Giants. They’ve given up 57 sacks. They are absolute garbage.

Jones has the #2 pick at RB and a $72mm WR and a better line.

Just sayin.


This is such an ignorant irrelevant comment.

Just because you can't understand the difference between where a player is drafted and after watching that player what they actually are, doesn't give you the right to say stupid things.

Sit back and read what others have to say and try to learn something instead of typing nonsense.
Yes - he could have been drafted in the 4th rd  
averagejoe : 1/13/2022 10:07 pm : link
where Duke QB's belong. DJ has made millions . I think the scenario of being a sixth pick has worked out pretty well for him. But not for the Giants .
pocket presence......  
thrunthrublue : 1/13/2022 10:39 pm : link
looking off secondaries........avoiding turnovers......these are elements in his game which cannot improve because......they won't. Billy Barty, no matter how he worked and tried, could never be 6' tall. DJ should take his lottery winnings courtesy of DG and invest wisely, live long, and prosper. The 2022 ny giants will need to find a real starting qb......along with GM and HC.
RE: .  
DonQuixote : 1/13/2022 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15552235 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's amazing how poorly people assess quarterbacks.


Arrogant.
RE: He could've been drafted in the 2nd round  
rsjem1979 : 1/13/2022 11:10 pm : link
In comment 15552253 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
He'd have like $20m fewer dollars and would bave been benched halfway through his 2nd year (think Drew Lock $ and career path)

The Giants falling in love with him is the greatest thing that will ever happen to him professionally. He's set for life and got 3 years of NFL starts to prove himself


If Jones was 2 inches shorter and/or David Cutcliffe never saw him play he'd be one of the most popular finance bros at Princeton alumni events.
RE: RE: .  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 11:17 pm : link
In comment 15552302 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 15552235 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's amazing how poorly people assess quarterbacks.



Arrogant.


Probably, but really take a second to think. Stand back and look at the hoops that people are jumping through to convince themselves this is a good player despite 3 years and 37 pro starts that say otherwise.

If Jones had this identical resume in Detroit, would anyone here be jumping through those hoops? Not a chance.

The thread starter and all arguments in the same vein are, frankly, superfan garbage that wouldn't be taken seriously here if he didn't play for the Giants.

Jones is what he is. There's no butterfly just dying to break free from the cocoon here.
RE: To be fair,  
bluewave : 1/13/2022 11:18 pm : link
In comment 15552163 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
some of the instability is on Jones' shoulders. It's not like he's been a lone bright star in the offense.


Did you watch that last 6 games???? They were shit without him!!!
RE: RE: To be fair,  
Go Terps : 1/13/2022 11:20 pm : link
In comment 15552322 bluewave said:
Quote:
In comment 15552163 an_idol_mind said:


Quote:


some of the instability is on Jones' shoulders. It's not like he's been a lone bright star in the offense.



Did you watch that last 6 games???? They were shit without him!!!


RE: RE: To be fair,  
bw in dc : 1/13/2022 11:28 pm : link
In comment 15552322 bluewave said:
Quote:
In comment 15552163 an_idol_mind said:


Quote:


some of the instability is on Jones' shoulders. It's not like he's been a lone bright star in the offense.



Did you watch that last 6 games???? They were shit without him!!!


With Jones, we averaged 18.4 PPG over his 11 games.

That would be good for 27th in the league.

In other words, with Jones we were still horrible. Just a little less.
How is that different from darnold  
Debaser : 1/13/2022 11:48 pm : link
Or Glennon for that matter who played for like his eight coach in like Eight years.

The panthers like just as bad and the panthers nearly as bad as the giants.

How many are defending darnold and asking to trade for him and defend him?

Lots of QBs were in jones situation ie pkaying for a terrible team. Some have had success playing elsewhere after getting a second chance on another team. By the looks of things that’ll jones soon. No one knows how that ll turn out. Probably bad.
Yes it is a tough situation  
Mike from Ohio : 1/13/2022 11:52 pm : link
made tougher by his own poor play. Herbert and Burrow change systems and play behind bad Olines, and they don’t struggle anywhere near as much as Jones. His receivers would look much better if he didn’t miss them when the6 were open or if he could deliver the ball on time. Unfortunately he isn’t a very good QB.
Jones  
DisgruntledNYGfan : 1/13/2022 11:58 pm : link
is a lower end/marginal starter. Early in the season, he played well against WFT and the Saints. He had nearly all of his weapons against the Bucs and their depleted secondary. He was awful. He did little the rest of the season. Our offense was bottom-tier with him, and unwatchable without him.

Our team offense was the perfect storm of suckiness from FO to HC to OC to QB to OL to injuries at skill positions. Sadly, Jones was probably our best offensive player this year. But that’s damning with faint praise.
There are a few contenders for equals,  
St. Jimmy : 1/14/2022 12:13 am : link
but he really had not shown anything that deserves more time. Should they look to give Saquon the majority of the carries next year?
.......  
Micko : 1/14/2022 12:16 am : link
No QB would be functional behind this offensive line. We truly suck that bad. I have never seen a worse offensive line than this year. DJ is not all pro material but he could be a winner.
RE: He could've been drafted in the 2nd round  
section125 : 1/14/2022 6:05 am : link
In comment 15552253 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
He'd have like $20m fewer dollars and would bave been benched halfway through his 2nd year (think Drew Lock $ and career path)

The Giants falling in love with him is the greatest thing that will ever happen to him professionally. He's set for life and got 3 years of NFL starts to prove himself


Jones would have been gone at #10 to the Broncos or #14 to the Dolphins.
He compares well  
giantBCP : 1/14/2022 7:07 am : link
with our Super Bowl winning QB under similar dumpster fire circumstances. I say that as an Eli fan who didn’t think that he was washed up in the latter stages of his career, but was still a high level player that was playing on a team that wasn’t up to par.
RE: RE: He could've been drafted in the 2nd round  
Producer : 1/14/2022 7:17 am : link
In comment 15552402 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15552253 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


He'd have like $20m fewer dollars and would bave been benched halfway through his 2nd year (think Drew Lock $ and career path)

The Giants falling in love with him is the greatest thing that will ever happen to him professionally. He's set for life and got 3 years of NFL starts to prove himself



Jones would have been gone at #10 to the Broncos or #14 to the Dolphins.


There is not a shred of evidence thus is true. But there are many that did not have a first round grade on him.
I honestly don't think Jones is that good...  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/14/2022 7:25 am : link
But since Debaser thinks he stinks, logic dictates that Jones can't be too bad.
I can think of two QBs that had it worse  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2022 8:20 am : link
this year than DJ.

Davis Mills and David Carr.

Both out performed DJ this year.
Jones has been placed in a terrible spot  
AnnapolisMike : 1/14/2022 8:53 am : link
He played behind a bad OL, had no supporting cast and dealt with crappy coaching.

He played decently when he played this year. We have seen what a train wreck at QB looks like and Jones is better. Jones biggest problem is that he has been injury prone and is missing games. DJ's performance did not directly lead to any losses this year except the Rams game a week after his concussion. Does he elevate those around him? probably not.

Jones will be in training camp if he is healthy. Hopefully with some decent competition to push him. Let the best QB win.
RE: He compares well  
Mike from Ohio : 1/14/2022 9:01 am : link
In comment 15552424 giantBCP said:
Quote:
with our Super Bowl winning QB under similar dumpster fire circumstances. I say that as an Eli fan who didn’t think that he was washed up in the latter stages of his career, but was still a high level player that was playing on a team that wasn’t up to par.


Daniel Jones is to Eli Manning as Oshane Ximines is to Lawrence Taylor.
His poor play and inability to stay on the field has  
Metnut : 1/14/2022 9:24 am : link
played a significant role in the current situation.
RE: Jones has been placed in a terrible spot  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2022 9:30 am : link
In comment 15552514 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
He played behind a bad OL, had no supporting cast and dealt with crappy coaching.

He played decently when he played this year. We have seen what a train wreck at QB looks like and Jones is better. Jones biggest problem is that he has been injury prone and is missing games. DJ's performance did not directly lead to any losses this year except the Rams game a week after his concussion. Does he elevate those around him? probably not.

Jones will be in training camp if he is healthy. Hopefully with some decent competition to push him. Let the best QB win.


I think this is fair.

If the Giants could get anything of value in return for DJ - they should do it...but I doubt they can.
RE: RE: He could've been drafted in the 2nd round  
chick310 : 1/14/2022 9:31 am : link
In comment 15552402 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15552253 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


He'd have like $20m fewer dollars and would bave been benched halfway through his 2nd year (think Drew Lock $ and career path)

The Giants falling in love with him is the greatest thing that will ever happen to him professionally. He's set for life and got 3 years of NFL starts to prove himself



Jones would have been gone at #10 to the Broncos or #14 to the Dolphins.


Not sure how many times this has to be discussed that these teams did not have Jones lined up to be taken before #17. We have had several threads over the past year going through this including reports out of the Denver war room.

Gettleman simply fell for whatever disinformation and rumors that were circling on draft day, panicked and pulled Jones all the way up to #6.

And really what difference does it make anyway at this point? Nobody should be praising the Jones QB evaluation whether he was taken #6, #10, #14, #17 or even 2nd round for that matter. The guy that chose him just lost his job and likely the same fate will fall on Jones.

Was it DG ....  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2022 9:40 am : link
though?

I mean - it totally could have...but is it conceivable that the Mara inner circle have been eyeing this kid as the next Eli for years and were in DG's ear about making sure he didn't slip through their fingers?

idk - but it wouldn't shock me.

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