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Current NYG building blocks for GM candidates to consider...

shocktheworld : 1/13/2022 11:00 pm
Ok, we know we had an all time shitty team in 2021, and while I was sold on the Judge hire, I'm glad to see Timmy Tuffnuts head on down the line...but I respectfully wish him the best. He left with class and I truly hope he finds success as a coach going forward.

With that said, we hopefully will look back on the Getts and Judge era as the end of the old "Giants Way" and cause for the reset we currently are seeing... we can only pray the GM/HC that will be hired can use our 2021 draft and new leadership to catapult NYG back into contention ASAP!

We know were our problems lie (OL!!!) and lack of consistent pass rush still stand out like sore thumbs.

But as I look at our roster, like a potential new GM would, I see quite a few attractive pieces on our team. The overall cupboard is definitely not bare, we just need a forward thinking GM and (IMO)a creative Offensive minded HC (with a strong DC hired too) to come in and use these pieces to be part of the process of getting NYG back on track to compete for division titles.

Offense pieces:

**Andrew Thomas LT -

Andrew has had a very rough start to his career with injuries and bad, sometimes dysfunctional coaching and garbage teammates beside him. Even so, he is the brightest spot on our most glaring of weaknesses... He is a huge building block at the most important OL position, and I'm excited to see him develop into a top shelf LT in this league. Getts got this one right, thankfully, but unfortunately the rest of the line is an unmitigated disaster and was completely botched by Getts et al.

This is the area where the new GM/HC will have the heaviest lifting (rebuilding OL), but it's a huge positive for us to have a young, ascending talent at LT to build from.


**Kadarious Toney WR-

What a strange rookie year for Toney... training camp etc was very troubling as a fan watching our 1st rounder look rather immature and missing time for weird reasons. The mis-fitting shoes, the constant COVID and random injury issues... you got the feeling that he was not acclimating to professional life very well. I'm still not sure what type of man/person he is and I have some real doubts about whether he will be the type of person we need in a solid locker room going forward.

With that said, we saw glimpses early on of the dynamic playmaker Toney is... He has the talent to be a star in the NFL and be a tremendous offensive weapon in the right system. I'll always remember Toney as the package that resulted in us have an additional 5th (last year) and this hugely important 7th overall pick (and the 4th we traded for a crap OL piece last year ugh)

We will hopefully look back on the trade back for Toney/extra 1st etc, as one of the few gifts Getts left us in the 4 year trail of destruction. I haven't given up on Toney, and if they hit on the player @ #7, we will have two valuable young pieces to add to our team for the near future.

**Daniel Jones -

Look, I'll keep it simple here. I hated the pick when it was made and then had some optimism during his rookie year... He is a talented player and a good person/leader. With that said, he hasn't done enough or played enough to pick up his 5th year option. With our cap issue for 2022 and the need to blow up the roster in many ways, this Jones situation has lined up to be beneficial for NYG.

What I mean is, imagine if Jones had a decent to good year in 2021... Many of us would still not be sold, but there's a good chance NYG would've picked up his 5th year and maybe even given him a new deal...Neither of those things will be happening this off-season. Instead (as long as his neck is good), we will get him at a cheap price for 2022 and can let him compete under the new regime/let the new (hopefully Dabol) HC/OC see if they can get him in a system that will play to his strengths.

If not, we can cut bait after this year, and use 2023 to go after one of the many talented QB prospects in that draft. The key for the new GM/HC will be to bring in a backup/potential starter to compete with DJ and be a real option should he miss time with injury. I want DJ to be the QB he has shown in flashes, but he may just never be that....2022 is his final chance to make it happen.


**Saquon Barkley RB

I have to admit that I hope Barkley is traded in the off-season...if they can get a 3rd round pick, I would sign up immediately...first OBJ and now Saquads... I thought both were going to be all time great Giants after their respective rookie years. Man, have I learned two hard lessons. The thing myself and many of us loved about Saquon was how professional he was from day one. He was a genuinely good guy and came in and did everything exactly how you'd like a franchise "face" to carry himself. I still really like the kid, but he's just not going to be the player we were touted by Getts. This was a colossal fuck up by Getts, and I know hindsight is 20/20, but Josh Allen could be our starting QB and Nick Chubb our starting RB... from that draft...but no crying over spilt milk. Saquon may have gained some value with his last couple games, so if we can get a 3rd or even 4th rounder...do it.

I hate to lose the kid, but Booker was a better back this year, and we can easily replace Barkley's production with less costly players. It's sad and sucks to say, but he is not a gold jacket player and we need to let him leave our squad.

**Kenny Golladay WR-

Look... I'm just going to say that Golladay seems like a huge bust to me, because of his attitude and lack of fire on the football field... the last game where he didn't stretch out for the long Fromme pass really pissed me off. He doesn't even seem to care that he put up such a garbage year..I know it had to be frustrating without DJ playing and the inept QB's he had to deal with afterwards, but he is the opposite of a gamer and NOT a leader for sure.

With that said, he wasn't used correctly to maximize his talents. The new staff needs to build the offense for him to be the jump-ball/contested catch/chain mover, with deep ball option, and 1000% red zone usage. He is the corner fade WR you want on the team and can still fill a Plaxico type role in a successful offense. He put up a stinker of a season, but he was part of a tragically mismanaged offensive system...one that will go down as the worst NYG has ever put out there, so let's hope the new leadership can utilize his talents better and get him into a new role of contribution on O.
He has the talent, let's hope he isn't the new Solder albatross around our necks for the future.. He's still young and can be a dominant receiver, if used correctly IMO. There's still a good chance he earns this big contract. We can only pray, haha

Unfortunately this is where the list ends for Offense....Yikes...No wonder we are such garbage...

Defense pieces:

**Leo Williams DT

You have to love this kid's heart...he finished the year out with a painful elbow injury and is the heart of our defense. He is a top 5 DT and in his prime. He is a difference maker and will shine even brighter with a legit pass rush to take the attention off him. Hard worker, good in the locker room and a talented piece on defense. I'm glad he's in Blue.

**Azeez Ojulari EDGE

I guess we have to give Gettleman a little credit for the trade backs he pulled off in his final draft as an NFL GM.

Trading back in the second and STILL grabbing Ojulari was a huge value and we have that extra 3rd rounder this draft still coming. What a great value that trade resulted in. Ojulari was streaky and disappeared for stretches of games, but he definitely is a solution at EDGE. He is only going to get better, and already has the size and speed to be a difference maker. As his technique and comfort level continue to get better, this kid is gonna be a really nice piece in an area we desperately need him. Let's just hope that knee holds up...that's why he dropped to us. Seems like a great kid and the future is bright for him.


**Xavier McKinney FS

Xavier McKinney can be a game changing defender for our defense, and is on his way to becoming a star player in our secondary...the league started taking notice this year, and it's his first full season. Kid is gonna be a great asset for the next coach to utilize. Bright future and an absolute steal when we got him in the draft. Getts with the win here for sure in the 2nd round.

**Blake Martinez LB

I think a reason our Defense took a step back was largely due to Blake being lost for the season. He's no uber athletic marvel back there, but he is a great athlete with an even better brain. We missed his tackling, but also his leadership and the confidence he brought the group. I truly hope Blake bounces right back, because he is still young and is a exactly what this young group needs. We need more Blake Martinez's on this team.


**James Bradberry CB

James also took a step back this year...he was so damn good last year, that his failures this season were magnified more IMO. There is no doubt he didn't play as well this year, but he is still a very capable CB, and a leader in the secondary.
He is a grown up, professional football player, and we need as many of those as possible on this squad. I think we should extend his deal, both to secure his services for the next couple years, but also to get some cap savings for this next season. He;s still gonna be a big part of our solutions going forward.

**Dexter Lawrence DT

Man...This kid is frustrating, but I think he's being played out of position. I still list him as an asset, but there's no way we should pick up his fifth year option, and I would hope a new DC would use him more as a NT that can penetrate...he's been the epitome of "Look like Tarzan, play like Jane" for too many games... but dang it if he doesn't make a special play each game. It shows you what he's capable of, but how to fully unlock that? I hope the coaching change leads to him being more productive. But it doesn't look good for him to be re-signed to NYG at this point, but the talent is 100% there.

**Logan Ryan S

Like James Bradberry, Logan Ryan is a grown up, professional football player. He is a leader of men, and can still be a very good piece on defense. Any new leadership should love the core on Defense of Leo, Blake, James, and Logan. These are great guys, football players, and humans.

You need these pieces as you tear a team down and rebuild with young draft capital. These gents show the new arrivals how to be a professional and attack your craft. Both physically AND mentally. This is a good group on defense, and I think it can quickly become a great unit with the right leadership and additions.

There are a few other good players on Defense:
**Julian Love at safety/CB etc.
(duct tape is his nickname, 'nuff said)

**James Robinson looks like he is the goods at CB after missing quite a bit of the early camps and season, he has the look of a good CB and I feel like next year he could have a similar breakout ala X McKinney.

**Quincy Roche is a DE/EDGE I wanted the Giants to draft, so picking him up for free off the Steelers practice squad was a great move. I think he can be a nice piece moving forward and he def had some bright moments this past year. Glad he's part of our team going into 2022

**Elerson Smith showed his potential in just a few plays, but that potential is very exciting. He needs to continue to work his ass off in the strength and conditioning program, and be a sponge in the meetings/film sessions. He may be a year away from popping, but I think he can be a factor next season if things work out with the new staff's opinion of him.


For special teams, we have an excellent kicker in Gano, but this shitty ass punter Riley needs to get booted ASAP! I can't stand seeing him wreck our field position more often than he improves it. Please be gone...

Look, we obviously have a talent deficiency on our Offense...that's just the cold hard truth. We need help...and alot of it, specifically OLINE based help. After that we can start to put the pieces back together and build forward, but the OL must be a priority or we're going after fool's gold.
The good news is there is great OL talent in this draft and we have 5 premium picks (1st 3 rounds). The new GM has a real chance to fix this problem and have a nice young OL core to grow and build together (including Thomas)

On Defense...we have a solid secondary and some good pieces on the Dline...Blake solidifies the LB'ers (as long as he comes back healthy) but we need another difference maker to play next to him IMO...there are many good choices in this draft, and I have my eye on a handful that can be had in rounds 2 thru 4. And these are damn good players, so I feel hopeful we can get someone like Darrian Beavers from Cincinnati, Damone Clark from LSU, Quay Walker from Georgia...you see what I mean, there are some great choices at many positions in April. Really excited for the draft this year...fresh start, but also a reminder that the NEW YORK GIANTS still mean a great deal in the league and we will get a cream of the crop choice to help get this turned around. I feel hopeful....shit, that's dangerous@ haha

Flame away ladies and gents! GO GIANTS!
Lawrence and Ryan  
David B. : 1/13/2022 11:26 pm : link
Are not difference makers and never will be. But they're not garbage. JAGs.

Too early to really tell about Ojulari, Toney, and McKinney. But they're cheap and worth developing.

I guess you have to keep Golliday for another year given his contract, but he hasn't come close to living up to his contract.

Pretty much in agreement with the rest. Jones is the best bet at QB for at least next year -- as the fix the OL.

Trade Barkley to a team with an OL so he has a chance at a career. Like OBJ, turn one asset in to several. Unfortunately, his stock is quite low right now.


Truly, the only guys who look like long-term building blocks are Thomas and Williams. And Williams just blew out his knee, no?

Not emotionally invested or even mildly interested in ANYONE else on the current roster. That's the problem.
RE: Lawrence and Ryan  
Pepe LePugh : 1/13/2022 11:41 pm : link
In comment 15552329 David B. said:
[quote] Are not difference makers and never will be. But they're not garbage. JAGs.


Truly, the only guys who look like long-term building blocks are Thomas and Williams. And Williams just blew out his knee, no?

Agree with OP and response,
Except what’s this about Williams blowing out a knee???
As far as sure things a couple of years  
Bill in UT : 1/13/2022 11:44 pm : link
down the road, I can't count on anyone beyond Thomas, Williams and McKinney.
...  
BleedBlue : 1/14/2022 12:38 am : link
contrary to BBIs belief...the team does have some talent...

you could easily argue for extending bradberry and martinez. i think martinez can still play and bradberry isnt awful and could be good value.

Mckinney is a VERy good player and clearly a major piece for the defense going forward. I like what ive seen from ojulari. The DL looks pretty solid going forward as well.

I think the defense will be plenty good enough with another edge added early in draft and an offense that can possess the ball for more than 30 seconds.

The offense is where we need the help. at least 2 starters along OL and thats if you count gates and lemiuex both coming back as starters...those are 2 big question marks. Id really like to see 2 drafted earlier and a FA signing here. ideally we go into the season with an OL like this

Thomas-FA-Gates-Draft-Neal?

With peart, lemiuex as two primary subs

Barkley has little to no treade value so keep him and hope with an improved OL and a year removed from injury, he improves.

The WRs I think are better than we give credit. I think KG and toney is a nice pair. could argue for a new #3 but overall those top two guys if they can stay healthy and the OL isnt trash, may actually be solid performers in 22.

TE is definitely a position we will need to draft in mid rounds (good depth in this draft).

overall, we arent a couple pieces away but i dont think we are a complete roster blow up either...we need some players sure but the right GM can really give us a leg up as we have a ton of high draft capital
4-3 defense  
uconngiant : 1/14/2022 12:41 am : link
is what Williams, Johnson, and Lawrence would be better than the 3-4 they played the last two years. I think Williams can plan end and the other two are better tackles not nose.

Why I like Hutchinson and Karlaftis type.
RE: RE: Lawrence and Ryan  
section125 : 1/14/2022 2:44 am : link
In comment 15552339 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
In comment 15552329 David B. said:
[quote] Are not difference makers and never will be. But they're not garbage. JAGs.


Truly, the only guys who look like long-term building blocks are Thomas and Williams. And Williams just blew out his knee, no?

Agree with OP and response,
Except what’s this about Williams blowing out a knee???


LW knee? Close, he hyperextended his elbow...
60% of both lists won't be on the roster in 2 years  
GMen72 : 1/14/2022 3:44 am : link
Peter King was on TV earlier and said the Giants was the worst job of the 7 available. Hard to argue...gonna take 2-3 perfect drafts and a lot of luck to turn this shitshow around.
Peter King is past his prime...the cupboard is not empty  
George from PA : 1/14/2022 5:05 am : link
Now, will it survive new GM/HC....that is another question.

Certainly the 3 young edge rusher have potential....and hopefully Blake comes back and J.Smith is worth keeping at the right price.

L.Williams is hurt? I hope not as he is only special DL. Been waiting on Lawrence but still not seeing a great DT....these can play either 3-4 or 4-3....but we would need DE and LBer if they switch to a 4-3.

McKinney/Love do as well....3/4 solid corners...secondary is in good/great shape.

The defense need another pass rusher and a NT.


the offense needs a ton....but get 4 NFL caliber OL 1st
I'm not so sure anything besides Thomas on Offense  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/14/2022 7:34 am : link
Can be listed as assets or building blocks

There is a greater than zero chance the new GM/HC will want nothing to do with Barkley or Jones who, if we discard their draft position, are not above average in any respect.

Toney can't even be evaluated yet, since he was on the field, healthy, for about 3 games.

I guess the attractive part here could be a clean slate on offense with draft capital to use... so if we hired a strong offensive mind, he could build that side of the ball completely the way he wants
In short here are the building blocks  
armstead98 : 1/14/2022 7:50 am : link
Offense: Thomas, Toney, Lemieux(?)
Defense: McKinney, Ojulari, Love, Robinson(?),

Everyone else will probably be gone before the Giants make another playoff run.

You can question Toney but I think he’ll get it together, he has the talent.

On defense I really liked what I saw from Julian Love, I’d be happy to sign him to a long term deal. Aaron Robinson showed promise too.
Thomas is the only legit foundation piece on the offense  
j_rud : 1/14/2022 7:52 am : link
McKinney and possibly Ojulari on defense. Thats really it.

Williams is a nice player but I doubt he'll be here past the next contract (UFA in 2024) so I don't call that a building block. He's not a 20 mill/yr player either and that's what he'll be getting over the next 2 seasons. I like Williams as a player but that cost is a little crazy for a 3-4 lineman. I don't blame him tho, he really had Gettleman over a barrel.
Thomas is the only building block  
Jerry in_DC : 1/14/2022 7:58 am : link
Couple of other young players who have a chance to be good. But plenty of guys flash in their 1st 2 years and never amount to much.

As noted, there are a few decent vets who can provide competence for a few years.

Most nfl analysts have the Giants listed as the worst (or near the worst) situation for a reason. Bad. Very little young talent. Terrible cap situation.

That's the reality of where we are. It's up to the next guy to make something out of hit. Hopefully the next regime is good. If they are good, they deserve patience, because this is a major project.

There are no shortcuts to having a good team. There is a shortcut to getting to .500 - trading for a top QB. But that doesn't get us to being a good team. It will be a long, long process that is going to require excellent decision making and some luck.
The roster is going to turn over  
JonC : 1/14/2022 9:32 am : link
under the new GM. Players pushing 30 or 30+ will likely be gone, and players like Jones, SB, and Dexter probably won't get their second contract here.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2022 9:37 am : link
not in terms of talent, but guys like Crowder I'd be interested in keeping. He's played well and costs nothing
Logan Ryan is 31, he will not be part of  
Section331 : 1/14/2022 9:38 am : link
a rebuild other than a stopgap until they can get a younger S in his place. I'd put Blake Martinez in that bucket too, even if he is a little younger. He's coming off a knee injury, we don't know how ready he'll be for next year, I could see the new admin deciding to cut ties.

The only guys on O who will be fixtures for the rebuild are AT and maybe Toney. Defensively, it's LW, McKinney and Ojulari, that's it. Some of the other guys - Bradberry, Ryan, Jackson - will likely be here for a couple of years while they restock the cabinet, but I don't think any of them are in the long-term plan.
I like Logan Ryan as a professional...  
bLiTz 2k : 1/14/2022 9:46 am : link
but I aside from a few key plays, his career in NY has been uninspiring to me. He is a liability in coverage, and honestly looks like he's lost a bit of a step..just my uninformed fan observation of course.

I don't think his on field play is worth his salary and absolutely hated extending him when they did.
2022 sadly will not be a playoff year  
greatgrandpa : 1/14/2022 9:46 am : link
Barring career seasons from several players which is a tall order. The team is obviously scraping bottom. It will be 1984 again. Time for young hungry players - lots of them. A complete rebuild. Because of the cap some hard decisions will be made by the new GM and coach. In my opinion Golliday is not worth that horrible contract - period. I watched him loaf on blocks and give up on routes too many times - he carries a sense of entitlement and does not play hard all the time A free agent can play a season and score zero TDs Take the big hit and just cut him. Dixon and Shepard (that one hurts) but as Bill Walsh said - better to jet go a year too soon than a year too late - ‘obviously applies to Engram Slayton Rudolph-h and Carter and nobody could rebuild a great team like Walsh

With his injury Jones is probably still here. With some new schemes Lawrence can be solid but he disappears from the run defense far too often I really like Martinez and he is worth every penny McKinney is great in coverage but I don’t see him tackle well at all. Barkley needs a change of scenery. He still has greatness in him. He gets blamed too much for getting hit just as he tucks the ball. Other than Thomas no one else on the line is above average - he is Mozart playing with a garage band - the Giants absolutely must draft one of the blue chip lineman with one of their first picks the new GM must try to accumulate even more draft picks over the next two seasons with what little resources Gettlemam left him and build only through the draft - with the right people he will find more Seuberts and Gates and Lionel Manuel’s and Andy Headons - Bavaro was 4th round. Bradshaw 6th? These players are out there. The giants have done it before and the right GM can do it again
Keeping Jones  
NJLCO : 1/14/2022 9:50 am : link
Is a mistake, at his best he’s an average QB. We can sign an average veteran QB to get us through 22. Jones will have to learn another offense and I still struggle with his ability to read a defense and make adjustments at the line. I believe Barkley had a good rookie season in part to Eli making adjustments at the line of scrimmage. DJ doesn’t IMO. Let’s move on.
RE: ...  
rsjem1979 : 1/14/2022 9:54 am : link
In comment 15552367 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
contrary to BBIs belief...the team does have some talent...

you could easily argue for extending bradberry and martinez. i think martinez can still play and bradberry isnt awful and could be good value.

The offense is where we need the help. at least 2 starters along OL and thats if you count gates and lemiuex both coming back as starters...those are 2 big question marks. Id really like to see 2 drafted earlier and a FA signing here. ideally we go into the season with an OL like this

Thomas-FA-Gates-Draft-Neal?

With peart, lemiuex as two primary subs


I hate to break it to you, but all indications are that Gates won't be anywhere near ready to play in 2022 - if ever.

Martinez is another question mark because of his injury, and they'd save $8.5 million by cutting him.

As for Bradberry, by the time his contract is up he'll be 30, I don't see any reason to keep him around beyond that - not like he's going to improve with age.
This was an excellent review of where the Giants are now.  
Ivan15 : 1/14/2022 9:56 am : link
We can debate a bit about the present and future of individual players. Too many fans want to put players into categories of future pro bowlers, Jags, or Bums. There are guys who are better than Jags but will never be pro bowlers, but still make a valuable contribution. You keep those guys until you find someone better or they become too expensive for the value they bring.

No problem here with what “Shock” wrote.
As for building blocks  
JonC : 1/14/2022 10:13 am : link
Leo, McKinney, possibly Ojulari unless they switch to a 4-3 base. They've got a few interesting CBs worth developing. DL and LB investments have been very disappointing, and I think at least part of is due to the coaching.

On offense, there's Thomas and that's about it. Thomas has to get his leg(s) healed up. He apparently came into the NFL with an injury and then added to it, which is not ideal and perhaps another scouting miss. Big questions for Jones and SB that they must answer in '22 as I doubt they see second contracts here without big seasons. And, I don't trust Toney as far as I can throw him. Ten cent knucklehead whom many fans are overrating based on some unique joystickability.
JonC  
Dnew15 : 1/14/2022 10:21 am : link
Crazy how many non-2nd contracts the Giants have had recently.

Shepard is the only one that comes to mind in the last 10 years.
RE: 2022 sadly will not be a playoff year  
Angel Eyes : 1/14/2022 10:31 am : link
In comment 15552599 greatgrandpa said:
Quote:
Barring career seasons from several players which is a tall order. The team is obviously scraping bottom. It will be 1984 again. Time for young hungry players - lots of them. A complete rebuild. Because of the cap some hard decisions will be made by the new GM and coach. In my opinion Golliday is not worth that horrible contract - period. I watched him loaf on blocks and give up on routes too many times - he carries a sense of entitlement and does not play hard all the time A free agent can play a season and score zero TDs Take the big hit and just cut him. Dixon and Shepard (that one hurts) but as Bill Walsh said - better to jet go a year too soon than a year too late - ‘obviously applies to Engram Slayton Rudolph-h and Carter and nobody could rebuild a great team like Walsh

With his injury Jones is probably still here. With some new schemes Lawrence can be solid but he disappears from the run defense far too often I really like Martinez and he is worth every penny McKinney is great in coverage but I don’t see him tackle well at all. Barkley needs a change of scenery. He still has greatness in him. He gets blamed too much for getting hit just as he tucks the ball. Other than Thomas no one else on the line is above average - he is Mozart playing with a garage band - the Giants absolutely must draft one of the blue chip lineman with one of their first picks the new GM must try to accumulate even more draft picks over the next two seasons with what little resources Gettlemam left him and build only through the draft - with the right people he will find more Seuberts and Gates and Lionel Manuel’s and Andy Headons - Bavaro was 4th round. Bradshaw 6th? These players are out there. The giants have done it before and the right GM can do it again

Bradshaw was a 7th-round pick.
RE: Keeping Jones  
bLiTz 2k : 1/14/2022 10:32 am : link
In comment 15552602 NJLCO said:
Quote:
Is a mistake, at his best he’s an average QB. We can sign an average veteran QB to get us through 22. Jones will have to learn another offense and I still struggle with his ability to read a defense and make adjustments at the line. I believe Barkley had a good rookie season in part to Eli making adjustments at the line of scrimmage. DJ doesn’t IMO. Let’s move on.


No it's not. 8million for a lottery ticket that he turns out to be a difference maker in a better system, or you let him walk the following year and are right back where you started.

You want to spend 10million+ on a stop gap who is 100% not the long term solution just because you've given up on Jones?

That's asinine
Agree on most accounts....  
Simms11 : 1/14/2022 10:35 am : link
Lawrence has been a disappointment this year. I think Tomlinson playing in the middle, was a huge loss. Olines are having their way with our Dline and opponent running games have been killing us. If we can't stop the run, the D is already on their heels. Have to solidify the middle of the D, to include ILBs and middle of the Oline too. Build the foundation inside out.
The glaring issue is the offense  
Walker Gillette : 1/14/2022 10:43 am : link
Thomas looks good and Toney showed flashes that he can be an elite playmaker, but it was almost a lost season for him and that has to be concerning. I am still intrigued by Jones but he has to stay relatively healthy and take a step forward next year. Plus with Gettleman and Judge gone the mob has it's eyes firmly upon him. After that, I hope Barkley looks al ot more like the old Barkley next year and Golladay scared the hell out of me last year, he was terrible!. After that there is simply nothing. You need 4 new starters on the line, a TE at least one quality receiver, but maybe 3 and they could very well need a starting RB if Saquon is more 21 than 18. That is nearly a total rebuild from scratch.
There's always the possibility of them turning it around  
xman : 1/14/2022 10:56 am : link
quickly
Leslie Frazier  
mittenedman : 1/14/2022 10:57 am : link
Could we see a conversion to the Tampa 2 if Frazier comes with Schoen?

The Giants seem to have some pieces on D:

*Leonard Williams at the Warren Sapp 3-Tech.

*Blake Martinez able to make deep drops from MLB. (At least he could before ACL.)

*Bradberry & Robinson physical CBs who are good in zone.

*Good, interchangeable S's in McKinney & Logan Ryan.

--------------

2 key pieces they'd need:

*The "Simeon Rice" RDE - perhaps Ojabo?

*The Derrick Brooks/Lance Briggs WLB - perhaps Dean?

One thing's for sure - you could do a lot worse than a Frazier Tampa 2.
here's how i see it, though new schemes could dictate some changes  
Eric on Li : 1/14/2022 11:30 am : link
building blocks
1. Thomas
2. McKinney
3. Ojulari

keepers for now but also available via trade if the return is strong enough (would probably need at least a day 2 pick to deal any of them)
4. Barkley
5. Williams
6. Bradberry
7. Lawrence
8. Jackson
9. Martinez
10. Slayton
11. Gano

1st contract guys who need to earn reps/roster spots but worth investing development time
12. Toney
13. Love
14. Robinson
15. Crowder
16. Holmes
17. Roche
18. Coughlin
19. Bredeson
20. Peart
21. Lemiuex
22. Gates
23. E. Smith
24. C. Brown
25. R. Williams

The 2 meaningful players not mentioned are:
26. Jones (unless i love a QB in draft im keeping him, and even then i may do what SF did with Jimmy G/Lance)
27. Golladay (don't think he's movable, have to hope for a healthy bounce back)

That's 10 offensive players, 16 defensive players, 1 K.

24 active roster spots up for grabs on offense + defense.
9 draft picks plus a few UDFAs/waiver claims likely to take half those spots. Maybe a few other guys under contract who will make it to camp like Raymond Johnson / TJ Brunson.

Cutting the players not listed above gets them to $23m in cap space per OTC calculator. Enough to fill the roster and sign draft picks but to make any bigger additions they'd have to move money around (or make a trade).

With $105m cap space projected available in 2023 they do have some flexibility to move money around should they choose to. I personally would do that to sign 1 or 2 starters for the OL.
Blocks  
TyreeHelmet : 1/14/2022 11:41 am : link
Are Thomas, Williams and McKinney. The rest of the team is a giant question mark.
The only block we have is Andrew Thomas  
MartyNJ1969 : 1/14/2022 1:27 pm : link
imo
I appreciate the post  
Mike from SI : 1/14/2022 3:05 pm : link
since it is a nice distraction from all the GM/HC speculation. But I do think you're being too optimistic. I stopped reading at Golladay. He sucks. And for as good as Toney looks by the eye test, his numbers, even when healthy, also suck. The WR cupboard is bare.
I don't think there's a single building block here  
Go Terps : 1/14/2022 3:22 pm : link
Remember 2017. 2 players (Engram and Shepard) remain from that team, and they should have been gone a couple years ago.

This roster is significantly worse than that one.

I expect a similar turnover now. I doubt the 2025 Giants have any of these current players on the roster.
RE: The only block we have is Andrew Thomas  
cosmicj : 1/14/2022 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15553077 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
imo

Agreed

I really want them to trade Toney this offseason. Get something for him while you still can.
I like some of those players on both lists  
Matt M. : 1/14/2022 3:34 pm : link
But, I wouldn't consider most building blocks. For example, at his age and level of play this season, I would not include Ryan. I would, however, include Love. I like the idea of him and McKinney starting for the next few years.

I don't think there is much on the D to build with. Ojulari is one, and to a much lesser degree Roche, with the understanding that he is likely a role player. Martinez was a stud last year, but who knows how he comes back. Williams is the best player on the D, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for a decent return, as his percentage of the cap is high and we are not likely to contend for at least a year or two. I like the rookie CBs, but just about anyone else on D is expendable.

On O, I think Thomas is the only untouchable. I defer to the new GM/HC combo to decide what they deem best in Jones. I think even if he isn't our long term solution, playing out his 4th year may be prudent for us cap wise. Under no circumstances would I pick up the 5th year option.

Nobody else on O is what I would deem a legitimate building block. Even if Barkley rebounds in amazing fashion, I would not offer him a second contract. Toney has talent, but has already proven injury prone. Who else is there to speak of?
This may be an unpopular idea but I think they should talk to  
cosmicj : 1/14/2022 3:37 pm : link
Martinez about extending his deal, which ends after 2022. It may be advantageous to both parties to come to an agreement, with the Giants asking for a pretty low 2023 compensation. Martinez stands to lose a lot of money if we cut him.
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