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Could Kayvon Thibodeaux play OLB in a 3-4 defense?

GFAN52 : 1/14/2022 11:46 am
He seems light to play as an every down DE.
Yes, he can  
JonC : 1/14/2022 11:48 am : link
think of how Von Miller and Demarcus Ware are/were deployed. It's mostly an end of the line position, there's not much playing in space or moving backwards.

He would not be a 3-4 DE, that's more or less a DT, Leo being a classic example.
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2022 11:51 am : link
any personality stuff to be concerned about with Thib?
Not heard anything but it's early  
JonC : 1/14/2022 11:54 am : link
I suspect he needs to work on not taking some plays off, so there could be some questions to answer there. The talent is obvious as he leaps off the screen when he's got it going.
RE: Yes, he can  
GFAN52 : 1/14/2022 11:56 am : link
In comment 15552843 JonC said:
Quote:
think of how Von Miller and Demarcus Ware are/were deployed. It's mostly an end of the line position, there's not much playing in space or moving backwards.

He would not be a 3-4 DE, that's more or less a DT, Leo being a classic example.


Thanks Jon. I ask because if he was there at #5 would the Giants grab him to play an edge rusher.
I think they would run to the podium  
JonC : 1/14/2022 11:57 am : link
imo
He can play standing up  
tyrik13 : 1/14/2022 12:17 pm : link
And hand in the dirt. Kid is great abs if he’s there at 5 we should be running to the podium
RE: I think they would run to the podium  
bw in dc : 1/14/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15552871 JonC said:
Quote:
imo


Ugh. Very talented, but KT disappears too much for my tastes. And he always seems to have some lingering injury.

I think that makes him a riskier pick.
Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
BLUATHRT : 1/14/2022 12:23 pm : link
in college. The reality is they were so good they didn't have to work as hard to perform out of pure talent. They quickly realized this and adjusted in the NFL. I suspect Thibodeaux would have a similar awakening.
if you want him to be who we see he is .....  
BCD : 1/14/2022 12:23 pm : link
play him were he played in college don't change him up...what you see is what you get....quote Flip Wilson
RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
JonC : 1/14/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15552927 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
in college. The reality is they were so good they didn't have to work as hard to perform out of pure talent. They quickly realized this and adjusted in the NFL. I suspect Thibodeaux would have a similar awakening.


Yep, the same was mentioned regarding Parsons as well, and look at him now. It's something they'll need to flesh out during interviews. Thibs reminds me of Parsons but he's more of a pure edge prospect.
That's probably the ideal position for him...  
90.Cal : 1/14/2022 12:27 pm : link
I think he'd be better off as a 3-4 OLB as opposed to a 4-3 DE. Same applies to Ojabo. Guys like Hutchinson and Karlaftis are better suited as 4-3 DE's IMO.
RE: RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
BLUATHRT : 1/14/2022 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15552938 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15552927 BLUATHRT said:


Quote:


in college. The reality is they were so good they didn't have to work as hard to perform out of pure talent. They quickly realized this and adjusted in the NFL. I suspect Thibodeaux would have a similar awakening.



Yep, the same was mentioned regarding Parsons as well, and look at him now. It's something they'll need to flesh out during interviews. Thibs reminds me of Parsons but he's more of a pure edge prospect.


Agreed...
RE: RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
GiantsFan84 : 1/14/2022 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15552938 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15552927 BLUATHRT said:


Quote:


in college. The reality is they were so good they didn't have to work as hard to perform out of pure talent. They quickly realized this and adjusted in the NFL. I suspect Thibodeaux would have a similar awakening.



Yep, the same was mentioned regarding Parsons as well, and look at him now. It's something they'll need to flesh out during interviews. Thibs reminds me of Parsons but he's more of a pure edge prospect.


i don't think thibs is 75% of the athlete that parsons is
Von Miller  
Giants73 : 1/14/2022 1:34 pm : link
Played at a different speed in college, no one in this draft plays that fast.
RE: RE: RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
bw in dc : 1/14/2022 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15553016 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
In comment 15552938 JonC said:


i don't think thibs is 75% of the athlete that parsons is


Totally agree. I know Parsons loves football and is relentless about it.

I'm not sure KT is that way.
RE: RE: I think they would run to the podium  
Joe Beckwith : 1/14/2022 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15552921 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15552871 JonC said:


Quote:


imo



Ugh. Very talented, but KT disappears too much for my tastes. And he always seems to have some lingering injury.

I think that makes him a riskier pick.

+1.
If he feels no juice now, why would he NOT make business decisions.
The more that this lack of intensity comes out , the more he turns me off.
But that’ll be up to the FO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
BLUATHRT : 1/14/2022 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15553090 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15553016 GiantsFan84 said:


Quote:


In comment 15552938 JonC said:


i don't think thibs is 75% of the athlete that parsons is



Totally agree. I know Parsons loves football and is relentless about it.

I'm not sure KT is that way.


Question on what gives you this impression? Parsons took a year off during Covid to prep for the draft. What has Thibodeaux done that would indicate he doesn't love football?
Yes  
jeff57 : 1/14/2022 1:50 pm : link
.
I don't say yes automatically.  
Matt M. : 1/14/2022 2:34 pm : link
A lot fo very good 4-3 DEs try to play OLB and don't have the same impact, even if they don't outright fail.
RE: I don't say yes automatically.  
Matt M. : 1/14/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15553177 Matt M. said:
Quote:
A lot fo very good 4-3 DEs try to play OLB and don't have the same impact, even if they don't outright fail.
That said, I would love to have him on my team. We don't even know at this point in time what type of D we will be running next year, but he is a true impact player, which is what we have been lacking on D for some time.
unless there is serious red flags  
Payasdaddy : 1/14/2022 2:43 pm : link
have to grab that talent at 5
at 7? yeah have to consider a small trade down unless u absolutely love linderbaum that early
but if we walk away with KT and TL in first , u have to be happy two needs filled that are also maybe the two BPA at their position
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
bw in dc : 1/14/2022 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15553115 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 15553090 bw in dc said:


Totally agree. I know Parsons loves football and is relentless about it.

I'm not sure KT is that way.



Question on what gives you this impression? Parsons took a year off during Covid to prep for the draft. What has Thibodeaux done that would indicate he doesn't love football?


Well, the B1G canceled their 2020 season in August due to Covid. By the time they resumed in late October on a super limited schedule, it really didn't make sense for Parsons to return. Too risky and too much money at stake. PSU wasn't going to the FCS, and what's the point of going to an exhibition bowl game.

Parsons also had a newborn - I believe - and was concerned about his health. Which has merit.

It might be unfair for me to say that about KT, but it bothered me why he chose Oregon over Alabama. Seemed more interested in being part of the Nike brand than competing for the SEC and championships.



RE: That's probably the ideal position for him...  
Milton : 1/14/2022 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15552940 90.Cal said:
Quote:
I think he'd be better off as a 3-4 OLB as opposed to a 4-3 DE. Same applies to Ojabo. Guys like Hutchinson and Karlaftis are better suited as 4-3 DE's IMO.
I disagree. Just going by size, speed, length, and athletic ability, I think Thib is well suited for either OLB or DE. He won't be used in coverage all that often, but that's no reason for a 3-4 team to downgrade him, and he has plenty enough size to play DE on the weak side. Karlaftis is probably best suited to play strong side DE. As for Ojabo, I see him as best suited for weak side DE (a touch light to play on the strong side). I wouldn't shy away from him if I played the 3-4, but that whole Nigerian from England thing has me envisioning him as another Osi (and Osi was strictly a 4-3 weak side pass rusher).
RE: RE: That's probably the ideal position for him...  
Payasdaddy : 1/14/2022 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15553252 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15552940 90.Cal said:


Quote:


I think he'd be better off as a 3-4 OLB as opposed to a 4-3 DE. Same applies to Ojabo. Guys like Hutchinson and Karlaftis are better suited as 4-3 DE's IMO.

I disagree. Just going by size, speed, length, and athletic ability, I think Thib is well suited for either OLB or DE. He won't be used in coverage all that often, but that's no reason for a 3-4 team to downgrade him, and he has plenty enough size to play DE on the weak side. Karlaftis is probably best suited to play strong side DE. As for Ojabo, I see him as best suited for weak side DE (a touch light to play on the strong side). I wouldn't shy away from him if I played the 3-4, but that whole Nigerian from England thing has me envisioning him as another Osi (and Osi was strictly a 4-3 weak side pass rusher).


yeah I get the OSI vibe too OSI 1st yr was developmental yr 2 he took off ( vs walter jones ATG)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Von Miller and Myles Garrett both had concerns with taking plays off  
MyNameIsMyName : 1/14/2022 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15553221 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15553115 BLUATHRT said:


Quote:


In comment 15553090 bw in dc said:


Totally agree. I know Parsons loves football and is relentless about it.

I'm not sure KT is that way.



Question on what gives you this impression? Parsons took a year off during Covid to prep for the draft. What has Thibodeaux done that would indicate he doesn't love football?



Well, the B1G canceled their 2020 season in August due to Covid. By the time they resumed in late October on a super limited schedule, it really didn't make sense for Parsons to return. Too risky and too much money at stake. PSU wasn't going to the FCS, and what's the point of going to an exhibition bowl game.

Parsons also had a newborn - I believe - and was concerned about his health. Which has merit.

It might be unfair for me to say that about KT, but it bothered me why he chose Oregon over Alabama. Seemed more interested in being part of the Nike brand than competing for the SEC and championships.




Micah moved to California to train for the combine after the Big Ten cancelled the season, if they didn’t do that he would’ve played. Yea, he has a kid, and another on the way
RE: Yes, he can  
shocktheworld : 1/14/2022 3:42 pm : link
In comment 15552843 JonC said:
Quote:
think of how Von Miller and Demarcus Ware are/were deployed. It's mostly an end of the line position, there's not much playing in space or moving backwards.

He would not be a 3-4 DE, that's more or less a DT, Leo being a classic example.


Jon, can I ask you about a player coming out from Oklahom? Not sure if you’re familiar…Nik Bonnitto EDGE… he reminds me of Micah Parsons in size and athletic tools. Have you scouted him or watched any OU games? I’m very intrigued by this kid… I think he can be had in Round 2 maybe even 3….you have any thoughts? Thx in advance
 
shocktheworld : 1/14/2022 3:43 pm : link
**Bonitto
Good question posed by the OP  
The_Boss : 1/14/2022 4:07 pm : link
But what if the new regime wants to deploy a more standard 4-3 defense?

On the flip side, if we hire Hortiz from Baltimore, he's probably better versed in selecting LB's than all the guys we've had here over the last 20 years.
shock  
JonC : 1/14/2022 4:15 pm : link
I haven't seen much of him yet, but will take a look. I know bw loves him along with the PSU kid (Ebetkie?). The Giants loved Kenneth Murray but he's a different type of LB.
Drake Jackson of USC  
JonC : 1/14/2022 4:21 pm : link
is a prospect I've been monitoring, and hoped he would've had a bigger year. But, he's got a lot of tools and is a big, twitchy athletic presence.

Also looking at Sanders from Cinci, Johnson from FSU, and of course Ojabo. If I'm NYG, I'm picking a prospect from this bunch in round 1 or 2. Hell, I like them better than Ojulari.

RE: Drake Jackson of USC  
ColHowPepper : 1/14/2022 5:12 pm : link
In comment 15553337 JonC said:
Quote:
...Also looking at Sanders from Cinci, Johnson from FSU, and of course Ojabo. If I'm NYG, I'm picking a prospect from this bunch in round 1 or 2. Hell, I like them better than Ojulari.
What bothers me about Ojulari--and the analog is his Georgia predecessor--is that he's not stout, he's athletic but light, not impactful/powerful down after down. Whether the lightbulb has suddenly turned on for LC or he's in a contract defining year, I don't know, nor do I know whether Ojulari is at this point defined more by being in 'learning mode'. Ojulari just does not strike me as game impactful in his own right...unlike Parsons, e.g.
CHP  
JonC : 1/14/2022 5:16 pm : link
Agreed, I posted about it often when Ojulari was drafted. The Patriot OLB is technical, smart, but often undersized, not twitchy, and really their job is contain and be a decent pressure creator, rather than disrupt the game in an impactful way. The UGA OLBs fit the bill, but I'm personally not looking to build a bend but don't break scheme out there. So it still knocks the UFA backers down for me (Dean included).
RE: Drake Jackson of USC  
Angel Eyes : 1/14/2022 5:22 pm : link
In comment 15553337 JonC said:
Quote:
is a prospect I've been monitoring, and hoped he would've had a bigger year. But, he's got a lot of tools and is a big, twitchy athletic presence.

Also looking at Sanders from Cinci, Johnson from FSU, and of course Ojabo. If I'm NYG, I'm picking a prospect from this bunch in round 1 or 2. Hell, I like them better than Ojulari.

I haven't watched Jackson much, but what I've been reading on him is that the reason he didn't have a great year on paper is because USC moved him around a lot, limiting his pass-rush opportunities. The main knock in the readings is that he needs to work on his tackling.
RE: CHP  
ColHowPepper : 1/14/2022 5:51 pm : link
In comment 15553390 JonC said:
Quote:
...So it still knocks the [UGA] backers down for me (Dean included).
Yeah, it's so hard to project a player jumping from collegiate, even a top program, to the NFL. So, Dean 'looks' like a force against even ALA, but it takes a really talented observer of the game to know if that will work next level. Sy' seems pretty good! lol

But there is a 'body of work' here on BBI: e.g., Kwitty Paye, whom Sy' liked, and who I think he and many of us may have project the Giants to select in the Bears' slot (think he went right after at 21). In college he looked solid, and looked like he could set an edge--and he seems to be able--but the reservations here were whether he'd be disruptive in the way we're talking about. So far, maybe not; but he's solid.
RE: shock  
bw in dc : 1/14/2022 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15553329 JonC said:
Quote:
I haven't seen much of him yet, but will take a look. I know bw loves him along with the PSU kid (Ebetkie?). The Giants loved Kenneth Murray but he's a different type of LB.


I know these are highlights but take a look at some of Ebiketie's work in '21.
Ebiketie - Edge - ( New Window )
I don’t think there’s any way  
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2022 9:32 pm : link
the Jets would pass on him if he got to 4
RE: Von Miller  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/15/2022 1:20 pm : link
In comment 15553088 Giants73 said:
Quote:
Played at a different speed in college, no one in this draft plays that fast.

That feels like a nostalgia bias.

There are a lot of prospects in this draft with nonstop motors.
RE: RE: CHP  
JonC : 1/15/2022 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15553416 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 15553390 JonC said:


Quote:


...So it still knocks the [UGA] backers down for me (Dean included).

Yeah, it's so hard to project a player jumping from collegiate, even a top program, to the NFL. So, Dean 'looks' like a force against even ALA, but it takes a really talented observer of the game to know if that will work next level. Sy' seems pretty good! lol

But there is a 'body of work' here on BBI: e.g., Kwitty Paye, whom Sy' liked, and who I think he and many of us may have project the Giants to select in the Bears' slot (think he went right after at 21). In college he looked solid, and looked like he could set an edge--and he seems to be able--but the reservations here were whether he'd be disruptive in the way we're talking about. So far, maybe not; but he's solid.


I said it in April, Giants should've picked Parsons. The trade down was a good idea but I hate the Toney pick, they were once again making erroneous decisions thinking they could win. In summary, they got too cute imo and the QB options at 5/7 aren't great.
RE: RE: Von Miller  
Giants73 : 1/15/2022 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15554029 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15553088 Giants73 said:


Quote:


Played at a different speed in college, no one in this draft plays that fast.


That feels like a nostalgia bias.

There are a lot of prospects in this draft with nonstop motors.

Not saying a non-stop motor, Might be bias, but Miller was too quick for anyone to handle his jr year, his senior year I don’t think he ever saw one player try and block him solo. KT was getting shutdown by TEs in a few of the games I saw this year.
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