Nobody wants to admit it but this all started with the Eli/McAdoo fiasco back in 2017. There was a big QB draft coming up, Eli was clearly done, they had to decide decide what to do, McAdoo wanted to evaluate the entire QB system and see who was worth keeping and who could stay on as a back up. People got way too sentimental over keeping the Eli Manning streak going at a point where it didn't matter in the season and the overall health of the team should have been prioritized over the QB. Giants fans chanted for Eli and said "He's our QB" week 17 against the Dolphins despite leading them to a 3-13 year and a bad offense. The Giants backpedaled from bad press and totally overcorrected by claiming they were going all in and building around Eli.
They drafted Barkley and made a bunch of other dumb decisions and ran Barkley into the ground. Later they were forced to admit that Eli was actually done and had been for awhile. But by that point they spent another two years deluding themselves. By the time they were finally ready to accept that they were in a bad QB year and were stuck with Daniel Jones as the best option and they were stuck seeing if he could pan out and missed out on grabbing someone like Herbert the year after. Team building wise they've been stuck trying to correct the mistake of building for a window closing with Eli instead of a more comprehensive rebuild from the trenches up and made splashy desperation moves for guys like Solder that didn't pan out. Coaching wise they have been a bit of mess, not that it really matters because as bad as some of those coaches have been, the team sucks and would lose anyways regardless because of where they were at.
Now it's the 2022 season coming up and Giants have no coach, they aren't very talented, there is a tough decision to make with Barkley, they don't have a legit QB of the future and it's another bad QB draft, their GM is gone so even though he sucked they have zero continuity at all anymore. So now 5 years later they are pretty much at square one and look like one of the worst situations in the league and are will have to start a rebuild that should have started 4 years ago. Instead it would start with little money.
I'd go back even further. Despite having an OL that had aged in dog years, Reese drafts David Wilson with Mitchell Schwartz and Cordy Glenn on the board.
Look at the 2011 Super Bowl. Eli carried that team on his back, the offensive line was on fumes, and the defensive line was aging. We had a massive need to retools the line with the 2012-2014 drafts. That didn't happen.
The Giants have had 10 years of lousy offensive lines, and no real rushers. Imagine if we had drafted Aaron Donald instead of OBJ, and Quenton Nelson (as part of a trade down with the Jets) instead of Barkley. That's the way the FO needed to go, and they didn't.
The problem wasn't Eli, the problem was trying to do a quick fix FOR Eli, instead of a rebuild AROUND Eli! Because we didn't fix the lines after 2011, Eli's prime years were wasted. What Gettelman SHOULD have done was to have Eli as a caretaker QB, and do what he said he was going to do (rebuild the lines).
Even if you replaced Eli in 2017 or 2018, nothing would have worked, because the real problems weren't addressed. The same situation happened this year, when the Giants went on a spending spree to validate Jones. We got offensive weapons instead of keeping the DT we lost, and getting offensive line depth. Failure to fix the lines guaranteed a losing season.
Gettleman's announced plan wasn't wrong, nor was Judge's plan that he gave his first press conference. The problem was that neither followed through. The new GM needs to solve this problem.
+1
Quote:
The problem goes way back to Jerry Reese and the FO. All the way back to 2012.
Look at the 2011 Super Bowl. Eli carried that team on his back, the offensive line was on fumes, and the defensive line was aging. We had a massive need to retools the line with the 2012-2014 drafts. That didn't happen.
The Giants have had 10 years of lousy offensive lines, and no real rushers. Imagine if we had drafted Aaron Donald instead of OBJ, and Quenton Nelson (as part of a trade down with the Jets) instead of Barkley. That's the way the FO needed to go, and they didn't.
The problem wasn't Eli, the problem was trying to do a quick fix FOR Eli, instead of a rebuild AROUND Eli! Because we didn't fix the lines after 2011, Eli's prime years were wasted. What Gettelman SHOULD have done was to have Eli as a caretaker QB, and do what he said he was going to do (rebuild the lines).
Even if you replaced Eli in 2017 or 2018, nothing would have worked, because the real problems weren't addressed. The same situation happened this year, when the Giants went on a spending spree to validate Jones. We got offensive weapons instead of keeping the DT we lost, and getting offensive line depth. Failure to fix the lines guaranteed a losing season.
Gettleman's announced plan wasn't wrong, nor was Judge's plan that he gave his first press conference. The problem was that neither followed through. The new GM needs to solve this problem.
+1
exactly
False
The Giants inability to hit on the OL they have drafted is the single biggest contributor to the downfall of the franchise since 2012, IMO...
The next is inability to continue to draft edge rushers..
The owners, GM, front office, coaching all became warped that they had that special something it took to keep winning Super Bowls. And they didn't, and a whole lot of teams started passing them by in evaluating players, roster building, and how you win in the NFL.
Even when they have seen their issues and mistakes in the the years since, they seem to kind of panic and want to just desperately fix the hole in front of them versus think strategically and make the better decision for the longer term.
The Giants have become near irrelevant.
I really enjoyed that last Super Bowl season though...
Reese was the scapegoat for the embarrassing uproar, but honestly deserved to go at the same time as Coughlin beause he failed to restock the OL and general talent after the SB. McAdoo was fired, above all else, for being a douchebag.
I also don't think it was a fundamental problem to try to build with Eli. I think the problem was making that decision but never fixing the OL. The last few seasons, including his 2 years with McAdoo as OC, he played behind some of the worst OLs not just in the league, but in my experience of 40 years as a fan of the game. The one constant throught the last decade has been TERRIBLE, like historically bad, OL play.
The ame timeline coincides with thinking drafting Barkley would salvage Eli's last run. But, again, they did so without an OL to speak of. And, if it's at all possible, the OL is worse now than 4 years ago, even if all healthy.
So, yes, I think the problems in this organization pre-date Gettleman and Judge. But, I think they also pre-date McAdoo. Now, none of our HC selections post-Coughlin did much to improve things. But, they are not sole culprits.
When they got up 23-0 on Dallas and only won because Dez Bryant's hand landed out of bounds in the endzone my concern started.
It really became obvious when they played Cincinnati in Week 11 and Eli was under siege all game and Andy Dalton torched the Giants defense and they lost 31-13
But who cares I guess.
Look at the 2011 Super Bowl. Eli carried that team on his back, the offensive line was on fumes, and the defensive line was aging. We had a massive need to retools the line with the 2012-2014 drafts. That didn't happen.
The Giants have had 10 years of lousy offensive lines, and no real rushers. Imagine if we had drafted Aaron Donald instead of OBJ, and Quenton Nelson (as part of a trade down with the Jets) instead of Barkley. That's the way the FO needed to go, and they didn't.
The problem wasn't Eli, the problem was trying to do a quick fix FOR Eli, instead of a rebuild AROUND Eli! Because we didn't fix the lines after 2011, Eli's prime years were wasted. What Gettelman SHOULD have done was to have Eli as a caretaker QB, and do what he said he was going to do (rebuild the lines).
Even if you replaced Eli in 2017 or 2018, nothing would have worked, because the real problems weren't addressed. The same situation happened this year, when the Giants went on a spending spree to validate Jones. We got offensive weapons instead of keeping the DT we lost, and getting offensive line depth. Failure to fix the lines guaranteed a losing season.
Gettleman's announced plan wasn't wrong, nor was Judge's plan that he gave his first press conference. The problem was that neither followed through. The new GM needs to solve this problem.
Yes
our line needed serious rebuilding in 2012 and we never put the right investments into it.
3rd - 7th 2012-2017: mccant mosely herman hart bisnowaty
1st and 2nd 2012-2017: westburg pugh flowers
teams swing and miss all the time but WTF. we obviously don't know how to scout OL. not 1 2nd contract to either of these guys.
Next I also blame the fans who freaked out over Eli's benching and the stupid meaningless streak. The over reaction and backlash freaked out John Mara. He actually said "we did not think the fans would be so emotional". So, this shaped some of the decisions for the next two years.
If John Mara was a better leader, he would have made the right decision. Moving on from Eli was the right move but they went about it the wrong way.
Finally, hiring Gettleman was the nail in the coffin.
Did anyone want to see why we had in Glennon after week 3 of no TDs from Jones or few TD? Did anyone want to see jones benched even after he got his bell rung in the cowboys game? Instead he cleared protocol on day before, but when it comes to benching Eli macado was seen as as this awesome thing to play a Jets retread.
But, it is bigger than Eli. The problem really started when the decision was made by ownership to let go of Coughlin and keep Eli. They should have let Eli go then as well. Not because he was done, but to not force a QB on a coach and a general manager who didn't really want Eli. The other option (a better option in my opinion) would have been to let Reese go.
Reese was the scapegoat for the embarrassing uproar, but honestly deserved to go at the same time as Coughlin beause he failed to restock the OL and general talent after the SB. McAdoo was fired, above all else, for being a douchebag.
I also don't think it was a fundamental problem to try to build with Eli. I think the problem was making that decision but never fixing the OL. The last few seasons, including his 2 years with McAdoo as OC, he played behind some of the worst OLs not just in the league, but in my experience of 40 years as a fan of the game. The one constant throught the last decade has been TERRIBLE, like historically bad, OL play.
The ame timeline coincides with thinking drafting Barkley would salvage Eli's last run. But, again, they did so without an OL to speak of. And, if it's at all possible, the OL is worse now than 4 years ago, even if all healthy.
So, yes, I think the problems in this organization pre-date Gettleman and Judge. But, I think they also pre-date McAdoo. Now, none of our HC selections post-Coughlin did much to improve things. But, they are not sole culprits.
This, along with the previous posts with a similar train of thought.